Re: VCS comparison table

From: Andreas Ericsson <ae@op5.se>
Date: Oct 18, 2006, 08:39 UTC
Message-ID: <4535E844.8010604@op5.se>
In-Reply-To: <45359B2A.1070102@utoronto.ca>

Aaron Bentley wrote:

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> Carl Worth wrote:
>> Aaron, thanks for carrying this thread along and helping to bridge
>> some communication gaps. For example, when I saw your original two two
>> diagrams I was totally mystified how you were claiming that appending
>> a couple of nodes and edges to a DAG could change the "order" of the
>> DAG.
>>
>> I think I understand what you're describing with the leftmost-parent
>> ordering now. But it's definitely an ordering that I would describe as
>> local-only. That is, the ordering has meaning only with respect to a
>> particular linearization of the DAG and that linearization is
>> different from one repository to the next.
> 
> Well, the linarization for any particular head is well-defined, but
> since different branches have different heads...
> 
>> If in practice, nobody does the mirroring "pull" operation then how
>> are the numbers useful? For example, given your examples above, if
>> I'm understanding the concepts and terminology correctly, then if A
>> and B both "merge" from each other (and don't "pull") then they will
>> each end up with identical DAGs for the revision history but totally
>> distinct numbers. Correct?
> 
> The DAGs will be different.  If A merges B, we get:
> 
> a
> |
> b
> |\
> c d
> |\|
> | e
> |/
> f
> 
> If B merges A before this, nothing happens, because B is already a
> superset of A.
> 
> If B merges afterward, we get this:
> a
> |
> b
> |\
> d c
> |/|
> e |
> |\|
> | f
> |/
> g
>

Seems like an awful lot of merge commits. In git, I think these trees would be identical (actually both to bazaar and to each other), with the exception that the 'g' commit wouldn't exist, since git does fast-forward and relies on dependency-chain only to present the graph instead of mucking around with info in external files (recording of fetches).

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>> So in that situation the numbers will not help A and B determine that
>> they have identical history or even identical working trees.
> 
> They don't really have identical history.
>

As explained above, they would be identical in git. The fact that you register a fast-forward as a merge makes them not so, but this is something most gitizens are against, as it can quickly clutter up the DAG.

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>> So what good are the numbers?
> 
> They are good for naming mainline revisions that introduced particular
> changes.
> 
>> I can see that the numbers would have applicability with reference to
>> a single repository, (or equivalently a mirror of that repository),
>> but no utility as soon as there is any distributed development
>> happening.
> 
> Well, there's distributed, and then there's *DISTRIBUTED*.  We don't
> quasi-randomly merge each others' branches.  We have a star topology
> around bzr.dev.  So when we refer to revnos, they're usually in bzr.dev.
>

So in essence, the revnos work wonderfully so long as there is a central server to make them immutable?

Doesn't this mean that one of your key features doesn't actually work in a completely distributed setup (i.e., each dev has his own repo, there is no mother-ship, everyone pulls from each other)?

I can see the six-line hook that lays the groundwork for this in git before me right now. I'll happily refuse to write it down anywhere. I get the feeling that sha's are easier to handle in the long run, while revno's might be good to use in development work. In git, we have <branch/tag/"committish">~<number> syntax for this.

In my experience, finding the revision sha of an old bug is what takes time. Copy-paste is just as fast with 20 bytes as with 4 bytes. Honestly now, do you actually remember the revno for a bug that you stopped working on three weeks ago, or do you have to go look it up? If someone wants to notify you about the revision a bug was introduced, do they not communicate the revno to you by email/irc/somesuch?

-- 
Andreas Ericsson                   andreas.ericsson@op5.se
OP5 AB                             www.op5.se
Tel: +46 8-230225                  Fax: +46 8-230231