Re: [PATCH v5 1/9] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive`

From: Johannes Schindelin <johannes.schindelin@gmx.de>
Date: Nov 13, 2019, 12:30 UTC
Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.1911131326300.46@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet>
In-Reply-To: <xmqqd0dwbfd6.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com>

Hi Junio,

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Junio C Hamano wrote:

Show 16 quoted lines

> Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> writes:
>
> >> Regardless of the language the scripted version was written in, I
> >> think the '--helper' approach is always the poorer choice between
> >> the two [*1*].  It limits the modular decomposition to what suits the
> >> original language, the impedance mismatch between the original and
> >> target language forces us to unnatural style of inter module
> >> communication, and the unnatural interface layer, which we know has
> >> to be discarded at the end, must be written [*2*].
> >>
> >> So, I'd prefer to see "because this is a better way in the longer
> >> term" over "because the --helper approach would not work".
> >
> > Hmm. I feel distinctly unheard.
>
> The feeling is mutual ;-)

Maybe I could take your comments more seriously if you acknowledged the fact that I am _very_ familiar with the vagaries of converting scripts to C. Like, very, very, very familiar.

Show 11 quoted lines

> > It may appear compelling, conceptually, to shun the `--helper` approach,
> > but the more important reality is that it is the only one that makes an
> > incremental conversion possible at all.
> >
> > It took an entire month of 60-hour weeks to complete the conversion of
> > `git add -i`/`git add -p` to C, and only at the very end was I able to
> > run the test suite with `GIT_TEST_ADD_I_USE_BUILTIN=true` and see it
> > pass.
>
> Yeah, that is developer comfort, and of course it is nice to have
> than not to have it.

Comfort has little to do with it. Driving out bugs has a lot more to do with it. Which is the point I am trying to get across the entire time.

Show 9 quoted lines

> But compared to the downside impact to the quality of end result
> that is inherent to the '--helper' approach, I'd prioritize the
> quality of the end result over developer comfort.
>
> > It is indeed _in spite of_ the success of the `--helper` approach that
> > we cannot use it here.
>
> As I do not see those past '--helper' ones necessarily successes, we
> must agree to disagree here.

Right. But if I recall, you never even saw the need for the conversions in the first place. Maybe you still don't?

> In any case, the log message needs to express why _you_ ended up
> taking the non-helper approach.  Even though it is far less
> relevant, compared to that, what other approach you instead wanted
> to take, I do not veto you from having your own opinion.

Okay. I will take that as an indication that I can go forward with the latest proposal. After all, I described pretty well, I think, why _I_ ended up taking the non-helper approach.

Thanks, Dscho

Show 25 quoted lines

> >> [Footnote]
> >>
> >> *1* In only one case I would recommend using "--helper" approach,
> >>     though.  When you are not expecting the developer to be able to
> >>     come up with a better split of the program into modules than how
> >>     the scripted version is, and you want to ensure that the
> >>     developer have something to show when they faild to complete the
> >>     project after N weeks.  You are a more experienced developer
> >>     than an average GSoC student, and there is no pencils-down time,
> >>     so the exception would not apply.
> >>
> >> *2* In "git submodule" for example it was quite natural for the
> >>     module that gives a list of submodules with its traits the
> >>     program cares about to be written as a shell function that
> >>     writes the data to its standard output.  And consuming modules
> >>     sit at the downstream of a pipe, accepting its output.  When you
> >>     are writing these modules both in C, you wouldn't connect them
> >>     with pipe to carry the list of submodules, but a piecemeal
> >>     conversion using the "--helper" approach meant that there always
> >>     remained _some_ consumer that wants to read from the pipe, so
> >>     long after the module lister was rewritten in C, it still needed
> >>     to support a mode where it sends its output to the pipe, instead
> >>     of just passing an array of structures.
> >>
>