# Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? 15 messages from 2017-05-06 to 2017-05-09. Participants: Jonathan Tirado, Samuel Lijin, Eric Wong, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Junio C Hamano, Johannes Schindelin, Brandon Williams. Thread: https://gitlist.dev/t/45891 ## Jonathan Tirado, 2017-05-06 17:46 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/v26esrmyqyqykypjs75fx2vy.1494092763967%40email.android.com ``` ``` ## Samuel Lijin, 2017-05-06 18:23 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/CAJZjrdWYDMFHRrbeFk89p%2BGebLpWJBUQfnpC6w87aVh8czL5_w%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` Yep, I see these on public-inbox.org/git/ but not in my gmail inbox: - Brandon [RFC 01/14] through [RFC 14/14] convert dir.c to take an index parameter - Johanne's Coverity patch series ``` ## Eric Wong, 2017-05-06 20:50 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170506205041.GA26189@starla> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170506205041.GA26189%40starla In-Reply-To: ``` (I have no idea what Jonathan Tirado wrote; it was encrypted (but sent to a public list). Samuel Lijin wrote: > Yep, I see these on public-inbox.org/git/ but not in my gmail inbox: Hi Samuel, check your Spam box (and move it to a normal inbox so they can train it). Gmail filters are known to trigger happy and incorrectly flag messages. It's been a problem on LKML, too. > - Brandon [RFC 01/14] through [RFC 14/14] convert dir.c to take an > index parameter Ironically, Brandon is a Google employee and Gmail seems to not like his messages. The only flag I see from SpamAssassin in public-inbox is HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS which happens to every message because it's relayed via kernel.org Maybe Brandon can escalate this internally in Google... (OTOH, I noticed a thread/mbox download bug in public-inbox, https://public-inbox.org/git/xmqqmvaq702u.fsf@gitster.mtv.corp.google.com/t.mbox.gz only shows two messages out of many. Will need to fix that...) > - Johanne's Coverity patch series Likewise, but he also uses freemail domain (nothing wrong with that, but it raises one flag on SA). I noticed at least one of his did trigger the RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM in SpamAssassin, but that's a common problem with all freemail providers (including Gmail). Anyways, I'm glad the SpamAssassin seems to be working well on public-inbox and would be grateful to know if there's false positives and missing messages. One of the major reasons I started public-inbox was because I lack faith in my ability to run my little list server (with mlmmj or mailman) and be able to successfully relay to the big providers. Anyways, I'm glad it's helping readers of git@vger, too :) ``` ## Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, 2017-05-06 21:05 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/CACBZZX42rhmrq8z0u1aRXw87oT22YywwnaFHUMjDYgtE_i56nw%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20170506205041.GA26189@starla> ``` On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Eric Wong wrote: > (I have no idea what Jonathan Tirado wrote; it was encrypted (but > sent to a public list). > > Samuel Lijin wrote: >> Yep, I see these on public-inbox.org/git/ but not in my gmail inbox: > > Hi Samuel, check your Spam box (and move it to a normal inbox so > they can train it). Gmail filters are known to trigger happy > and incorrectly flag messages. It's been a problem on LKML, > too. > >> - Brandon [RFC 01/14] through [RFC 14/14] convert dir.c to take an >> index parameter > > Ironically, Brandon is a Google employee and Gmail seems to not > like his messages. The only flag I see from SpamAssassin in > public-inbox is HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS which happens to > every message because it's relayed via kernel.org > > Maybe Brandon can escalate this internally in Google... > > (OTOH, I noticed a thread/mbox download bug in public-inbox, > https://public-inbox.org/git/xmqqmvaq702u.fsf@gitster.mtv.corp.google.com/t.mbox.gz > only shows two messages out of many. Will need to fix that...) > >> - Johanne's Coverity patch series > > Likewise, but he also uses freemail domain (nothing wrong with > that, but it raises one flag on SA). I noticed at least one > of his did trigger the RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM in SpamAssassin, but that's > a common problem with all freemail providers (including Gmail). > > > Anyways, I'm glad the SpamAssassin seems to be working well on > public-inbox and would be grateful to know if there's false > positives and missing messages. > > One of the major reasons I started public-inbox was because I > lack faith in my ability to run my little list server (with > mlmmj or mailman) and be able to successfully relay to the big > providers. Anyways, I'm glad it's helping readers of git@vger, > too :) Thanks a lot for public-inbox, my only problem with it is that it doesn't cover every single mailing list I'm on, just git :) Are you or someone else maintaining some ancillary scripts for it? I probably need to fix my patch workflow but my usual mode is browsing in GMail & then manually 'git am'-ing some file I find with git-log commands. I have one to git am a patch from a msgid, thought I should write something to handle a series in some DWIM fashion (e.g. apply the latest continuous sequence of patches matching --author) but figured that someone's probably wrote this already & I don't need to hack it up myself... ``` ## Samuel Lijin, 2017-05-06 21:10 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/CAJZjrdXPgrSAHJPsQiW756XFK1-XyGY0skJTefczaqJpOy6yKQ%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20170506205041.GA26189@starla> ``` On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Eric Wong wrote: > (I have no idea what Jonathan Tirado wrote; it was encrypted (but > sent to a public list). > > Samuel Lijin wrote: >> Yep, I see these on public-inbox.org/git/ but not in my gmail inbox: > > Hi Samuel, check your Spam box (and move it to a normal inbox so > they can train it). Gmail filters are known to trigger happy > and incorrectly flag messages. It's been a problem on LKML, > too. Sorry, should've been clearer - I did check my spambox in my original message. Some old patches from Brandon were in there, but the ones I mentioned in my original message just seem to have been dropped. ``` ## Eric Wong, 2017-05-06 21:42 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170506214223.GA28534@starla> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170506214223.GA28534%40starla In-Reply-To: ``` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > Thanks a lot for public-inbox, my only problem with it is that it > doesn't cover every single mailing list I'm on, just git :) Yes, I'm hoping more folks can start running their own instances. I notice you're on p5p where I started to occasionally lurk a few years back. Is that something you'd be interesting in mirroring? :) Some lists I'm involved in tend to be centralized (reply-to-list, not reply-to-all); so UI changes will be needed in public-inbox... > Are you or someone else maintaining some ancillary scripts for it? I > probably need to fix my patch workflow but my usual mode is browsing > in GMail & then manually 'git am'-ing some file I find with git-log > commands. Not really. I started out ssoma(*) just for archival/mirroring, but it's mostly forgotten at this point. I would rather people build on existing protocols like NNTP. > I have one to git am a patch from a msgid, thought I should write > something to handle a series in some DWIM fashion (e.g. apply the > latest continuous sequence of patches matching --author) but figured > that someone's probably wrote this already & I don't need to hack it > up myself... I've been meaning to wire up the web search to allow downloading an entire mbox worth of search results. But it could be a bit expensive for some queries and there needs to be a limit. The current limit for web display is too small; so maybe 1000 messages per-mbox at a time to avoid DoS-ing the server. (*) some-sort-of-mail archiver: git clone git://80x24.org/ssoma ``` ## Eric Wong, 2017-05-07 03:24 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170507032417.GA7838@dcvr> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170507032417.GA7838%40dcvr In-Reply-To: ``` Junio C Hamano wrote: > As it is a pain to access gmail inbox via imap (I was told that > something called "offline imap" may alleviate the pain, but I > haven't tried it yet), offlineimap isn't bad; I've been using it since 2003-2004 and can say it's easier-to-setup and more reliable than isync/mbsync, especially with not-so-great "IMAP" servers. offlineimap also has specific examples in the docs for Gmail's weird IMAP interface. My main complaints about it are high memory usage and slowness. > I tend to use NNTP interface to either gmane > or public-inbox almost exclusively, so like everybody else, it often > takes a message hours before I see it due to this throttling. I do > not see the message I am responding to on public-inbox, and I am > responding to the copy I got direct from you, for example. Looks like vger is down, my mail server can't make connections to it on port 25 at all. Good thing we have a reply-to-all convention here :) ``` ## Eric Wong, 2017-05-07 12:41 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170507124158.GA15706@starla> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170507124158.GA15706%40starla In-Reply-To: <20170506205041.GA26189@starla> ``` Eric Wong wrote: > (OTOH, I noticed a thread/mbox download bug in public-inbox, > https://public-inbox.org/git/xmqqmvaq702u.fsf@gitster.mtv.corp.google.com/t.mbox.gz > only shows two messages out of many. Will need to fix that...) I think I fixed that bug, at least: https://public-inbox.org/meta/20170507110328.GA20102@whir/ And vger is still down... ``` ## Eric Wong, 2017-05-07 01:05 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170507010537.GA21703@starla> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170507010537.GA21703%40starla In-Reply-To: ``` Samuel Lijin wrote: > Sorry, should've been clearer - I did check my spambox in my original > message. Some old patches from Brandon were in there, but the ones I > mentioned in my original message just seem to have been dropped. Apparently, vger also throttles mail to gmail aggressively, so maybe some show up eventually: https://marc.info/?i=20170501.105057.824365162373797902.davem@davemloft.net On a side note, I just started trying the "mutt-patched" package in Debian stable. It looks like "mutt" package will absorb it's functionality in future releases, but maybe more mutt users can have NNTP support in their favorite MUA :) ``` ## Eric Wong, 2017-05-07 00:26 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170507002630.GA15897@starla> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170507002630.GA15897%40starla In-Reply-To: ``` Samuel Lijin wrote: > > Samuel Lijin wrote: > >> Yep, I see these on public-inbox.org/git/ but not in my gmail inbox: > > > > Hi Samuel, check your Spam box (and move it to a normal inbox so > > they can train it). Gmail filters are known to trigger happy > > and incorrectly flag messages. It's been a problem on LKML, > > too. > > Sorry, should've been clearer - I did check my spambox in my original > message. Some old patches from Brandon were in there, but the ones I > mentioned in my original message just seem to have been dropped. Yikes. I wonder if Gmail automatically nukes messages if they end up in enough Spam boxes... Really hoping Googlers can do something about this (or better, more people start running their own SMTP servers, again). ``` ## Junio C Hamano, 2017-05-07 03:00 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/xmqqfugh74mn.fsf%40gitster.mtv.corp.google.com In-Reply-To: <20170507010537.GA21703@starla> ``` Eric Wong writes: > Samuel Lijin wrote: >> Sorry, should've been clearer - I did check my spambox in my original >> message. Some old patches from Brandon were in there, but the ones I >> mentioned in my original message just seem to have been dropped. > > Apparently, vger also throttles mail to gmail aggressively, so > maybe some show up eventually: > > https://marc.info/?i=20170501.105057.824365162373797902.davem@davemloft.net > Thanks for a pointer. That does explain the symptom I saw number of times, seeing list traffic that directly came to me hours before I see a copy on the public list mirrors like gmane and public-inbox. As it is a pain to access gmail inbox via imap (I was told that something called "offline imap" may alleviate the pain, but I haven't tried it yet), I tend to use NNTP interface to either gmane or public-inbox almost exclusively, so like everybody else, it often takes a message hours before I see it due to this throttling. I do not see the message I am responding to on public-inbox, and I am responding to the copy I got direct from you, for example. ``` ## Johannes Schindelin, 2017-05-08 10:42 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/alpine.DEB.2.21.1.1705081239360.146734%40virtualbox In-Reply-To: ``` Hi Ævar, On Sat, 6 May 2017, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > I have one [script] to git am a patch from a msgid, thought I should > write something to handle a series in some DWIM fashion (e.g. apply the > latest continuous sequence of patches matching --author) but figured > that someone's probably wrote this already & I don't need to hack it up > myself... You probably missed my previous mails mentioning https://github.com/git-for-windows/build-extra/blob/master/apply-from-public-inbox.sh You can use this script to apply single patches (identified by their Message-ID), and patch series (identified by their cover letter's Message-ID). As I mentioned at the Contributors' Summit at GitMerge 2017: I would *love* to collaborate on tools that make any part of the contribution/review process less cumbersome than it is right now. Ciao, Dscho ``` ## Brandon Williams, 2017-05-08 17:01 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170508170136.GB179149@google.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170508170136.GB179149%40google.com In-Reply-To: ``` On 05/08, Johannes Schindelin wrote: > Hi Ævar, > > On Sat, 6 May 2017, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > > > I have one [script] to git am a patch from a msgid, thought I should > > write something to handle a series in some DWIM fashion (e.g. apply the > > latest continuous sequence of patches matching --author) but figured > > that someone's probably wrote this already & I don't need to hack it up > > myself... > > You probably missed my previous mails mentioning > > https://github.com/git-for-windows/build-extra/blob/master/apply-from-public-inbox.sh > > You can use this script to apply single patches (identified by their > Message-ID), and patch series (identified by their cover letter's > Message-ID). > > As I mentioned at the Contributors' Summit at GitMerge 2017: I would > *love* to collaborate on tools that make any part of the > contribution/review process less cumbersome than it is right now. Yeah its not the most streamlined process. I'm sure everyone writes their own scripts (like I did) tailored to their workflow. For example I just tag a bunch of mails in mutt and then have a scripts which 'git am's them on a branch/base of my choosing. But its specific to my workflow so idk how useful it would be to others :( -- Brandon Williams ``` ## Brandon Williams, 2017-05-08 17:05 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: <20170508170521.GC179149@google.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20170508170521.GC179149%40google.com In-Reply-To: <20170507002630.GA15897@starla> ``` On 05/07, Eric Wong wrote: > Samuel Lijin wrote: > > > Samuel Lijin wrote: > > >> Yep, I see these on public-inbox.org/git/ but not in my gmail inbox: > > > > > > Hi Samuel, check your Spam box (and move it to a normal inbox so > > > they can train it). Gmail filters are known to trigger happy > > > and incorrectly flag messages. It's been a problem on LKML, > > > too. > > > > Sorry, should've been clearer - I did check my spambox in my original > > message. Some old patches from Brandon were in there, but the ones I > > mentioned in my original message just seem to have been dropped. > > Yikes. I wonder if Gmail automatically nukes messages if > they end up in enough Spam boxes... Really hoping Googlers > can do something about this (or better, more people start > running their own SMTP servers, again). That's quite odd, none of my coworkers are seeing behavior like this (my mail going to spam). -- Brandon Williams ``` ## Johannes Schindelin, 2017-05-09 10:10 Subject: Re: vger not relaying some of Junio's messages today? Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/alpine.DEB.2.21.1.1705091207580.146734%40virtualbox In-Reply-To: <20170508170136.GB179149@google.com> ``` Hi Brandon, On Mon, 8 May 2017, Brandon Williams wrote: > On 05/08, Johannes Schindelin wrote: > > > On Sat, 6 May 2017, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > > > > > I have one [script] to git am a patch from a msgid, thought I should > > > write something to handle a series in some DWIM fashion (e.g. apply > > > the latest continuous sequence of patches matching --author) but > > > figured that someone's probably wrote this already & I don't need to > > > hack it up myself... > > > > You probably missed my previous mails mentioning > > > > https://github.com/git-for-windows/build-extra/blob/master/apply-from-public-inbox.sh > > > > You can use this script to apply single patches (identified by their > > Message-ID), and patch series (identified by their cover letter's > > Message-ID). > > > > As I mentioned at the Contributors' Summit at GitMerge 2017: I would > > *love* to collaborate on tools that make any part of the > > contribution/review process less cumbersome than it is right now. > > Yeah its not the most streamlined process. I'm sure everyone writes > their own scripts (like I did) tailored to their workflow. I am sure you are right. What a waste of time, for everybody to come up with essentially the same sort of scripts, just to be able to participate. > For example I just tag a bunch of mails in mutt and then have a scripts > which 'git am's them on a branch/base of my choosing. But its specific > to my workflow so idk how useful it would be to others :( Hmm. So it looks more and more as if you *have* to use mutt in order to be rewarded with the option for an efficient workflow. I'm just so used to my good ole' Alpine. And others may be so used to their Thunderbird, Outlook, GMail, whatevs. But hey, maybe the vger woes will eventually become so bad that even mutt and NNTP users will be affected negatively. At that point, we may look into alternatives. Ciao, Dscho ```