threads / discuss / 26710

Re: GSoC resumable clone

Subject: Re: GSoC resumable clone

## tl;dr

7 messages between Mar 11, 2011 and Mar 11, 2011.

replies: 6people: 4as markdown or json

Shawn Pearce· Mar 11, 2011, 15:17 UTC · lore
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 06:10, Alexander Miseler <alexander@miseler.de> wrote:
Show 10 quoted lines
> On 11.03.2011 14:48, Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 01:18:45PM +0100, Alexander Miseler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Resumable clone
>>
>> A simpler way to restartable clone is to facilitate bundles (Nicolas'
>> idea). Some glue is needed to teach git-fetch/git-daemon to use the
>> bundles, and git-push to automatically create bundles periodically (or
>> a new command that can be run from cron). I think this way fit in GSoC
>> scope better.

I think the cached bundle idea is horrifically stupid in the face of the subsequent cached pack idea. JGit already implements cached packs, and it works very well. The feature just needs to be back-ported to builtin/pack-objects.c, along with some minor edits to my RFC patch to git-repack.sh to be able to construct the cached pack.

Unlike a cached bundle, the cached pack doesn't eat up useless disk space on the server. Its still the only copy of the object content, which keeps server disk usage (and buffer cache usage) lower.

A protocol extension in the fetch-pack/upload-pack protocol is required to allow pack-objects to delimit the early thin-pack from the later cached pack, as well as supply the cached-pack's identity. A client who breaks the connection after the leading thin-pack has been received could restart by downloading the cached pack from a specific starting byte.

Without waiting for pack v4, cached packs can shave a full minute of server CPU time during a clone of the linux-2.6 kernel. That's nothing to laugh at, its a full CPU minute. These days a full CPU minute is a lot of computational work. It also is pretty backwards compatible with the current network protocol, even ancient Git clients can still use the cached pack during an initial clone, saving a lot of server resources.

With cached packs, organizations like Gentoo wouldn't need to implement bizarre hacks in their upload-pack binary to prevent clones over git:// from their servers.

Its also well within GSoC size scope. I think the hard part is understanding enough of how the revision walker works inside of pack-objects in order to construct the leading thin-pack.

Show 12 quoted lines
>> [1] The idea of my work above was mentioned elsewhere, history is cut
>> down by path. Each file/dir's history a very long chain of deltas. We
>> can stream deltas (in parallel if needed) over the wire, resuming
>> where the chain stops last time.
>
> This may all be aiming to short. IMHO the best solution would be some
> generic way for the client to specify exactly what it wants to get and to
> get just that. This would lay the groundwork for:
> - lazy clones
> - sparse clones
> - resumable cloning
> - resumable fetching

Junio and I would like see narrow checkout code re-implemented to support obtaining only a subset of the paths from the remote.

Once that is implemented, a client on a really bad network connection could do a resumable clone by grabbing a shallow clone of depth 1 along no paths, partition the root tree up, then extend its paths grabbing subdirectories until the root commit is fully expanded. Then it can walk back increasing its depth until it runs into the cached pack... where it can then do byte range requests.

This won't be pretty. And given that the leading thin-pack for a cached pack can be less than 2% of the entire data transfer, may not be necessary for a resumable clone. IMHO if you cannot get 2% of the data transfer before your connection breaks, maybe you should ask for the data on DVD via post, because your network sucks.

-- 
Shawn.
Jeff King· Mar 11, 2011, 15:37 UTC · re: Shawn Pearce · lore
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 07:17:31AM -0800, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
Show 11 quoted lines
> >> A simpler way to restartable clone is to facilitate bundles (Nicolas'
> >> idea). Some glue is needed to teach git-fetch/git-daemon to use the
> >> bundles, and git-push to automatically create bundles periodically (or
> >> a new command that can be run from cron). I think this way fit in GSoC
> >> scope better.
> 
> I think the cached bundle idea is horrifically stupid in the face of
> the subsequent cached pack idea. JGit already implements cached packs,
> and it works very well. The feature just needs to be back-ported to
> builtin/pack-objects.c, along with some minor edits to my RFC patch to
> git-repack.sh to be able to construct the cached pack.

I think there is room for both ideas. The cached bundle idea is not just "here, download this bundle first". It is "here, download this _other thing_ first, which might be a bundle, another git repo, a torrent, etc".

So yeah, cached packs are a way better solution if you are just going to have an extra bundle on the same machine. But that's just one use case. The ability for my server to say "go hit kernel.org first, and then come back to me to pick up the deltas" is also valuable. Similarly, the ability to serve an initial bundle off a torrent is useful for extremely large projects.

-Peff
Shawn Pearce· Mar 11, 2011, 15:41 UTC · re: Jeff King · lore
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 07:37, Jeff King <peff@peff.net> wrote:
Show 18 quoted lines
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 07:17:31AM -0800, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
>
>> >> A simpler way to restartable clone is to facilitate bundles (Nicolas'
>> >> idea). Some glue is needed to teach git-fetch/git-daemon to use the
>> >> bundles, and git-push to automatically create bundles periodically (or
>> >> a new command that can be run from cron). I think this way fit in GSoC
>> >> scope better.
>>
>> I think the cached bundle idea is horrifically stupid in the face of
>> the subsequent cached pack idea. JGit already implements cached packs,
>> and it works very well. The feature just needs to be back-ported to
>> builtin/pack-objects.c, along with some minor edits to my RFC patch to
>> git-repack.sh to be able to construct the cached pack.
>
> I think there is room for both ideas. The cached bundle idea is not just
> "here, download this bundle first". It is "here, download this _other
> thing_ first, which might be a bundle, another git repo, a torrent,
> etc".

Fair enough. Though I wouldn't limit this to bundles. Instead I would suggest supporting any valid Git URLs, and then extend our URL syntax to support bundles over http://, rsync://, and torrent.

Show 6 quoted lines
> So yeah, cached packs are a way better solution if you are just going to
> have an extra bundle on the same machine. But that's just one use case.
> The ability for my server to say "go hit kernel.org first, and then come
> back to me to pick up the deltas" is also valuable. Similarly, the
> ability to serve an initial bundle off a torrent is useful for extremely
> large projects.

If we support any URL and don't assume the URL is a bundle, you can point traffic at kernel.org to for example grab Linus' primary repository first, even if he doesn't have a bundle.

-- 
Shawn.
Jeff King· Mar 11, 2011, 15:48 UTC · re: Shawn Pearce · lore
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 07:41:14AM -0800, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
Show 8 quoted lines
> > I think there is room for both ideas. The cached bundle idea is not just
> > "here, download this bundle first". It is "here, download this _other
> > thing_ first, which might be a bundle, another git repo, a torrent,
> > etc".
> 
> Fair enough. Though I wouldn't limit this to bundles. Instead I would
> suggest supporting any valid Git URLs, and then extend our URL syntax
> to support bundles over http://, rsync://, and torrent.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was limited to bundles. It would support arbitrary URLs or schemes. See this thread for some past discussion:

  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/164700
> If we support any URL and don't assume the URL is a bundle, you can
> point traffic at kernel.org to for example grab Linus' primary
> repository first, even if he doesn't have a bundle.
Exactly.
-Peff
Ilari Liusvaara· Mar 11, 2011, 20:50 UTC · re: Jeff King · lore
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:48:22AM -0500, Jeff King wrote:
Show 9 quoted lines
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 07:41:14AM -0800, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:
> 
> > Fair enough. Though I wouldn't limit this to bundles. Instead I would
> > suggest supporting any valid Git URLs, and then extend our URL syntax
> > to support bundles over http://, rsync://, and torrent.
> 
> Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was limited to bundles. It would
> support arbitrary URLs or schemes. See this thread for some past
> discussion:

Security pitfall: You need a way to restrict URL schemes that can be specified from the remote. Some URL schemes are wildly unsafe to use that way (or just don't make sense).

The URL schemes where it is safe and makes sense are (at least):
- git://
- ssh:// (and the scp syntax)
- http://
- ftp://
- https://
- ftps://
- rsync://
- file:// (?)

New capabilities perhaps? This would allow allowing it on per-remote-helper basis if that remote helper is deemed safe to be able to receive arbitrary URLs from untrusted sources.

-Ilari
Jeff King· Mar 11, 2011, 21:43 UTC · re: Ilari Liusvaara · lore
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:50:41PM +0200, Ilari Liusvaara wrote:
Show 7 quoted lines
> > Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was limited to bundles. It would
> > support arbitrary URLs or schemes. See this thread for some past
> > discussion:
> 
> Security pitfall: You need a way to restrict URL schemes that can
> be specified from the remote. Some URL schemes are wildly unsafe
> to use that way (or just don't make sense).
Did you mean on the server end? Or the client?

If the server, then I think no, it's a client decision. If on the client end, then yes, but it's one of many criteria.

The server end provides specially-formed refs that mention alternate locations. The client decides which of those locations, if any, meet its criteria for mirroring, including but not limited to:

  1. Whether the client supports the protocol in question (not everybody
     will be able to torrent, for example).
  2. Whether the client's network allows it (e.g., restrictive proxies).
  3. Whether it meets the client's security requirements (e.g., we
     probably shouldn't accept file:// URLs at all).

But it's clear to me that the security decision is only one of many criteria, and that the client is in a much better place to make those decisions. And that some of those decisions are going to have to be configurable by the user.

So yes, I agree we shouldn't blindly follow URLs.
-Peff
Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy· Mar 11, 2011, 15:42 UTC · re: Shawn Pearce · lore
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Shawn Pearce <spearce@spearce.org> wrote:
Show 6 quoted lines
> I think the cached bundle idea is horrifically stupid in the face of
> the subsequent cached pack idea. JGit already implements cached packs,
> and it works very well. The feature just needs to be back-ported to
> builtin/pack-objects.c, along with some minor edits to my RFC patch to
> git-repack.sh to be able to construct the cached pack.
> ...

I wonder why I missed it. Probably to recent and has not be carved to my mind yet.

> Junio and I would like see narrow checkout code re-implemented to
> support obtaining only a subset of the paths from the remote.

I'm close to finishing negative pathspecs (for extending narrow clones). I'll get there.

Show 6 quoted lines
> Once that is implemented, a client on a really bad network connection
> could do a resumable clone by grabbing a shallow clone of depth 1
> along no paths, partition the root tree up, then extend its paths
> grabbing subdirectories until the root commit is fully expanded. Then
> it can walk back increasing its depth until it runs into the cached
> pack... where it can then do byte range requests.

Yes. But then it'll cost server's processing power more. Partitioning by path reduces chances of reusing deltas a lot.

-- 
Duy

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