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Re: [PATCH v2 02/14] pull: improve default warning

From
Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>
Date
Dec 10, 2020, 02:39 UTC
Message-ID
<CAMP44s2zEi7WqiwZMN8CRzjQ+1CjPpagpTqhAtX9Vx4a5XKoWg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To
<CABPp-BGZcmHhge7JnM12baL_86yV-+7z4kkvFwUUrP+db8QD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Hello,
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Elijah Newren <newren@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:53 AM Felipe Contreras
> <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> wrote:
Show 23 quoted lines
> > I could do some mail archeology if you want, but this issue starts to
> > be mentioned at least since 2010, and virtually everyone (except one
> > person) agreed the default must change, even Linus Torvalds. Reading
> > back what Linus said [5], it's something very, *very* close to what
> > I'm proposing (I would argue my proposal is better).
> >
> > So you let me know. Do you want me to dig a decade of discussions and
> > coalesce those conclusions into a summary so we can decide how to
> > proceed? Or should I drop the plan? Only that if we drop it, I
> > *guarantee* we will discuss it yet again years later.
> >
> > Moreover, this is the reason why I split the series in 3. Even if you
> > decide you don't want to change the default, part I of the series can
> > still be merged *today*, and everyone would benefit.
>
> Have I missed some subtlety here?  This whole email appears to me to
> be arguing against a strawman.  Reading Junio's other emails in this
> thread[1][2], it's pretty clear he thinks the current behavior is
> buggy and suggests how it should be changed.  From what I can tell,
> you appear to be arguing against doing nothing and against only
> accepting perfection, neither of which were positions I saw anyone
> take.  In fact, the positions you argue for at length appear to
> exactly match the ones he took[1][2].  What am I missing?
People change their minds.

Perhaps I misinterpreted something, but when Junio said "I dunno" I take it to mean: he is unsure my proposal "pull.mode=ff-only" makes sense. He also said "for anybody who uses git for real, [force -ff-only] would be pretty much a useless default", which I take it to mean that perhaps we shouldn't change the default to that.

Back in 2013 Junio said "I now see how such a default makes sense." [1], but we are in 2020 and such a default that made sense is not the default.

Mind reading is a really bad habbit [2]; I don't know what other people think, and I would not presume to know.

All I know is that the path forward is unclear. And because I prognosticated that, I split the series in 3 parts, and I've yet to see any objection to part I, which would improve the situation for users *today*.

So, while we make up our collective minds, there's no reason to bother our users with an annoying warning on *every* *single* *pull*.

Cheers.

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/git/7vli74baym.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org/ [2] https://cogbtherapy.com/cbt-blog/common-cognitive-distortions-mind-reading

-- 
Felipe Contreras
Previous: Elijah NewrenNext: Junio C Hamano
Message 33 of 79 in “pull: default warning improvements”
  1. 00/14 pull: default warning improvementsFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  2. 03/14 pull: refactor fast-forward checkFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  3. 04/14 pull: cleanup autostash checkFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  4. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  5. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  6. Elijah NewrenDec 5, 2020
  7. 01/14 doc: pull: explain what is a fast-forwardFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  8. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  9. Jacob KellerDec 5, 2020
  10. 02/14 pull: improve default warningFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  11. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  12. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  13. Elijah NewrenDec 5, 2020
  14. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  15. Chris TorekDec 5, 2020
  16. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  17. Elijah NewrenDec 5, 2020
  18. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  19. Elijah NewrenDec 6, 2020
  20. Felipe ContrerasDec 6, 2020
  21. Junio C HamanoDec 7, 2020
  22. Felipe ContrerasDec 7, 2020
  23. Junio C HamanoDec 7, 2020
  24. Felipe ContrerasDec 7, 2020
  25. Junio C HamanoDec 7, 2020
  26. Felipe ContrerasDec 7, 2020
  27. Jacob KellerDec 7, 2020
  28. Junio C HamanoDec 8, 2020
  29. Felipe ContrerasDec 8, 2020
  30. Junio C HamanoDec 8, 2020
  31. Felipe ContrerasDec 9, 2020
  32. Elijah NewrenDec 9, 2020
  33. Felipe ContrerasDec 10, 2020
  34. Junio C HamanoDec 10, 2020
  35. Felipe ContrerasDec 10, 2020
  36. Felipe ContrerasDec 10, 2020
  37. Junio C HamanoDec 11, 2020
  38. Felipe ContrerasDec 11, 2020
  39. Junio C HamanoDec 14, 2020
  40. Felipe ContrerasDec 14, 2020
  41. Junio C HamanoDec 14, 2020
  42. Felipe ContrerasDec 15, 2020
  43. Jeff KingDec 15, 2020
  44. Felipe ContrerasDec 15, 2020
  45. Junio C HamanoDec 15, 2020
  46. Felipe ContrerasDec 15, 2020
  47. Felipe ContrerasDec 7, 2020
  48. 06/14 pull: move default warningFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  49. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  50. Felipe ContrerasDec 4, 2020
  51. 05/14 pull: trivial cleanupFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  52. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  53. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  54. 08/14 pull: trivial whitespace style fixFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  55. 10/14 pull: add proper error with --ff-onlyFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  56. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  57. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  58. 12/14 pull: show warning with --ffFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  59. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  60. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  61. 14/14 test: pull-options: revert unnecessary changesFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  62. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  63. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  64. 13/14 test: merge-pull-config: trivial cleanupFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  65. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  66. 11/14 tentative: pull: change the semantics of --ff-onlyFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  67. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  68. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  69. experiment: pull: change --ff-only and default modeFelipe Contreras, Dec 5, 2020
  70. Elijah NewrenDec 5, 2020
  71. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  72. Junio C HamanoDec 7, 2020
  73. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  74. 07/14 pull: display default warning only when non-ffFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  75. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  76. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020
  77. 09/14 pull: introduce --merge optionFelipe Contreras, Dec 4, 2020
  78. Elijah NewrenDec 4, 2020
  79. Felipe ContrerasDec 5, 2020

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