# windows problems summary 14 messages from 2006-03-02 to 2006-03-31. Participants: Alex Riesen, Christopher Faylor, Johannes Schindelin, Bertrand Jacquin, Andreas Ericsson, Shawn Pearce, Eric W. Biederman. Thread: https://gitlist.dev/t/3522 ## Alex Riesen, 2006-03-02 14:49 Subject: windows problems summary Message-ID: <81b0412b0603020649u99a2035i3b8adde8ddce9410@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/81b0412b0603020649u99a2035i3b8adde8ddce9410%40mail.gmail.com ``` This is just to summarize all the problems which make porting to that thing so boring. Maybe if we have them all on one page, it'd be easier to locate the workarounds (it can be one thread, for example). 1. opened and mmaped files can't be removed or renamed (caused workaround with reading index in memory) 2. command can safely contain only one argument (breaks and complicates passing things between processes) 3. no fork (slows down and complicates passing things between processes) 4. non-unix permissions model (breaks x-attr) 5. real slow filesystems and caching (makes everything slow. I noticed I'm trying to avoid git status!). Caused workaround with manual checkout) 6. real slow program startup (makes everything slow, eventually may cause everything being put in one super-executable, just to avoid spawning new processes, with all associated problems. Makes scripting harder) I hope this message can be a start of a big porting thread, even though it is only about windows at the moment. Alex Riesen ``` ## Christopher Faylor, 2006-03-02 15:23 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <20060302152329.GH2781@trixie.casa.cgf.cx> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20060302152329.GH2781%40trixie.casa.cgf.cx In-Reply-To: <81b0412b0603020649u99a2035i3b8adde8ddce9410@mail.gmail.com> ``` On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 03:49:24PM +0100, Alex Riesen wrote: >This is just to summarize all the problems which make porting to that >thing so boring. Maybe if we have them all on one page, it'd be easier >to locate the workarounds (it can be one thread, for example). > >1. opened and mmaped files can't be removed or renamed > (caused workaround with reading index in memory) >2. command can safely contain only one argument > (breaks and complicates passing things between processes) >3. no fork > (slows down and complicates passing things between processes) >4. non-unix permissions model > (breaks x-attr) >5. real slow filesystems and caching > (makes everything slow. I noticed I'm trying to avoid git status!). > Caused workaround with manual checkout) >6. real slow program startup > (makes everything slow, eventually may cause everything being put > in one super-executable, just to avoid spawning new processes, > with all associated problems. Makes scripting harder) > >I hope this message can be a start of a big porting thread, >even though it is only about windows at the moment. Are we *really* contemplating porting git to native Windows? I guess I missed that memo. cgf ``` ## Alex Riesen, 2006-03-02 15:35 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <81b0412b0603020735j603b3518ob5e27a02c531093a@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/81b0412b0603020735j603b3518ob5e27a02c531093a%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060302152329.GH2781@trixie.casa.cgf.cx> ``` On 3/2/06, Christopher Faylor wrote: > > Are we *really* contemplating porting git to native Windows? > Actually, I wasn't thinking about that when I was writing that mail, but ... why not? Cygwin makes syscalls many times slower, git is very slow on windows, users (well, I) want it faster, so if the needed api subset can be narrowed down to a reasonable amount of work - I think I'd give the idea a try. ``` ## Johannes Schindelin, 2006-03-02 15:38 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/Pine.LNX.4.63.0603021636020.30490%40wbgn013.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de In-Reply-To: <81b0412b0603020649u99a2035i3b8adde8ddce9410@mail.gmail.com> ``` Hi, On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Alex Riesen wrote: > 1. opened and mmaped files can't be removed or renamed > (caused workaround with reading index in memory) It was not the locking which caused the workaround. It was the not-working. (I still have to find a Windows machine where git-whatchanged does not segfault without NO_MMAP.) > 2. command can safely contain only one argument > (breaks and complicates passing things between processes) > 3. no fork > (slows down and complicates passing things between processes) > 4. non-unix permissions model > (breaks x-attr) > 5. real slow filesystems and caching > (makes everything slow. I noticed I'm trying to avoid git status!). > Caused workaround with manual checkout) > 6. real slow program startup > (makes everything slow, eventually may cause everything being put > in one super-executable, just to avoid spawning new processes, > with all associated problems. Makes scripting harder) Except for (4), these issues should be resolvable by the libifying effort. Ciao, Dscho ``` ## Bertrand Jacquin, 2006-03-02 15:57 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <4fb292fa0603020757q4cd3e80cjbb63d0dc58d19756@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/4fb292fa0603020757q4cd3e80cjbb63d0dc58d19756%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <81b0412b0603020735j603b3518ob5e27a02c531093a@mail.gmail.com> ``` On 3/2/06, Alex Riesen wrote: > On 3/2/06, Christopher Faylor wrote: > > > > Are we *really* contemplating porting git to native Windows? > > > > Actually, I wasn't thinking about that when I was writing that mail, > but ... why not? > Cygwin makes syscalls many times slower, git is very slow on > windows, users (well, I) want it faster, so if the needed api subset > can be narrowed down to a reasonable amount of work - I think > I'd give the idea a try. Is the goal to have something like a git-turtoise (as {svn,cvs}-turtoise) ? I personaly think that is could be benefic. -- Beber #e.fr@freenode ``` ## Andreas Ericsson, 2006-03-02 16:01 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <440716DB.7080108@op5.se> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/440716DB.7080108%40op5.se In-Reply-To: <81b0412b0603020735j603b3518ob5e27a02c531093a@mail.gmail.com> ``` Alex Riesen wrote: > On 3/2/06, Christopher Faylor wrote: > >>Are we *really* contemplating porting git to native Windows? >> > > > Actually, I wasn't thinking about that when I was writing that mail, > but ... why not? For the same reason we don't support Perl 5.4. It's too much effort for too little gain. OTOH, if you want to do the effort, I won't mind taking the gain. ;) -- Andreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se OP5 AB www.op5.se Tel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231 ``` ## Alex Riesen, 2006-03-02 16:26 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <81b0412b0603020826g50eb13cfkc43fc5d926d619ed@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/81b0412b0603020826g50eb13cfkc43fc5d926d619ed%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <440716DB.7080108@op5.se> ``` On 3/2/06, Andreas Ericsson wrote: > >>Are we *really* contemplating porting git to native Windows? > > > > Actually, I wasn't thinking about that when I was writing that mail, > > but ... why not? > > For the same reason we don't support Perl 5.4. It's too much effort for > too little gain. OTOH, if you want to do the effort, I won't mind taking > the gain. ;) I don't care. I just have nothing for you to gain from yet. ``` ## Alex Riesen, 2006-03-02 16:33 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <81b0412b0603020833j214556bek887c53a3ef43fd58@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/81b0412b0603020833j214556bek887c53a3ef43fd58%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` On 3/2/06, Johannes Schindelin wrote: > > > 1. opened and mmaped files can't be removed or renamed > > (caused workaround with reading index in memory) > > It was not the locking which caused the workaround. It was the > not-working. (I still have to find a Windows machine where git-whatchanged > does not segfault without NO_MMAP.) me too. It crashes everywhere here. > > 4. non-unix permissions model > > (breaks x-attr) > > 5. real slow filesystems and caching > > (makes everything slow. I noticed I'm trying to avoid git status!). > > Caused workaround with manual checkout) > > 6. real slow program startup > > (makes everything slow, eventually may cause everything being put > > in one super-executable, just to avoid spawning new processes, > > with all associated problems. Makes scripting harder) > > Except for (4), these issues should be resolvable by the libifying effort. > How can it help with 5? Less accesses to index? ``` ## Shawn Pearce, 2006-03-02 16:51 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <20060302165146.GA18929@spearce.org> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20060302165146.GA18929%40spearce.org In-Reply-To: <81b0412b0603020735j603b3518ob5e27a02c531093a@mail.gmail.com> ``` Alex Riesen wrote: > On 3/2/06, Christopher Faylor wrote: > > > > Are we *really* contemplating porting git to native Windows? > > > > Actually, I wasn't thinking about that when I was writing that mail, > but ... why not? > Cygwin makes syscalls many times slower, git is very slow on > windows, users (well, I) want it faster, so if the needed api subset > can be narrowed down to a reasonable amount of work - I think > I'd give the idea a try. I'd certainly appreciate faster response times from GIT on Windows. Hell, I'd port GIT myself and cross my fingers that Junio, et. al. would be open to accepting the changes into the tree. But right now I don't really have a Windows development environment available to me that I can hack on releasable changes from (damn lawyers and those agreements about things on work computers being owned by work). If I get time I'll try rebuilding a system at home that is currently offline due to failed disk as a Windows development environment. -- Shawn. ``` ## Johannes Schindelin, 2006-03-02 17:33 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/Pine.LNX.4.63.0603021833360.31727%40wbgn013.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de In-Reply-To: <81b0412b0603020833j214556bek887c53a3ef43fd58@mail.gmail.com> ``` Hi, On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Alex Riesen wrote: > On 3/2/06, Johannes Schindelin wrote: > > > > > 1. opened and mmaped files can't be removed or renamed > > > (caused workaround with reading index in memory) > > > > It was not the locking which caused the workaround. It was the > > not-working. (I still have to find a Windows machine where git-whatchanged > > does not segfault without NO_MMAP.) > > me too. It crashes everywhere here. > > > > 4. non-unix permissions model > > > (breaks x-attr) > > > 5. real slow filesystems and caching > > > (makes everything slow. I noticed I'm trying to avoid git status!). > > > Caused workaround with manual checkout) > > > 6. real slow program startup > > > (makes everything slow, eventually may cause everything being put > > > in one super-executable, just to avoid spawning new processes, > > > with all associated problems. Makes scripting harder) > > > > Except for (4), these issues should be resolvable by the libifying effort. > > > > How can it help with 5? Less accesses to index? Exactly. Ciao, Dscho ``` ## Alex Riesen, 2006-03-02 19:54 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <20060302195450.GB6183@steel.home> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20060302195450.GB6183%40steel.home In-Reply-To: <4fb292fa0603020757q4cd3e80cjbb63d0dc58d19756@mail.gmail.com> ``` Bertrand Jacquin, Thu, Mar 02, 2006 16:57:42 +0100: > > Is the goal to have something like a git-turtoise (as {svn,cvs}-turtoise) ? > I personaly think that is could be benefic. > Not in the original post. It just about making git faster and more stable in Windows. ``` ## Christopher Faylor, 2006-03-02 19:59 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <20060302195948.GA10740@trixie.casa.cgf.cx> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20060302195948.GA10740%40trixie.casa.cgf.cx In-Reply-To: <20060302195450.GB6183@steel.home> ``` On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 08:54:50PM +0100, Alex Riesen wrote: >Bertrand Jacquin, Thu, Mar 02, 2006 16:57:42 +0100: >>Is the goal to have something like a git-turtoise (as >>{svn,cvs}-turtoise) ? I personaly think that is could be benefic. > >Not in the original post. It just about making git faster and more >stable in Windows. Can I request that people stop cc'ing me in this thread? I'd like to cut down on the blood pressure medication if I can. cgf ``` ## Andreas Ericsson, 2006-03-02 20:07 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: <44075084.6020602@op5.se> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/44075084.6020602%40op5.se In-Reply-To: <20060302195948.GA10740@trixie.casa.cgf.cx> ``` Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 08:54:50PM +0100, Alex Riesen wrote: > >>Bertrand Jacquin, Thu, Mar 02, 2006 16:57:42 +0100: >> >>>Is the goal to have something like a git-turtoise (as >>>{svn,cvs}-turtoise) ? I personaly think that is could be benefic. >> >>Not in the original post. It just about making git faster and more >>stable in Windows. > > > Can I request that people stop cc'ing me in this thread? > That's most likely because people hit "reply all" so the reply goes to the list as well. A "normal" reply would go only to you. -- Andreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se OP5 AB www.op5.se Tel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231 ``` ## Eric W. Biederman, 2006-03-31 19:25 Subject: Re: windows problems summary Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/m1acb6a01w.fsf%40ebiederm.dsl.xmission.com In-Reply-To: <81b0412b0603020649u99a2035i3b8adde8ddce9410@mail.gmail.com> ``` "Alex Riesen" writes: > This is just to summarize all the problems which make porting to that > thing so boring. Maybe if we have them all on one page, it'd be easier > to locate the workarounds (it can be one thread, for example). > > 1. opened and mmaped files can't be removed or renamed > (caused workaround with reading index in memory) > 2. command can safely contain only one argument > (breaks and complicates passing things between processes) > 3. no fork > (slows down and complicates passing things between processes) > 4. non-unix permissions model > (breaks x-attr) > 5. real slow filesystems and caching > (makes everything slow. I noticed I'm trying to avoid git status!). > Caused workaround with manual checkout) > 6. real slow program startup > (makes everything slow, eventually may cause everything being put > in one super-executable, just to avoid spawning new processes, > with all associated problems. Makes scripting harder) > > I hope this message can be a start of a big porting thread, > even though it is only about windows at the moment. Not to forget make install gets confused when there is a file named INSTALL in the git directory. Eric ```