Re: [RFE] Demilitarize Documentation (was RE: Delivery Status Notification (Failure))

From: Senol Yazici <sypsilon@googlemail.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2019, 08:02 UTC
Message-ID: <CAFacdQ_9=2hbC8-5+N=RdrGs=Anu2ku+TAj7x07OQNpa1b+gcg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <xmqqimxh2b61.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com>

Dear all,

Thank you for the quick response and apologize my late reply (good morning from Europe).

I understand that well "established" concepts might make it easier grasping concepts.

My concerns towards using these particular expressions (dictator/lieutenant/blessed) are nevertheless motivated.

1. Dictator
Concern: "Bad" connotation.

I agree, dictator is not military, but it is not "not military at all", see https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictator. Except of case 1 a (and 2, which is not applicable in this context), cases b and c are related to either "autocrat" or "fascist dictator". Both of these historical "figures" majorities abused their military power to "rule" in an oppresive way. Further, "googling" dictator does not give Linus as a result in (at least my) search (bubble). It gives the well known bad examples of dictators usually having abused or are abusing their powers in an oppressive/tyrannical way.

Suggestion for substitution: Principal or principal integrator.

2. Lieutenant (somehow I manage to misspell this word most of the times)
Concern: Strong relation to military.

I also agree here, lieutenant is not military, again see https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/principal. The connotation here is also not as negative as it is with dictator. However, googling lieutenant results in mostly military figures.

Suggestion for substitution: Assistant or assistant integrator.

3. Blessed repository
Concern: Rather exclusive than inclusive.

I agree, blessed is not a bad phrasing. But if one is not attached/related to a religion in some way, one somehow feels left out. It is creating some troubles explaining this to the "curious young mind" (i.e. children) without having to mention religion at some point of the explanation. Why should one need to go there in a discussion of how "big projects" are dealt with? Of course, one could say "it is another word for approved" and neglect the origin of the word. What would then be left as a motivation to use this word at all, and not use approved?

The more I try to understand what "blessed" in a context of a repository wants to tell me about it's current state, the less I am understanding.

I think the state of the repository is something like "Approved by principal integrator" or "Principal integrator (PI) approved", thus...

Suggestion for substitution: PI-Approved repository

Words have their weight. In times where the entire world is accessible by the "click of a finger" it is becoming more and more important to be inclusive. Further, in a world where hundred of millions live in conditions ruled by dictators or military regimes _I_ care more about acceptable than "descriptive".

I am not sure if someone in a "warlike" situation will feel "included" finding these expressions when it is about software development projects!

Again thanks for your attention and participation in the discussion.

Best regards, Senol Yazici

Senol

On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 at 19:39, Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:

Show 58 quoted lines

>
> "Randall S. Becker" <rsbecker@nexbridge.com> writes:
>
> >> Taking a lesson from other Open Source projects, Jenkins has deprecated
> >> Master/Slave in favour of Controller/Agent. This seems not only more
> >> acceptable to some, but in my view more descriptive. The terms on the page
> >> above do not actually make any descriptive sense to a newbie. And confusion
> >> could ensue from the dictionary definitions:
> >>
> >> * Lieutenant: an aide or representative of another in the performance of
> >> duty : assistant (not what that repository is for)
> >> * Dictator: one holding complete autocratic control : a person with unlimited
> >> governmental power (not how the git team behaves)
> >> * Blessed: honored in worship : hallowed; of or enjoying happiness (although
> >> I can see the happiness part of this one)
> >
> > It probably would be worth submitting this as an issue to the
> > documentation project at
> > https://github.com/git/git-scm.com. Depending on the response from
> > the committers, I might be willing to take that on, but digging
> > deeper, I'm not sure the terms I proposed as sufficient.
>
> I personally do not feel these three words are so problematic to
> spend bandwidth discussing on here; it probably is partly because I
> am not a native speaker and am not too much disturbed by connotations
> they may make those who are more fluent with the language feel.
>
> The page describing various ways a project can be structured uses
> the kernel project as one of the examples, and over there, at least
> "lieutenant" is a well understood term to describe those who feed
> Linus (because Linus does not scale otherwise).  I do not know if
> Linus is called "dictator" there but I trust those who wrote that
> "distributed" page knew what the words commonly used in the example
> project they chose.  Deviating from the words they use would make
> the example harder to understand.
>
> For that matter, I do not know why borrowing vocabulary from any
> well understood area, be it military or religion, is a bad idea to
> begin with.  I personally have no issues with people who worship
> deity of their own (or none). That probably is also due to where I
> come from, where we have 8 million of them ;-)
>
> So, if the reason why some people feel "blessed" is a bad phrasing
> to use is because it came from a particilar religion and other
> religions have no such concept, I do not agree with such a feeling
> at all, as long as those who hear it all know what the speaker means
> by the word.  I would have more problems if we pick a word rarely
> used that nobody would understand.
>
> I _think_ that is what the distinction between "acceptable" vs "more
> descriptive" mentioned in the early part I quoted in this message
> talks about---I do not quite by "acceptable" part, but I care more
> about "more descriptive" part.
>
> Thansk.
>
>
>