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Re: Command-line interface thoughts

From
Scott Chacon <schacon@gmail.com>
Date
Jun 6, 2011, 17:42 UTC
Message-ID
<BANLkTi=KZN3g4s9jHSgYcPHA4eM+2U3g4w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To
<7vd3ir9btd.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org>
Hey,
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:
Show 21 quoted lines
> Michael J Gruber <git@drmicha.warpmail.net> writes:
>
>>> That is why I asked what the user experience of "git show NEXT" as opposed
>>> to "git show INDEX" should look like. So what should it look like during a
>>> "pull" that did not finish?
>>
>> If NEXT is to mean the result of a commit in the current state, and the
>> current state would or should not allow a commit, then trying to access
>> that pseudo-commit should error out with a helpful message.
>
> What "helpful message"? I asked for the user experience, not handwaving.
>
> Do you mean to say that the error message would teach the user that the
> current state is not something you can create a commit? What message would
> that give the end user?  I am hoping the following is not what will happen:
>
>  Q. I tried "git show NEXT" because I wanted to see what the next commit
>     would look like, but I got an error, saying NEXT is not known as I
>     haven't resolved a conflict.
>
>  A. Yes, the message is correct.

I'm not sure why this wouldn't just list out the index tree, having some message for entries that have more than one stage. Like a porcelain-ized version of 'git ls-files --stage', maybe in this case with a warning at the bottom that a subsequent commit command will not complete. Even something similar to what would happen if you ran 'commit' right then:

  fatal: 'commit' will not be possible because you have unmerged files.
Show 6 quoted lines
>  Q. But then how can I see what the next commit would look like?
>
>  A. You would say "git diff HEAD NEXT".
>
>  Q. Ah, that is the same as I always do before making a commit to see what
>     I have added so far look sane. Thanks.

Why would this look sane? I would think this would say "* Unmerged path <file>" just like 'diff --cached would do.

Show 8 quoted lines
>
>     ...after 2 minutes...
>
>  Q. Sorry, it does not work. I get the same error, that says NEXT is not
>     known yet.
>
>  A. Ok, you would say "git diff HEAD" the old fashioned way. The person
>     who thought NEXT would be useful didn't think things through.

I think the point would be that "git diff HEAD WTREE" would give you this same output and if you had the basic concept of these three important areas of Git that you could be explicit about what you wanted to see or compare rather than having to look up the specific special case that will show you what you want. Consider these very common scenarios from a new user perspective: you want to see what is changed in your working tree but not added yet, you want to see what is added but not committed, you want to see the sum total of all changes since your last commit and you want to see what the index currently looks like.

Here are the commands currently:

a) diff b) diff --cached c) diff HEAD d) ls-files --stage

Here would be the commands with the proposed pseudo-trees.

a) diff NEXT WTREE b) diff HEAD NEXT c) diff HEAD WTREE d) show NEXT

It seems to me to be more guessable and straightforward for new users.
 But, yes, I assume there would be some difficulty in supporting it
everywhere.
Show 18 quoted lines
>
>  Q. Now I am seeing a diff between the conflicted state and the previous
>     commit, I think I can get to where I want to go from here. Thanks.
>
>
>> Another option is to make NEXT/INDEX mean a tree (:0:). I have not
>> thought this through (and have not made a suggestion, accordingly) but I
>> do see a problem in the UI. (I don't think we need to change the
>> existing ui in that respect but can amend and improve it.)
>>
>> Anyway, it's rc phase :)
>
> Rc or not rc, just repeating a fuzzy and uncooked "idea" around phoney
> ref-looking names that will end up confusing the users, and selling that
> as if it is a logical conclusion to "we want to give an easier to
> understand UI", without presenting a solid user experience design that is
> convincing enough that the "idea" will reduce confusion will not get us
> anywhere, especially when it is sprinkled with ad hominem attack at me.

I think I'm the only one that mentioned your name so I apologize if you saw that as an attack. I was not saying you are unreasonable in not changing the UI all the time, or that you are unreasonable for not liking the NEXT/WTREE - there are certainly cases I'm not considering. (For example, I'm more concerned about things like 'git commit-tree NEXT' or 'git rev-parse NEXT' if the index is in a weird state - it obviously has to be special-cased and I would assume only usable at the porcelain level, possibly only by 'diff', 'show' and 'grep'. It's the implementation I'm mainly worried about, I feel that the UI would be pretty straightforward in all these cases.)

Re: the ad-hominim stuff, I was simply remarking that the
'reset'/'checkout' debate has been had several times and there is
precedent for it being a non-starter.  I also see and understand the
argument from you and Linus about that, I just happen to disagree with
it. It was not meant to be an attack.
Scott
Previous: Junio C HamanoNext: Junio C Hamano
Message 18 of 98 in “Command-line interface thoughts”
  1. Michael NahasJun 4, 2011
  2. Jakub NarebskiJun 4, 2011
  3. Michael NahasJun 5, 2011
  4. Jakub NarebskiJun 5, 2011
  5. Scott ChaconJun 5, 2011
  6. Jakub NarebskiJun 5, 2011
  7. Junio C HamanoJun 6, 2011
  8. Michael J GruberJun 6, 2011
  9. Michael NahasJun 6, 2011
  10. Jakub NarebskiJun 6, 2011
  11. Michael J GruberJun 6, 2011
  12. Jakub NarebskiJun 8, 2011
  13. Junio C HamanoJun 6, 2011
  14. Drew NorthupJun 6, 2011
  15. Junio C HamanoJun 6, 2011
  16. Michael J GruberJun 6, 2011
  17. Junio C HamanoJun 6, 2011
  18. Scott ChaconJun 6, 2011
  19. Junio C HamanoJun 6, 2011
  20. Michael J GruberJun 7, 2011
  21. Jonathan NiederJun 7, 2011
  22. Holger HellmuthJun 7, 2011
  23. Jonathan NiederJun 7, 2011
  24. Jakub NarebskiJun 7, 2011
  25. Holger HellmuthJun 8, 2011
  26. Jakub NarebskiJun 8, 2011
  27. Holger HellmuthJun 9, 2011
  28. Jakub NarebskiJun 10, 2011
  29. Holger HellmuthJun 10, 2011
  30. Jakub NarebskiJun 10, 2011
  31. Holger HellmuthJun 10, 2011
  32. git diff --added (Re: Command-line interface thoughts)Jonathan Nieder, Jun 13, 2011
  33. Miles BaderJun 13, 2011
  34. Miles BaderJun 13, 2011
  35. Jonathan NiederJun 13, 2011
  36. Junio C HamanoJun 13, 2011
  37. Junio C HamanoJun 13, 2011
  38. Holger HellmuthJun 13, 2011
  39. Michael NahasJun 13, 2011
  40. Jakub NarebskiJun 13, 2011
  41. Holger HellmuthJun 13, 2011
  42. Michael HaggertyJun 14, 2011
  43. Jakub NarebskiJun 14, 2011
  44. René ScharfeJun 7, 2011
  45. Jakub NarebskiJun 7, 2011
  46. Jakub NarebskiJun 8, 2011
  47. Michael NahasJun 8, 2011
  48. Jakub NarebskiJun 8, 2011
  49. Michael NahasJun 8, 2011
  50. Jeff KingJun 8, 2011
  51. Michael NahasJun 8, 2011
  52. Jeff KingJun 9, 2011
  53. Michael NahasJun 9, 2011
  54. Jakub NarebskiJun 10, 2011
  55. Jakub NarebskiJun 9, 2011
  56. Michael NahasJun 9, 2011
  57. Jakub NarebskiJun 9, 2011
  58. Jakub NarebskiJun 9, 2011
  59. Michael HaggertyJun 9, 2011
  60. Andreas EricssonJun 9, 2011
  61. Thomas RastJun 9, 2011
  62. Jeff KingJun 9, 2011
  63. Jay SoffianJun 9, 2011
  64. Jeff KingJun 9, 2011
  65. Junio C HamanoJun 9, 2011
  66. Jay SoffianJun 9, 2011
  67. Junio C HamanoJun 9, 2011
  68. Michael HaggertyJun 9, 2011
  69. Junio C HamanoJun 9, 2011
  70. Michael HaggertyJun 9, 2011
  71. Jeff KingJun 9, 2011
  72. Michael HaggertyJun 9, 2011
  73. Jakub NarebskiJun 9, 2011
  74. Michael HaggertyJun 9, 2011
  75. Jakub NarebskiJun 10, 2011
  76. Michael NahasJun 10, 2011
  77. Jakub NarebskiJun 10, 2011
  78. Jeff KingJun 9, 2011
  79. Michael NahasJun 9, 2011
  80. Jeff KingJun 9, 2011
  81. Jakub NarebskiJun 9, 2011
  82. Michael NahasJun 10, 2011
  83. Jeff KingJun 10, 2011
  84. Junio C HamanoJun 10, 2011
  85. Junio C HamanoJun 10, 2011
  86. Jakub NarebskiJun 10, 2011
  87. Michael HaggertyJun 12, 2011
  88. Junio C HamanoJun 12, 2011
  89. Michael NahasJun 12, 2011
  90. Junio C HamanoJun 12, 2011
  91. Michael NahasJun 13, 2011
  92. Jeff KingJun 13, 2011
  93. Jeff KingJun 9, 2011
  94. Paul EbermannJun 5, 2011
  95. Paul EbermannJun 5, 2011
  96. Michael NahasJun 7, 2011
  97. Junio C HamanoJun 7, 2011
  98. Michael NahasJun 7, 2011

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