threads / patch / 24990

patchpo/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

Subject: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

## tl;dr

9 messages between Sep 5, 2010 and Sep 8, 2010. Diffs are folded; open one to read it.

replies: 8people: 4as markdown or json

Ramkumar Ramachandra· Sep 5, 2010, 18:27 UTC · lore

Translate a few Git messages to Standard Hindi. It uses a phonetic script called Devanagari. Focus especially on transforming grammar and tense in a sane manner to serve as a guideline for future translators.

Note that Devanagari rendering is broken on many applications by default at this time- the latest Emacs, Vim and Chrome render it incorrectly.

Signed-off-by: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@gmail.com>
Cc: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <avarab@gmail.com>
---
 Note that I don't know Hindi well myself- I read the grammar rules,
 looked up some dictionaries, and used peer review to focus on few
 high-quality translations. The grammar/ tense transformation from
 English is especially non-trivial. I'd encourage an expert Hindi
 speaker to contribute to this.
 To fix rendering in Emacs, see
 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SupportHindi
 po/hi.po |   67 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 files changed, 67 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 po/hi.po
Show changes to po/hi.po +67 −0
diff --git a/po/hi.po b/po/hi.po
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..d31e60b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/po/hi.po
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+msgid ""
+msgstr ""
+"Project-Id-Version: Git\n"
+"Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: Git Mailing List <git@vger.kernel.org>\n"
+"Language-Team: Git Mailing List <git@vger.kernel.org>\n"
+"Last-Translator: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@gmail.com>\n"
+"POT-Creation-Date: 2010-09-05 16:05+0530\n"
+"Language: hi\n"
+"MIME-Version: 1.0\n"
+"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8\n"
+"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "Could not make %s writable by group"
+msgstr "%s को समूह द्वारा लिखने योग्य नहीं बना सके"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "insanely long template name %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट का नाम बहुत लंबा है: %s"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "cannot stat '%s'"
+msgstr "'%s' को [stat] नहीं कर सके"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "cannot stat template '%s'"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट '%s' को [stat] नहीं कर सके"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "cannot opendir '%s'"
+msgstr "निर्देशिका नहीं खोल सके: '%s'"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "cannot readlink '%s'"
+msgstr "लिंक नहीं पढ़ सके: '%s'"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "insanely long symlink %s"
+msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक बहुत लंबा है: %s"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "cannot symlink '%s' '%s'"
+msgstr "'%s' से '%s' प्रतीकात्मक लिंक नहीं बना सके"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "cannot copy '%s' to '%s'"
+msgstr "'%s' का नकल '%s' नहीं बना सके"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "ignoring template %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट को उपेक्षा कर रहे है: %s"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "insanely long template path %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट का आकार बहुत लंबा है: %s"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "templates not found %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट नहीं मिला: %s"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "not copying templates of a wrong format version %d from '%s'"
+msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d का टेम्पलेट नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
+
+#, c-format
+msgid "insane git directory %s"
+msgstr "खराब गिट निर्देशिका %s"

-- 
1.7.2.2.409.gdbb11.dirty
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason· Sep 5, 2010, 19:07 UTC · re: Ramkumar Ramachandra · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 18:27, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Show 16 quoted lines
> Translate a few Git messages to Standard Hindi. It uses a phonetic
> script called Devanagari. Focus especially on transforming grammar and
> tense in a sane manner to serve as a guideline for future translators.
>
> Note that Devanagari rendering is broken on many applications by
> default at this time- the latest Emacs, Vim and Chrome render it
> incorrectly.
>
> Signed-off-by: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@gmail.com>
> Cc: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <avarab@gmail.com>
> ---
>  Note that I don't know Hindi well myself- I read the grammar rules,
>  looked up some dictionaries, and used peer review to focus on few
>  high-quality translations. The grammar/ tense transformation from
>  English is especially non-trivial. I'd encourage an expert Hindi
>  speaker to contribute to this.

I don't know Hindi either, but the gettext headers and everything else about this looks OK. Thanks for contributing to translation.

Acked-by: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <avarab@gmail.com>
Sitaram Chamarty· Sep 6, 2010, 00:54 UTC · re: Ramkumar Ramachandra · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@gmail.com> wrote:

Show 5 quoted lines
>  Note that I don't know Hindi well myself- I read the grammar rules,
>  looked up some dictionaries, and used peer review to focus on few
>  high-quality translations. The grammar/ tense transformation from
>  English is especially non-trivial. I'd encourage an expert Hindi
>  speaker to contribute to this.

looks OK to me. Some of those words will never be encountered in colloquial Hindi (I had to think for a bit on निर्देशिका and प्रतीकात्मक लिंक!) , but that's the way it always is. We end up just using the English word within Hindi/Telugu/whatever :-)

Ramkumar Ramachandra· Sep 6, 2010, 04:29 UTC · re: Sitaram Chamarty · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

Hi Sitaram,
Sitaram Chamarty writes:
> looks OK to me.  Some of those words will never be encountered in
> colloquial Hindi (I had to think for a bit on निर्देशिका and
> प्रतीकात्मक लिंक!) , but that's the way it always is.  We end up just
> using the English word within Hindi/Telugu/whatever :-)

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, that's true- even among my friends, only a few expert Hindi speakers were able to follow hindi.po completely. However, I figured that only those people who are more comfortable in Hindi than English will actually use hindi.po, so we might as well do it right :)

I also discovered another thing- even expert Hindi speakers don't seem to understand Hindi grammar very well :p After a few hours of studying, I was able to correct a few more mistakes that others weren't able to spot. Here's the diff.

Junio: Please squash this into the first revision of the patch.
Show changes to po/hi.po +12 −12
diff --git a/po/hi.po b/po/hi.po
index d31e60b..a5464b3 100644
--- a/po/hi.po
+++ b/po/hi.po
@@ -12,11 +12,11 @@ msgstr ""
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "Could not make %s writable by group"
-msgstr "%s को समूह द्वारा लिखने योग्य नहीं बना सके"
+msgstr "%s को समूह द्वारा लिखने की इजाज़त नही दे सके"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "insanely long template name %s"
-msgstr "टेम्पलेट का नाम बहुत लंबा है: %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का नाम बहुत लंबा है"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "cannot stat '%s'"
@@ -28,40 +28,40 @@ msgstr "टेम्पलेट '%s' को [stat] नहीं कर सक
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "cannot opendir '%s'"
-msgstr "निर्देशिका नहीं खोल सके: '%s'"
+msgstr "निर्देशिका '%s' नहीं खोल सके"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "cannot readlink '%s'"
-msgstr "लिंक नहीं पढ़ सके: '%s'"
+msgstr "लिंक '%s' नहीं पढ़ सके"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "insanely long symlink %s"
-msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक बहुत लंबा है: %s"
+msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक %s बहुत लंबा है"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "cannot symlink '%s' '%s'"
-msgstr "'%s' से '%s' प्रतीकात्मक लिंक नहीं बना सके"
+msgstr "'%s' का प्रतीकात्मक लिंक '%s' में नहीं बना सके"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "cannot copy '%s' to '%s'"
-msgstr "'%s' का नकल '%s' नहीं बना सके"
+msgstr "'%s' का अनुकृति '%s' में नहीं कर सके"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "ignoring template %s"
-msgstr "टेम्पलेट को उपेक्षा कर रहे है: %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का उपेक्षा कर रहे है"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "insanely long template path %s"
-msgstr "टेम्पलेट का आकार बहुत लंबा है: %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का आकार बहुत लंबा है"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "templates not found %s"
-msgstr "टेम्पलेट नहीं मिला: %s"
+msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s नहीं मिला"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "not copying templates of a wrong format version %d from '%s'"
-msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d का टेम्पलेट नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
+msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d के टेम्पलेट्स के नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "insane git directory %s"
-msgstr "खराब गिट निर्देशिका %s"
+msgstr "%s खराब गिट निर्देशिका है"
Antriksh Pany· Sep 7, 2010, 03:44 UTC · re: Ramkumar Ramachandra · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

Hi Ram
Nice to see some Hindi around here ;P
A few comments inline.
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Show 36 quoted lines
> Hi Sitaram,
>
> Sitaram Chamarty writes:
>> looks OK to me.  Some of those words will never be encountered in
>> colloquial Hindi (I had to think for a bit on निर्देशिका and
>> प्रतीकात्मक लिंक!) , but that's the way it always is.  We end up just
>> using the English word within Hindi/Telugu/whatever :-)
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Yes, that's true- even among my friends, only
> a few expert Hindi speakers were able to follow hindi.po
> completely. However, I figured that only those people who are more
> comfortable in Hindi than English will actually use hindi.po, so we
> might as well do it right :)
>
> I also discovered another thing- even expert Hindi speakers don't seem
> to understand Hindi grammar very well :p After a few hours of
> studying, I was able to correct a few more mistakes that others
> weren't able to spot. Here's the diff.
>
> Junio: Please squash this into the first revision of the patch.
>
> diff --git a/po/hi.po b/po/hi.po
> index d31e60b..a5464b3 100644
> --- a/po/hi.po
> +++ b/po/hi.po
> @@ -12,11 +12,11 @@ msgstr ""
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "Could not make %s writable by group"
> -msgstr "%s को समूह द्वारा लिखने योग्य नहीं बना सके"
> +msgstr "%s को समूह द्वारा लिखने की इजाज़त नही दे सके"
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "insanely long template name %s"
> -msgstr "टेम्पलेट का नाम बहुत लंबा है: %s"
> +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का नाम बहुत लंबा है"
bahut -> atyant?
Show 19 quoted lines
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "cannot stat '%s'"
> @@ -28,40 +28,40 @@ msgstr "टेम्पलेट '%s' को [stat] नहीं कर सक
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "cannot opendir '%s'"
> -msgstr "निर्देशिका नहीं खोल सके: '%s'"
> +msgstr "निर्देशिका '%s' नहीं खोल सके"
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "cannot readlink '%s'"
> -msgstr "लिंक नहीं पढ़ सके: '%s'"
> +msgstr "लिंक '%s' नहीं पढ़ सके"
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "insanely long symlink %s"
> -msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक बहुत लंबा है: %s"
> +msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक %s बहुत लंबा है"

Same suggestion: bahut -> atyant? Also, dropping the 'है' might be crisper and closer to the English version.

Show 10 quoted lines
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "cannot symlink '%s' '%s'"
> -msgstr "'%s' से '%s' प्रतीकात्मक लिंक नहीं बना सके"
> +msgstr "'%s' का प्रतीकात्मक लिंक '%s' में नहीं बना सके"
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "cannot copy '%s' to '%s'"
> -msgstr "'%s' का नकल '%s' नहीं बना सके"
> +msgstr "'%s' का अनुकृति '%s' में नहीं कर सके"
ka -> ki
Show 5 quoted lines
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "ignoring template %s"
> -msgstr "टेम्पलेट को उपेक्षा कर रहे है: %s"
> +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का उपेक्षा कर रहे है"
ka -> ki
Show 5 quoted lines
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "insanely long template path %s"
> -msgstr "टेम्पलेट का आकार बहुत लंबा है: %s"
> +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का आकार बहुत लंबा है"
Again: bahut -> atyant. And again, 'है' could be dropped perhaps.
Show 10 quoted lines
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "templates not found %s"
> -msgstr "टेम्पलेट नहीं मिला: %s"
> +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s नहीं मिला"
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "not copying templates of a wrong format version %d from '%s'"
> -msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d का टेम्पलेट नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
> +msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d के टेम्पलेट्स के नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
Had changed नकल to अनुकृति earlier. Not doing that here?
Show 5 quoted lines
>
>  #, c-format
>  msgid "insane git directory %s"
> -msgstr "खराब गिट निर्देशिका %s"
> +msgstr "%s खराब गिट निर्देशिका है"
I think the first one was better.

Having gone through this, I find it hard to think that anyone is really going to use the Hindi translation. Any Indian who would be involved with git would almost certainly be involved with it in the English language, particularly given that some of the Hindi words are fairly hard to follow. Also, when it comes to the Sciences (and in particular, Computers) Indians (at least the Hindi speaking population) have directly adopted the English versions instead of seeking appropriate Hindi ones.

If we are going to have a hindi.po, I think it may be altogether better to drop the unusual Hindi words, and literally use the English word written in Hindi.. the way you did for words like 'templates', 'link' etc. Other candidates could be 'directory', 'format', 'version', 'copy', 'symbolic (link)', 'group', 'read', 'write'. I know that translation for the last few words are not complicated. However, the subtle meanings of these words in the context of computers gets lost when translated in Hindi. (For example, 'read' and 'write', while being similar to real-life usage, have in fact taken very specific meanings in the context of computer science.)

Cheers Antriksh

Ramkumar Ramachandra· Sep 7, 2010, 07:55 UTC · re: Antriksh Pany · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

Hi Antriksh,
Antriksh Pany writes:
> Nice to see some Hindi around here ;P
> 
> A few comments inline.
Thanks for the wonderful feedback! :)
Show 5 quoted lines
> >  #, c-format
> >  msgid "insanely long template name %s"
> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट का नाम बहुत लंबा है: %s"
> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का नाम बहुत लंबा है"
> bahut -> atyant?
Yes, definitely. बहुत did feel out of place here.
Show 6 quoted lines
> >  #, c-format
> >  msgid "insanely long symlink %s"
> > -msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक बहुत लंबा है: %s"
> > +msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक %s बहुत लंबा है"
> Same suggestion: bahut -> atyant?
> Also, dropping the 'है' might be crisper and closer to the English version.
Okay.
Show 5 quoted lines
> >  #, c-format
> >  msgid "cannot copy '%s' to '%s'"
> > -msgstr "'%s' का नकल '%s' नहीं बना सके"
> > +msgstr "'%s' का अनुकृति '%s' में नहीं कर सके"
> ka -> ki

Ah, yes. Gender ambiguity in Hindi. I also felt it should be की. Can you explain why though? '%s' a noun here; have you chosen it to be feminine? But अनुकृति is a noun as well, and quite obviously feminine. Is that why?

Show 5 quoted lines
> >  #, c-format
> >  msgid "ignoring template %s"
> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट को उपेक्षा कर रहे है: %s"
> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का उपेक्षा कर रहे है"
> ka -> ki

Similar confusion- I'd like an explanation if possible. उपेक्षा is a verb, and I'm not sure how it transforms when gender is afflicted on it. I have chosen टेम्पलेट to be masculine- do you think it should be feminine?

Show 5 quoted lines
> >  #, c-format
> >  msgid "insanely long template path %s"
> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट का आकार बहुत लंबा है: %s"
> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का आकार बहुत लंबा है"
> Again: bahut -> atyant. And again, 'है' could be dropped perhaps.
Ok.
Show 5 quoted lines
> >  #, c-format
> >  msgid "not copying templates of a wrong format version %d from '%s'"
> > -msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d का टेम्पलेट नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
> > +msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d के टेम्पलेट्स के नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
> Had changed नकल to अनुकृति earlier. Not doing that here?

While नकल is definitely the easier word to use, it's a verb. अनुकृति is a noun on the other hand- I had to introduce it into the previous sentence because "Make a नकल of X in Y" would be technically incorrect.

Show 5 quoted lines
> >  #, c-format
> >  msgid "insane git directory %s"
> > -msgstr "खराब गिट निर्देशिका %s"
> > +msgstr "%s खराब गिट निर्देशिका है"
> I think the first one was better.
Ok.
Show 8 quoted lines
> Having gone through this, I find it hard to think that anyone is
> really going to use the Hindi translation. Any Indian who would be
> involved with git would almost certainly be involved with it in the
> English language, particularly given that some of the Hindi words are
> fairly hard to follow. Also, when it comes to the Sciences (and in
> particular, Computers) Indians (at least the Hindi speaking
> population) have directly adopted the English versions instead of
> seeking appropriate Hindi ones.
I understand.
Show 10 quoted lines
> If we are going to have a hindi.po, I think it may be altogether
> better to drop the unusual Hindi words, and literally use the English
> word written in Hindi.. the way you did for words like 'templates',
> 'link' etc. Other candidates could be 'directory', 'format',
> 'version', 'copy', 'symbolic (link)', 'group', 'read', 'write'. I know
> that translation for the last few words are not complicated. However,
> the subtle meanings of these words in the context of computers gets
> lost when translated in Hindi. (For example, 'read' and 'write', while
> being similar to real-life usage, have in fact taken very specific
> meanings in the context of computer science.)

A number of my friends pointed out the same thing. I don't completely agree though. In my opinion, the translations are really just fun, and give the user a warm feeling- it's quite unlikely that a person (atleast Indian) who doesn't understand English will use Git in the first place.

Personally, I find English words written in Devanagiri script quite annoying: there is really no elegance or point in translating "Could not stat copy of symbolic link" to "सिम्बोलिक लिंक का कॉपी स्टाट नहीं कर सके". A person who uses hi.po is doing it mainly for recreational purposes, and we'd like to give that person a beautiful and elegant experience, instead of dumbly writing all the nouns in Devanagiri script and inserting a few trivial filler verbs.

While I probably took this too far with words like निर्देशिका, I'd like to be able to find some kind of compromise- I'll submit another revision shortly using a combination of real Hindi words, English words written in Devanagiri script, and English words expressed plainly (like "[stat]").

I wasn't joking when I said that I don't know Hindi. I've never used applications that speak anything but English, and have never been involved with translation before. Thanks for poking- I'll email some Indians involved with translation projects hi.po and ask them for feedback.

Thanks.
-- Ram
Antriksh Pany· Sep 8, 2010, 13:53 UTC · re: Ramkumar Ramachandra · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

Hi Ram

Some more comments (spotted a few more possible improvements) and responses inline.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Show 37 quoted lines
> Hi Antriksh,
>
> Antriksh Pany writes:
>> Nice to see some Hindi around here ;P
>>
>> A few comments inline.
>
> Thanks for the wonderful feedback! :)
>
>> >  #, c-format
>> >  msgid "insanely long template name %s"
>> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट का नाम बहुत लंबा है: %s"
>> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का नाम बहुत लंबा है"
>> bahut -> atyant?
>
> Yes, definitely. बहुत did feel out of place here.
>
>> >  #, c-format
>> >  msgid "insanely long symlink %s"
>> > -msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक बहुत लंबा है: %s"
>> > +msgstr "प्रतीकात्मक लिंक %s बहुत लंबा है"
>> Same suggestion: bahut -> atyant?
>> Also, dropping the 'है' might be crisper and closer to the English
>> version.
>
> Okay.
>
>> >  #, c-format
>> >  msgid "cannot copy '%s' to '%s'"
>> > -msgstr "'%s' का नकल '%s' नहीं बना सके"
>> > +msgstr "'%s' का अनुकृति '%s' में नहीं कर सके"
>> ka -> ki
>
> Ah, yes. Gender ambiguity in Hindi. I also felt it should be की. Can
> you explain why though? '%s' a noun here; have you chosen it to be
> feminine? But अनुकृति is a noun as well, and quite obviously
> feminine. Is that why?
Yes, अनुकृति being feminine is what causes 'ki' to be used here.
Show 11 quoted lines
>
>> >  #, c-format
>> >  msgid "ignoring template %s"
>> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट को उपेक्षा कर रहे है: %s"
>> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का उपेक्षा कर रहे है"
>> ka -> ki
>
> Similar confusion- I'd like an explanation if possible. उपेक्षा is a
> verb, and I'm not sure how it transforms when gender is afflicted on
> it. I have chosen टेम्पलेट to be masculine- do you think it should be
> feminine?

Again, उपेक्षा is determining the gender usage. Also, not sure if this is a good word to use. उपेक्षा typically has a negative connotation, so does not seem to fit well here. अनदेखा (while not being perfect either) may be better?

Show 8 quoted lines
>
>> >  #, c-format
>> >  msgid "insanely long template path %s"
>> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट का आकार बहुत लंबा है: %s"
>> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का आकार बहुत लंबा है"
>> Again: bahut -> atyant. And again, 'है' could be dropped perhaps.
>
> Ok.

On second thoughts, आकार is definitely not close enough to 'path'. Can we think of something else?

Show 13 quoted lines
>
>> >  #, c-format
>> >  msgid "not copying templates of a wrong format version %d from '%s'"
>> > -msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d का टेम्पलेट नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
>> > +msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d के टेम्पलेट्स के नकल नहीं कर रहे
>> > है"
>> Had changed नकल to अनुकृति earlier. Not doing that here?
>
> While नकल is definitely the easier word to use, it's a verb. अनुकृति is
> a noun on the other hand- I had to introduce it into the previous
> sentence because "Make a नकल of X in Y" would be technically
> incorrect.
>

'टेम्पलेट्स के ' -> 'ki' would have to be used here. 'नकल' is determining gender here :)

Show 44 quoted lines
>> >  #, c-format
>> >  msgid "insane git directory %s"
>> > -msgstr "खराब गिट निर्देशिका %s"
>> > +msgstr "%s खराब गिट निर्देशिका है"
>> I think the first one was better.
>
> Ok.
>
>> Having gone through this, I find it hard to think that anyone is
>> really going to use the Hindi translation. Any Indian who would be
>> involved with git would almost certainly be involved with it in the
>> English language, particularly given that some of the Hindi words are
>> fairly hard to follow. Also, when it comes to the Sciences (and in
>> particular, Computers) Indians (at least the Hindi speaking
>> population) have directly adopted the English versions instead of
>> seeking appropriate Hindi ones.
>
> I understand.
>
>> If we are going to have a hindi.po, I think it may be altogether
>> better to drop the unusual Hindi words, and literally use the English
>> word written in Hindi.. the way you did for words like 'templates',
>> 'link' etc. Other candidates could be 'directory', 'format',
>> 'version', 'copy', 'symbolic (link)', 'group', 'read', 'write'. I know
>> that translation for the last few words are not complicated. However,
>> the subtle meanings of these words in the context of computers gets
>> lost when translated in Hindi. (For example, 'read' and 'write', while
>> being similar to real-life usage, have in fact taken very specific
>> meanings in the context of computer science.)
>
> A number of my friends pointed out the same thing. I don't completely
> agree though. In my opinion, the translations are really just fun, and
> give the user a warm feeling- it's quite unlikely that a person
> (atleast Indian) who doesn't understand English will use Git in the
> first place.
>
> Personally, I find English words written in Devanagiri script quite
> annoying: there is really no elegance or point in translating "Could
> not stat copy of symbolic link" to "सिम्बोलिक लिंक का कॉपी स्टाट नहीं कर
> सके". A person who uses hi.po is doing it mainly for recreational
> purposes, and we'd like to give that person a beautiful and elegant
> experience, instead of dumbly writing all the nouns in Devanagiri
> script and inserting a few trivial filler verbs.
>

Well, I really thought that the purpose of translation is more utilitarian than anything else. And I would still count myself among those friends of yours who either don't see many Indians using this, or see some value only if words which don't have a direct reference in Hindi are transliterated :)

There are other languages where effort is taken to find equivalents to modern terms, and hence don't need a lot of transliterations. That, unfortunately, is not the case with Hindi :(

Show 12 quoted lines
> While I probably took this too far with words like निर्देशिका, I'd like
> to be able to find some kind of compromise- I'll submit another
> revision shortly using a combination of real Hindi words, English
> words written in Devanagiri script, and English words expressed
> plainly (like "[stat]").
>
> I wasn't joking when I said that I don't know Hindi. I've never used
> applications that speak anything but English, and have never been
> involved with translation before. Thanks for poking- I'll email some
> Indians involved with translation projects hi.po and ask them for
> feedback.
>

Really appreciate the effort you have put in on this, despite not being a native Hindi speaker. Sorry for so many nits :)

Cheers Antriksh

Ramkumar Ramachandra· Sep 8, 2010, 14:50 UTC · re: Antriksh Pany · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

Hi Antriksh,
Antriksh Pany writes:
> Some more comments (spotted a few more possible improvements) and
> responses inline.
Thanks for additionally clearing my doubts :)
Show 12 quoted lines
> >> >  #, c-format
> >> >  msgid "cannot copy '%s' to '%s'"
> >> > -msgstr "'%s' का नकल '%s' नहीं बना सके"
> >> > +msgstr "'%s' का अनुकृति '%s' में नहीं कर सके"
> >> ka -> ki
> >
> > Ah, yes. Gender ambiguity in Hindi. I also felt it should be की. Can
> > you explain why though? '%s' a noun here; have you chosen it to be
> > feminine? But अनुकृति is a noun as well, and quite obviously
> > feminine. Is that why?
> 
> Yes, अनुकृति being feminine is what causes 'ki' to be used here.
Got it.
Show 15 quoted lines
> >> >  #, c-format
> >> >  msgid "ignoring template %s"
> >> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट को उपेक्षा कर रहे है: %s"
> >> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का उपेक्षा कर रहे है"
> >> ka -> ki
> >
> > Similar confusion- I'd like an explanation if possible. उपेक्षा is a
> > verb, and I'm not sure how it transforms when gender is afflicted on
> > it. I have chosen टेम्पलेट to be masculine- do you think it should be
> > feminine?
> 
> Again, उपेक्षा is determining the gender usage.
> Also, not sure if this is a good word to use. उपेक्षा typically has a negative
> connotation, so does not seem to fit well here. अनदेखा (while not being
> perfect either) may be better?

Actually, this was my intent. I considered अनदेखा in the beginning, but I thought उपेक्षा was closer. अनदेखा sounds like "didn't look", but I was aiming for a more aggressive word for conciously ignoring.

Show 10 quoted lines
> >> >  #, c-format
> >> >  msgid "insanely long template path %s"
> >> > -msgstr "टेम्पलेट का आकार बहुत लंबा है: %s"
> >> > +msgstr "टेम्पलेट %s का आकार बहुत लंबा है"
> >> Again: bahut -> atyant. And again, 'है' could be dropped perhaps.
> >
> > Ok.
> 
> On second thoughts, आकार is definitely not close enough to 'path'.
> Can we think of something else?

A literal translation like पथ is probably not the way to go. राह is only marginally better. Although आकार literally means "form", I also think it's not close enough. If we run out of ideas, we have to transliterate.

Show 15 quoted lines
> >> >  #, c-format
> >> >  msgid "not copying templates of a wrong format version %d from '%s'"
> >> > -msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d का टेम्पलेट नकल नहीं कर रहे है"
> >> > +msgstr "'%s' से गलत स्वरूप संस्करण %d के टेम्पलेट्स के नकल नहीं कर रहे
> >> > है"
> >> Had changed नकल to अनुकृति earlier. Not doing that here?
> >
> > While नकल is definitely the easier word to use, it's a verb. अनुकृति is
> > a noun on the other hand- I had to introduce it into the previous
> > sentence because "Make a नकल of X in Y" would be technically
> > incorrect.
> >
> 
> 'टेम्पलेट्स के ' -> 'ki' would have to be used here. 'नकल' is determining
> gender here :)
Nice catch :)
Show 9 quoted lines
> Well, I really thought that the purpose of translation is more utilitarian
> than anything else. And I would still count myself among those friends
> of yours who either don't see many Indians using this, or see some value
> only if words which don't have a direct reference in Hindi are transliterated
> :)
> 
> There are other languages where effort is taken to find equivalents to modern
> terms, and hence don't need a lot of transliterations. That, unfortunately, is
> not the case with Hindi :(

Yeah, translation definitely hasn't caught up here- especially with everyone aggressively pursuing English education.

> Really appreciate the effort you have put in on this, despite not being
> a native Hindi speaker. Sorry for so many nits :)

Thanks for the nits. Being a grammar nazi can't be easy :) I'll submit another revision with some amendments soon.

-- Ram
Ramkumar Ramachandra· Sep 8, 2010, 15:01 UTC · lore

Re: [PATCH] po/hi.po: Add Hindi Translation

Hi Thiago,
[+cc: list, because I think others will find it useful as well]
Thiago Farina writes:
> How did you do this translation? I would like to do the Portuguese
> Brazilian translation. I have tried the poedit, but I couldn't make it
> work yet.
Here's a quick tutorial to get started:
1. Get Ævar's fork of git.git from [1] and checkout the `ab/i18n-all`
   branch.
2. Read the instructions in po/README to create the actual .po file.
3. Get an editor that has transliteration support. For example, for
   Emacs and Hindi, execute (set-input-method devanagari-itrans) and
   use C-\ to switch between the input methods. 
4. If you're not able to find a suitable editor or otherwise, use
   Google Transliterate [2].
5. Optionally, copy out some additional headers from `po/is.po` etc.
6. Translate and send the patch to the list.
Hope that helps.
-- Ram

[1]: git://github.com/avar/git.git [2]: http://google.com/transliterate

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