Re: Lack of netiquette, was Re: [PATCH v4 00/13] New remote-hg helper

From: Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>
Date: Nov 2, 2012, 16:09 UTC
Message-ID: <CAMP44s0yk3k1awYbJCcReBDEAjMyfHtKH70S7v2ZOJ1u5OcBAw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <5093A873.9090701@drmicha.warpmail.net>

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Michael J Gruber <git@drmicha.warpmail.net> wrote:

Show 34 quoted lines

> Andreas Ericsson venit, vidit, dixit 02.11.2012 10:38:
>> On 11/01/2012 02:46 PM, René Scharfe wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, and I'm sure you didn't know that, "Jedem das Seine" (to each
>>> his own) was the slogan of the Buchenwald concentration camp.  For
>>> that reason some (including me) hear the unspoken cynical
>>> half-sentence "and some people just have to be sent to the gas
>>> chamber" when someone uses this proverb.
>>>
>>
>> It goes further back than that.
>>
>> "Suum cuique pulchrum est" ("To each his own is a beautiful thing") is
>> a latin phrase said to be used frequently in the roman senate when
>> senators politely agreed to disagree and let a vote decide the outcome
>> rather than debating further.
>>
>> Please don't let the twisted views of whatever nazi idiot thought it
>> meant "you may have the wrong faith and therefore deserve to die, so you
>> shall" pollute it. The original meaning is both poetic and democratic,
>> and I firmly believe most people have the original meaning to the fore
>> of their mind when using it. After all, very few people knowingly quote
>> nazi concentration camp slogans.
>>
>
> In fact, many German terms and words are "forbidden area" since Nazi
> times, but I don't think this one carries the same connotation.
>
> But that is a side track.
>
> Collaboration (and code review is a form of collaboration) requires
> communication. The linked code of conduct pages describe quite well how
> to ensure a productive environment in which "everyone" feels comfortable
> communicating and collaborating.

Yes, but that's assuming we want "everyone" to feel comfortable communicating and collaborating. I cite again the example of the Linux kernel, where certainly not "everyone" feels that way. But somehow they manage to be perhaps the most successful software project in history. And I would argue even more: it's _because_ not everyone feels comfortable, it's because ideas and code are criticized freely, and because only the ones that do have merit stand. If you are able to take criticism, and you are not emotionally and personally attacked to your code and your ideas, you would thrive in this environment. If you don't want your precious little baby code to fight against the big guys, then you shouldn't send it out to the world.

Junio mentioned "technical merit", and I believe for that open and _honest_ communication is more important than making "everyone" feel comfortable.

And FWIW I don't feel comfortable expressing my opinion any more, because even if I criticize ideas and code on a *technical* basis, I'm assumed to be referencing Nazism and whatnot without any regards of what my original intentions were, or what I actually said, and definitely not assuming good faith. And when asked for clarification of what exactly that I said was offensive, I get no clear answer.

The dangers of "everyone" following the same style of communication, and making "everyone" feel comfortable, is that "everyone" ends up being the same kind of people, and the ones that don't fit the definition of "everyone" feel like outsiders, or outright leave the project. And you end up with an homogeneous group of people incapable of criticizing each other honestly (on a technical basis), whether it's because of lack of a different perspective, or unwillingness to speak openly, or difficulty in finding the right polite words. I've seen many projects fall into this, and erode with time, since nothing important actually happens, and real deep issues within the code or the community get ignored.

Anyway, I've yet to find what was actually wrong in the words I said.

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras