threads / discuss / 34525

git tag usability issue: Lightweight vs Annotated confusion for the end user (ex. git describe default)

Subject: git tag usability issue: Lightweight vs Annotated confusion for the end user (ex. git describe default)

## tl;dr

23 messages between Jul 24, 2013 and Aug 7, 2013.

replies: 22people: 7as markdown or json

Daniele Segato· Jul 24, 2013, 10:17 UTC · lore
Hi,

I think there is an issue with the documentation of git tag, or with the default being chosen for tags.

the git tag documentation say:
*****
        If one of -a, -s, or -u <key-id> is passed, the command creates 
a tag object, and requires a tag message. Unless -m <msg> or -F <file> 
is given, an editor is started for the user to type in the tag
        message.
        If -m <msg> or -F <file> is given and -a, -s, and -u <key-id> 
are absent, -a is implied.
        Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA1 object name of the 
commit object is created (i.e. a lightweight tag).
******

And no options below is provided to list annotated tags only or lightweight tags only (is there a way to do so?)

I initially didn't get git cared too much on this difference: I've been using both annotated and lightweight tags without distinctions, annotated when I want to write something about the tag and non-annotated when I do not need it.

Since no option is given to show annotated only tags these made sense to me.

Recently I started using submodules and I noticed that: git submodule status

sometimes gave me the tag name of the submodule between parentesis and sometimes it gave me something like this: +6903774653de52d0206e0e6026ca6914def8a333 submodule (1.0-2-g6903774)

even if the 6903774653de52d0206e0e6026ca6914def8a333 was actually a tag (1.1)

the git help submodule say status use git describe, so I've entered the submodule directory and tried:

$ git describe 1.0-2-g6903774

$ git describe --tags 1.1

reading the git help describe I discovered the git describe made an assumption and default to just show annotated tags.

To me, this assumption should have been documented very clearly in the git tag help page, something like this:

*****
        If one of -a, -s, or -u <key-id> is passed, the command creates 
a tag object, and requires a tag message. Unless -m <msg> or -F <file> 
is given, an editor is started for the user to type in the tag
        message.
        If -m <msg> or -F <file> is given and -a, -s, and -u <key-id> 
are absent, -a is implied.
        Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA1 object name of the 
commit object is created (i.e. a lightweight tag).
        ANNOTATED vs LIGHTWEIGHT tags
        Some git command (ex. git describe) by default only consider 
annotated tags. Annotated and Lightweight tags are not the same thing 
for git and you shouldn't mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for 
release while lightweight tags are meant to tag random commits.
******

And I think an option in git tag to only show annotated tags (or only show lightweight tags) is needed.

Finally, now that I discovered this I can't replace the lightweights tags with annotated tags without a public announcement requiring all developers to delete their local tags.

I'm not aware of any discussion you did about this matter but I think there's something wrong here that should be fixed.

Regards, Daniele Segato

Junio C Hamano· Jul 24, 2013, 20:34 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: git tag usability issue: Lightweight vs Annotated confusion for the end user (ex. git describe default)

Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com> writes:
> Annotated and Lightweight tags are not the same thing
> for git and you shouldn't mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for
> release while lightweight tags are meant to tag random commits.
Nicely explained.

This is one of those "we who worked on Git (not worked "with" Git) for a long time _know_ it and do not need it to be explained, and we didn't spot that it is not explained in the documentation for new people."

Care to roll a documentation patch (and get a commit count for yourself ;-)?

Thanks.
Daniele Segato· Jul 25, 2013, 13:45 UTC · re: Junio C Hamano · lore

[PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

 From d0f4eca712e7cf74286bfab306763a8a571b6c95 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:33:18 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user should use one in place of the other.

Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
---
  Documentation/git-tag.txt |    4 ++++
  1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)
diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
index 22894cb..48f5504 100644
--- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
+++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
@@ -36,6 +36,10 @@ are absent, `-a` is implied.
  Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit 
object is
  created (i.e. a lightweight tag).

+Annotated and Lightweight tags are not the same thing for git and you 
shouldn't
+mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight 
tags are
+meant to tag random commits.
+
  A GnuPG signed tag object will be created when `-s` or `-u
  <key-id>` is used.  When `-u <key-id>` is not used, the
  committer identity for the current user is used to find the

-- 
1.7.10.4
Marc Branchaud· Jul 25, 2013, 14:47 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 13-07-25 09:45 AM, Daniele Segato wrote:
Show 25 quoted lines
> From d0f4eca712e7cf74286bfab306763a8a571b6c95 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:33:18 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags
> 
> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
> should use one in place of the other.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> ---
>  Documentation/git-tag.txt |    4 ++++
>  1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> index 22894cb..48f5504 100644
> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> @@ -36,6 +36,10 @@ are absent, `-a` is implied.
>  Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit
> object is
>  created (i.e. a lightweight tag).
> 
> +Annotated and Lightweight tags are not the same thing for git and you shouldn't
> +mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are
> +meant to tag random commits.

Unfortunately the word "annotated" hasn't yet been introduced at this point, so the overall effect is even more confusing. Also, I find the "release" vs. "random" distinction a bit misleading since both types of tag can refer to any object. I also liked the direction of your earlier "command only consider annotated tags by default" phrasing.

After reading the Tagging section of the Git Book[1] I came up with the following. Feel free to modify it as you like, or ignore it completely:

Tag objects (created with -a) are called annotated tags. While a lightweight tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit object), an annotated tag contains the creation date, the tagger's name and e-mail, a tagging message, and can be signed and verified with GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG). Most git commands only consider annotated tags by default. In general lightweight tags are for private or temporary object labels, while annotated tags are meant to be permanent and/or published. For example, an annotated tag is normally used to identify a release point.

		M.
[1] http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Basics-Tagging
Daniele Segato· Jul 26, 2013, 08:44 UTC · re: Marc Branchaud · lore

Re: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/25/2013 04:47 PM, Marc Branchaud wrote:
Show 29 quoted lines
> On 13-07-25 09:45 AM, Daniele Segato wrote:
>>  From d0f4eca712e7cf74286bfab306763a8a571b6c95 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>> From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:33:18 +0200
>> Subject: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags
>>
>> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
>> should use one in place of the other.
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>> ---
>>   Documentation/git-tag.txt |    4 ++++
>>   1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)
>>
>> diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> index 22894cb..48f5504 100644
>> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> @@ -36,6 +36,10 @@ are absent, `-a` is implied.
>>   Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit
>> object is
>>   created (i.e. a lightweight tag).
>>
>> +Annotated and Lightweight tags are not the same thing for git and you shouldn't
>> +mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are
>> +meant to tag random commits.
>
> Unfortunately the word "annotated" hasn't yet been introduced at this point,
> so the overall effect is even more confusing.

Actually annotated tag has already be introduced but they haven't been named "Annotated" yet; what about changing the above paragraph like this:

  If one of `-a`, `-s`, or `-u <key-id>` is passed, the command
-creates a 'tag' object, and requires a tag message.  Unless
+creates a 'tag' object called 'Annotated tag', and requires a tag 
message. Unless
  `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given, an editor is started for the user 
to type
  in the tag message.
> Also, I find the "release" vs.
> "random" distinction a bit misleading since both types of tag can refer to
> any object.

I can change it into something like these (using your suggestion below): "Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant for private or temporary object labels."

What do you think?
>  I also liked the direction of your earlier "command only
> consider annotated tags by default" phrasing.

I also think it would be helpful. We can write this after the previous sentence: "Most git commands only consider Annotated tags by default."

Show 16 quoted lines
> After reading the Tagging section of the Git Book[1] I came up with the
> following.  Feel free to modify it as you like, or ignore it completely:
>
> Tag objects (created with -a) are called annotated tags.  While a lightweight
> tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit object), an annotated
> tag contains the creation date, the tagger's name and e-mail, a tagging
> message, and can be signed and verified with GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG).  Most
> git commands only consider annotated tags by default.  In general lightweight
> tags are for private or temporary object labels, while annotated tags are
> meant to be permanent and/or published.  For example, an annotated tag is
> normally used to identify a release point.
>
> 		M.
>
> [1] http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Basics-Tagging
>

I took some inspiration but I think writing about what a tag object contains in the documentation is not useful at that point in the doc. What's important there is that user do understand the difference between Annotated and Lightweight tags.

I'll follow with a patch containing these modification I'm talking about, should be easier to comment.

Regards, Daniele

Daniele Segato· Jul 26, 2013, 08:46 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

 From 34fdcb56e5784699ffa327ebfcd2c5cd99b61d2d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:33:18 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user should use one in place of the other.

Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
---
  Documentation/git-tag.txt |    7 ++++++-
  1 file changed, 6 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
index 22894cb..5c6284e 100644
--- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
+++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
@@ -26,7 +26,7 @@ to delete, list or verify tags.
  Unless `-f` is given, the named tag must not yet exist.

  If one of `-a`, `-s`, or `-u <key-id>` is passed, the command
-creates a 'tag' object, and requires a tag message.  Unless
+creates a 'tag' object called 'Annotated tag', and requires a tag 
message. Unless
  `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given, an editor is started for the user 
to type
  in the tag message.

@@ -36,6 +36,11 @@ are absent, `-a` is implied.
  Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit 
object is
  created (i.e. a lightweight tag).

+'Annotated' and 'Lightweight' tags are not the same thing for git and 
you shouldn't
+mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight 
tags are
+meant for private or temporary object labels. Most git commands only 
consider
+Annotated tags by default.
+
  A GnuPG signed tag object will be created when `-s` or `-u
  <key-id>` is used.  When `-u <key-id>` is not used, the
  committer identity for the current user is used to find the

-- 
1.7.10.4
Marc Branchaud· Jul 26, 2013, 14:51 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 13-07-26 04:46 AM, Daniele Segato wrote:
> From 34fdcb56e5784699ffa327ebfcd2c5cd99b61d2d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:33:18 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

When sending a patch to the list it's not necessary to include these headers, as the git tools will extract them from the email itself.

Also, when sending a revision to a previously posted patch it's customary to include a revision number, e.g. "[PATCHv2]".

Show 18 quoted lines
> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
> should use one in place of the other.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> ---
>  Documentation/git-tag.txt |    7 ++++++-
>  1 file changed, 6 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> index 22894cb..5c6284e 100644
> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> @@ -26,7 +26,7 @@ to delete, list or verify tags.
>  Unless `-f` is given, the named tag must not yet exist.
> 
>  If one of `-a`, `-s`, or `-u <key-id>` is passed, the command
> -creates a 'tag' object, and requires a tag message.  Unless
> +creates a 'tag' object called 'Annotated tag', and requires a tag message.
1) Don't capitalize "annotated" -- it's not capitalized anywhere else in the
text.  The same goes for "lightweight".
2) I find the phrasing here awkward.  The important thing to convey is that
"annotated tag" is a synonym for "tag object".  The proposed text implies
that there can be other kinds of tag objects that are not annotated tags, but
I don't think that's true.  I've mulled over different ways of introducing
the "annotated tag" term here, but I can't come up with a succinct way to do
it.  I think it's better to just introduce the term later.
Show 15 quoted lines
> Unless
>  `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given, an editor is started for the user to type
>  in the tag message.
> 
> @@ -36,6 +36,11 @@ are absent, `-a` is implied.
>  Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit
> object is
>  created (i.e. a lightweight tag).
> 
> +'Annotated' and 'Lightweight' tags are not the same thing for git and you
> shouldn't
> +mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are
> +meant for private or temporary object labels. Most git commands only consider
> +Annotated tags by default.
> +
I'm sorry, but I feel this misses the mark.

It's redundant to say the tag types are not the same thing, since the fact that they have different names already implies that. Also, to me the admonition "you shouldn't mix them up" is just a scary warning that conveys no helpful information.

Furthermore, I think simply stating that the tag types are meant for particular uses without explaining why is too glib. Although it may be natural in your circumstances to think of the tag types rigidly, I do not think that's true for all git users and I don't think the documentation should assume there's a One True Way to use tags.

The text should give readers enough information to decide for themselves how they want to use the different types of tags. That's why I included the annotated tag's contents in my suggestion, so that readers could figure out which tag type best meets their needs.

What you've proposed is a step in the right direction, but I think you need to go further.

		M.
Daniele Segato· Jul 26, 2013, 17:19 UTC · re: Marc Branchaud · lore

Re: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/26/2013 04:51 PM, Marc Branchaud wrote:
Show 11 quoted lines
> On 13-07-26 04:46 AM, Daniele Segato wrote:
>>  From 34fdcb56e5784699ffa327ebfcd2c5cd99b61d2d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>> From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:33:18 +0200
>> Subject: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags
>
> When sending a patch to the list it's not necessary to include these headers,
> as the git tools will extract them from the email itself.
>
> Also, when sending a revision to a previously posted patch it's customary to
> include a revision number, e.g. "[PATCHv2]".
Thanks, I'll try to do the right thing with the next patch.

By the way which is your role in the community? Don't want to be rude, I just don't know who I'm talking about :) the documentation maintainer?

Thanks for the help anyway.
Show 13 quoted lines
>> diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> index 22894cb..5c6284e 100644
>> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> @@ -26,7 +26,7 @@ to delete, list or verify tags.
>>   Unless `-f` is given, the named tag must not yet exist.
>>
>>   If one of `-a`, `-s`, or `-u <key-id>` is passed, the command
>> -creates a 'tag' object, and requires a tag message.  Unless
>> +creates a 'tag' object called 'Annotated tag', and requires a tag message.
>
> 1) Don't capitalize "annotated" -- it's not capitalized anywhere else in the
> text.  The same goes for "lightweight".
Ok
Show 8 quoted lines
>
> 2) I find the phrasing here awkward.  The important thing to convey is that
> "annotated tag" is a synonym for "tag object".  The proposed text implies
> that there can be other kinds of tag objects that are not annotated tags, but
> I don't think that's true.  I've mulled over different ways of introducing
> the "annotated tag" term here, but I can't come up with a succinct way to do
> it.  I think it's better to just introduce the term later.
>
Ok, English is not my native language so no surprise it sound awkward ;)
I'll follow your suggestion here and move everything later.
Show 39 quoted lines
>> Unless
>>   `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given, an editor is started for the user to type
>>   in the tag message.
>>
>> @@ -36,6 +36,11 @@ are absent, `-a` is implied.
>>   Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit
>> object is
>>   created (i.e. a lightweight tag).
>>
>> +'Annotated' and 'Lightweight' tags are not the same thing for git and you
>> shouldn't
>> +mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are
>> +meant for private or temporary object labels. Most git commands only consider
>> +Annotated tags by default.
>> +
>
> I'm sorry, but I feel this misses the mark.
>
> It's redundant to say the tag types are not the same thing, since the fact
> that they have different names already implies that.  Also, to me the
> admonition "you shouldn't mix them up" is just a scary warning that conveys
> no helpful information.
>
> Furthermore, I think simply stating that the tag types are meant for
> particular uses without explaining why is too glib.  Although it may be
> natural in your circumstances to think of the tag types rigidly, I do not
> think that's true for all git users and I don't think the documentation
> should assume there's a One True Way to use tags.
>
> The text should give readers enough information to decide for themselves how
> they want to use the different types of tags.  That's why I included the
> annotated tag's contents in my suggestion, so that readers could figure out
> which tag type best meets their needs.
>
> What you've proposed is a step in the right direction, but I think you need
> to go further.
>
> 		M.
>

I tried to take into account everything you said to me and rewrite the patch, following this message.

Regards, Daniele

Daniele Segato· Jul 26, 2013, 17:33 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user should use one in place of the other.

Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
---
  Documentation/git-tag.txt |    9 +++++++++
  1 file changed, 9 insertions(+)
diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
index 22894cb..495eb71 100644
--- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
+++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
@@ -42,6 +42,15 @@ committer identity for the current user is used to 
find the
  GnuPG key for signing. 	The configuration variable `gpg.program`
  is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.

+The tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called 
'annotated' tags,
+they contains a creation date, the tagger name and e-mail, a tagging 
message
+and, eventually, the GNUPG signing and verification data. While a
+'lightweight' tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit object).
+
+'Annotated' tag are meant for release while 'lightweight' tags are meant
+for private or temporary object labels, thus most git commands ignore
+lightweight tags by default.
+

  OPTIONS
  -------

-- 
1.7.10.4
Jeff King· Jul 26, 2013, 19:06 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 07:33:01PM +0200, Daniele Segato wrote:
> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
> should use one in place of the other.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>

The intent of your patch seems reasonable to me. There are a few minor language and typographical mistakes, and the patch itself is whitespace-damaged.

I also do not know that it is accurate to say "most git commands ignore lightweight tags". It is really only "naming" ones like "git describe".

Here is a re-send of your patch with the fixups I would recommend.
-- >8 --
From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
Subject: [PATCH] docs/git-tag: explain lightweight versus annotated tags

Stress the difference between the two with a suggestion on when the user should use one in place of the other.

Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
Signed-off-by: Jeff King <peff@peff.net>
---
 Documentation/git-tag.txt | 11 +++++++++++
 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+)
diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
index 22894cb..c418c44 100644
--- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
+++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
@@ -42,6 +42,17 @@ is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
 GnuPG key for signing. 	The configuration variable `gpg.program`
 is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
 
+Tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called "annotated"
+tags; they contain a creation date, the tagger name and e-mail, a
+tagging message, and an optional GnuPG signature. Whereas a
+"lightweight" tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit
+object).
+
+Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant
+for private or temporary object labels. For this reason, some git
+commands for naming objects (like `git describe`) will ignore
+lightweight tags by default.
+
 
 OPTIONS
 -------

-- 
1.8.3.rc1.30.gff0fb75
Jonathan Nieder· Jul 26, 2013, 19:36 UTC · re: Jeff King · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

Jeff King wrote:
Show 16 quoted lines
> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> @@ -42,6 +42,17 @@ is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>  GnuPG key for signing. 	The configuration variable `gpg.program`
>  is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>  
> +Tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called "annotated"
> +tags; they contain a creation date, the tagger name and e-mail, a
> +tagging message, and an optional GnuPG signature. Whereas a
> +"lightweight" tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit
> +object).
> +
> +Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant
> +for private or temporary object labels. For this reason, some git
> +commands for naming objects (like `git describe`) will ignore
> +lightweight tags by default.
Very readable, and I think this is a good start.
Reviewed-by: Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>

Eventually the description section should probably be tweaked to start by explaining what the command is actually for. ;-)

Daniele Segato· Jul 29, 2013, 18:02 UTC · re: Jonathan Nieder · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/26/2013 09:36 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
> Eventually the description section should probably be tweaked to start
> by explaining what the command is actually for. ;-)

Elaborating from this suggestion you gave me I tried to rewrite/rearrange the description moving things around a little.

Here's what I've come out with, what do you think about it?

DESCRIPTION -----------

A tag is a non-mutable reference name (in `refs/tags/`) to an object (usually a commit).

If one of `-d/-l/-v` options is given the command will delete, list or verify tags.

If one of `-a`, `-s`, or `-u <key-id>` is passed, the command creates both the reference and a 'tag' object containing a creation date, the tagger name and e-mail, a tag message and an optional GnuPG signature. Unless `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given, an editor is started for the user to type in the tag message.

Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit object is created (i.e. a lightweight tag).

Unless `-f` is given, the named tag must not yet exist.

If `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given and `-a`, `-s`, and `-u <key-id>` are absent, `-a` is implied.

A GnuPG signed tag object will be created when `-s` or `-u <key-id>` is used. When `-u <key-id>` is not used, the committer identity for the current user is used to find the GnuPG key for signing. The configuration variable `gpg.program` is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.

Tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called "annotated" tags; whereas a "lightweight" tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit object).

Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant for private or temporary object labels. For this reason, some git commands for naming objects (like `git describe`) will ignore lightweight tags by default.

-- Cheers, Daniele Segato

Daniele Segato· Aug 7, 2013, 12:32 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/29/2013 08:02 PM, Daniele Segato wrote:
Show 49 quoted lines
> On 07/26/2013 09:36 PM, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
>> Eventually the description section should probably be tweaked to start
>> by explaining what the command is actually for. ;-)
>
> Elaborating from this suggestion you gave me I tried to
> rewrite/rearrange the description moving things around a little.
>
> Here's what I've come out with, what do you think about it?
>
>
>
> DESCRIPTION
> -----------
>
> A tag is a non-mutable reference name (in `refs/tags/`) to an object
> (usually a commit).
>
> If one of `-d/-l/-v` options is given the command will delete, list or
> verify tags.
>
> If one of `-a`, `-s`, or `-u <key-id>` is passed, the command
> creates both the reference and a 'tag' object containing a creation
> date, the tagger name and e-mail, a tag message and an optional GnuPG
> signature.  Unless
> `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given, an editor is started for the user to
> type in the tag message.
>
> Otherwise just a tag reference for the SHA-1 object name of the commit
> object is created (i.e. a lightweight tag).
>
> Unless `-f` is given, the named tag must not yet exist.
>
> If `-m <msg>` or `-F <file>` is given and `-a`, `-s`, and `-u <key-id>`
> are absent, `-a` is implied.
>
> A GnuPG signed tag object will be created when `-s` or `-u
> <key-id>` is used.  When `-u <key-id>` is not used, the
> committer identity for the current user is used to find the
> GnuPG key for signing.  The configuration variable `gpg.program`
> is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>
> Tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called "annotated"
> tags; whereas a "lightweight" tag is simply a name for an object
> (usually a commit object).
>
> Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant
> for private or temporary object labels. For this reason, some git
> commands for naming objects (like `git describe`) will ignore
> lightweight tags by default.
I suppose there's no interest in this anymore

thanks anyway, Regards, Daniele Segato

Marc Branchaud· Jul 26, 2013, 21:13 UTC · re: Jeff King · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 13-07-26 03:06 PM, Jeff King wrote:
Show 15 quoted lines
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 07:33:01PM +0200, Daniele Segato wrote:
> 
>> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
>> should use one in place of the other.
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> 
> The intent of your patch seems reasonable to me. There are a few minor
> language and typographical mistakes, and the patch itself is
> whitespace-damaged.
> 
> I also do not know that it is accurate to say "most git commands ignore
> lightweight tags". It is really only "naming" ones like "git describe".
> 
> Here is a re-send of your patch with the fixups I would recommend.
I'm happy with Peff's version.
Reviewed-by: Marc Branchaud <marcnarc@xiplink.com>
(Daniele, don't feel put off because Jonathan & I are accepting Peff's text.
 If you think it still needs improving please speak up!)
		M.
Show 36 quoted lines
> -- >8 --
> From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> Subject: [PATCH] docs/git-tag: explain lightweight versus annotated tags
> 
> Stress the difference between the two with a suggestion on
> when the user should use one in place of the other.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> Signed-off-by: Jeff King <peff@peff.net>
> ---
>  Documentation/git-tag.txt | 11 +++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 11 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> index 22894cb..c418c44 100644
> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> @@ -42,6 +42,17 @@ is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>  GnuPG key for signing. 	The configuration variable `gpg.program`
>  is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>  
> +Tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called "annotated"
> +tags; they contain a creation date, the tagger name and e-mail, a
> +tagging message, and an optional GnuPG signature. Whereas a
> +"lightweight" tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit
> +object).
> +
> +Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant
> +for private or temporary object labels. For this reason, some git
> +commands for naming objects (like `git describe`) will ignore
> +lightweight tags by default.
> +
>  
>  OPTIONS
>  -------
>
Junio C Hamano· Jul 29, 2013, 15:04 UTC · re: Marc Branchaud · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

Marc Branchaud <marcnarc@xiplink.com> writes:
Show 25 quoted lines
> On 13-07-26 03:06 PM, Jeff King wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 07:33:01PM +0200, Daniele Segato wrote:
>> 
>>> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
>>> should use one in place of the other.
>>>
>>> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>> 
>> The intent of your patch seems reasonable to me. There are a few minor
>> language and typographical mistakes, and the patch itself is
>> whitespace-damaged.
>> 
>> I also do not know that it is accurate to say "most git commands ignore
>> lightweight tags". It is really only "naming" ones like "git describe".
>> 
>> Here is a re-send of your patch with the fixups I would recommend.
>
> I'm happy with Peff's version.
>
> Reviewed-by: Marc Branchaud <marcnarc@xiplink.com>
>
> (Daniele, don't feel put off because Jonathan & I are accepting Peff's text.
>  If you think it still needs improving please speak up!)
>
> 		M.
Thank you all.  Will apply.
Show 37 quoted lines
>
>> -- >8 --
>> From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>> Subject: [PATCH] docs/git-tag: explain lightweight versus annotated tags
>> 
>> Stress the difference between the two with a suggestion on
>> when the user should use one in place of the other.
>> 
>> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>> Signed-off-by: Jeff King <peff@peff.net>
>> ---
>>  Documentation/git-tag.txt | 11 +++++++++++
>>  1 file changed, 11 insertions(+)
>> 
>> diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> index 22894cb..c418c44 100644
>> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
>> @@ -42,6 +42,17 @@ is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>>  GnuPG key for signing. 	The configuration variable `gpg.program`
>>  is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>>  
>> +Tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called "annotated"
>> +tags; they contain a creation date, the tagger name and e-mail, a
>> +tagging message, and an optional GnuPG signature. Whereas a
>> +"lightweight" tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit
>> +object).
>> +
>> +Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant
>> +for private or temporary object labels. For this reason, some git
>> +commands for naming objects (like `git describe`) will ignore
>> +lightweight tags by default.
>> +
>>  
>>  OPTIONS
>>  -------
>>
Daniele Segato· Jul 29, 2013, 18:20 UTC · re: Junio C Hamano · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/29/2013 05:04 PM, Junio C Hamano wrote:
Show 26 quoted lines
> Marc Branchaud <marcnarc@xiplink.com> writes:
>
>> On 13-07-26 03:06 PM, Jeff King wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 07:33:01PM +0200, Daniele Segato wrote:
>>>
>>>> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
>>>> should use one in place of the other.
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> The intent of your patch seems reasonable to me. There are a few minor
>>> language and typographical mistakes, and the patch itself is
>>> whitespace-damaged.
>>>
>>> I also do not know that it is accurate to say "most git commands ignore
>>> lightweight tags". It is really only "naming" ones like "git describe".
>>>
>>> Here is a re-send of your patch with the fixups I would recommend.
>>
>> I'm happy with Peff's version.
>>
>> Reviewed-by: Marc Branchaud <marcnarc@xiplink.com>
>>
>> (Daniele, don't feel put off because Jonathan & I are accepting Peff's text.
>>   If you think it still needs improving please speak up!)
>>

I'm not feeling putting off. I thank you for the help you gave me. Hopefully I'll be able to provide a better patch next time.

>> 		M.
>
> Thank you all.  Will apply.
>

I'm probably too late, I did proposed another version of the page tweaking all the description part in response to Jonathan Nieder and re-using the Jeff King proposition.

I've been busy in the last days and couldn't reply before now.

I'll understand if you don't like it and don't want to lose more time on this.

Regards, Daniele Segato

Daniele Segato· Jul 27, 2013, 10:39 UTC · re: Jeff King · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/26/2013 09:06 PM, Jeff King wrote:
Show 10 quoted lines
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 07:33:01PM +0200, Daniele Segato wrote:
>
>> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the user
>> should use one in place of the other.
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>
> The intent of your patch seems reasonable to me. There are a few minor
> language and typographical mistakes, and the patch itself is
> whitespace-damaged.
Hi Jeff,
thanks for the feedback, very appreciated.
But I don't understand what's wrong with the whitespaces.
Can you explain to me what's wrong and how I can avoid the issue?

I use thunderbird in text mode to send emails, should I use something else? what?

Show 6 quoted lines
>
> I also do not know that it is accurate to say "most git commands ignore
> lightweight tags". It is really only "naming" ones like "git describe".
>
> Here is a re-send of your patch with the fixups I would recommend.
>
Thanks, it's obviously better.

I'll send this new version as soon as you or someone else explain me how to fix the whitespace damage.

Show 36 quoted lines
> -- >8 --
> From: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> Subject: [PATCH] docs/git-tag: explain lightweight versus annotated tags
>
> Stress the difference between the two with a suggestion on
> when the user should use one in place of the other.
>
> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
> Signed-off-by: Jeff King <peff@peff.net>
> ---
>   Documentation/git-tag.txt | 11 +++++++++++
>   1 file changed, 11 insertions(+)
>
> diff --git a/Documentation/git-tag.txt b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> index 22894cb..c418c44 100644
> --- a/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> +++ b/Documentation/git-tag.txt
> @@ -42,6 +42,17 @@ is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>   GnuPG key for signing. 	The configuration variable `gpg.program`
>   is used to specify custom GnuPG binary.
>
> +Tag objects (created with `-a`, `s`, or `-u`) are called "annotated"
> +tags; they contain a creation date, the tagger name and e-mail, a
> +tagging message, and an optional GnuPG signature. Whereas a
> +"lightweight" tag is simply a name for an object (usually a commit
> +object).
> +
> +Annotated tags are meant for release while lightweight tags are meant
> +for private or temporary object labels. For this reason, some git
> +commands for naming objects (like `git describe`) will ignore
> +lightweight tags by default.
> +
>
>   OPTIONS
>   -------
>
Philip Oakley· Jul 27, 2013, 11:26 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

From: "Daniele Segato" <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
Show 24 quoted lines
> On 07/26/2013 09:06 PM, Jeff King wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 07:33:01PM +0200, Daniele Segato wrote:
>>
>>> stress the difference between the two with suggestion on when the 
>>> user
>>> should use one in place of the other.
>>>
>>> Signed-off-by: Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com>
>>
>> The intent of your patch seems reasonable to me. There are a few 
>> minor
>> language and typographical mistakes, and the patch itself is
>> whitespace-damaged.
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> thanks for the feedback, very appreciated.
>
> But I don't understand what's wrong with the whitespaces.
>
> Can you explain to me what's wrong and how I can avoid the issue?
>
> I use thunderbird in text mode to send emails, should I use something 
> else? what?

Try 'git format-patch' and 'git send-email'. The format-patch man page even has a note about Thunderbird corruptions.

Philip
Show 15 quoted lines
>
>>
>> I also do not know that it is accurate to say "most git commands 
>> ignore
>> lightweight tags". It is really only "naming" ones like "git 
>> describe".
>>
>> Here is a re-send of your patch with the fixups I would recommend.
>>
>
> Thanks, it's obviously better.
>
> I'll send this new version as soon as you or someone else explain me 
> how to fix the whitespace damage.
>
[snip]
Stefan Beller· Jul 27, 2013, 11:45 UTC · re: Philip Oakley · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/27/2013 01:26 PM, Philip Oakley wrote:
Show 5 quoted lines
> Try 'git format-patch' and 'git send-email'. The format-patch man page
> even has a note about Thunderbird corruptions.
> 
> Philip
>

Well I use Thunderbird as well for regular communication except for sending patches. The kernel documentation has also some words about Thunderbird https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/Documentation/email-clients.txt

Given so many steps, I also configured git send-email, which makes sure that patches are uncorrupted. For gmail add these lines to your ~/.gitconfig

[sendemail]
        from = Your Name <emailaddress@gmail.com>
        smtpserver = /usr/bin/msmtp
        smtpuser = emailaddress
        smtpencryption = tls
        chainreplyto = false
        confirm = auto

Then you'd need to have msmtp installed and have the following in the file ~/.msmtprc

# Example for a user configuration file # Set default values for all following accounts. defaults tls on tls_trust_file /usr/share/ncat/ca-bundle.crt logfile ~/.msmtp.log # My email service account gmail host smtp.gmail.com port 587 from emailaddress@gmail.com auth on user emailaddress@gmail.com password mysecret account default : gmail

I think it would also work without having git relying on msmtp by now, but I'd be too lazy to change my existing working setup.

Stefan
Daniele Segato· Jul 29, 2013, 18:16 UTC · re: Stefan Beller · lore

Re: [PATCHv3] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/27/2013 01:45 PM, Stefan Beller wrote:
Show 18 quoted lines
> On 07/27/2013 01:26 PM, Philip Oakley wrote:
>
>> Try 'git format-patch' and 'git send-email'. The format-patch man page
>> even has a note about Thunderbird corruptions.
>>
>> Philip
>>
>
> Well I use Thunderbird as well for regular communication except for
> sending patches.
> The kernel documentation has also some words about Thunderbird
> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/Documentation/email-clients.txt
>
> Given so many steps, I also configured git send-email, which makes
> sure that patches are uncorrupted.
> For gmail add these lines to your ~/.gitconfig
>
> [sendemail]
[snip]
>
> Then you'd need to have msmtp installed and have the following
> in the file ~/.msmtprc
[snip]
>
> I think it would also work without having git relying on msmtp by now,
> but I'd be too lazy to change my existing working setup.
>
Hi Paolo, Philip, Stefan,

thank you, you've been very kind. I think I've set it up, I'll try with the next patch, if any!

Regards, Daniele Segato

Marc Branchaud· Jul 26, 2013, 21:13 UTC · re: Daniele Segato · lore

Re: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 13-07-26 01:19 PM, Daniele Segato wrote:
> 
> By the way which is your role in the community?
> Don't want to be rude, I just don't know who I'm talking about :) the
> documentation maintainer?
I'm just a git user and (very) occasional contributor.

There's not much structure to the git community. Anyone who wants git to change can post a patch (or patch series) to this list. The patch can touch any area of the code, and it's considered good manners to CC whoever last touched the part(s) of the code being patched.

The patch is discussed and revised as needed, and eventually the patch
thread's participants arrive at a consensus as to whether or not the patch
should become a part of git.  If the patch is accepted the git maintainer
(Junio C. Hamano) shepherds the patch through git's release process.  See
this note:
	http://git-blame.blogspot.ca/p/a-note-from-maintainer.html
for more about that and other aspects of the git development community.
		M.
Daniele Segato· Jul 29, 2013, 18:21 UTC · re: Marc Branchaud · lore

Re: [PATCH] git-tag man: when to use lightweight or annotated tags

On 07/26/2013 11:13 PM, Marc Branchaud wrote:
Show 23 quoted lines
> On 13-07-26 01:19 PM, Daniele Segato wrote:
>>
>> By the way which is your role in the community?
>> Don't want to be rude, I just don't know who I'm talking about :) the
>> documentation maintainer?
>
> I'm just a git user and (very) occasional contributor.
>
> There's not much structure to the git community.  Anyone who wants git to
> change can post a patch (or patch series) to this list.  The patch can touch
> any area of the code, and it's considered good manners to CC whoever last
> touched the part(s) of the code being patched.
>
> The patch is discussed and revised as needed, and eventually the patch
> thread's participants arrive at a consensus as to whether or not the patch
> should become a part of git.  If the patch is accepted the git maintainer
> (Junio C. Hamano) shepherds the patch through git's release process.  See
> this note:
> 	http://git-blame.blogspot.ca/p/a-note-from-maintainer.html
> for more about that and other aspects of the git development community.
>
> 		M.
>

Thanks. That helps a bit in understanding how I fit into the ml!

Cheers, Daniele Segato

Daniele Segato· Jul 25, 2013, 13:48 UTC · re: Junio C Hamano · lore

Re: git tag usability issue: Lightweight vs Annotated confusion for the end user (ex. git describe default)

On 07/24/2013 10:34 PM, Junio C Hamano wrote:
Show 12 quoted lines
> Daniele Segato <daniele.segato@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Annotated and Lightweight tags are not the same thing
>> for git and you shouldn't mix them up. Annotated tags are meant for
>> release while lightweight tags are meant to tag random commits.
>
> Nicely explained.
>
> This is one of those "we who worked on Git (not worked "with" Git)
> for a long time _know_ it and do not need it to be explained, and we
> didn't spot that it is not explained in the documentation for new
> people."
Good!
Any change in adding an option to filter tags list by annotated only?
>
> Care to roll a documentation patch (and get a commit count for
> yourself ;-)?

I tried, just sent the patch, hopefully I managed to follow the guide I found here: http://repo.or.cz/w/git.git?a=blob;f=Documentation/SubmittingPatches;hb=HEAD

As you suggested I removed the "title" line and the reference to git describe default.

If I did something wrong please explain me what and I'll fix it
>
> Thanks.
You're Welcome :-)

Cheers, Daniele Segato

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