Oldest supported Perl version

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 9:58 PM, Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:

15 minutes of research:

* 2006-06-25 Junio C Hamano: "Tentatively let's say our cut-off point is
  somewhere around 5.6." --
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/22607

* 2008-05-30 Lea Wiemann: "Gitweb relies on Unicode support (e.g. "use
  Encode") and will continue to be compatible with 5.8 and 5.10 only" --
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/83339

* 2008-08-13 Lea Wiemann: "This makes Git.pm dependent on Perl 5.6.1. Some
  tests (like t3701-add-interactive.sh) seem to work with pretty much any Perl
  version out there, and requiring File::Spec changes this" --
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/92260

* 2008-08-15 Marcus Griep: "Git.pm: Make File::Spec and File::Temp requirement
  lazy" -- c14c8ce

* 2008-08-30 Junio C Hamano: "I agree we should say we rely on 5.6 or newer."
  -- http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/94399

* 2008-09-01 Junio C Hamano: "I personally think it is probably Ok to declare
  that we do depend on 5.8" --
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/94523

So here's my take-away. For the *.perl scripts and gitweb, it's 5.8.0. For the test suite and Git.pm, all Perl versions are theoretically supported, but for practical purposes, it may be 5.6.0.

Whatever is decided this time, perhaps it should be burned into the tops of the *.perl scripts (i.e. "require 5.008;"). It should also be added to CodingGuidelines. You know, so this conversation doesn't keep recurring. :-)

j.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 09:59, Jay Soffian <jaysoffian@gmail.com> wrote:

	http://perldoc.perl.org/perl581delta.html#Future-Directions

The defined-OR only exists for 5.8.1 in patch form, and it's only directly supported in 5.10.0:

	http://perldoc.perl.org/perldelta.html#Defined-or-operator

:-(

====> Sorry for the repeat; I think I'll go install an MUA now.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 09:59, Jay Soffian <jaysoffian@gmail.com> wrote:

	http://perldoc.perl.org/perl581delta.html#Future-Directions

The defined-OR only exists for 5.8.1 in patch form, and it's only directly supported in 5.10.0:

	http://perldoc.perl.org/perldelta.html#Defined-or-operator

:-(

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Michael Witten <mfwitten@gmail.com> wrote:

I started this new thread to address Junio's question about the oldest supported Perl version, so that tidbit isn't really relevant and I should've trimmed it from the new thread. Nonetheless, thank you for the correction again again, and enjoy your new MUA. :-)

j.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:59:00 -0400, Jay Soffian <jaysoffian@gmail.com> wrote:

Being the maintainer of the defined-or patch for perl 5.8, I can short-circuit this

* defined-or (//) is officially available from perl-5.10.0 and up
  you can be *sure* to have it there. the 'err' keyword that was the
  low-precedence version for // is gone.

* defined-or is available in any version of perl 5.8.x is the binary
  was built with the appropriate patch, which is available on my CPAN
  directory:
  ftp://download.xs4all.nl/pub/mirror/CPAN/authors/id/H/HM/HMBRAND/
  These patches still include the 'err' keyword

* defined-or is definitely NOT available in 5.6.x

All my perl-5.8.x builds include this patch, so all people that use my perl builds on HP-UX, will have it available.

One major distribution also included it in their perl builds, but I do not remember which it is.

My personal preference for the lowest usable and reliable perl version is 5.8.5 (FWIW)

Hi,

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, H.Merijn Brand wrote:

Do you realize how much _pain_ you cause here? I just do not have the _time_ to recompile Perl 5.8 for msysGit!

Bah, Dscho "who thinks that a lot of people would not introduce dependencies so lightly if they actually felt the pain they cause"

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:29:03 +0200 (CEST), Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:

Me? Why? I just couldn't line *without* defined-or after I first encountered it, so I backported it to 5.8.x (after some patch from someone else) and people thought it would be a good idea to semi-officially allow it to be available for all.

Officially, defined-or is *NOT* available in perl-5.8.x. End of story.

*ALL* my production code expects defined-or to be available.

Sorry, I can't help you there

Jay Soffian <jaysoffian@gmail.com> writes:

Errr... no. For gitweb we require good Unicode support, which means Perl 5.8.x (IIRC 5.8.1). For all other: commands (and helpers) written in Perl like git-svn, fragments of Perl in test suite (because of incompatibility and corner cases of shell scripting) - with possible exception of testing gitweb, and Git.pm (which some commands in Perl use) I think it is reasonable to expect 5.6.0 at least.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:

Um, isn't that basically exactly what I said? The only difference is you're clarifying gitweb to be 5.8.1 instead of 5.8.0. Fine. that's why this went to the git list.

j.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Jay Soffian <jaysoffian@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh sorry, I see we differ on the *.perl scripts. You're saying 5.6 for those. I was suggesting 5.8 for the *.perl scripts based on:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/94523

Anyway, I see that there are basically a few categories to decide on:

1) gitweb
2) the *.perl scripts
3) Git.pm
4) the parts of the test suite that use perl

I think there is consensus that (1) is 5.8.1 for unicode reasons. (3) and (4), for all practical purposes, are apparently 5.6.0. So that leaves (2), which is either 5.6.0 or 5.8.1 depending upon which gmane thread you consult.

j.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 13:32, Jay Soffian <jaysoffian@gmail.com> wrote:

It looks like 5.6.0 was released a DECADE ago. Drop it.

My advice is to take the advice of Perl hacker H.Merijn Brand:

is 5.8.5 (FWIW)

Hi,

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Michael Witten wrote:

What part of "causing others a lot of pain" did you not understand, exactly?

Ciao, Dscho

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 14:11, Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:

I'd say: Take your own advice.

It's very likely that requiring compatibility with a DECADE old perl is going to cause others a lot of pain.

At some point, backward compatibility is just stupid; it's meant for TRANSITION.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:59:14 -0700 (PDT), Jakub Narebski <jnareb@gmail.com> wrote:

Unicode? 5.8.4 or up. Most desirable 5.8.5 5.8.1 is the worst distribution ever.

ask purl on irc :
 <Tux> purl, perl-5.8.1?
<purl> i guess perl-5.8.1 is made from blood, sweat, tears, coffee and single malt

5.6.1 or 5.8.5

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 16:10, H.Merijn Brand <h.m.brand@xs4all.nl> wrote:

But then you endorse 5.6.1?

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 17:38, Michael Witten <mfwitten@gmail.com> wrote:

That is:

But then you endorse 5.6.1 if 5.8.5 is not chosen.

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:39:34 -0500, Michael Witten <mfwitten@gmail.com> wrote:

5.6.1 and 5.6.2 are fine for non-Unicode environments.

When using Unicode (utf-8) and/or 64bit, I'd strongly advise not to go below 5.8.5

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:59:00AM -0400, Jay Soffian wrote:

I have no real comment on _which_ version, but yes, I think a 'require' for the right version would be very helpful. The error messages you get when running on a too-old version can be confusing, at best. Saying "you need a newer perl" would be much nicer.

-Peff