# Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 17 messages from 2016-08-14 to 2016-09-07. Participants: Christian Couder, Junio C Hamano, Philip Oakley, Eric Wong, Jakub Narębski, Josh Triplett. Thread: https://gitlist.dev/t/43842 ## Christian Couder, 2016-08-14 17:15 Subject: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/CAP8UFD1iveotLsMOBnpa%3DhU4ohcQjZ-X7tjnzY4k%2Bxz5KJvqBw%40mail.gmail.com ``` Hi, A draft of a new Git Rev News edition is available here: https://github.com/git/git.github.io/blob/master/rev_news/drafts/edition-18.md Everyone is welcome to contribute in any section either by editing the above page on GitHub and sending a pull request, or by commenting on this GitHub issue: https://github.com/git/git.github.io/issues/170 You can also reply to this email. I tried to cc everyone who appears in this edition but maybe I missed some people, sorry about that. Thomas, Nicola and myself plan to publish this edition on Wednesday August 17. Sorry for the late draft again. Thanks, Christian. ``` ## Junio C Hamano, 2016-08-14 20:58 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/xmqqeg5rkqy6.fsf%40gitster.mtv.corp.google.com In-Reply-To: ``` Christian Couder writes: > You can also reply to this email. I am not sure that is to be recommended, as that ends up going to the list, but anyway, these - Michael's "finding better -/+ assignment in diff using indent heuristic" - Philip Oakley's updates to revision range notation documentation - Kevin Willford's rather clever optimization on internal patch-id computation that is done to exclude already-applied commit while rebasing are interesting/noteworthy topics that may want to be covered in the discussion/review section. ``` ## Philip Oakley, 2016-08-14 21:10 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/D5A2E231FFE74D1C891A1653E1C2D797%40PhilipOakley In-Reply-To: ``` From: "Christian Couder" > Hi, > > A draft of a new Git Rev News edition is available here: > > > https://github.com/git/git.github.io/blob/master/rev_news/drafts/edition-18.md > > Everyone is welcome to contribute in any section either by editing the > above page on GitHub and sending a pull request, or by commenting on > this GitHub issue: > > https://github.com/git/git.github.io/issues/170 > > You can also reply to this email. > > I tried to cc everyone who appears in this edition but maybe I missed > some people, sorry about that. > > Thomas, Nicola and myself plan to publish this edition on Wednesday > August 17. Sorry for the late draft again. > > Thanks, > Christian. > -- I see you mention in passing (weel in the small headings near the bottom) that gmane web interface has gone away. It may be worth noting a few of the alternatives, and in particular Eric's newly updated public-inbox https://public-inbox.org/git/. I've found it very useful and probably easier to use. (now I've seen https://public-inbox.org/design_www.html) -- Philip ``` ## Eric Wong, 2016-08-14 23:10 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160814231000.GB12202@dcvr> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160814231000.GB12202%40dcvr In-Reply-To: ``` Philip Oakley wrote: > From: "Christian Couder" > >You can also reply to this email. > > I see you mention in passing (weel in the small headings near the bottom) > that gmane web interface has gone away. It may be worth noting a few of the > alternatives, and in particular Eric's newly updated public-inbox > https://public-inbox.org/git/. Thanks, I will also add that existing gmane links can be looked up in instance I maintain via: public-inbox.org/git/?q=gmane:123456 It might be worth it to convert numeric links to Message-IDs in older editions, as I also published a mapping at: https://public-inbox.org/.temp/gmane.comp.version-control.git-300599.txt.gz > I've found it very useful and probably easier to use. (now I've seen > https://public-inbox.org/design_www.html) Based on closer reading of RFC3986, section 3.3, I deployed a change to URL generation last night so the "%40" escape for '@' no longer shows up in generated URLs (along with a few other characters): https://public-inbox.org/meta/20160814105152.21925-1-e@80x24.org/ It might be worth updating this edition to avoid the percent escaping since it might confuse users about what the Message-IDs are (and to avoid users passing "%40" into their MUA) Old URLs will always continue working, of course. ``` ## Philip Oakley, 2016-08-14 23:37 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <979EDD785BDC4C16A51CEBBD991B3A5D@PhilipOakley> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/979EDD785BDC4C16A51CEBBD991B3A5D%40PhilipOakley In-Reply-To: <20160814231000.GB12202@dcvr> ``` From: "Eric Wong" > Philip Oakley wrote: >> From: "Christian Couder" >> >You can also reply to this email. >> >> I see you mention in passing (weel in the small headings near the bottom) >> that gmane web interface has gone away. It may be worth noting a few of >> the >> alternatives, and in particular Eric's newly updated public-inbox >> https://public-inbox.org/git/. > > Thanks, Would including a 'help' link on the main pages be possible? Maybe to the www-design page or whatever, just to make the users aware of the wider resourses, and a few key ways of entering search queries (such as the "gmane:123456" which gets that msg, while "gmane/123456" will get all messages that refered to that message (pure text search).. > I will also add that existing gmane links can be looked up > in instance I maintain via: > > public-inbox.org/git/?q=gmane:123456 > [snip] -- Philip ``` ## Eric Wong, 2016-08-14 23:57 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160814235722.GA9605@starla> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160814235722.GA9605%40starla In-Reply-To: <979EDD785BDC4C16A51CEBBD991B3A5D@PhilipOakley> ``` Philip Oakley wrote: > From: "Eric Wong" > >Philip Oakley wrote: > >>From: "Christian Couder" > >>>You can also reply to this email. > >> > >>I see you mention in passing (weel in the small headings near the bottom) > >>that gmane web interface has gone away. It may be worth noting a few of > >>the > >>alternatives, and in particular Eric's newly updated public-inbox > >>https://public-inbox.org/git/. > > > >Thanks, > > Would including a 'help' link on the main pages be possible? Yes, there'll definitely be online help with generic instructions and also instructions specific to each instance so things like "gmane:N" can be documented. There's also bunch of search prefixes I need to document, like "s:" for subject and whatever the built-in timestamp/date range parser for Xapian is. I keep forgetting the Xapian query syntax myself! ``` ## Christian Couder, 2016-08-15 06:16 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/CAP8UFD2Keig92stsNsQwm-xQWDU4SS3NoonnLG_swWzLdE4Xnw%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20160814231000.GB12202@dcvr> ``` On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 1:10 AM, Eric Wong wrote: > Philip Oakley wrote: >> From: "Christian Couder" >> >You can also reply to this email. >> >> I see you mention in passing (weel in the small headings near the bottom) >> that gmane web interface has gone away. It may be worth noting a few of the >> alternatives, and in particular Eric's newly updated public-inbox >> https://public-inbox.org/git/. > > Thanks, I will also add that existing gmane links can be looked up > in instance I maintain via: > > public-inbox.org/git/?q=gmane:123456 Yeah, I agree that we really needed to add something about public-inbox, so I added the following: @@ -147,7 +147,13 @@ __Light reading__ __Git tools and sites__ -* Gmane (a mailing list archive that was used heavily by some Git developers) [shut down its web site](https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2016/07/28/the-end-of-gmane/comment-page-1/#comment-13502). +* Gmane (a mailing list archive that was used heavily by some Git developers) +[shut down its web site](https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2016/07/28/the-end-of-gmane/comment-page-1/#comment-13502). +* [public-inbox](https://public-inbox.org/), which is under heavy developement by Eric Wong, has +[a git archive](https://public-inbox.org/git/) that is now used a lot instead of Gmane. +[It allows](https://public-inbox.org/design_www.html) looking up +existing Gmane links using their Gmane id with URLs like +`http://public-inbox.org/git/?q=gmane:123456`. ## Credits --- (See: https://github.com/git/git.github.io/commit/66d72b0bd9ef38587dd7d5c4c6825a7984f2f2af) Thanks! ``` ## Christian Couder, 2016-08-15 06:17 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/CAP8UFD2mfa2hNDknEt%3DbsbXVn4xSSiyVYz94KL_JPbD66QrfPg%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 10:58 PM, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Christian Couder writes: > >> You can also reply to this email. > > I am not sure that is to be recommended, as that ends up going to > the list, but anyway, these > > - Michael's "finding better -/+ assignment in diff using indent > heuristic" > > - Philip Oakley's updates to revision range notation documentation > > - Kevin Willford's rather clever optimization on internal patch-id > computation that is done to exclude already-applied commit while > rebasing > > are interesting/noteworthy topics that may want to be covered in the > discussion/review section. Yeah, these are great topics and I would be glad if they could be covered by someone else ;-) ``` ## Jakub Narębski, 2016-08-15 18:08 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <9f3b254f-451e-4f6d-233c-7e995d8e369e@gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/9f3b254f-451e-4f6d-233c-7e995d8e369e%40gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` W dniu 14.08.2016 o 23:10, Philip Oakley pisze: > From: "Christian Couder" >> >> A draft of a new Git Rev News edition is available here: >> >> >> https://github.com/git/git.github.io/blob/master/rev_news/drafts/edition-18.md >> >> Everyone is welcome to contribute in any section either by editing the >> above page on GitHub and sending a pull request, or by commenting on >> this GitHub issue: >> >> https://github.com/git/git.github.io/issues/170 >> >> You can also reply to this email. > > I see you mention in passing (well in the small headings near the bottom) > that gmane web interface has gone away. It may be worth noting a few of > the alternatives, and in particular Eric's newly updated public-inbox > https://public-inbox.org/git/. It would be nice to turn it into mini-story rather than just putting a link. Additional references / information: * "Alternatives to mid.gmane.org?" thread, starting with Message-Id: <481D1EE2-6A66-418F-AB28-95947BBF3680@gmail.com> Mentions a few alternatives besides public-inbox: https://marc.info/?i=%s https://mid.mail-archive.com/%s https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/%s for finding message based on Message-Id NOTE: there are a few mailing list archive sites not mentioned in this thread, like Nabble, some of them listed on (not updated) https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitCommunity * "Ingebrigtsen: The End of Gmane?" short note / article on LWN.net, https://lwn.net/Articles/695695/ [Posted July 28, 2016 by jake], part of "Announcements" (http://lwn.net/Articles/695980/) section of LWN.net Weekly Edition for August 4, 2016 (http://lwn.net/Articles/695974/) > I've found it very useful and probably easier to use. > (now I've seen https://public-inbox.org/design_www.html) It's a great pity that https://public-inbox.org/ is just directory index, not a true home page. -- Jakub Narębski ``` ## Jakub Narębski, 2016-08-15 18:25 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <6b492c8c-2c75-9258-03dc-78346c98ff69@gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/6b492c8c-2c75-9258-03dc-78346c98ff69%40gmail.com In-Reply-To: <9f3b254f-451e-4f6d-233c-7e995d8e369e@gmail.com> ``` W dniu 15.08.2016 o 20:08, Jakub Narębski pisze: [...] > Additional references / information: > > * "Alternatives to mid.gmane.org?" thread, starting with > Message-Id: <481D1EE2-6A66-418F-AB28-95947BBF3680@gmail.com> > > Mentions a few alternatives besides public-inbox: > > https://marc.info/?i=%s > https://mid.mail-archive.com/%s > https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/%s > > for finding message based on Message-Id > > NOTE: there are a few mailing list archive sites not mentioned > in this thread, like Nabble, some of them listed on (not updated) > https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitCommunity > > * "Ingebrigtsen: The End of Gmane?" short note / article on LWN.net, > https://lwn.net/Articles/695695/ [Posted July 28, 2016 by jake], > part of "Announcements" (http://lwn.net/Articles/695980/) section > of LWN.net Weekly Edition for August 4, 2016 > (http://lwn.net/Articles/695974/) * "A note from the maintainer" from 12 Aug 2016 Message-Id: includes updated links to mailing list archives, post-Gmane, and some discussion about public-archive.org -- Jakub Narębski ``` ## Eric Wong, 2016-08-16 09:30 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160816093027.GA27347@dcvr> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160816093027.GA27347%40dcvr In-Reply-To: <9f3b254f-451e-4f6d-233c-7e995d8e369e@gmail.com> ``` Jakub Narębski wrote: > It's a great pity that https://public-inbox.org/ is just > directory index, not a true home page. +Cc meta@public-inbox.org I'm not sure one could do better while staying true to the minimalist nature of plain-text email. In the spirit of decentralization, there may not be /a/ homepage, but many. Everything is meant to clonable with each public-inbox, so maybe every public-inbox will have a code branch attached to it with the source+docs bundled. At least for now, other pages are more easily discoverable[1] but one day I hope to have repobrowse[2] running there (and maybe everywhere). For now, I am prioritizing user/admin/hacker documentation so more instances can exist. I'll probably get some online help stuff up tomorrow. [1] at least the top-level of public-inbox.org already has more content than both YHBT.net and bogomips.org combined :) [2] git clone -b repobrowse https://public-inbox.org/ ... (idle the moment: think cgit|gitweb with the same (lack of) style as public-inbox, +search, +mail thread integration) ``` ## Josh Triplett, 2016-08-16 09:34 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160816093412.v3tenw4vyxipunah@x> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160816093412.v3tenw4vyxipunah%40x In-Reply-To: <20160816093027.GA27347@dcvr> ``` On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:30:27AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote: > Jakub Narębski wrote: > > It's a great pity that https://public-inbox.org/ is just > > directory index, not a true home page. > > +Cc meta@public-inbox.org > > I'm not sure one could do better while staying true to the > minimalist nature of plain-text email. > > In the spirit of decentralization, there may not be /a/ > homepage, but many. Everything is meant to clonable with each > public-inbox, so maybe every public-inbox will have a code > branch attached to it with the source+docs bundled. It'd be nice if it had a prominent list of all lists available; as far as I can tell, the main page has no link to /git/. ``` ## Christian Couder, 2016-08-16 12:27 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/CAP8UFD24QpuOOh1b3LCbnuF-0TSJC7E34mjvqo3zdebb_spNxw%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <9f3b254f-451e-4f6d-233c-7e995d8e369e@gmail.com> ``` On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Jakub Narębski wrote: > W dniu 14.08.2016 o 23:10, Philip Oakley pisze: >> From: "Christian Couder" >>> >>> A draft of a new Git Rev News edition is available here: >>> >>> >>> https://github.com/git/git.github.io/blob/master/rev_news/drafts/edition-18.md >>> >>> Everyone is welcome to contribute in any section either by editing the >>> above page on GitHub and sending a pull request, or by commenting on >>> this GitHub issue: >>> >>> https://github.com/git/git.github.io/issues/170 >>> >>> You can also reply to this email. >> >> I see you mention in passing (well in the small headings near the bottom) >> that gmane web interface has gone away. It may be worth noting a few of >> the alternatives, and in particular Eric's newly updated public-inbox >> https://public-inbox.org/git/. > > It would be nice to turn it into mini-story rather than just putting > a link. Yeah, it would be also very welcome if someone could send a patch or a pull request for a mini-story about it. > Additional references / information: > > * "Alternatives to mid.gmane.org?" thread, starting with > Message-Id: <481D1EE2-6A66-418F-AB28-95947BBF3680@gmail.com> > > Mentions a few alternatives besides public-inbox: > > https://marc.info/?i=%s > https://mid.mail-archive.com/%s > https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/%s > > for finding message based on Message-Id > > NOTE: there are a few mailing list archive sites not mentioned > in this thread, like Nabble, some of them listed on (not updated) > https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitCommunity > > * "Ingebrigtsen: The End of Gmane?" short note / article on LWN.net, > https://lwn.net/Articles/695695/ [Posted July 28, 2016 by jake], > part of "Announcements" (http://lwn.net/Articles/695980/) section > of LWN.net Weekly Edition for August 4, 2016 > (http://lwn.net/Articles/695974/) Thanks for this. Maybe you could just add those in a pull request or a patch to the "Git tools and sites" sub section just after the item about public-inbox? Thanks anyway! ``` ## Eric Wong, 2016-08-16 21:27 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160816212704.GA25034@dcvr> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160816212704.GA25034%40dcvr In-Reply-To: <20160816093412.v3tenw4vyxipunah@x> ``` Josh Triplett wrote: > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:30:27AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote: > > Jakub Narębski wrote: > > > It's a great pity that https://public-inbox.org/ is just > > > directory index, not a true home page. > > > > +Cc meta@public-inbox.org > > > > I'm not sure one could do better while staying true to the > > minimalist nature of plain-text email. > > > > In the spirit of decentralization, there may not be /a/ > > homepage, but many. Everything is meant to clonable with each > > public-inbox, so maybe every public-inbox will have a code > > branch attached to it with the source+docs bundled. > > It'd be nice if it had a prominent list of all lists available; as far > as I can tell, the main page has no link to /git/. I'm not sure that's necessary; most of the traffic seems to come from /git/MESSAGE_ID/ links posted by others. So it's probably more inside-out exposure than anything. As for other projects, I'm not aware of anybody else using it, yet. I have some small projects using it, but most of those are one-off throwaways and I'm not comfortable promoting those along with public-inbox. I admit: I'm not comfortable promoting anything I do, really. I do wish more people would start using the .onions, though... ``` ## Josh Triplett, 2016-08-16 22:32 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160816223215.GC17195@cloud> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160816223215.GC17195%40cloud In-Reply-To: <20160816212704.GA25034@dcvr> ``` On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:27:04PM +0000, Eric Wong wrote: > Josh Triplett wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:30:27AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote: > > > Jakub Narębski wrote: > > > > It's a great pity that https://public-inbox.org/ is just > > > > directory index, not a true home page. > > > > > > +Cc meta@public-inbox.org > > > > > > I'm not sure one could do better while staying true to the > > > minimalist nature of plain-text email. > > > > > > In the spirit of decentralization, there may not be /a/ > > > homepage, but many. Everything is meant to clonable with each > > > public-inbox, so maybe every public-inbox will have a code > > > branch attached to it with the source+docs bundled. > > > > It'd be nice if it had a prominent list of all lists available; as far > > as I can tell, the main page has no link to /git/. > > I'm not sure that's necessary; most of the traffic seems to come > from /git/MESSAGE_ID/ links posted by others. So it's > probably more inside-out exposure than anything. If someone hears about public-inbox, it's nice to know what other lists they can use it for. > As for other projects, I'm not aware of anybody else using it, > yet. I have some small projects using it, but most of those are > one-off throwaways and I'm not comfortable promoting those along > with public-inbox. I admit: I'm not comfortable promoting > anything I do, really. Please take this as encouragement to do so. I'd love to see the public-inbox equivalent to the main page of https://lists.debian.org/ , as an example. (And I'd love to have public-inbox archives of Debian mailing lists.) ``` ## Eric Wong, 2016-08-18 10:03 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160818100301.GA30896@dcvr> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160818100301.GA30896%40dcvr In-Reply-To: <979EDD785BDC4C16A51CEBBD991B3A5D@PhilipOakley> ``` Philip Oakley wrote: > Would including a 'help' link on the main pages be possible? Maybe to the > www-design page or whatever, just to make the users aware of the wider > resourses, and a few key ways of entering search queries (such as the > "gmane:123456" which gets that msg, while "gmane/123456" will get all > messages that refered to that message (pure text search).. Finally added https://public-inbox.org/git/_/text/help/ I actually totally overdid some things and trimmed it down before publishing because I felt like it was becoming it's own wiki :x https://public-inbox.org/meta/20160818095150.17118-1-e@80x24.org/T/ Anyways, I'm still thinking there might be too much or too little detail. I don't know how well-known Atom feeds are, even. ``` ## Eric Wong, 2016-09-07 01:08 Subject: Re: Draft of Git Rev News edition 18 Message-ID: <20160907010820.GA26951@dcvr> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20160907010820.GA26951%40dcvr In-Reply-To: <20160816223215.GC17195@cloud> ``` Josh Triplett wrote: > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 09:27:04PM +0000, Eric Wong wrote: > > As for other projects, I'm not aware of anybody else using it, > > yet. I have some small projects using it, but most of those are > > one-off throwaways and I'm not comfortable promoting those along > > with public-inbox. I admit: I'm not comfortable promoting > > anything I do, really. > > Please take this as encouragement to do so. I'd love to see the > public-inbox equivalent to the main page of https://lists.debian.org/ , > as an example. (And I'd love to have public-inbox archives of Debian > mailing lists.) Just pushed out some POD (which should build to manpages), so maybe early adopters can start hosting mirrors themselves(*). https://public-inbox.org/meta/20160907004907.1479-1-e@80x24.org/ I hope public-inbox-overview(7) is a good starting point (along with the existing INSTALL) and there'll be more docs coming at some point... Writing documentation tends to make my attention span drift all over the place; so maybe parts don't make sense or were glossed over, but I'll be glad to help clarify anything. (Responding to emails is generally easier for me since I can answer things specifically, tough to do for generic docs) I'll try to get a tarball release out soonish, but my schedule is unpredictable. (*) None of the code has had any security audit, yet; and there's no warranty of course. ```