# Splitting the mailing list up 19 messages from 2010-09-25 to 2010-10-02. Participants: Rico Secada, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Jay Soffian, walter harms, Sebastien Douche, Wincent Colaiuta, Nicolas Sebrecht, Adrian Buehlmann, Michael J Gruber, Erik Faye-Lund, Sverre Rabbelier, Leonid Podolny, Brandon Casey. Thread: https://gitlist.dev/t/25246 ## Rico Secada, 2010-09-25 21:00 Subject: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <20100925230022.6e2fd389.coolzone@it.dk> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20100925230022.6e2fd389.coolzone%40it.dk ``` Hi all. Would it be a bad idea to split the Git mailing list up in several sub-categories? Example: announce@ dev@ user@ etc. The list receives a lot of traffic and it might be beneficial to split things up. Anyway, just a suggestion. Best regards. Rico ``` ## Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, 2010-09-25 21:05 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTikHNhRTTvcpj_30fUBbxv8-qG9HfTTO%2BXkLJgam%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20100925230022.6e2fd389.coolzone@it.dk> ``` On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:00, Rico Secada wrote: > The list receives a lot of traffic and it might be beneficial to split > things up. Why is a lot of traffic a bad thing? E.g. if you don't want all the patch submissions you can just filter out PATCH. ``` ## Rico Secada, 2010-09-25 21:19 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <20100925231935.8fa0b946.coolzone@it.dk> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20100925231935.8fa0b946.coolzone%40it.dk In-Reply-To: ``` On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:05:12 +0000 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:00, Rico Secada wrote: > > The list receives a lot of traffic and it might be beneficial to > > split things up. > > Why is a lot of traffic a bad thing? I didn't say it was a bad thing :) I was looking at this from a "relevancy" point of view. Kinda like the way Debian or FreeBSD has split their lists up. > E.g. if you don't want all the patch submissions you can just filter > out PATCH. That's one way to do it, but I think splitting things up is better. Some people live on limited bandwidth and it takes time to download all emails, especially if you are subscribing to other mailing lists as well. > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html ``` ## Jay Soffian, 2010-09-26 06:52 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTineNLysroH%2BLGD6ah7WMcLp6e0sU1-uxmcgWHG5%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20100925231935.8fa0b946.coolzone@it.dk> ``` On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Rico Secada wrote: > That's one way to do it, but I think splitting things up is better. Hi. You seem to be new here. Let me direct you to some previous discussions of this topic: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/60610/focus=60655 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/105417/focus=105606 j. ``` ## walter harms, 2010-09-26 15:58 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <4C9F6DC1.3080506@bfs.de> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/4C9F6DC1.3080506%40bfs.de In-Reply-To: <20100925230022.6e2fd389.coolzone@it.dk> ``` +1 Rico Secada schrieb: > Hi all. > > Would it be a bad idea to split the Git mailing list up in several > sub-categories? > > Example: > > announce@ > dev@ > user@ > > etc. > > The list receives a lot of traffic and it might be beneficial to split > things up. > > Anyway, just a suggestion. > > Best regards. > > Rico > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > ``` ## Sebastien Douche, 2010-09-26 16:02 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTikXSfO0uGP1b20jkF09%3DMfq0s0%2B4d4_ANeprXF_%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20100925230022.6e2fd389.coolzone@it.dk> ``` On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 23:00, Rico Secada wrote: > Would it be a bad idea to split the Git mailing list up in several > sub-categories? > > Example: > > announce@ > dev@ > user@ Why not, but the simple way is to create another ml for patchs. Without patchs, the traffic seems relatively low. -- Sebastien Douche Twitter: http://bit.ly/afkrK (agile, lean, python, open source) ``` ## Wincent Colaiuta, 2010-09-26 17:30 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <8AE74FC9-6C7F-433E-A162-E56644847198@wincent.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/8AE74FC9-6C7F-433E-A162-E56644847198%40wincent.com In-Reply-To: ``` El 26/09/2010, a las 18:02, Sebastien Douche escribió: > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 23:00, Rico Secada wrote: >> Would it be a bad idea to split the Git mailing list up in several >> sub-categories? >> >> Example: >> >> announce@ >> dev@ >> user@ > > Why not, but the simple way is to create another ml for patchs. > Without patchs, the traffic seems relatively low. This has come up many times, and been rejected each time. Check the archives for the reasons why. Cheers, Wincent ``` ## Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, 2010-09-26 18:54 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTik3ES08H1VSaGxv7aDoV3Ki_Y2ea2dHYqem0S28%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <8AE74FC9-6C7F-433E-A162-E56644847198@wincent.com> ``` On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 17:30, Wincent Colaiuta wrote: > El 26/09/2010, a las 18:02, Sebastien Douche escribió: > >> On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 23:00, Rico Secada wrote: >>> Would it be a bad idea to split the Git mailing list up in several >>> sub-categories? >>> >>> Example: >>> >>> announce@ >>> dev@ >>> user@ >> >> Why not, but the simple way is to create another ml for patchs. >> Without patchs, the traffic seems relatively low. > > This has come up many times, and been rejected each time. Check the archives for the reasons why. Right, but for the *main* mailing list. However if Rico, Walter and others would find a limited traffic mailing list valuable there's nothing stopping them from setting one up. Jay linked to an archive where someone is running RSS feeds of the different parts of the git list, similarly you could set up a git-user list which would be a version of the git list filtered to reduce patch traffic. Maybe that list wouldn't make much sense when patches are intermingled with regular discussion, but it's worth a try. ``` ## Nicolas Sebrecht, 2010-09-27 16:53 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <20100927165356.GA13032@vidovic> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/20100927165356.GA13032%40vidovic In-Reply-To: ``` The 26/09/10, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > Right, but for the *main* mailing list. However if Rico, Walter and > others would find a limited traffic mailing list valuable there's > nothing stopping them from setting one up. > > Jay linked to an archive where someone is running RSS feeds of the > different parts of the git list, similarly you could set up a git-user > list which would be a version of the git list filtered to reduce patch > traffic. > > Maybe that list wouldn't make much sense when patches are intermingled > with regular discussion, but it's worth a try. zsh mailing lists(1) are splitted in users and workers where submissions in the users list are forwarded to workers. This looks like a good solution for the git mailing list(s), IMHO. 1. http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Arc/mlist.html -- Nicolas Sebrecht ``` ## Adrian Buehlmann, 2010-09-28 06:22 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <4CA1899F.2020509@cadifra.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/4CA1899F.2020509%40cadifra.com In-Reply-To: <20100925230022.6e2fd389.coolzone@it.dk> ``` On 25.09.2010 23:00, Rico Secada wrote: > Hi all. > > Would it be a bad idea to split the Git mailing list up in several > sub-categories? > > Example: > > announce@ > dev@ > user@ > > etc. > > The list receives a lot of traffic and it might be beneficial to split > things up. > I think this would definitely be an improvement for git users. At least splitting up into dev and user, like Mercurial does it too (which I am used to). Not sure about announce though. When I recently subscribed to this list (after having been a long time subscriber to the Mercurial lists too), I was interested in seeing discussions about git usage to help me get started with git. I also think searching the archives would be a bit easier if discussions of new git development details and its usage would be separated. ``` ## Sebastien Douche, 2010-09-29 07:56 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTimes-ds-C1%2B_tdTW2vCdBR9gC7hTNhsyMoCu%2BrS%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4CA1899F.2020509@cadifra.com> ``` On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 08:22, Adrian Buehlmann wrote: > I think this would definitely be an improvement for git users. At least > splitting up into dev and user, like Mercurial does it too (which I am > used to). Not sure about announce though. So, what is the decision? Split or not split? -- Sebastien Douche Twitter: http://bit.ly/afkrK (agile, lean, python, open source) ``` ## Adrian Buehlmann, 2010-09-29 08:36 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <4CA2FA76.6080501@cadifra.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/4CA2FA76.6080501%40cadifra.com In-Reply-To: <141CAFB5-D423-48FE-BEED-B755C5F2685B@sb.org> ``` On 28.09.2010 22:06, Kevin Ballard wrote: > On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Adrian Buehlmann wrote: > >> I think this would definitely be an improvement for git users. At least >> splitting up into dev and user, like Mercurial does it too (which I am >> used to). Not sure about announce though. >> >> When I recently subscribed to this list (after having been a long time >> subscriber to the Mercurial lists too), I was interested in seeing >> discussions about git usage to help me get started with git. >> >> I also think searching the archives would be a bit easier if discussions >> of new git development details and its usage would be separated. > > Perhaps it would make more sense to simply create a new list for git > newbies to get help, and to not change the nature of this existing list > at all. Of course, I would be fine if this list here would be simply defined as the "git development centric list" and a new, more usage-centric list could be started (git-users ?). I wouldn't consider myself a complete newbie (given my DVCS knowledge I already have from my involvement in the Mercurial and TortoiseHg projects -- I contributed code to both of them). I was just interested in using git, not (yet) developing. This includes also advanced uses and problems advanced users may have with git (helping me to get a better understanding of git). ``` ## Michael J Gruber, 2010-09-29 09:08 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <4CA30201.5020006@drmicha.warpmail.net> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/4CA30201.5020006%40drmicha.warpmail.net In-Reply-To: <4CA2FA76.6080501@cadifra.com> ``` Adrian Buehlmann venit, vidit, dixit 29.09.2010 10:36: > On 28.09.2010 22:06, Kevin Ballard wrote: >> On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Adrian Buehlmann wrote: >> >>> I think this would definitely be an improvement for git users. At least >>> splitting up into dev and user, like Mercurial does it too (which I am >>> used to). Not sure about announce though. >>> >>> When I recently subscribed to this list (after having been a long time >>> subscriber to the Mercurial lists too), I was interested in seeing >>> discussions about git usage to help me get started with git. >>> >>> I also think searching the archives would be a bit easier if discussions >>> of new git development details and its usage would be separated. >> >> Perhaps it would make more sense to simply create a new list for git >> newbies to get help, and to not change the nature of this existing list >> at all. > > Of course, I would be fine if this list here would be simply defined as > the "git development centric list" and a new, more usage-centric list > could be started (git-users ?). You mean something like: git-users@googlegroups.com I don't participate there, but my impression is that it's really a user group. FWIW: When I was new, the volume over here was too much for me also, and simply filtering out all PATCH messages was a perfect solution. I've removed that filter meanwhile, though... Michael ``` ## Erik Faye-Lund, 2010-09-29 13:00 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTimPdqM_29Aru7tAGp_REem%2BBYAuE8o-U-qkhS6T%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4CA30201.5020006@drmicha.warpmail.net> ``` On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Michael J Gruber wrote: > Adrian Buehlmann venit, vidit, dixit 29.09.2010 10:36: >> On 28.09.2010 22:06, Kevin Ballard wrote: >>> On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Adrian Buehlmann wrote: >>> >>>> I think this would definitely be an improvement for git users. At least >>>> splitting up into dev and user, like Mercurial does it too (which I am >>>> used to). Not sure about announce though. >>>> >>>> When I recently subscribed to this list (after having been a long time >>>> subscriber to the Mercurial lists too), I was interested in seeing >>>> discussions about git usage to help me get started with git. >>>> >>>> I also think searching the archives would be a bit easier if discussions >>>> of new git development details and its usage would be separated. >>> >>> Perhaps it would make more sense to simply create a new list for git >>> newbies to get help, and to not change the nature of this existing list >>> at all. >> >> Of course, I would be fine if this list here would be simply defined as >> the "git development centric list" and a new, more usage-centric list >> could be started (git-users ?). > > You mean something like: > > git-users@googlegroups.com > > I don't participate there, but my impression is that it's really a user > group. > http://groups.google.com/group/git-users says "This is the git mailing list for users, feel free to ask any question about git usage.", so yes. I think we already have that list. Perhaps all we need to do is to add a link to it on the front-page of git-scm.com, next to the link to this? Perhaps something like "You can also ask the Git development community directly at our git@vger.kernel.org mailing list, or the Git user community at git-users@googlegroups.com"? That would imply making it a bit more official, but perhaps it's a good compromise? ``` ## Adrian Buehlmann, 2010-09-29 13:20 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: <4CA33D07.3000207@cadifra.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/4CA33D07.3000207%40cadifra.com In-Reply-To: ``` On 29.09.2010 15:00, Erik Faye-Lund wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Michael J Gruber > wrote: >> Adrian Buehlmann venit, vidit, dixit 29.09.2010 10:36: >>> On 28.09.2010 22:06, Kevin Ballard wrote: >>>> On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Adrian Buehlmann wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think this would definitely be an improvement for git users. At least >>>>> splitting up into dev and user, like Mercurial does it too (which I am >>>>> used to). Not sure about announce though. >>>>> >>>>> When I recently subscribed to this list (after having been a long time >>>>> subscriber to the Mercurial lists too), I was interested in seeing >>>>> discussions about git usage to help me get started with git. >>>>> >>>>> I also think searching the archives would be a bit easier if discussions >>>>> of new git development details and its usage would be separated. >>>> >>>> Perhaps it would make more sense to simply create a new list for git >>>> newbies to get help, and to not change the nature of this existing list >>>> at all. >>> >>> Of course, I would be fine if this list here would be simply defined as >>> the "git development centric list" and a new, more usage-centric list >>> could be started (git-users ?). >> >> You mean something like: >> >> git-users@googlegroups.com >> >> I don't participate there, but my impression is that it's really a user >> group. >> Oh. I didn't know that group existed. Interesting. Thanks for the pointer. > http://groups.google.com/group/git-users says "This is the git mailing > list for users, feel free to ask any question about git usage.", so > yes. I think we already have that list. Perhaps all we need to do is > to add a link to it on the front-page of git-scm.com, next to the link > to this? Perhaps something like "You can also ask the Git development > community directly at our git@vger.kernel.org mailing list, or the Git > user community at git-users@googlegroups.com"? > > That would imply making it a bit more official, but perhaps it's a > good compromise? At least it could be mentioned on https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitCommunity ? Anyway, I've now filtered the PATCH emails as suggested and I'll keep subscribed here :) Thanks for the hints and pointers, everyone. ``` ## Erik Faye-Lund, 2010-09-29 13:30 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTimLyYMpedvk1OWYxZDQWWY0VvVy9Sk3ZURUxQKd%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4CA33D07.3000207@cadifra.com> ``` On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Adrian Buehlmann wrote: > On 29.09.2010 15:00, Erik Faye-Lund wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Michael J Gruber >> wrote: >>> Adrian Buehlmann venit, vidit, dixit 29.09.2010 10:36: >>>> Of course, I would be fine if this list here would be simply defined as >>>> the "git development centric list" and a new, more usage-centric list >>>> could be started (git-users ?). >>> >>> You mean something like: >>> >>> git-users@googlegroups.com >>> >>> I don't participate there, but my impression is that it's really a user >>> group. >>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/git-users says "This is the git mailing >> list for users, feel free to ask any question about git usage.", so >> yes. I think we already have that list. Perhaps all we need to do is >> to add a link to it on the front-page of git-scm.com, next to the link >> to this? Perhaps something like "You can also ask the Git development >> community directly at our git@vger.kernel.org mailing list, or the Git >> user community at git-users@googlegroups.com"? >> >> That would imply making it a bit more official, but perhaps it's a >> good compromise? > > At least it could be mentioned on > https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitCommunity > ? Done. ``` ## Sverre Rabbelier, 2010-09-29 15:02 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTim2Zrj%2BVUirUL%2BcyfFnHRw6L9TST-p01yx1rtZS%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` Heya, On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 15:00, Erik Faye-Lund wrote: > http://groups.google.com/group/git-users says "This is the git mailing > list for users, feel free to ask any question about git usage.", so > yes. I think we already have that list. Perhaps all we need to do is > to add a link to it on the front-page of git-scm.com, next to the link > to this? Perhaps something like "You can also ask the Git development > community directly at our git@vger.kernel.org mailing list, or the Git > user community at git-users@googlegroups.com"? > > That would imply making it a bit more official, but perhaps it's a > good compromise? Perhaps we can just at 'git@vger.kernel.org' as one of the list users, so that all mails sent to git-users@googlegroups.com are forwarded to the git list? As long as the git-users group is open to all, that should Just Work, no? -- Cheers, Sverre Rabbelier ``` ## Leonid Podolny, 2010-10-02 18:26 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTik-%2B5uCuRkEqE6_e5dcYsY8vhbX-qYXpaL2f9CP%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20100925230022.6e2fd389.coolzone@it.dk> ``` On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Rico Secada wrote: > Hi all. > > Would it be a bad idea to split the Git mailing list up in several > sub-categories? > As far as I can tell, splitting a list into -dev and -user lists tends to drive the quality of the -user list down. The people with actual knowledge about the topic ask themselves: "Why do I keep answering questions from clueless noobs, while all the action I care about happens on another list?" and end up leaving the list altogether. I think that as long as the traffic on this list remains manageable, we should keep everything as-is. ``` ## Brandon Casey, 2010-10-02 21:33 Subject: Re: Splitting the mailing list up Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/AANLkTi%3DWRfbAa7Xb8PS63_DfKiZYwEsWSruivwtkVhWR%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Sverre Rabbelier wrote: > Heya, > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 15:00, Erik Faye-Lund wrote: >> http://groups.google.com/group/git-users says "This is the git mailing >> list for users, feel free to ask any question about git usage.", so >> yes. I think we already have that list. Perhaps all we need to do is >> to add a link to it on the front-page of git-scm.com, next to the link >> to this? Perhaps something like "You can also ask the Git development >> community directly at our git@vger.kernel.org mailing list, or the Git >> user community at git-users@googlegroups.com"? >> >> That would imply making it a bit more official, but perhaps it's a >> good compromise? > > Perhaps we can just at 'git@vger.kernel.org' as one of the list users, > so that all mails sent to git-users@googlegroups.com are forwarded to > the git list? As long as the git-users group is open to all, that > should Just Work, no? If it worked, it would be just like the zsh mailing list setup that was suggested, which is a good thing IMHO. If gmane is to be trusted (and if I parsed the output of: http://gmane.org/output-rate.php?group=gmane.comp.version-control.git correclty), then the git mailing list has received an average of about 80 messages per day in 2010. The "about" page for the git-users group seems to indicate that the group has received about 65 messages per _month_ over the last 4 higher-traffic-than-normal months. A drop in the bucket compared to the main mailing list. But, the "about" page here: http://groups.google.com/group/git-users/about also says: "Only members can post" That would need to be opened up so that non-members from the main git list could reply to posts originating from the "users" group. -Brandon ```