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[Summit topic] Let's have chalk talks (part 1/?)

Subject: [Summit topic] Let's have chalk talks (part 1/?)

## tl;dr

6 messages between Oct 22, 2021 and Oct 26, 2021.

replies: 5people: 4as markdown or json

Johannes Schindelin· Oct 22, 2021, 07:51 UTC · lore

Apparently I have to send this in chunks, to fool the Bayes filter of our beloved mailing list into doing The Right Thing.

This session was led by Emily Shaffer. Supporting cast: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, brian m. carlson, CB Bailey, and Junio Hamano.

Notes:
 1.  What’s a public chalk talk?
     1.  At Google, once a week, the team meets up with no particular topic in
         mind, or a couple topics, very informal
     2.  One person’s turn each week to give an informal talk with a white
         board (not using chalk)
     3.  Topic should be technical and of interest to the presenter
     4.  For example: how does protocol v2 work
     5.  Collaborative, interactive user session
     6.  Helps by learning about things
     7.  Helps by honing skills like presentation skills
     8.  A lot of (good) humility involved. For example, colleagues who have
         been familiar with the project for a long time admitting they don’t
         know, or have been wrong about things. Makes others feel more
         comfortable with their perceived lack of knowledge
     9.  Could be good for everybody on the Git mailing list, might foster less
         combative communication on the list
     10. Might be a way to attract new people by presenting “old timers” as
         humble
 2.  Does that appeal to anybody else?
Philip Oakley· Oct 25, 2021, 20:56 UTC · re: Johannes Schindelin · lore

Re: [Summit topic] Let's have chalk talks (part 1/?)

On 22/10/2021 08:51, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
Show 17 quoted lines
> Apparently I have to send this in chunks, to fool the Bayes filter of our
> beloved mailing list into doing The Right Thing.
>
> This session was led by Emily Shaffer. Supporting cast: Ævar Arnfjörð
> Bjarmason, brian m. carlson, CB Bailey, and Junio Hamano.
>
> Notes:
>
>  1.  What’s a public chalk talk?
>
>      1.  At Google, once a week, the team meets up with no particular topic in
>          mind, or a couple topics, very informal
>
>      2.  One person’s turn each week to give an informal talk with a white
>          board (not using chalk)
>
>      3.  Topic should be technical and of interest to the presenter
[...]
A 'listener' perspective..

At the summit, the packfile's packing algorithm was mentioned as a historic 'chalk talk' that's now in the technical documentation.

In the meantime, while chatting to a colleague about the birthday paradox and its relation to Bloom filters, I realised I didn't understand what our Bloom filters were trying to do and what they recorded.

I had a look at the code and documentation, but there isn't much there about our Bloom filter implementation. A chalk talk could later be used in the same manner as the packfile discussion to show what the filters do?

If there is someone who'd like to talk through what the Bloom filters are doing in Git then I'd be all ears.

-- Philip

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason· Oct 25, 2021, 21:20 UTC · re: Philip Oakley · lore

Re: [Summit topic] Let's have chalk talks (part 1/?)

On Mon, Oct 25 2021, Philip Oakley wrote:
Show 35 quoted lines
> On 22/10/2021 08:51, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
>> Apparently I have to send this in chunks, to fool the Bayes filter of our
>> beloved mailing list into doing The Right Thing.
>>
>> This session was led by Emily Shaffer. Supporting cast: Ævar Arnfjörð
>> Bjarmason, brian m. carlson, CB Bailey, and Junio Hamano.
>>
>> Notes:
>>
>>  1.  What’s a public chalk talk?
>>
>>      1.  At Google, once a week, the team meets up with no particular topic in
>>          mind, or a couple topics, very informal
>>
>>      2.  One person’s turn each week to give an informal talk with a white
>>          board (not using chalk)
>>
>>      3.  Topic should be technical and of interest to the presenter
> [...]
>
> A 'listener' perspective..
>
> At the summit, the packfile's packing algorithm was mentioned as a
> historic 'chalk talk' that's now in the technical documentation.
>
> In the meantime, while chatting to a colleague about the birthday
> paradox and its relation to Bloom filters, I realised I didn't
> understand what our Bloom filters were trying to do and what they recorded.
>
> I had a look at the code and documentation, but there isn't much there
> about our Bloom filter implementation. A chalk talk could later be used
> in the same manner as the packfile discussion to show what the filters do?
>
> If there is someone who'd like to talk through what the Bloom filters
> are doing in Git then I'd be all ears.

That sounds like a good idea for a topic, not to take away from any of that discussion, but I believe the bloom filters we have are exclusively used for path filtering if they exist in the commit-graph.

I.e. for:
    git rev-list -- $path

See c525ce95b46 (commit-graph: check all leading directories in changed path Bloom filters, 2020-07-01) for one use-case and benchmark numbers.

Philip Oakley· Oct 26, 2021, 09:45 UTC · re: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason · lore

Re: [Summit topic] Let's have chalk talks (part 1/?)

On 25/10/2021 22:20, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
Show 40 quoted lines
> On Mon, Oct 25 2021, Philip Oakley wrote:
>
>> On 22/10/2021 08:51, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
>>> Apparently I have to send this in chunks, to fool the Bayes filter of our
>>> beloved mailing list into doing The Right Thing.
>>>
>>> This session was led by Emily Shaffer. Supporting cast: Ævar Arnfjörð
>>> Bjarmason, brian m. carlson, CB Bailey, and Junio Hamano.
>>>
>>> Notes:
>>>
>>>  1.  What’s a public chalk talk?
>>>
>>>      1.  At Google, once a week, the team meets up with no particular topic in
>>>          mind, or a couple topics, very informal
>>>
>>>      2.  One person’s turn each week to give an informal talk with a white
>>>          board (not using chalk)
>>>
>>>      3.  Topic should be technical and of interest to the presenter
>> [...]
>>
>> A 'listener' perspective..
>>
>> At the summit, the packfile's packing algorithm was mentioned as a
>> historic 'chalk talk' that's now in the technical documentation.
>>
>> In the meantime, while chatting to a colleague about the birthday
>> paradox and its relation to Bloom filters, I realised I didn't
>> understand what our Bloom filters were trying to do and what they recorded.
>>
>> I had a look at the code and documentation, but there isn't much there
>> about our Bloom filter implementation. A chalk talk could later be used
>> in the same manner as the packfile discussion to show what the filters do?
>>
>> If there is someone who'd like to talk through what the Bloom filters
>> are doing in Git then I'd be all ears.
> That sounds like a good idea for a topic, not to take away from any of
> that discussion, but I believe the bloom filters we have are exclusively
> used for path filtering if they exist in the commit-graph.
I sort of thought that something like that was the case
Show 9 quoted lines
>
> I.e. for:
>
>     git rev-list -- $path
>
> See c525ce95b46 (commit-graph: check all leading directories in changed
> path Bloom filters, 2020-07-01) for one use-case and benchmark numbers.
>
>

Often it's just managing to get these little linkages between these (to the uninitiated) disparate ideas and system parts. E.g. the 'exclusively' part, and then the use case.

 The "commit-graph" has a similar conceptual distance from the "do they
mean just the DAG (directed acyclic graph)?" when it comes to the
technical docs.
 Working out where to squeeze in such information can be tricky once the
docs have closed in around their existing layouts.
-- 
Philip
SZEDER Gábor· Oct 25, 2021, 22:26 UTC · re: Philip Oakley · lore

Re: [Summit topic] Let's have chalk talks (part 1/?)

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 09:56:56PM +0100, Philip Oakley wrote:
Show 10 quoted lines
> In the meantime, while chatting to a colleague about the birthday
> paradox and its relation to Bloom filters, I realised I didn't
> understand what our Bloom filters were trying to do and what they recorded.
> 
> I had a look at the code and documentation, but there isn't much there
> about our Bloom filter implementation. A chalk talk could later be used
> in the same manner as the packfile discussion to show what the filters do?
> 
> If there is someone who'd like to talk through what the Bloom filters
> are doing in Git then I'd be all ears.

Then perhaps you might find it's worth your while to read through this:

  https://public-inbox.org/git/20200529085038.26008-16-szeder.dev@gmail.com/
Philip Oakley· Oct 26, 2021, 15:35 UTC · re: SZEDER Gábor · lore

Re: [Summit topic] Let's have chalk talks (part 1/?)

On 25/10/2021 23:26, SZEDER Gábor wrote:
Show 16 quoted lines
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 09:56:56PM +0100, Philip Oakley wrote:
>> In the meantime, while chatting to a colleague about the birthday
>> paradox and its relation to Bloom filters, I realised I didn't
>> understand what our Bloom filters were trying to do and what they recorded.
>>
>> I had a look at the code and documentation, but there isn't much there
>> about our Bloom filter implementation. A chalk talk could later be used
>> in the same manner as the packfile discussion to show what the filters do?
>>
>> If there is someone who'd like to talk through what the Bloom filters
>> are doing in Git then I'd be all ears.
> Then perhaps you might find it's worth your while to read through
> this:
>
>   https://public-inbox.org/git/20200529085038.26008-16-szeder.dev@gmail.com/
>

Thanks for the link. It's quite a size of commit message ;-)  Are there any plans to extract the 'how it works' parts into a Bloom filter doc?

Philip

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