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Re: On Tabs and Spaces

From
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Date
Oct 18, 2007, 03:32 UTC
Message-ID
<alpine.LFD.0.999.0710172017020.26902@woody.linux-foundation.org>
In-Reply-To
<20071018030055.GA7218@coredump.intra.peff.net>
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Jeff King wrote:
> 
> Yes, obviously. The people who advocate mixing really _are_ objectively
> wrong. But I was talking about all-spaces versus all-tabs.

If you really are all one-or-the-other, then everything is obviously fine, and spaces have somewhat stronger guarantees (I say "somewhat", because the line-up-guarantee of all-spaces is only guaranteed with fixed-width fonts, and hard-tab indents often look nicer in printouts, and are generally much more flexible in just how wide you make the indent *look*, ie hard-tabs at least *allow* people to see the indents in different ways, even if that will potentially mess up any alignment).

But some mixing is inevitable, and at least in UNIX, the tendency is for tabs, not spaces, by default, so tabs have a much higher chance of *staying* mostly tabs, while anybody who uses spaces pretty much *will* get tabs inserted by just about any programming editor that isn't set up for python.

So you always get _some_ amount of mixing, exactly because most editors won't show you the difference, and what people aren't aware of, they don't think about. There's no getting away from that, unless you actually enforce it with hooks (and in a distributed environment, even that isn't really going to fly, is it?).

And if you *do* decide to enforce it with hooks, you now have issues like the fact that some files mustn't do it (autoconvert tabs to spaces in a Makefile, and it just stops working!), and others have somewhat subtle issues forcing your converter to be somewhat knowledgeable (trivial example: strings that are spread across multiple lines in C..)

In general, if you do enforce it (which I personally think is not likely a good idea, but hey, it's up to the project), I'd *still* suggest going the way of enforcing hard-tabs, not spaces. As mentioned, space does matter, but hardtabs really are "friendlier", and if you're a vi user, you can do a :set tabstop=4 and if that's what you're used to, it will all look better to you.

In contrast, all-spaces just sucks. It really has no redeeming values.
		Linus
Previous: Jeff KingNext: Linus Torvalds
Message 69 of 100 in “On Tabs and Spaces”
  1. Michael WittenOct 16, 2007
  2. Shawn O. PearceOct 16, 2007
  3. Michael WittenOct 16, 2007
  4. Andreas EricssonOct 16, 2007
  5. Sam RavnborgOct 16, 2007
  6. Petr BaudisOct 16, 2007
  7. DavidOct 17, 2007
  8. Andy ParkinsOct 17, 2007
  9. Adam PiatyszekOct 16, 2007
  10. Lars HjemliOct 16, 2007
  11. Adam PiatyszekOct 16, 2007
  12. Jeffrey C. OllieOct 16, 2007
  13. Michael WittenOct 16, 2007
  14. Jari AaltoOct 16, 2007
  15. Linus TorvaldsOct 16, 2007
  16. Mike HommeyOct 16, 2007
  17. Linus TorvaldsOct 16, 2007
  18. Linus TorvaldsOct 16, 2007
  19. Matthieu MoyOct 16, 2007
  20. Tom TobinOct 16, 2007
  21. Linus TorvaldsOct 16, 2007
  22. Christer WeinigelOct 16, 2007
  23. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  24. Michael WittenOct 17, 2007
  25. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  26. Luke LuOct 17, 2007
  27. Michael WittenOct 17, 2007
  28. Luke LuOct 17, 2007
  29. Nikolai WeibullOct 17, 2007
  30. Michael WittenOct 17, 2007
  31. Jari AaltoOct 17, 2007
  32. Andreas EricssonOct 17, 2007
  33. Jari AaltoOct 17, 2007
  34. Dmitry TorokhovOct 18, 2007
  35. Jari AaltoOct 18, 2007
  36. Petr BaudisOct 18, 2007
  37. Nikolai WeibullOct 18, 2007
  38. Miles BaderOct 22, 2007
  39. David KågedalOct 18, 2007
  40. Mike HommeyOct 18, 2007
  41. Jari AaltoOct 18, 2007
  42. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  43. Johannes SchindelinOct 17, 2007
  44. Tom TobinOct 17, 2007
  45. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  46. Tom TobinOct 17, 2007
  47. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  48. Nicolas PitreOct 17, 2007
  49. Josh EnglandOct 17, 2007
  50. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  51. Christer WeinigelOct 17, 2007
  52. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  53. David KastrupOct 18, 2007
  54. Johannes SchindelinOct 17, 2007
  55. Christer WeinigelOct 17, 2007
  56. Johannes SchindelinOct 17, 2007
  57. Christer WeinigelOct 18, 2007
  58. Andreas EricssonOct 18, 2007
  59. David KågedalOct 18, 2007
  60. Linus TorvaldsOct 17, 2007
  61. David KastrupOct 17, 2007
  62. Johannes SchindelinOct 17, 2007
  63. Jan WielemakerOct 17, 2007
  64. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  65. Linus TorvaldsOct 18, 2007
  66. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  67. david@lang.hmOct 18, 2007
  68. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  69. Linus TorvaldsOct 18, 2007
  70. Linus TorvaldsOct 18, 2007
  71. Linus TorvaldsOct 18, 2007
  72. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  73. Add a message explaining that automatic GC is about to startkoreth@midwinter.com, Oct 18, 2007
  74. Steven GrimmOct 18, 2007
  75. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  76. Shawn O. PearceOct 18, 2007
  77. Brian GernhardtOct 18, 2007
  78. Steven GrimmOct 18, 2007
  79. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  80. Shawn O. PearceOct 19, 2007
  81. git-gc: improve wording of --auto notificationJeff King, Oct 19, 2007
  82. Shawn O. PearceOct 19, 2007
  83. Jeff KingOct 19, 2007
  84. Nicolas PitreOct 18, 2007
  85. Nicolas PitreOct 18, 2007
  86. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  87. Jeff KingOct 18, 2007
  88. David KastrupOct 17, 2007
  89. Nicolas PitreOct 17, 2007
  90. David KastrupOct 17, 2007
  91. SeanOct 17, 2007
  92. David KastrupOct 17, 2007
  93. Sam RavnborgOct 16, 2007
  94. Paul WankadiaOct 18, 2007
  95. Linus TorvaldsOct 18, 2007
  96. Dmitry PotapovOct 18, 2007
  97. Andreas EricssonOct 16, 2007
  98. Jan-Benedict GlawOct 16, 2007
  99. Andreas EricssonOct 16, 2007
  100. Robin RosenbergOct 20, 2007

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