# Gui criticism 8 messages from 2009-12-05 to 2009-12-08. Participants: Ram Rachum, Michael J Gruber, Felipe Contreras, Martin Langhoff, Junio C Hamano, Marco Costalba. Thread: https://gitlist.dev/t/21871 ## Ram Rachum, 2009-12-05 18:51 Subject: Gui criticism Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/loom.20091205T194800-496%40post.gmane.org ``` Hello! This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI. (My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be helpful to you? Best Wishes, Ram Rachum. ``` ## Michael J Gruber, 2009-12-05 19:25 Subject: Re: Gui criticism Message-ID: <4B1AB39A.7080500@drmicha.warpmail.net> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/4B1AB39A.7080500%40drmicha.warpmail.net In-Reply-To: ``` Ram Rachum venit, vidit, dixit 05.12.2009 19:51: > Hello! > > This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git > for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI. > (My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be > helpful to you? No, unless they are specific bug reports. The main problem is that we have too many GUIs, and the "main" ones are in tcl/tk which not many people write. So there's a small developer base for the standard GUI, and the rest prefers to split up and each do their own GUI rather than work on a coordinated project. (I've tried to change that before.) Michael ``` ## Felipe Contreras, 2009-12-05 19:37 Subject: Re: Gui criticism Message-ID: <94a0d4530912051137u682a3a99ved9d19338b881b13@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/94a0d4530912051137u682a3a99ved9d19338b881b13%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` Hello Ram, On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Ram Rachum wrote: > This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git > for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI. > (My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be > helpful to you? I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this, that's why I just started a project in SourceForge, so that users can post these kinds of issues in the ideatorrent: https://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/git-ux/ideatorrent/ I haven't made the announcement yet, but soon :) -- Felipe Contreras ``` ## Martin Langhoff, 2009-12-05 19:51 Subject: Re: Gui criticism Message-ID: <46a038f90912051151g41acfa11j3746d7a8bb6ed969@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/46a038f90912051151g41acfa11j3746d7a8bb6ed969%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <94a0d4530912051137u682a3a99ved9d19338b881b13@mail.gmail.com> ``` On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this Mailing lists and face to face events are _the_ best places. > I just started a project in SourceForge A new project is for code. And the existing GUIs need help, your help, in the already existing mailing lists and codebases they have. >, so that users can post these > kinds of issues In a safe place where developers won't read? > I haven't made the announcement yet, but soon :) How about picking an existing git GUI project you're prepared to help, and... just... help? Code, documentation, screen mockups, graphic art? Is it too... normal? Maybe too... productive? m -- martin.langhoff@gmail.com martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ``` ## Junio C Hamano, 2009-12-05 20:14 Subject: Re: Gui criticism Message-ID: <7v3a3prxdt.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/7v3a3prxdt.fsf%40alter.siamese.dyndns.org In-Reply-To: <94a0d4530912051137u682a3a99ved9d19338b881b13@mail.gmail.com> ``` Felipe Contreras writes: > I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this, that's why > I just started a project in SourceForge, so that users can post these > kinds of issues in the ideatorrent: > https://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/git-ux/ideatorrent/ Two issues and a half offhand after entering one: - I found the experience of adding an "idea" too clunky and slow. Writing a well thought out e-mail can be done in the same time. - Although enforcing a minimum structure of "idea" description is a good thing to do, I found the current structure presented by that web page lacks focus. It has problem description and a rather broad and vague "idea", and it feels to me that it is promoting entering any garbage without discussing feasibility, "pros-and-cons" or necessary steps to achieve a particular goal. - The largest issue of this kind of system is who will be moderating and how capable they are. ``` ## Felipe Contreras, 2009-12-05 20:25 Subject: Re: Gui criticism Message-ID: <94a0d4530912051225y2d193a1fqfb38ebcce95719c3@mail.gmail.com> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/94a0d4530912051225y2d193a1fqfb38ebcce95719c3%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: <7v3a3prxdt.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> ``` On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Felipe Contreras writes: > >> I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this, that's why >> I just started a project in SourceForge, so that users can post these >> kinds of issues in the ideatorrent: >> https://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/git-ux/ideatorrent/ > > Two issues and a half offhand after entering one: > >  - I found the experience of adding an "idea" too clunky and slow. >   Writing a well thought out e-mail can be done in the same time. Yeah, I agree; it's too slow right now, but it's the only way I've found to host some kind of ideastorm. The difference with e-mails is that ideas get votes, which helps to find out what users really want: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ Also, the main action to do in this system should be "vote", that's the action that should be fast. >  - Although enforcing a minimum structure of "idea" description is a good >   thing to do, I found the current structure presented by that web page >   lacks focus.  It has problem description and a rather broad and vague >   "idea", and it feels to me that it is promoting entering any garbage >   without discussing feasibility, "pros-and-cons" or necessary steps to >   achieve a particular goal. That's why ideas go to a sandbox, and then maintainers approve or reject them. >  - The largest issue of this kind of system is who will be moderating and >   how capable they are. Indeed, that's one issue, but also, it needs a large inflow of votes, and when popular ideas are identified, then it needs people to actually implement them. -- Felipe Contreras ``` ## Junio C Hamano, 2009-12-05 20:41 Subject: Re: Gui criticism Message-ID: <7vhbs5qhlf.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org> URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/7vhbs5qhlf.fsf%40alter.siamese.dyndns.org In-Reply-To: <94a0d4530912051225y2d193a1fqfb38ebcce95719c3@mail.gmail.com> ``` Felipe Contreras writes: > Also, the main action to do in this system should be "vote", that's > the action that should be fast. Actually I do not think you would want that, especially as a moderator (I am assuming that you would be self-appointing to be one). What will you do to help a "broad, vague, and infeasible idea" forward when it gets many votes? That is why I prefer a system that requires substance when voicing an opinion ("Yes I like the solution because in addition to the original problem description it will also help this use case"), and it also is the reason I tend to ignore e-mails that only say "+1" on this list. In other words, this is not a democracy, and you do not necessarily want a democracy that is prone to populism. ``` ## Marco Costalba, 2009-12-08 07:12 Subject: Re: Gui criticism Message-ID: URL: https://gitlist.dev/e/e5bfff550912072312h159d8873sb96b3783c8c4e20f%40mail.gmail.com In-Reply-To: ``` On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 19:51, Ram Rachum wrote: > Hello! > > This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git > for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI. > (My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be > helpful to you? > Wrong approach. First do then ask. Is not so polite but is how it works in real word. :-) ```