Re: Lack of netiquette, was Re: [PATCH v4 00/13] New remote-hg helper

From: Michael J Gruber <git@drmicha.warpmail.net>
Date: Nov 5, 2012, 09:25 UTC
Message-ID: <5097860E.5040607@drmicha.warpmail.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAMP44s0yk3k1awYbJCcReBDEAjMyfHtKH70S7v2ZOJ1u5OcBAw@mail.gmail.com>

Felipe Contreras venit, vidit, dixit 02.11.2012 17:09:

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> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Michael J Gruber
> <git@drmicha.warpmail.net> wrote:
>> Andreas Ericsson venit, vidit, dixit 02.11.2012 10:38:
>>> On 11/01/2012 02:46 PM, René Scharfe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also, and I'm sure you didn't know that, "Jedem das Seine" (to each
>>>> his own) was the slogan of the Buchenwald concentration camp.  For
>>>> that reason some (including me) hear the unspoken cynical
>>>> half-sentence "and some people just have to be sent to the gas
>>>> chamber" when someone uses this proverb.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It goes further back than that.
>>>
>>> "Suum cuique pulchrum est" ("To each his own is a beautiful thing") is
>>> a latin phrase said to be used frequently in the roman senate when
>>> senators politely agreed to disagree and let a vote decide the outcome
>>> rather than debating further.
>>>
>>> Please don't let the twisted views of whatever nazi idiot thought it
>>> meant "you may have the wrong faith and therefore deserve to die, so you
>>> shall" pollute it. The original meaning is both poetic and democratic,
>>> and I firmly believe most people have the original meaning to the fore
>>> of their mind when using it. After all, very few people knowingly quote
>>> nazi concentration camp slogans.
>>>
>>
>> In fact, many German terms and words are "forbidden area" since Nazi
>> times, but I don't think this one carries the same connotation.
>>
>> But that is a side track.
>>
>> Collaboration (and code review is a form of collaboration) requires
>> communication. The linked code of conduct pages describe quite well how
>> to ensure a productive environment in which "everyone" feels comfortable
>> communicating and collaborating.
> 
> Yes, but that's assuming we want "everyone" to feel comfortable
> communicating and collaborating.

I put "everyone" in quotes because you can never reach 100%, so "everyone" means almost everyone.

Undeniably, the answers in this and the other threads show that on the git mailing list, "everyone" wants "everyone" to feel comfortable communicating and collaborating.

> I cite again the example of the Linux
> kernel, where certainly not "everyone" feels that way. But somehow

It's a different list with different standards and tone, so it doesn't really matter for our list. That being said:

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> they manage to be perhaps the most successful software project in
> history. And I would argue even more: it's _because_ not everyone
> feels comfortable, it's because ideas and code are criticized freely,
> and because only the ones that do have merit stand. If you are able to
> take criticism, and you are not emotionally and personally attacked to
> your code and your ideas, you would thrive in this environment. If you
> don't want your precious little baby code to fight against the big
> guys, then you shouldn't send it out to the world.

For one thing, contributors on the kernel list are open to technical arguments, and that includes the arguments of others; just like we are here. On the other hand, you seem to rebuke "any" (most) technical argument in harsh words as if it were a personal attack; at least that's how your answers come across to me (and apparently others). That really makes it difficult for most of us here to argue with you technically, which is a pity. That lack of openness for the arguments of others would make your life difficult on the kernel list also.

A completely different issue is that of language. You talk German on a German list and English on an international list. You talk "kernel English" on the kernel list, which is full of words and phrases you would never use in a normal social setting where you talk to people in person; it would be completely unacceptable. Here on the Git list, we prefer to talk like in a normal, albeit colloquial social setting. If you're open for advice: just imagine talking to the people here in person, to colleagues across your desk, and you have a good guideline.

And no, using the same or similar language does not make us the same at all. Using the same language is the natural prerequisite for successful communication.

Felipe, please try to see the efforts many of us are making here in order to keep you as a contributor, and reward it by accepting the advice to revise your language: colleague to colleague.

Michael