{"thread":{"id":"9569","subject":"Git User's Survey 2007","startedAt":"2007-08-18T23:28:41Z","lastAt":"2007-09-02T08:33:18Z","messageCount":28,"participants":["Jakub Narebski","Matthieu Moy","Jan Engelhardt","Shawn O. Pearce","Dan Chokola","David Kastrup","Benoit SIGOURE","Johannes Schindelin","Andreas Ericsson","Gábor Farkas","Mike Hommey","Torgil Svensson","Theodore Tso"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"50987","messageId":"200708190128.43515.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Git User's Survey 2007","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-08-18T23:28:41Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-18T23:28:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Hi all,\n\nWe would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the GIT\nversion control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\nusing GIT, how and why.\n\nThe results will be discussed on the git mailing list and published to \nthe GIT wiki at http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007\n\nWe'll close the survey in three weeks starting from 20 August 2007,\non 10 September 2007.\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple\nquestionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your\nneeds, what you like of GIT, and of course what you don't like of it.\n\nThe survey can be found here:\n http://www.survey.net.nz/survey.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9\n http://tinyurl.com/26774s\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\n"},{"id":"50989","messageId":"200708190159.43526.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708190128.43515.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-08-18T23:59:43Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-18T23:59:43Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"I have send this survey to git mailing list, LKML, Linux-MIPS, \nLinux-NFS, OpenVZ, Agave, collectd, DirectFB, ELinks, Lilypond, Herrie, \nnetconf, KDbg, Palava, OLPC, Project Sidestep, Sourcemage Linux distro, \nTangram 2, Thousand Parsec, U-Boot, X.Org, xcb, D-BUS, HAL, Cairo, \nMesa3D, WINE, XMMS2, XStrikeForce and LWN. Posts to X.Org, Thousand \nParsec were automatically rejected: probably subscribe only lists.\nPosts to OLPC, KDbg, Linux-NFS, HAL, XMMS2, Sourcemage Linux distro, \nElinks, collectd, netconf, Mesa3D, D-BUS, U-Boot wait for list \nmoderator approval.\n\n\n\nNOTE: if somebody has filled survey *before* official start, to be more \nexact before 16 August, he/she has only free-form answers saved (no \ncheckbox or radio button, i.e. single-answer or multiple-answer \nquestions), dues to my error when creating survey. Please fill those \nquestions (and only those questions) again.\n\nYou can check how survey.net viewed your answers at\n http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=single&qn=1304\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"50998","messageId":"vpq7inr3ehd.fsf@bauges.imag.fr","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708190159.43526.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007","fromName":"Matthieu Moy","fromEmail":"matthieu.moy@imag.fr","sentAt":"2007-08-19T12:17:50Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-19T12:17:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"git@matthieu-moy.fr","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/14709?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski writes:\n\n> I have send this survey to [...]\n\nPosted to linuxfr.org (french-speaking Linux and free-software news site)\n\nhttp://linuxfr.org/~moy/25128.html\n\n-- \nMatthieu\n"},{"id":"50999","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708191459270.6042@fbirervta.pbzchgretzou.qr","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708190128.43515.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007","fromName":"Jan Engelhardt","fromEmail":"jengelh@computergmbh.de","sentAt":"2007-08-19T13:03:03Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-19T13:03:03Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jengelh@computergmbh.de","avatar":null},"body":"\nOn Aug 19 2007 01:28, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>To: \nBcc: \n\nWhat's a Bcc good for if it ain't B. :)\n\n>The results will be discussed on the git mailing list and published to \n>the GIT wiki at http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007\n\nAnd http://www.survey.net.nz/results.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9\nFunny things there. \"x86_86\" arch - yep, I'd like to have that one too!\n\n\n\n\tJan\n-- \n"},{"id":"51531","messageId":"200708260026.57561.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708190159.43526.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-08-25T22:26:57Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-25T22:26:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"I couldn't find if the survey announcement made it to KDbg, collectd, \nnetconf and itools mailing lists: all of them are \"avaiting moderator \napproval\".\n\nI couldn't send announcement to elinks and revctrl mailing lists, as \nthey are [true] subscribe only. \n\nIf you subscribe to those lists, could you please check if announcement \nmade it, and if not, post \"Git User's Survey 2007\" anouncement? TIA.\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"51623","messageId":"200708270251.05762.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708190128.43515.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-08-27T00:51:05Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T00:51:05Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"This is partail summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 1 week of \nrunning. It is based on \"View Text Results\" page:\n http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304\n\nWe have around 445 individual responses, as compared to (I think) 115 \nanswers (Base = 115) for previous survey. That is quite a bit.\n\n\n04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?\n\nIt losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to \nPython; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with \nonly a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people \nproficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like\nnot many developers...\n\n\n19. How do you obtain GIT?\n\nAround twice as many people use binary packages as source tarball (or \nsource package, I think). Around half the people compiles its own git \n(pull is also followed by compilation).\n\n\n26. Which porcelains do you use?\n\nMost people use core-git, some use cogito (the fact that it was lately \ndeprecated and is no longer developed notwithstanding), some use StGIT,\n3 even use pg (despite it is unmaintained). More people use StGIT than \nGuilt, but this can be cause by the fact that Guilt (formerly gq) is \nyounger. Quite a bit use own scripts. 8 choose other... and there is no \n\"what other\" question, unfortunately...\n\n\n28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n\nMost use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit \n(Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and \nthere are 20 \"other\" answers, which I am most curious about. What are \nthey?\n\n\n39. Did you participate in previous Git User's Survey?\n\n43 people did out of 368 who answered this question, out of 115 who did \nparticipate in the previous survey. Bit curious.\n\n\n55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest \nto you/your organization?\n\nOnly 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to \nencompass people who do not use git for work).\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"51627","messageId":"20070827014034.GD18160@spearce.org","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708270251.05762.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2007-08-27T01:40:34Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T01:40:34Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?\n> \n> It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to \n> Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with \n> only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people \n> proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like\n> not many developers...\n\nRather sad given their user base. gitk seems to have at least 30%\nof the respondants while git-gui is somewhere between 10-14%,\ndepending upon the question asked. Odd. qgit has a smaller\nrespondant base (~7.7%) but is probably the tool that more Git\nusers would be comfortable hacking on since it is developed in C++.\n \n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"51630","messageId":"61e816970708262024m1cbbfd4dxfeb10b56397670b8@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708270251.05762.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Dan Chokola","fromEmail":"dan@chokola.com","sentAt":"2007-08-27T03:24:18Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T03:24:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dan@chokola.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?\n>\n> It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to\n> Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with\n> only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people\n> proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like\n> not many developers...\n>\n\nRuby people, represent! (Hopefully I'm not the only one.)\n\n> 28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n>\n> Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit\n> (Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and\n> there are 20 \"other\" answers, which I am most curious about. What are\n> they?\n>\n\nAll right! Someone actually uses my crappy Wit interface!\n\n> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest\n> to you/your organization?\n>\n> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to\n> encompass people who do not use git for work).\n>\n\nAre questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking towards going?\n\n> --\n> Jakub Narebski\n> Poland\n\n-- \nDan Chokola\n"},{"id":"51635","messageId":"85tzqla5tn.fsf@lola.goethe.zz","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708270251.05762.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"David Kastrup","fromEmail":"dak@gnu.org","sentAt":"2007-08-27T05:45:40Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T05:45:40Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dak@gnu.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/52141349?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski writes:\n\n> This is partail summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 1 week of \n> running. It is based on \"View Text Results\" page:\n> http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304\n>\n> We have around 445 individual responses, as compared to (I think) 115 \n> answers (Base = 115) for previous survey. That is quite a bit.\n>\n>\n> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?\n>\n> It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared\n> to Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular,\n> with only a few (if everything is all right with the results page)\n> people proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it\n> looks like not many developers...\n\nIf the few developers are efficient and responsive due to their choice\nof programming language, the net result might still work out fine.\nBut it might make the the project more susceptible to discontinuation\nif existing developers can't sustain their involvement for some\nreason. On the other hand, code being inscrutable because of not\nbeing expressible well in a more common language also carries its\ndangers.\n\n> 26. Which porcelains do you use?\n>\n> Most people use core-git, some use cogito (the fact that it was\n> lately deprecated and is no longer developed notwithstanding), some\n> use StGIT, 3 even use pg (despite it is unmaintained). More people\n> use StGIT than Guilt, but this can be cause by the fact that Guilt\n> (formerly gq) is younger.\n\nI found guilt essentially unusable for me due to its documentation.\nThere is only man-page level documentation for the various commands\ncomprising it, but the overall design is just \"this is just like patch\nsets in ...\" uh, Monotone? Don't remember which it was. Anyway, the\ndocs were quite useless to me as someone who did _not_ previously use\nthe system mentioned as reference.\n\n-- \nDavid Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum\n"},{"id":"51644","messageId":"2EFBBC8B-E785-4205-A7AA-7F03C3E92E1D@lrde.epita.fr","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708270251.05762.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Benoit SIGOURE","fromEmail":"tsuna@lrde.epita.fr","sentAt":"2007-08-27T08:07:35Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T08:07:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"tsunanet@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/128281?v=4"},"body":"On Aug 27, 2007, at 2:51 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> 28. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n>\n> Most use gitweb (which is distributed with git), 7 use cgit, 1 wit\n> (Ruby), most probably XMMS2 project, 1 git-php (I wonder who...), and\n> there are 20 \"other\" answers, which I am most curious about. What are\n> they?\n>\n\nI replied \"other\" because I didn't know whether all questions were \nmandatory or not :D\nI don't use a git web interface... for now.\n\nSo maybe 19 other people have been as dumb as me and replied \"other\" \nfor a similar reason :)\n\n-- \nBenoit Sigoure aka Tsuna\nEPITA Research and Development Laboratory\n\n\n"},{"id":"51658","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708270946280.28586@racer.site","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"61e816970708262024m1cbbfd4dxfeb10b56397670b8@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-08-27T08:48:46Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T08:48:46Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:\n\n> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>\n> > 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of \n> > interest to you/your organization?\n> >\n> > Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to \n> > encompass people who do not use git for work).\n> \n> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking \n> towards going?\n\nNo. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will \nprobably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial \nsupport scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.\n\nI for one could imagine training people, and giving technical support for \ncompanies needing that support.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"51662","messageId":"F4DF90B6-7169-4F67-B41D-4AF97D41C5E5@lrde.epita.fr","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708270946280.28586@racer.site","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Benoit SIGOURE","fromEmail":"tsuna@lrde.epita.fr","sentAt":"2007-08-27T08:57:16Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T08:57:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"tsunanet@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/128281?v=4"},"body":"On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n\n> Hi,\n>\n> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:\n>\n>> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>\n>>> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of\n>>> interest to you/your organization?\n>>>\n>>> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to\n>>> encompass people who do not use git for work).\n>>\n>> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking\n>> towards going?\n>\n> No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will\n> probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial\n> support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.\n>\n> I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical \n> support for\n> companies needing that support.\n\nYou seem to imply that GPLv3 would prevent any form of commercial \nsupport for Git...\n\nSection 4 of GPLv3:\n\"you may offer support or warranty protection for a fee.\"\n\n-- \nBenoit Sigoure aka Tsuna\nEPITA Research and Development Laboratory\n\n\n"},{"id":"51663","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708270959290.28586@racer.site","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"20070827014034.GD18160@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-08-27T09:01:07Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T09:01:07Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?\n> > \n> > It losk like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to \n> > Python; it looks like Python is more popular. C is most popular, with \n> > only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people \n> > proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like\n> > not many developers...\n> \n> Rather sad given their user base.\n\nNot only their user base, but also their portability. Tcl/Tk compile _out \nof the box_ on MinGW, for example. That is much more than can be said \nabout GTK, Python amongst others.\n\nBut then, Tcl is not _that_ difficult, and we're doing pretty fine, \nmethinks.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"51665","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708271026090.28586@racer.site","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"F4DF90B6-7169-4F67-B41D-4AF97D41C5E5@lrde.epita.fr","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-08-27T09:26:42Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T09:26:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Benoit SIGOURE wrote:\n\n> On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> \n> > On Sun, 26 Aug 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:\n> > \n> > > On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > > \n> > > > 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of\n> > > > interest to you/your organization?\n> > > > \n> > > > Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to\n> > > > encompass people who do not use git for work).\n> > > \n> > > Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking\n> > > towards going?\n> > \n> > No. These questions are just questions. Git is GPLv2, and it will\n> > probably stay that forever, so you are _free_ to start a commercial\n> > support scheme for Git, but others are free not to choose it.\n> > \n> > I for one could imagine training people, and giving technical support for\n> > companies needing that support.\n> \n> You seem to imply that GPLv3 would prevent any form of commercial \n> support for Git...\n\nNo, I was not. I was only being overly precise in my description. My \napologies ;-)\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"51669","messageId":"46D29F60.9080708@op5.se","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"61e816970708262024m1cbbfd4dxfeb10b56397670b8@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Andreas Ericsson","fromEmail":"ae@op5.se","sentAt":"2007-08-27T09:54:40Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T09:54:40Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"ae@op5.se","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/426e89595c75a8f5252dd0c989e5fabe5bcac616e68557427ad9aef6b0ca342a?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Dan Chokola wrote:\n> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> \n>> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest\n>> to you/your organization?\n>>\n>> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to\n>> encompass people who do not use git for work).\n>>\n> \n> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking towards going?\n> \n\nAs Dscho wrote, I should think not, but having a company basing its business\naround an opensource product usually means a lot of company-like features\nget implemented, such as various forms of reporting, documentation, integration\nwith bugtrackers and trouble-ticket systems, etc, etc...\n\nIt is the way of companies to throw money rather than competence at temporary\nproblems, while more altruistic organizations such as opensource projects do\nthe exact opposite.\n\nI for one would love if some support company could give git courses in sweden,\nsince that'd mean I wouldn't have to. ;-)\n\n-- \nAndreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se\nOP5 AB www.op5.se\nTel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231\n"},{"id":"51685","messageId":"200708271315.07919.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"20070827014034.GD18160@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-08-27T11:15:07Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T11:15:07Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n>> 04. Which programming languages are you proficient with?\n>> \n>> It look like there is only 3/4 people proficient in Perl as compared to \n>> Python; it looks like Python is more popular.\n\nI meant here that Perl to Python is around 3 to 4; more people are\nproficient in Python than in Perl.\n\n>> C is most popular, with \n>> only a few (if everything is all right with the results page) people \n>> proficient in Tcl/Tk. I'm sorry, git-gui and gitk guys; it looks like\n>> not many developers...\n> \n> Rather sad given their user base. gitk seems to have at least 30%\n> of the respondants while git-gui is somewhere between 10-14%,\n> depending upon the question asked. Odd. qgit has a smaller\n> respondant base (~7.7%) but is probably the tool that more Git\n> users would be comfortable hacking on since it is developed in C++.\n\nIt is not *that* bad, as there are 14 people proficient in Tcl/Tk,\nwhile there are 5 people who had made 5 or more commits to either\ngitk or git-gui. But it is not encouraging.\n\nI wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"51692","messageId":"46D2B567.4000005@nekomancer.net","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708271315.07919.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Gábor Farkas","fromEmail":"gabor@nekomancer.net","sentAt":"2007-08-27T11:28:39Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T11:28:39Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gabor@nekomancer.net","avatar":null},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> \n> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n\nGTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.\n\n\np.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using \nthe apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the \n'native' feeling, or try to make it run with the gtk-osx port, which is \nincomplete :)\n\ngabor\n"},{"id":"51691","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708271240050.28586@racer.site","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708271315.07919.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-08-27T11:42:21Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T11:42:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n\nIt is not. I ended my attempts with contempt after two weeks to compile \n_Python_ on MinGW. I came to the conclusion that the developers of Python \ndo not care about being able to compile Python on Windows with Open Source \ntools only.\n\nOf course, that means that you cannot compile Python modules with MinGW \n(at least as far as I know).\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"51694","messageId":"86wsvhrwsd.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"46D2B567.4000005@nekomancer.net","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"David Kastrup","fromEmail":"dak@gnu.org","sentAt":"2007-08-27T12:23:30Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T12:23:30Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dak@gnu.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/52141349?v=4"},"body":"Gábor Farkas writes:\n\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>\n>> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n>\n> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.\n>\n>\n> p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using\n> the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the\n> native' feeling,\n\nDoesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?\nBut at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.\n\n-- \nDavid Kastrup\n"},{"id":"51695","messageId":"20070827122720.GA7498@glandium.org","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"46D2B567.4000005@nekomancer.net","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Mike Hommey","fromEmail":"mh@glandium.org","sentAt":"2007-08-27T12:27:20Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T12:27:20Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mh@glandium.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1038527?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 01:28:39PM +0200, Gábor Farkas wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >\n> >I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n> \n> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.\n\nMaybe you're not aware of http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx\n\nMike\n"},{"id":"51699","messageId":"46D2CF73.4060903@nekomancer.net","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"86wsvhrwsd.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Gábor Farkas","fromEmail":"gabor@nekomancer.net","sentAt":"2007-08-27T13:19:47Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T13:19:47Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gabor@nekomancer.net","avatar":null},"body":"David Kastrup wrote:\n> Gábor Farkas writes:\n> \n>> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n>> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.\n>>\n>>\n>> p.s: there are some ways to make GTK run on osx, like running it using\n>> the apple x11-server, but then it looks ugly and does not have the\n>> native' feeling,\n> \n> Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?\n> But at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.\n> \n\nhmm.. he at least needs the X11 server installed (which is not \nby-default installed). but that's probably installed for a developer.\n\ngabor\n"},{"id":"51703","messageId":"46D2D22B.2060108@nekomancer.net","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"20070827122720.GA7498@glandium.org","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Gábor Farkas","fromEmail":"gabor@nekomancer.net","sentAt":"2007-08-27T13:31:23Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T13:31:23Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gabor@nekomancer.net","avatar":null},"body":"Mike Hommey wrote:\n> On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 01:28:39PM +0200, Gábor Farkas wrote:\n>> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n>> GTK does not run natively on osx, tcl/tk does.\n> \n> Maybe you're not aware of http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx\n> \n\nno, i am aware of it, i even mentioned it in my mail, in the P.S. section\n\n> or try to make it run with the gtk-osx port, which is incomplete :) \n\n\nfor example, on this page:\nhttp://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx/build-instructions\n\nthey write:\n\"\nNOTE: This is mainly meant for developers wanting to help out with GTK+ \nMac OS X, not for users. The port is not yet finished or usable for \nmainstream use.\n\"\n\ngabor\n"},{"id":"51709","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708271448590.28586@racer.site","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"46D2CF73.4060903@nekomancer.net","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-08-27T13:50:18Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T13:50:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\n> > Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native feeling?\n> > But at least a user does not have to invest much work to get there.\n\nFunny. _Even_ on this list, the git mailing list, there have been enough \nhints how to change the look and feel of Tcl/Tk. D'oh.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"51710","messageId":"86absdrsj3.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0708271448590.28586@racer.site","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"David Kastrup","fromEmail":"dak@gnu.org","sentAt":"2007-08-27T13:55:28Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T13:55:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dak@gnu.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/52141349?v=4"},"body":"Johannes Schindelin writes:\n\n>> > Doesn't Tcl/Tk also look ugly and does not have the native\n>> > feeling? But at least a user does not have to invest much work\n>> > to get there.\n>\n> Funny. _Even_ on this list, the git mailing list, there have been\n> enough hints how to change the look and feel of Tcl/Tk. D'oh.\n\nThe common user experience is not magically improved by somebody\nhaving discussed the problem somewhere sometime. D'oh.\n\n-- \nDavid Kastrup\n"},{"id":"51723","messageId":"e7bda7770708270842s57eea8a3jcc52e2e7e8464b75@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708271315.07919.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Torgil Svensson","fromEmail":"torgil.svensson@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-08-27T15:42:21Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T15:42:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"torgil.svensson@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 8/27/07, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> I wonder if PyGTK is as portable as Tcl/Tk...\n\nTk is integrated in the official Python library while PyGTK is not so\nI guess Tk wins even on Python (Idle [included editor] and matplotlib\nuses it as default).\n\nPyGTK works pretty well though even on win32 (after installing a\nhandful dependencies). I haven't tried to compile any of these myself\nthough, compiling these things on win32 is usually a PITA.\n\n//Torgil\n"},{"id":"51724","messageId":"20070827154351.GG4680@thunk.org","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"85tzqla5tn.fsf@lola.goethe.zz","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Theodore Tso","fromEmail":"tytso@mit.edu","sentAt":"2007-08-27T15:43:51Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T15:43:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"tytso@mit.edu","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/51416?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Aug 27, 2007 at 07:45:40AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:\n> I found guilt essentially unusable for me due to its documentation.\n> There is only man-page level documentation for the various commands\n> comprising it, but the overall design is just \"this is just like patch\n> sets in ...\" uh, Monotone? Don't remember which it was. Anyway, the\n> docs were quite useless to me as someone who did _not_ previously use\n> the system mentioned as reference.\n\nThe system guilt is more like is \"quilt\". For people who are using\npure patches to maintain changes against mainline, quilt is the \"rcs\"\nof that particular problem domain. It would probably be a good idea\nto have a pointer to Andreas Gruenbacher's, \"How To Surive With Many\nPatches or Introduction to Quilt\" paper.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t- Ted\n"},{"id":"51769","messageId":"200708280148.29702.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"61e816970708262024m1cbbfd4dxfeb10b56397670b8@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-08-27T23:48:29Z","receivedAt":"2007-08-27T23:48:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Aug 27, 2007, Dan Chokola wrote:\n> On 8/26/07, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n>> 55. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor be of interest\n>> to you/your organization?\n>>\n>> Only 44 answers yes, 217 no, 126 not applicable (which was menat to\n>> encompass people who do not use git for work).\n> \n> Are questions like this at all indicative of where Git is looking\n> towards going? \n\nThis question was actually requested on git mailing list to be in\nthe survey...\n\nThis question is to get to know if there is sufficient demand for\ncommercial git support for it to be viable. There are two possible\noutcomes:\n\nIf there is enough demand, then company selling git support can make\na living. Company selling support for git means more git user's (because\nsome corp needs to have commercial/external support to be present) and\npossibly more developers. It is possible that some revenue falls to main\ngit developers, be it by paying somebody to hack on git, or paying for\nsome feature or for fixing a bug fast.\n\nIf there is not enough demand, better to know it from onset that to have\ncompany which tries to provide git support bancrupt. No failed support\ncompany means no bad publicity on git; it _might_ mean that community\nsupport is enogh for git...\n\n\nNote that commercial (paid) support does not clash\nwith GPL. One does not need change in license to have commercial\ngit support. GPL allows paid support.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"52178","messageId":"200709021033.18990.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"9569","inReplyTo":"200708190128.43515.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Git User's Survey 2007 partial summary","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-09-02T08:33:18Z","receivedAt":"2007-09-02T08:33:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"This is partial summary of Git User's Survey 2007 after 2 weeks of \nrunning. It is based on \"View Text Results\" page:\n http://www.survey.net.nz/members.php?page=results&qn=1304\n\nThe same information but in graphical form you can see at\n http://www.survey.net.nz/results.php?94e135ff41e871a1ea5bcda3ee1856d9\n\n\n10. What other SCM did/do you use?\n\nNote that this question does not distinguish between SCMs/VCSs which \nwere used prior to Git and used no longer, SCMs which are used beside \n(in parallel) to Git perhaps interacting with Git, and SCMs which are \nused instead of Git. Also note that this is _Git User's_ survey, so it \nthose number for example do not represent number of e.g. users of \nMercurial as compared to e.g. users of Subversion.\n\nBelow there is table of SCM used, sorted by the number of responses.\nNote that annotations (like \"a little CVS\") were not weighted here.\n\nThere were 502 responses, 25 null responses (eviovalent to \"none\").\nOnly SCMs which has count more that 10 are shown. One person can (and \nusually did) chose more than one SCM.\n\n Name Count\n --------------------------------------------------\n Subversion 399\n CVS 362\n Mercurial 73\n Darcs 59\n GNU Arch 52\n RCS 45\n Bazaar-NG 40\n Perforce 34\n ClearCase 31\n Monotone 23\n BitKeeper 23\n Bazaar 17\n SVK 16\n SourceSafe 11\n SCCS 10\n\n tla+baz+bzr 109\n\nAs you can see two most popular SCMs are Subversion ('svn') and CVS, \nwith Subversion being slightly more popular. Among distributed SCMs \nwith most count are Mercurial ('hg') and Arch and its descendants \n('tla', 'baz', 'bzr').\n\n\n35. How does GIT compare to other SCM tools you have used?\n\n Answer Count\n ------------------------------------------------\n Better 388\n Comparable (equal) 73\n Worse 24\n\n TOTAL 485 (129 null)\n\nClearly Git is superior SCM! (In the minds of _Git users_) ;-)\nSeriously, one should take into consideration that those results\nare biased, because it is _Git User's_ Survey, and people usually\nchoose SCM because they think it is best choice.\n\nNo answer (null answer) might mean that responder does not use and did \nnot use other SCMs to compare, or at least think that he/she does not \nhave sufficient basis for a comparison.\n\n\n====================================================================\n\n26. Which porcelains do you use?\n\nMultiple answers (one can use more than one porcelain).\n\n Porcelain Count\n ------------------------------------------------\n core-git 428\n Cogito (deprecated) 45\n\n Patch management interface layers:\n ..................................\n StGIT 37\n Guilt (formerly gq) 13\n pg (deprecated, abandoned) 7\n\n my own scripts 74\n other 11\n\nIt is understandable that Cogito still has some users, even though it is \ndeprecated, and [I think] all of its functionality can be found in \ngit-core porcelain. It was meant as SCM / porcelain layer when git-core \ndidn't have it and consisted almost only of plumbing commands.\n\nQuite a bit of people use patch management interface: StGIT, Guilt, even \ndeprecated and abandoned pg (Patchy Git). StGIT has more users than \nGuilt, although that might be caused by the fact that StGIT was here \nlonger...\n\nIt is interesting that quite a bit of responders script their git usage: \n74 \"my own script\" users.\n\nI am wondering what those 11 other are...\n\n\n27. Which git GUI do you use?\n\nMultiple answers (one can use more than one GUI). Note that for the \nfirst week and a bit of survey \"CLI\" answer had no explanation that it \nmeans command line interface, so results might be bit skewed.\n\n GUI Count\n ------------------------------------------------\n CLI (command line) 295\n gitk 266\n git-gui 91\n qgit 68\n giggle 43\n gitview 13\n instaweb 13\n tig 38\n (h)gct 3\n qct 3\n KGit 7\n git.el 25\n other 10\n\n giggle + gitview 56\n\nAs one can see almost as many people use gitk as CLI. Most used GUI are \ngitk and git-gui, most probably because they are distributed with git, \nand because they are portable. QGit is also quite popular, although \nGTK+ viewers, namely giggle and gitview have the same count summary \n(note that there might be instances of users using both giggle and \ngitview). I am a bit suprised about Giggle, I'd say.\n\nTig (text-mode interface for git) and git.el (GIT mode for Emacs) are \nalso quite popular.\n\nI wonder what are those 10 other GUI... and I didn't provide \"What is \nthis 'other GUI'?\" question...\n\n\n=====================================================================\n\n44. Do you use the GIT wiki?\n\n 233 yes, 239 no, 112 no answer\n\n56. Do you read the mailing list? \n\n 168 yes, 303 no, 114 no answer\n\n59. Do you use the IRC channel (#git on irc.freenode.net)?\n\n 148 yes, 281 no, 198 no answer\n\n(I do wonder a bit about \"no answer\" here. Does it mean: \"There is git \nwiki/git mailing list/#git IRC channel?!? I didn't know.\"? Or does it \nmean something else: \"I was too tired to answer this question...\")\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"}]}