# Bogofilter is my emails 5 messages from 2006-09-03 to 2006-09-04. Participants: Shawn Pearce, Davide Libenzi, Linus Torvalds, Junio C Hamano, Martin Langhoff. Thread: https://gitlist.dev/t/5465 ## Shawn Pearce, 2006-09-03 04:02 Subject: Bogofilter is my emails Message-ID: <20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20060903040222.GB29756%40spearce.org ``` Bogofilter ate two messages today that I tried to send to this mailing list. At least I got back bounce messages from it. I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list. Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them but I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style twice tripped bogofilter's spam switch. -- Shawn. -- VGER BF report: S 1 ``` ## Davide Libenzi, 2006-09-03 22:53 Subject: Re: Bogofilter is my emails Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/Pine.LNX.4.64.0609031543050.4517%40alien.or.mcafeemobile.com In-Reply-To: <20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org> ``` On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Shawn Pearce wrote: > Bogofilter ate two messages today that I tried to send to this > mailing list. At least I got back bounce messages from it. > > I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list. > Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them > but I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style > twice tripped bogofilter's spam switch. Maybe Matti trained the filter using the lkml corpus. Just sprinkle a few linux-kernel hot words in your posts ;) - Davide -- VGER BF report: U 0.926352 ``` ## Linus Torvalds, 2006-09-03 23:09 Subject: Re: Bogofilter is my emails Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/Pine.LNX.4.64.0609031550330.27779%40g5.osdl.org In-Reply-To: <20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org> ``` On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Shawn Pearce wrote: > > I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list. > Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them > but I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style > twice tripped bogofilter's spam switch. I'm surprised and disgusted that vger started using bogofilter. Last I saw, the bogofilter approach was totally bogus, using purely single-word frequencies (or, more strictly, a "does word X exist or not", where X has often gone through what a linguist would probably call a "lemmatizer", ie something that turns different forms of the same word into its canonical word, aka "lemma") for its "bayesian" filtering. Maybe they've enhanced it enough since, but it certainly used to be not only fairly easy to fool, since it at least originally didn't take any account at all of any more complex structure. There's even some papers about how the bayesian thing does not work well (even when extended to do some phrases and with lemmatization) if the cut-off is hard. I think the bogofilter is probably an acceptable input as _one_ of many rules for a real spam-filter (ie as one of many spamassassin rules), but not for what vger does. Hard rules at mail acceptance are much better if they use some really hard datum. For example, checking that the sending site actually also receives email, and that it resolves back to itself. That's one thing that OSDL does, for example, and it means that you can only send me email if your machine is actually designated as a MX gateway. That cuts down on a _lot_ of spam. (I'd love to speak of the details, but I wouldn't know. Kees Cook set it all up at osdl, and I can just say that it works beautifully.) Linus -- VGER BF report: U 0.720981 ``` ## Junio C Hamano, 2006-09-04 01:23 Subject: Re: Bogofilter is my emails Message-ID: <7vy7t0s9ug.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/7vy7t0s9ug.fsf%40assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net In-Reply-To: ``` Linus Torvalds writes: > On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Shawn Pearce wrote: >> >> I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list. >> Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them >> but I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style >> twice tripped bogofilter's spam switch. > > I'm surprised and disgusted that vger started using bogofilter. >... > Linus > > -- > VGER BF report: U 0.720981 Hehe, and it still considers that your message is highly spammy (1.0 being definite spam, 0.0 being definite ham, if I am not mistaken). The filter at least should learn to recognize "^\t\tLinus$" ;-). -- VGER BF report: U 0.669453 ``` ## Martin Langhoff, 2006-09-04 05:46 Subject: Re: Bogofilter is my emails Message-ID: <46a038f90609032246h634cfa4amf5ebe4b41a0f6fb8@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/46a038f90609032246h634cfa4amf5ebe4b41a0f6fb8%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org> ``` On 9/3/06, Shawn Pearce wrote: > I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list. > Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them Well, it's just eaten 2 trivial patches of mine. Grumble. I am resending them via a different smtp host with the assumption that the rules may be blocking emails sent via localhost on the initial hop or other smtp-routing-related rule. Discussion however seems to imply that bogofilter is only email-content based? The vger mta admins need to get a grip on 2006 and use a combination of weighted rules to play the spam blocking game with at least some hope. Simple rulesets nowadays are triggered by ham way more often than spam. cheers, martin -- VGER BF report: U 0.550887 ```