threads / discuss / 31945

Workflow for templates?

Subject: Workflow for templates?

## tl;dr

12 messages between Oct 25, 2012 and Nov 10, 2012.

replies: 11people: 5as markdown or json

Josef Wolf· Oct 25, 2012, 21:15 UTC · lore
Hello everybody,
I am looking for a setup where teplates can be handled easily.

For a better explanation of what I'm trying to achieve, I use the apache httpd project as an example.

Apache httpd provides an extensively commented httpd.conf template, which users can use as a starting point for their own customization.

Tha's fine so far. But I'd like this to work in both directions:
Downstream: When the upstream template has new changes, I can merge them into
my local branch. Conflicts will remind me that I have to review my
customization.
Upstream: Within the customized working copy, I implement a new module or
change an existing one (e.g. mod_ssl). While implementing the new feature, I
add/modify my _customized_ template. When I'm happy with the new feature, I'd
like to rewrite the localized customization into something generic and send it
along with the implementation of the new feature to the upstream generic
template. My localized customization should not get lost during the
process, of course.

One more important aspect: since the customized template might contain confidential information, those bits should have a hard time to propagate to the upstream repository.

I guess the downstream part can be done by a vendor branch. But I have a hard time to find a proper workflow for the upstream part.

Any ideas?
Enrico Weigelt· Oct 27, 2012, 18:45 UTC · re: Josef Wolf · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

Hi,
<snip>

I'd suggest a 3 level branch hierachy (IOW: the lower level is rebased ontop of the next higher level):

* #0: upstream branch
* #1: generic local maintenance branch
* #2: per-instance cutomization branches

Normal additions go to the lowest level #2. When you've got some generic commit, you propagate it to the next level (cherry-pick) and rebase layer #2 ontop of it. Now you can send your layer #1 to upstream for integration.

When upstream updated his branch, you simply rebase #1 ontop of it, do your checks etc, then proceed to rebasing #3.

You could also introduce more intermediate layers (eg when you've got different groups of similar instance that share certain changes)

cu
-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards 

Enrico Weigelt 
VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH 
Head Of Development 

Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin
Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20
Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59

enrico.weigelt@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de 
Josef Wolf· Oct 31, 2012, 10:44 UTC · re: Enrico Weigelt · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 08:45:45PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
Show 17 quoted lines
> I'd suggest a 3 level branch hierachy (IOW: the lower level
> is rebased ontop of the next higher level):
> 
> * #0: upstream branch
> * #1: generic local maintenance branch
> * #2: per-instance cutomization branches
> 
> Normal additions go to the lowest level #2. When you've got
> some generic commit, you propagate it to the next level
> (cherry-pick) and rebase layer #2 ontop of it.
> Now you can send your layer #1 to upstream for integration.
> 
> When upstream updated his branch, you simply rebase #1
> ontop of it, do your checks etc, then proceed to rebasing #3.
> 
> You could also introduce more intermediate layers (eg when you've
> got different groups of similar instance that share certain changes)
Thanks for the suggestion, Enrico!

I am somewhat unsure whether it would work this way. After all, there seems to be an unbreakable rule with git: never rebase published branches.

Thus, once I have published my work to other people who also need to work on the same localizations as I do, I have no longer the option of rebasing to get rid of the localizations and put the generic template stuff for upstream.

I guess, my concern is because I have not yet fully understood the problems of rebasing, and how to recover from them.

Maybe I should try to explain the problem in terms of repository hierarchy. Let's assume, there is this hierarchy of repositories:

upstream: central repository, containing the generic template
foo-site: repository for site foo. Here we have localizations for a specific
          administrative entity named foo (say, google).
          This is where clones for production are made from, and production
          boxes pull from here to be kept up-to-date.
foo-prodA: A clone of foo-site, put in production and pulling from a specific
           branch on foo-site to receive released, blessed updates.
foo-prodB: Similar to foo-prodA, but on another box.
           
foo-devA: A clone of foo-site to make development, releases, and whatever for
          foo.
foo-devB: One more clone of foo-site, Developer B is working here.

Then, we might have more administrative entities: bar-site, bar-prodA, bar-prodB, bar-devA, bar-devB, for example. This might be Microsoft, for example.

Further, foo-devA might be the same person as bar-devA.

So when foo-devA pulls from foo-devB, then foo-devB will create problems when he rebases after that pull.

I think I have some kind of misunderstanding here, but I just can't figure what it is.

Maybe I should try to explain the problem in yet other words:

What I am trying to achieve, is to extend the workflow from development to deployment across multiple administrative entities. As a picture:

  upstream     (templates only).
     ^
     |
     v
  development  (configured, might contain experimental changes)
     ^
     |
     v
  deployment   (configured)

This workflow should not stop at administrative borders. Just replace foo by google and bar by Microsoft to get an idea of what I am trying to achieve.

Josef Wolf· Nov 6, 2012, 19:50 UTC · re: Josef Wolf · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

No suggestions on this one?
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:44:04AM +0100, Josef Wolf wrote:
Show 62 quoted lines
> I am somewhat unsure whether it would work this way. After all, there seems to
> be an unbreakable rule with git: never rebase published branches.
> 
> Thus, once I have published my work to other people who also need to work on
> the same localizations as I do, I have no longer the option of rebasing to get
> rid of the localizations and put the generic template stuff for upstream.
> 
> I guess, my concern is because I have not yet fully understood the problems of
> rebasing, and how to recover from them.
> 
> Maybe I should try to explain the problem in terms of repository
> hierarchy. Let's assume, there is this hierarchy of repositories:
> 
> upstream: central repository, containing the generic template
> 
> foo-site: repository for site foo. Here we have localizations for a specific
>           administrative entity named foo (say, google).
>           This is where clones for production are made from, and production
>           boxes pull from here to be kept up-to-date.
> 
> foo-prodA: A clone of foo-site, put in production and pulling from a specific
>            branch on foo-site to receive released, blessed updates.
> foo-prodB: Similar to foo-prodA, but on another box.
>            
> foo-devA: A clone of foo-site to make development, releases, and whatever for
>           foo.
> foo-devB: One more clone of foo-site, Developer B is working here.
> 
> Then, we might have more administrative entities: bar-site, bar-prodA,
> bar-prodB, bar-devA, bar-devB, for example. This might be Microsoft, for
> example.
> 
> Further, foo-devA might be the same person as bar-devA.
> 
> So when foo-devA pulls from foo-devB, then foo-devB will create problems when
> he rebases after that pull.
> 
> I think I have some kind of misunderstanding here, but I just can't figure
> what it is.
> 
> 
> Maybe I should try to explain the problem in yet other words:
> 
> What I am trying to achieve, is to extend the workflow from development to
> deployment across multiple administrative entities. As a picture:
> 
>   upstream     (templates only).
>      ^
>      |
>      v
>   development  (configured, might contain experimental changes)
>      ^
>      |
>      v
>   deployment   (configured)
> 
> This workflow should not stop at administrative borders. Just replace foo by
> google and bar by Microsoft to get an idea of what I am trying to achieve.
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Pyeron, Jason J CTR (US)· Nov 6, 2012, 20:21 UTC · re: Josef Wolf · lore

RE: Workflow for templates?

Maybe I lost sight of your problem. Can you give a specific example of where "it" does not work?
Show 92 quoted lines
> -----Original Message-----
> From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:git-owner@vger.kernel.org] On
> Behalf Of Josef Wolf
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 2:51 PM
> To: git@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: Workflow for templates?
> 
> No suggestions on this one?
> 
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:44:04AM +0100, Josef Wolf wrote:
> > I am somewhat unsure whether it would work this way. After all, there
> seems to
> > be an unbreakable rule with git: never rebase published branches.
> >
> > Thus, once I have published my work to other people who also need to
> work on
> > the same localizations as I do, I have no longer the option of
> rebasing to get
> > rid of the localizations and put the generic template stuff for
> upstream.
> >
> > I guess, my concern is because I have not yet fully understood the
> problems of
> > rebasing, and how to recover from them.
> >
> > Maybe I should try to explain the problem in terms of repository
> > hierarchy. Let's assume, there is this hierarchy of repositories:
> >
> > upstream: central repository, containing the generic template
> >
> > foo-site: repository for site foo. Here we have localizations for a
> specific
> >           administrative entity named foo (say, google).
> >           This is where clones for production are made from, and
> production
> >           boxes pull from here to be kept up-to-date.
> >
> > foo-prodA: A clone of foo-site, put in production and pulling from a
> specific
> >            branch on foo-site to receive released, blessed updates.
> > foo-prodB: Similar to foo-prodA, but on another box.
> >
> > foo-devA: A clone of foo-site to make development, releases, and
> whatever for
> >           foo.
> > foo-devB: One more clone of foo-site, Developer B is working here.
> >
> > Then, we might have more administrative entities: bar-site, bar-
> prodA,
> > bar-prodB, bar-devA, bar-devB, for example. This might be Microsoft,
> for
> > example.
> >
> > Further, foo-devA might be the same person as bar-devA.
> >
> > So when foo-devA pulls from foo-devB, then foo-devB will create
> problems when
> > he rebases after that pull.
> >
> > I think I have some kind of misunderstanding here, but I just can't
> figure
> > what it is.
> >
> >
> > Maybe I should try to explain the problem in yet other words:
> >
> > What I am trying to achieve, is to extend the workflow from
> development to
> > deployment across multiple administrative entities. As a picture:
> >
> >   upstream     (templates only).
> >      ^
> >      |
> >      v
> >   development  (configured, might contain experimental changes)
> >      ^
> >      |
> >      v
> >   deployment   (configured)
> >
> > This workflow should not stop at administrative borders. Just replace
> foo by
> > google and bar by Microsoft to get an idea of what I am trying to
> achieve.
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Josef Wolf· Nov 6, 2012, 21:07 UTC · re: Pyeron, Jason J CTR (US) · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 08:21:25PM +0000, Pyeron, Jason J CTR (US) wrote:
> Maybe I lost sight of your problem. Can you give a specific example of where "it" does not work?

I guess it's _me_ who's lost. I can't figure how this is supposed to work. Maybe you have an example?

Holger Hellmuth (IKS)· Nov 7, 2012, 16:03 UTC · re: Josef Wolf · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

Am 06.11.2012 22:07, schrieb Josef Wolf:
Show 5 quoted lines
> On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 08:21:25PM +0000, Pyeron, Jason J CTR (US) wrote:
>> Maybe I lost sight of your problem. Can you give a specific example of where "it" does not work?
>
> I guess it's _me_ who's lost. I can't figure how this is supposed to
> work. Maybe you have an example?

Let me ask a different question: What is wrong with cherry-picking downstream changes to your upstream branch? Without rebasing it to downstream.

That might mean there is a rather useless merge downstream later on, but that's the price you pay for not doing the change in a development branch.

Enrico Weigelt· Nov 10, 2012, 07:27 UTC · re: Holger Hellmuth (IKS) · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

> Let me ask a different question: What is wrong with cherry-picking
> downstream changes to your upstream branch? Without rebasing it to
> downstream.

Naah, dont rebase the upstream ontop of downstream - this doenst make any sense (yeah, my devs sometimes doing exatly this wong ;-o).

Instead, as you just said, cherry-pick the good commits into your upstream branch and rebase your downstreams ontop of that. (doesnt make any difference if this is done by different people or in different administrative domains).

> That might mean there is a rather useless merge downstream later on,
> but that's the price you pay for not doing the change in a development
> branch.

That's one of the things rebase is for: not having your history filled up with merges at all, but always have your local cutomizations added ontop of the current upstream.

By the way: I'm also using this hierachy for package maintenance to different target distros:

   upstream branch
         |
         |----> upstream release tag X.Y.Z
         |
        \ /
   bugfix branch (maint-X-Y-Z) => general (eg. distro-agnostig) fixes go here
         |
         |-----> maintenance release tag X.Y.Z.A
         |
        \ /
   dist branch (mydist-X-Y-Z) => distro-specific customizations (eg.
         |                       packaging control files, etc) go here
         |------> dist package release tags X.Y.Z.A-B

Usually I do quick hotfixes in the dist branch (and assigning new dist version number), then copy the dist branch into some topic-branch, rebase into latest bugfix branch, cherry-pick the interesting commit(s) into the bugfix branch. When I do a new bugfix release (from by bugfix branch), I rebase the dist branch ontop the latest bugfix release tag, fix dist-package version numbers and run the dist-specific build and testing pipeline.

Here's some example for it: https://github.com/vnc-biz/redmine-core
cu
-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards 

Enrico Weigelt 
VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH 
Head Of Development 

Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin
Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20
Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59

enrico.weigelt@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de 
Enrico Weigelt· Nov 10, 2012, 07:13 UTC · re: Josef Wolf · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

> I am somewhat unsure whether it would work this way. After all, there
> seems to
> be an unbreakable rule with git: never rebase published branches.

I dont see a big problem if you just tell the downstreams to rebase instead of merge downwards.

That's eg. my default approach for handling things like local customizations. The fine thing here is that you'll always have a clear separation between upstream development and your customizations.

Let's say, you have once forked at release tag v1.2.3, added 3 customization commits and later rebase onto v1.2.4, you'll still have your 3 customization commits ontop of the upstream release. With merge, you'll get more and more merge commits mixed later coming customizations, and a migh higher chance of repeating conflicts.

I'd suggest some general rules:
* strict branch hierachy
* downstreams always rebase instead of merge
* probably use --onto rebase
* development is always happening in topic-branches, that will be
  rebased before merge into their upstream --> fast-forward only
> Maybe I should try to explain the problem in terms of repository
> hierarchy. Let's assume, there is this hierarchy of repositories:

Let's talk about branches instead - repos are just containers for branches (and tags, etc). If all people are practically in the same administrative domain (or sort of), you can even use one single repo for that (not counting developer's and target system's local clones).

Show 8 quoted lines
> upstream: central repository, containing the generic template
> 
> foo-site: repository for site foo. Here we have localizations for a
> specific
>           administrative entity named foo (say, google).
>           This is where clones for production are made from, and
>           production
>           boxes pull from here to be kept up-to-date.

Only the non-customized boxes will pull from here - if there's any bit that needs to be changed, add separate branches for them.

And "pull" always means rebase.

When a new upstream release comes out (and is properly validated), it will be rebased ontop of that.

> foo-devA: A clone of foo-site to make development, releases, and
> whatever for foo.
> foo-devB: One more clone of foo-site, Developer B is working here.

Developers should use topic branches, which are regularily rebased ontop of their upstream, especially before commit and final validation.

> Further, foo-devA might be the same person as bar-devA.

He'll use separate branches anyways. Everything else is just a matter of proper naming scheme.

For example, if you're using a central (bare) repository (again: not counting the developer's locl clones), you could use something like an <site>+"/" branch name prefix.

By the way: you really should use non-conflicting tag names (eg. adding some <site>+"/" or <site>+"-" prefix), otherwise you'll easiy run into conflicts, because per default retrieved and local tags will all be in some namespace - you'll probably dont like to set up separate namespaces for individual remotes (which is quite easy to forget ;-o). Better consider tag names to be really global.

> So when foo-devA pulls from foo-devB, then foo-devB will create
> problems when he rebases after that pull.

pull (or probably: remote update) is different from merge or rebase essentially, pull is a combination of remote update and an automatic merge from or rebase onto (depending on the configuration) the coresponding upstream branch.

Show 18 quoted lines
> What I am trying to achieve, is to extend the workflow from
> development to
> deployment across multiple administrative entities. As a picture:
> 
>   upstream     (templates only).
>      ^
>      |
>      v
>   development  (configured, might contain experimental changes)
>      ^
>      |
>      v
>   deployment   (configured)
> 
> This workflow should not stop at administrative borders. Just replace
> foo by
> google and bar by Microsoft to get an idea of what I am trying to
> achieve.
We're talking about two entirely different things here:
a) repositories: container that hold references to histories
   (branches, tags, etc)
b) branches and their semantic releations
Repositories:

As git is fully distributed, it doesnt really matter where repositories are. Developers (and other parties accessing the code) will most likely have their own local clone. But "clone of X" means nothing more than just happens to have some remote attachment to repo X.

So, the semantics of
    git clone /path/to/my/funny-project
is the same like:
    ( git init funny-project && \
        cd cd funny-project && \
        git remote add origin /path/to/my/funny-project && \
        git remote update origin && \
        git checkout origin/master -b master )
So, let's look at the individual steps:
   #1: git init funny-project
   --> ( mkdir funny-project && cd funny-dir && git init )
   --> creates an empty repository
   #2: git remote add origin /path/to/my/funny-project
   --> configures an remote called "origin" with url "/path/to/my/funnly-project"
       and confgures it to sync the remote-side's references from refs/heads/*
       to locally refs/remotes/origin/*, and remote-side's refs/tags/* to
       locally refs/tags (without overwriting existing tag references)
   #3: git remote update origin
   --> do the actual syncing from remote "origin", get the remote ref list,
       download all yet objects (that are required for the refs to be synced)
       and adds/updates the refs into the according target namespaces
       (BTW: if a branch was removed on remote side, the local copy in
       refs/remotes/<remote-name>/* wont be deleted - you'll need to call
       git remote prune <remote-name> for that)
   #4: git checkout origin/master -b master
   --> copies the current refs/remotes/origin/master ref to refs/heads/master
       and checks out that new local branch (IOW: sets the refs/HEAD symbolic
       ref to refs/heads/master and copies index and working tree from the
       head commit)
Branches are something completely different:

Logically, a branch is a history of commits with parent-child-relationship (mathematically spoken, it's an directed acyclic graph): each commit may have a variable number of parent commits.

Technically, what we usally call "branch" is in fact an name (reference in refs/heads/* namespace) which point at the head commit of that local branch. When you do git commit, it creates a new commit object from the index, adds some metadata (eg. your commit message) and sets the current branch reference (usually that one where the symbolic reference refs/HEAD points to) to the new commit object's SHA-key. IOW: you add a new object in front of the DAG and move the pointer one step forward in the line.

When you do a merge (no matter if the source is remote or local - it just needs to be an locally available object), there're essentially two things that can happen:

a) your source is an direct descendant of the target branch (IOW: the
   target's current head commit appears somewhere in the source's history),
   it will just move the current branch forward to the merge source
   (moves the head pointer and updates index and worktree)
   this is called "fast-forward" (in fact, it the fastest kind of merge)
b) your source is not direct descendant: source tree will be actually
   merged into index/worktree, possibly make break when there're conflicts
   to be resolved manually, and create a new commit containing the current
   (now merged) index and two parent poiters, to source and to previous
   merge target.
Now what is rebase ?

A rebase rewrites history in various ways (in fact, you can do a lot more things than just simple rebasing, eg. edit or drop older commits, etc).

For example 'git rebase origin/master' will look for the latest common ancestor of both the current and the target treeish (eg. refs/remotes/master), start from that tree'ish and apply the changes that happend from the last common ancestor until your current branch head ontop of that treeish, (possibly asking the user to manually resolve some conflicts), and then replaces the current branch head by the final head.

As it changes history, it should be used wisely.
A common problem with using rebase and public branches is:
* upstream changes history (eg. because he rebased onto his upstream)
* downstream (per default) merges this upstream into his branch
--> git will see two entirely different branches get merged, so
    there's some good change of nasty conflicts, and history will
    easily get really ugly

So, if you do rebase your public branch, downstreams should also do so (rebase their local branches ontop of your public branch instead of merging yours into theirs).

By the way: there are several more kinds of rebases, which are very interesting for complex or sophisticated workflows, eg:

* --ontop rebase: instead of letting git find out the starting point
  of commit sequence to apply on target treeish, you'll define it
  explicitly (eg. if you want it to forget about things previous to
  the starting treeish).
* interactive rebase: 
  a) is able to reconstruct merges
  b) allows to cut into the sequence and change, drop or add new commits

These operations are very useful for cleaning up the history, especially with things like topic-branch workflow (eg. if you originally have some hackish and unclean commits and you wanna put an clean and self-consistant one into your mainline instead).

cu
-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards 

Enrico Weigelt 
VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH 
Head Of Development 

Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin
Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20
Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59

enrico.weigelt@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de 
Philip Oakley· Nov 10, 2012, 09:55 UTC · re: Enrico Weigelt · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

From: "Enrico Weigelt" <enrico.weigelt@vnc.biz> Sent: Saturday, November
10, 2012 7:13 AM
I've picked out Enrico's key points.
Show 5 quoted lines
>> Maybe I should try to explain the problem in terms of repository
>> hierarchy. Let's assume, there is this hierarchy of repositories:
>
> Let's talk about branches instead - repos are just containers for
> branches (and tags, etc).

This is often the key point that requires the 'new mindset'. Most folk use/used the directory heirarchy (subtle distinction with the .git 'repo' directory heirarchy to be noted) as a way of separating ownership between groups. They find it very hard to undo the old mindset and use branches _instead of_ directories for the different group configurations.

Teaching git is easy. Undoing the old mindset is hard hard hard. [it's still hard]

Show 5 quoted lines
> By the way: you really should use non-conflicting tag names (eg.
> adding some <site>+"/" or <site>+"-" prefix), otherwise you'll
> easiy run into conflicts, because per default retrieved and local
> tags will all be in some namespace
>          Better consider tag names to be really global.
Definitely.
Apologies if it's a bit of bike-shedding.
Philip
Enrico Weigelt· Nov 10, 2012, 10:29 UTC · re: Philip Oakley · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

Show 9 quoted lines
> This is often the key point that requires the 'new mindset'. Most
> folk
> use/used the directory heirarchy (subtle distinction with the .git
> 'repo' directory heirarchy to be noted) as a way of separating
> ownership
> between groups. They find it very hard to undo the old mindset and
> use
> branches _instead of_ directories for the different group
> configurations.
hmm, is this really a psychological issue ?

well, many years ago, i've seen a talk about git (maybe by linus himself), which started with something like "forget everything you know abozt scm" ...

Show 7 quoted lines
> > By the way: you really should use non-conflicting tag names (eg.
> > adding some <site>+"/" or <site>+"-" prefix), otherwise you'll
> > easiy run into conflicts, because per default retrieved and local
> > tags will all be in some namespace
> >          Better consider tag names to be really global.
> 
> Definitely.

Well, you *could* setup special fetch rules, which put tags from separate repos to separate namespaces, but i'd really advice against that, as it's too easy to forget something and again mess it up.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards 

Enrico Weigelt 
VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH 
Head Of Development 

Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin
Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20
Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59

enrico.weigelt@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de 
Philip Oakley· Nov 10, 2012, 12:32 UTC · re: Enrico Weigelt · lore

Re: Workflow for templates?

From: "Enrico Weigelt" <enrico.weigelt@vnc.biz> Sent: Saturday, November 
10, 2012 10:29 AM
Show 11 quoted lines
>> This is often the key point that requires the 'new mindset'. Most
>> folk
>> use/used the directory heirarchy (subtle distinction with the .git
>> 'repo' directory heirarchy to be noted) as a way of separating
>> ownership
>> between groups. They find it very hard to undo the old mindset and
>> use
>> branches _instead of_ directories for the different group
>> configurations.
>
> hmm, is this really a psychological issue ?

Oh absolutely. It is very very hard to unlearn stuff, especially bad habits that have had to become ingrained to make them work adequately! It's like re-learning an alternative to a well loved mnemonic. "CLAP".

Show 5 quoted lines
>
> well, many years ago, i've seen a talk about git (maybe by linus 
> himself),
> which started with something like "forget everything you know abozt 
> scm" ...

Most folk don't know why the old way used to be right, and is now so wrong, so they can't rationalize the change. Hence find the change very difficult.

[Other than git..] Current SCM methods were established before the Titanic sank and are based on drawing office practice, and were transfered and applied to code printouts (which are simply machining instructions to a compiler). The modern zero cost replication of "Master" drawings/code printouts has destroyed the original reasons for the old practices (protect the aluable unique master). Similarly the new paradigm of "how can I verify that this is a proper copy of the master" isn't understood.

Definately a psychological issue when your whole world is being turned upside down ;-)

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