{"thread":{"id":"63749","subject":"[PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","startedAt":"2025-07-06T16:30:14Z","lastAt":"2025-07-16T14:41:56Z","messageCount":18,"participants":["brian m. carlson","Jacob Keller","Junio C Hamano","Ayush Chandekar","Theodore Ts'o","Phillip Wood","Jeff King","Martin Ågren","Patrick Steinhardt"],"isPatch":true,"patchVersion":1,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"521367","messageId":"20250706163009.335780-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"[PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"brian m. carlson","fromEmail":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","sentAt":"2025-07-06T16:30:09Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-06T16:30:14Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/497054?v=4"},"body":"Our submission guidelines require people to use their real name, but\nthis is not always suitable for various reasons.\n\nFor people who are transgender or non-binary and are transitioning or\nwho think they might want to transition, it can be a major obstacle and\ncause major discomfort to require the use of their real name. This is\nmade worse by the fact that Git provides no way to change names built\ninto history, so the use of a deadname is forever. Our code of conduct\nstates that we \"pledge to act and interact in ways that contribute to an\nopen, welcoming, diverse, inclusive, and healthy community,\" and\nchanging this policy is one way we can improve things for contributors.\n\nIn addition, there are some developers who are so widely known\npseudonymously that they have a Wikipedia page with their handle and no\nreal name. It would seem silly to reject patches from people who are\nknown and respected in their open-source community just because they\ndon't wish to share a real name.\n\nThere are also other good reasons why people might operate\npseudonymously: because they or their family members are well known and\nthey wish to protect their privacy, because of current or past\nharassment or retaliation or fear of that happening in the future, or\nbecause of concerns about unwanted attention from government officials\nor other authority figures. As much as possible, we want to welcome\ncontributions from anyone who is willing to participate positively in\nour community without having them worry about their safety or privacy.\n\nIn all of these cases, we should allow people to proceed using a\npreferred name or pseudonymously if, in their best judgment, that's the\nright thing to do. State that it is common to use a real name but\nexplicitly mention that contributors who are not comfortable doing so or\nprefer to operate pseudonymously or under a preferred name can proceed\notherwise. Use \"some form of your real name\" since some current\ncontributors use shortened forms of their name or use initials, which\nhave always been considered acceptable.\n\nRetain the prohibition on anonymous contributions that the Linux kernel\nhas to ensure that we have some line of provenance to a known (if\npseudonymous) author who might be able to respond to questions about it.\n\nThis helps guide people who would be fine using their real name but have\nmisconfigured `user.name` thinking it is intended to be a username or is\nused for authentication (despite our documentation to the contrary), but\nalso allows for a variety of circumstances where the contributor would\nfeel more comfortable not doing so.\n\nAdditionally, retain the section header ID for ease of linking across\nversions.\n\nSigned-off-by: brian m. carlson \n---\nI don't claim that this is the best possible wording and I'm open to\nchanging it. The term \"known identity\" comes from Linux, but if we\nneed to clarify using different language or otherwise change any part of\nthis up, we can do so.\n\n Documentation/SubmittingPatches | 7 +++++--\n 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)\n\ndiff --git a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\nindex 958e3cc3d5..a4f4ca0205 100644\n--- a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n+++ b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n@@ -408,8 +408,11 @@ your patch differs from project to project, so it may be different\n from that of the project you are accustomed to.\n \n [[real-name]]\n-Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n-don't hide your real name.\n+Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we\n+unfortunately cannot accept anonymous contributions. It is common to use some\n+form of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable\n+doing so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can\n+accept your patch either way.\n \n [[commit-trailers]]\n If you like, you can put extra trailers at the end:\n"},{"id":"521371","messageId":"CA+P7+xrZVG0piKt1gd7heEibdXud8Kt=2eGd0KvHTMwNp7RcWg@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250706163009.335780-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Jacob Keller","fromEmail":"jacob.keller@gmail.com","sentAt":"2025-07-06T19:36:40Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-06T19:36:51Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"jacob.keller@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/874719?v=4"},"body":"On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 9:30 AM brian m. carlson\n wrote:\n>\n> Our submission guidelines require people to use their real name, but\n> this is not always suitable for various reasons.\n>\n> For people who are transgender or non-binary and are transitioning or\n> who think they might want to transition, it can be a major obstacle and\n> cause major discomfort to require the use of their real name. This is\n> made worse by the fact that Git provides no way to change names built\n> into history, so the use of a deadname is forever. Our code of conduct\n> states that we \"pledge to act and interact in ways that contribute to an\n> open, welcoming, diverse, inclusive, and healthy community,\" and\n> changing this policy is one way we can improve things for contributors.\n>\n> In addition, there are some developers who are so widely known\n> pseudonymously that they have a Wikipedia page with their handle and no\n> real name. It would seem silly to reject patches from people who are\n> known and respected in their open-source community just because they\n> don't wish to share a real name.\n>\n> There are also other good reasons why people might operate\n> pseudonymously: because they or their family members are well known and\n> they wish to protect their privacy, because of current or past\n> harassment or retaliation or fear of that happening in the future, or\n> because of concerns about unwanted attention from government officials\n> or other authority figures. As much as possible, we want to welcome\n> contributions from anyone who is willing to participate positively in\n> our community without having them worry about their safety or privacy.\n>\n> In all of these cases, we should allow people to proceed using a\n> preferred name or pseudonymously if, in their best judgment, that's the\n> right thing to do. State that it is common to use a real name but\n> explicitly mention that contributors who are not comfortable doing so or\n> prefer to operate pseudonymously or under a preferred name can proceed\n> otherwise. Use \"some form of your real name\" since some current\n> contributors use shortened forms of their name or use initials, which\n> have always been considered acceptable.\n>\n> Retain the prohibition on anonymous contributions that the Linux kernel\n> has to ensure that we have some line of provenance to a known (if\n> pseudonymous) author who might be able to respond to questions about it.\n>\n> This helps guide people who would be fine using their real name but have\n> misconfigured `user.name` thinking it is intended to be a username or is\n> used for authentication (despite our documentation to the contrary), but\n> also allows for a variety of circumstances where the contributor would\n> feel more comfortable not doing so.\n>\n> Additionally, retain the section header ID for ease of linking across\n> versions.\n>\n> Signed-off-by: brian m. carlson \n> ---\n\nI wholeheartedly agree with this suggested change.\n\nReviewed-by: Jacob Keller \n"},{"id":"521403","messageId":"xmqqv7o4ajq1.fsf@gitster.g","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250706163009.335780-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2025-07-07T01:11:02Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-07T01:11:04Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"\"brian m. carlson\" writes:\n\n> Our submission guidelines require people to use their real name, but\n> this is not always suitable for various reasons.\n> ...\n\nAnother thing to consider, which may matter even more in the context\nof SubmittingPatches, is if it is necessary. If there is a\nrequirement, which may or may not be the \"real name\", that is\nessential to keep DCO enforceable, we will not be able to drop such\nan essential requirement, even if it is \"not suitable\" for some\npeople. We would have to rather ask these people refrain from\ncontributing.\n\nBut if a requirment we currently have, like \"real name\", is not\nnecessary and if \"known identity\" is sufficient, then by all means,\nlet's make sure we can loosen the wording to make it \"suitable\" to\nmore people.\n\n> In addition, there are some developers who are so widely known\n> pseudonymously that they have a Wikipedia page with their handle and no\n> real name. It would seem silly to reject patches from people who are\n> known and respected in their open-source community just because they\n> don't wish to share a real name.\n\nYup.\n\n> Retain the prohibition on anonymous contributions that the Linux kernel\n> has to ensure that we have some line of provenance to a known (if\n> pseudonymous) author who might be able to respond to questions about it.\n\nWhere is this reference to \"Linux kernel\" come from? Shouldn't we\nname our own project and adopt this new language for our own rules?\n\nAnd yes, total anonymity goes directly against provenance traceability,\nso it is not a passive \"unfortunately we cannot accept\" with regret;\nit is a lot more active and positive \"we must not accept an\nanonymous contributions.\"\n\n> I don't claim that this is the best possible wording and I'm open to\n> changing it. The term \"known identity\" comes from Linux, but if we\n> need to clarify using different language or otherwise change any part of\n> this up, we can do so.\n\nThanks for writing this.\n\n> [[real-name]]\n> -Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n> -don't hide your real name.\n> +Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we\n> +unfortunately cannot accept anonymous contributions. It is common to use some\n\nDrop \"unfortunately\". We will not accept anonymous contributions.\nIt is not like we would wish to if we can but somebody else tells us\nnot to.\n\n> +form of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable\n> +doing so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can\n> +accept your patch either way.\n\nThanks.\n"},{"id":"521405","messageId":"2DBEA13C-5E74-4314-9A39-E045A0BC221E@gmail.com","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"xmqqv7o4ajq1.fsf@gitster.g","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Ayush Chandekar","fromEmail":"ayu.chandekar@gmail.com","sentAt":"2025-07-07T01:57:48Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-07T01:57:54Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"ayu.chandekar@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/137001939?v=4"},"body":"\n\nHi,\n\nOn 7 July 2025 06:41:02 GMT+05:30, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>\"brian m. carlson\" writes:\n>\n>> Our submission guidelines require people to use their real name, but\n>> this is not always suitable for various reasons.\n>> ...\n>\n>Another thing to consider, which may matter even more in the context\n>of SubmittingPatches, is if it is necessary. If there is a\n>requirement, which may or may not be the \"real name\", that is\n>essential to keep DCO enforceable, we will not be able to drop such\n>an essential requirement, even if it is \"not suitable\" for some\n>people. We would have to rather ask these people refrain from\n>contributing.\n>\n>But if a requirment we currently have, like \"real name\", is not\n>necessary and if \"known identity\" is sufficient, then by all means,\n>let's make sure we can loosen the wording to make it \"suitable\" to\n>more people.\n>\n>> In addition, there are some developers who are so widely known\n>> pseudonymously that they have a Wikipedia page with their handle and no\n>> real name. It would seem silly to reject patches from people who are\n>> known and respected in their open-source community just because they\n>> don't wish to share a real name.\n>\n>Yup.\n>\n>> Retain the prohibition on anonymous contributions that the Linux kernel\n>> has to ensure that we have some line of provenance to a known (if\n>> pseudonymous) author who might be able to respond to questions about it.\n>\n>Where is this reference to \"Linux kernel\" come from? Shouldn't we\n>name our own project and adopt this new language for our own rules?\n>\n>And yes, total anonymity goes directly against provenance traceability,\n>so it is not a passive \"unfortunately we cannot accept\" with regret;\n>it is a lot more active and positive \"we must not accept an\n>anonymous contributions.\"\n>\n\nI want to know how we deal with anonymous contributions. Let's suppose someone creates an internet persona claiming that foo bar is their real name or an alias. They make some contribution and then abandon this persona. So, isn't this effectively an anonymous contribution?\n\n>> I don't claim that this is the best possible wording and I'm open to\n>> changing it. The term \"known identity\" comes from Linux, but if we\n>> need to clarify using different language or otherwise change any part of\n>> this up, we can do so.\n>\n>Thanks for writing this.\n>\n>> [[real-name]]\n>> -Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n>> -don't hide your real name.\n>> +Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we\n>> +unfortunately cannot accept anonymous contributions. It is common to use some\n>\n>Drop \"unfortunately\". We will not accept anonymous contributions.\n>It is not like we would wish to if we can but somebody else tells us\n>not to.\n>\n>> +form of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable\n>> +doing so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can\n>> +accept your patch either way.\n>\n>Thanks.\n>\n\nThanks.\n\nAyush\n"},{"id":"521406","messageId":"20250707030609.GA13852@mit.edu","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"2DBEA13C-5E74-4314-9A39-E045A0BC221E@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Theodore Ts'o","fromEmail":"tytso@mit.edu","sentAt":"2025-07-07T03:06:09Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-07T03:06:47Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"tytso@mit.edu","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/51416?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Jul 07, 2025 at 07:27:48AM +0530, Ayush Chandekar wrote:\n> >\n> >Where is this reference to \"Linux kernel\" come from? Shouldn't we\n> >name our own project and adopt this new language for our own rules?\n> >\n> >And yes, total anonymity goes directly against provenance traceability,\n> >so it is not a passive \"unfortunately we cannot accept\" with regret;\n> >it is a lot more active and positive \"we must not accept an\n> >anonymous contributions.\"\n\nWell, the SubmittingPatches originally came from the Linux Kernel, and\nthe policies and procedures that were adopted by the Linux Kernel\ncomes from a lot of hard won experience which the git project might\nwant to consider. In addition, it was also informed with a lot of\nadvice and review of lawyers employed or contracted by the Linux\nFoundation. (The Developers of Certification Origin had quite a lot\nof input for lawyers to make sure it would work in multiple legal\njourisdictions.)\n\nSo for example, it's not just about copyright concerns vis-a-vis\nanonymous contributions. It's also about OFAC Sanctions[1], since an\nanonymous contributor might be someone working for a Sanctioned Entity\ntrying to bypass them.\n\n[1] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/navigating-global-regulations-and-open-source-us-ofac-sanctions\n\n(And note, it's not just about the US Sanctions; there are very\nsimilar, and in some cases, stricter sanctions promulgated by other\ncountries, including Japan, Switzerland, Australia, the United\nKingdom, the European Union --- and this is not a comprehesive list.\nFor better or for worse, the Russian Federation has managed to annoy\nquite a large number of countries, and many of us either live in, or\nwork for companies domiciled in one of them. If you work for a\ncompany which is a member of te Linux Foundation, Mike Dolan or some\nother LF lawyer should have reached out to your General Counsel; so\ntalk to your legal department.)\n\nCheers,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t- Ted\n"},{"id":"521407","messageId":"xmqqbjpwa7sf.fsf@gitster.g","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250707030609.GA13852@mit.edu","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2025-07-07T05:28:48Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-07T05:28:50Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"\"Theodore Ts'o\" writes:\n\n> ... advice and review of lawyers employed or contracted by the Linux\n> Foundation. (The Developers of Certification Origin had quite a lot\n> of input for lawyers to make sure it would work in multiple legal\n> jourisdictions.)\n>\n> So for example, it's not just about copyright concerns vis-a-vis\n> anonymous contributions. It's also about OFAC Sanctions[1], since an\n> anonymous contributor might be someone working for a Sanctioned Entity\n> trying to bypass them.\n\nThese are excellent points. All the more reasons why not just we\ncannot but we do not want to take anonymous contributions to protect\nourselves.\n\nThanks.\n"},{"id":"521422","messageId":"585bc9d6-1fe5-4a77-b82e-db42175776a6@gmail.com","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250706163009.335780-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Phillip Wood","fromEmail":"phillip.wood123@gmail.com","sentAt":"2025-07-07T09:40:33Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-07T09:40:36Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"phillip.wood@dunelm.org.uk","avatar":null},"body":"Hi brian\n\nOn 06/07/2025 17:30, brian m. carlson wrote:\n> Our submission guidelines require people to use their real name, but\n> this is not always suitable for various reasons.\n> \n> For people who are transgender or non-binary and are transitioning or\n> who think they might want to transition, it can be a major obstacle and\n> cause major discomfort to require the use of their real name. This is\n> made worse by the fact that Git provides no way to change names built\n> into history, so the use of a deadname is forever. Our code of conduct\n> states that we \"pledge to act and interact in ways that contribute to an\n> open, welcoming, diverse, inclusive, and healthy community,\" and\n> changing this policy is one way we can improve things for contributors.\n> \n> In addition, there are some developers who are so widely known\n> pseudonymously that they have a Wikipedia page with their handle and no\n> real name. It would seem silly to reject patches from people who are\n> known and respected in their open-source community just because they\n> don't wish to share a real name.\n> \n> There are also other good reasons why people might operate\n> pseudonymously: because they or their family members are well known and\n> they wish to protect their privacy, because of current or past\n> harassment or retaliation or fear of that happening in the future, or\n> because of concerns about unwanted attention from government officials\n> or other authority figures. As much as possible, we want to welcome\n> contributions from anyone who is willing to participate positively in\n> our community without having them worry about their safety or privacy.\n\nThese are all good reasons why someone might not want to contribute \nunder their real name and I agree we should accommodate that if we can. \nI do think though that we should run this change past an license \nenforcement expert at Conservancy to check that it does not materially \nalter our ability to enforce the license. Assuming Conservancy are happy \nthen I think this change is a good idea.\n\nThanks\n\nPhillip\n\n> In all of these cases, we should allow people to proceed using a\n> preferred name or pseudonymously if, in their best judgment, that's the\n> right thing to do. State that it is common to use a real name but\n> explicitly mention that contributors who are not comfortable doing so or\n> prefer to operate pseudonymously or under a preferred name can proceed\n> otherwise. Use \"some form of your real name\" since some current\n> contributors use shortened forms of their name or use initials, which\n> have always been considered acceptable.\n\n\n> Retain the prohibition on anonymous contributions that the Linux kernel\n> has to ensure that we have some line of provenance to a known (if\n> pseudonymous) author who might be able to respond to questions about it.\n> \n> This helps guide people who would be fine using their real name but have\n> misconfigured `user.name` thinking it is intended to be a username or is\n> used for authentication (despite our documentation to the contrary), but\n> also allows for a variety of circumstances where the contributor would\n> feel more comfortable not doing so.\n> \n> Additionally, retain the section header ID for ease of linking across\n> versions.\n> \n> Signed-off-by: brian m. carlson \n> ---\n> I don't claim that this is the best possible wording and I'm open to\n> changing it. The term \"known identity\" comes from Linux, but if we\n> need to clarify using different language or otherwise change any part of\n> this up, we can do so.\n> \n> Documentation/SubmittingPatches | 7 +++++--\n> 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)\n> \n> diff --git a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n> index 958e3cc3d5..a4f4ca0205 100644\n> --- a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n> +++ b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n> @@ -408,8 +408,11 @@ your patch differs from project to project, so it may be different\n> from that of the project you are accustomed to.\n> \n> [[real-name]]\n> -Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n> -don't hide your real name.\n> +Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we\n> +unfortunately cannot accept anonymous contributions. It is common to use some\n> +form of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable\n> +doing so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can\n> +accept your patch either way.\n> \n> [[commit-trailers]]\n> If you like, you can put extra trailers at the end:\n> \n\n"},{"id":"521472","messageId":"20250707204224.GB3115893@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250706163009.335780-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2025-07-07T20:42:24Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-07T20:42:25Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Sun, Jul 06, 2025 at 04:30:09PM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n\n> Our submission guidelines require people to use their real name, but\n> this is not always suitable for various reasons.\n> [...lots of reasons...]\n\nI certainly don't disagree with any of those, though IMHO it is not even\nour business why somebody would not want to disclose their real name.\nWhat is much more interesting to me from the project side is this part:\n\n> Retain the prohibition on anonymous contributions that the Linux kernel\n> has to ensure that we have some line of provenance to a known (if\n> pseudonymous) author who might be able to respond to questions about it.\n\nI.e., why are we sure that it is OK for us to loosen this requirement\n(without jeopardizing the legal status of contributions). And I think\nthe answer is along the lines of \"the kernel did it, and they checked\nwith lawyers, so we can piggy-back on that work\". But it would be nice\nif we could cite that source, and maybe even lift some of their\nlanguage.\n\nLooks like the kernel commit here:\n\n https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d4563201f33a022fc0353033d9dfeb1606a88330\n\ncites CNCF here:\n\n https://github.com/cncf/foundation/blob/659fd32c86dc/dco-guidelines.md\n\nI don't know if there's any public discussion or statement from the\nLinux Foundation or other legal folks on the kernel's wording. So there\nmight not be anything better to cite. And possibly we could run it past\nConservancy's counsel. I'll leave that up to PLC folks to decide on.\n\nI kind of like the CNCF wording, which seems clear (though naturally,\nIANAL).\n\nRegardless, thanks for keeping this moving forward.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"521507","messageId":"CAN0heSou=BgC8ec9ZE+V-pYKt+XQiNfOBHj-5CZY8s5XCatZTg@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250707204224.GB3115893@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Martin Ågren","fromEmail":"martin.agren@gmail.com","sentAt":"2025-07-08T07:10:44Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-08T07:10:59Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"martin.agren@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 at 22:42, Jeff King wrote:\n>\n> On Sun, Jul 06, 2025 at 04:30:09PM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n>\n> I.e., why are we sure that it is OK for us to loosen this requirement\n> (without jeopardizing the legal status of contributions). And I think\n> the answer is along the lines of \"the kernel did it, and they checked\n> with lawyers, so we can piggy-back on that work\". But it would be nice\n> if we could cite that source, and maybe even lift some of their\n> language.\n>\n> Looks like the kernel commit here:\n>\n> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d4563201f33a022fc0353033d9dfeb1606a88330\n>\n> cites CNCF here:\n>\n> https://github.com/cncf/foundation/blob/659fd32c86dc/dco-guidelines.md\n>\n> I don't know if there's any public discussion or statement from the\n> Linux Foundation or other legal folks on the kernel's wording.\n\nThe commit is \"Acked-by: Michael Dolan \",\nwhich seems to be a lawyer at LF, e.g., as per Ted's post elsewhere in\nthis thread. So that could be seen as some kind of statement.\n\n> So there\n> might not be anything better to cite. And possibly we could run it past\n> Conservancy's counsel. I'll leave that up to PLC folks to decide on.\n\nMartin\n"},{"id":"521586","messageId":"20250708225134.GB1180568@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"CAN0heSou=BgC8ec9ZE+V-pYKt+XQiNfOBHj-5CZY8s5XCatZTg@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2025-07-08T22:51:34Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-08T22:51:35Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Jul 08, 2025 at 09:10:44AM +0200, Martin Ågren wrote:\n\n> > I.e., why are we sure that it is OK for us to loosen this requirement\n> > (without jeopardizing the legal status of contributions). And I think\n> > the answer is along the lines of \"the kernel did it, and they checked\n> > with lawyers, so we can piggy-back on that work\". But it would be nice\n> > if we could cite that source, and maybe even lift some of their\n> > language.\n> >\n> > Looks like the kernel commit here:\n> >\n> > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d4563201f33a022fc0353033d9dfeb1606a88330\n> >\n> > cites CNCF here:\n> >\n> > https://github.com/cncf/foundation/blob/659fd32c86dc/dco-guidelines.md\n> >\n> > I don't know if there's any public discussion or statement from the\n> > Linux Foundation or other legal folks on the kernel's wording.\n> \n> The commit is \"Acked-by: Michael Dolan \",\n> which seems to be a lawyer at LF, e.g., as per Ted's post elsewhere in\n> this thread. So that could be seen as some kind of statement.\n\nYeah, I agree (and didn't know that before; thanks for mentioning). I\nthink mostly I was just hoping that some of this reasoning and these\npointers would make it into the commit message.\n\nThe content of the patch looked OK to me, though I do still like the\nCNCF wording a bit better.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"521720","messageId":"aG7wcoy3gTzSd_4w@fruit.crustytoothpaste.net","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250708225134.GB1180568@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"brian m. carlson","fromEmail":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","sentAt":"2025-07-09T22:42:58Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-09T22:43:06Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/497054?v=4"},"body":"On 2025-07-08 at 22:51:34, Jeff King wrote:\n> Yeah, I agree (and didn't know that before; thanks for mentioning). I\n> think mostly I was just hoping that some of this reasoning and these\n> pointers would make it into the commit message.\n> \n> The content of the patch looked OK to me, though I do still like the\n> CNCF wording a bit better.\n\nIn case it isn't clear, I'll be sending a v2, probably this weekend with\nmore of this information and some updated wording.\n\nI don't love the CNCF wording because I feel it's too ambiguously\nworded. What is the \"community\"? The open-source community? My\nneighbourhood? My friend group? Can a real name be a username or\nhandle that's distinct and unambiguous? What about communities where\npeople share the same name? (Debian has, or at least had, two\ncontributors who both have the exact same full legal name and can\ntherefore only be distinguished by handle.)\n\nI also think redefining \"real name\" in that way is misleading and leads\nto confusion that might put people off, especially those that are not\nnative English speakers. I know it's common for lawyers to redefine\nlanguage to mean something very precise but different from the language\nthat ordinary humans use[0], but that's ultimately dishonest and tends\nto deceive and we shouldn't do it. Most people take the phrase \"real\nname\" to mean something equivalent to \"legal name\", so we should use\nlanguage to describe the requirement that doesn't confuse or mislead\npeople when it's used without further context (such as in a social media\npost).\n\nBy contrast, we suggest that `user.name` \"conventionally refer to some\nform of a personal name\". That doesn't work here because I did intend\nfor us to allow handles or usernames, but Wikipedia describes it as \"the\nset of names by which an individual person or animal is known\" and, due\nto the use of the passive voice (an intentional choice, I'm sure) is\nspecifically ambiguous and allows lots of allowance for personal\ncircumstances.\n\nI'll take some inspiration from the CNCF post and rephrase to make it\nmore approachable in v2.\n\n[0] For instance, one time where I was told that my laptop's removable\nbattery was an \"accessory\" and was therefore not covered under warranty,\ndespite the fact that it was required for the machine to boot.\n-- \nbrian m. carlson (they/them)\nToronto, Ontario, CA\n"},{"id":"521730","messageId":"20250710034623.GA2066787@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"aG7wcoy3gTzSd_4w@fruit.crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2025-07-10T03:46:23Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-10T03:46:25Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 09, 2025 at 10:42:58PM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n\n> On 2025-07-08 at 22:51:34, Jeff King wrote:\n> > Yeah, I agree (and didn't know that before; thanks for mentioning). I\n> > think mostly I was just hoping that some of this reasoning and these\n> > pointers would make it into the commit message.\n> > \n> > The content of the patch looked OK to me, though I do still like the\n> > CNCF wording a bit better.\n> \n> In case it isn't clear, I'll be sending a v2, probably this weekend with\n> more of this information and some updated wording.\n> \n> I don't love the CNCF wording because I feel it's too ambiguously\n> worded. What is the \"community\"? The open-source community? My\n> neighbourhood? My friend group? Can a real name be a username or\n> handle that's distinct and unambiguous? What about communities where\n> people share the same name? (Debian has, or at least had, two\n> contributors who both have the exact same full legal name and can\n> therefore only be distinguished by handle.)\n> \n> I also think redefining \"real name\" in that way is misleading and leads\n> to confusion that might put people off, especially those that are not\n> native English speakers. I know it's common for lawyers to redefine\n> language to mean something very precise but different from the language\n> that ordinary humans use[0], but that's ultimately dishonest and tends\n> to deceive and we shouldn't do it. Most people take the phrase \"real\n> name\" to mean something equivalent to \"legal name\", so we should use\n> language to describe the requirement that doesn't confuse or mislead\n> people when it's used without further context (such as in a social media\n> post).\n\nFair points. I think what I liked about it is that it emphasized the\npurpose of the policy:\n\n The key concern is that your identification is sufficient enough to\n contact you if an issue were to arise in the future about your\n contribution.\n\nI also liked the sentence before:\n\n Your real name is the name you convey to people in the community for\n them to use to identify you as you.\n\nbut I agree that \"community\" is vague there. I think it mostly means\n\"the development community\", but I agree that we could perhaps sidestep\nthe whole issue by just saying we need some way to be able to identify\nand get in touch with you.\n\n> I'll take some inspiration from the CNCF post and rephrase to make it\n> more approachable in v2.\n\nGreat, thank you.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"521734","messageId":"xmqqzfdc8yeo.fsf@gitster.g","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250710034623.GA2066787@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2025-07-10T04:25:51Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-10T04:25:54Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jeff King writes:\n\n> On Wed, Jul 09, 2025 at 10:42:58PM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n>\n>> On 2025-07-08 at 22:51:34, Jeff King wrote:\n>> > Yeah, I agree (and didn't know that before; thanks for mentioning). I\n>> > think mostly I was just hoping that some of this reasoning and these\n>> > pointers would make it into the commit message.\n>> > \n>> > The content of the patch looked OK to me, though I do still like the\n>> > CNCF wording a bit better.\n>> \n>> In case it isn't clear, I'll be sending a v2, probably this weekend with\n>> more of this information and some updated wording.\n>> \n>> I don't love the CNCF wording because I feel it's too ambiguously\n>> worded. What is the \"community\"? The open-source community? My\n>> neighbourhood? My friend group? Can a real name be a username or\n>> handle that's distinct and unambiguous? What about communities where\n>> people share the same name? (Debian has, or at least had, two\n>> contributors who both have the exact same full legal name and can\n>> therefore only be distinguished by handle.)\n>> \n>> I also think redefining \"real name\" in that way is misleading and leads\n>> to confusion that might put people off, especially those that are not\n>> native English speakers. I know it's common for lawyers to redefine\n>> language to mean something very precise but different from the language\n>> that ordinary humans use[0], but that's ultimately dishonest and tends\n>> to deceive and we shouldn't do it. Most people take the phrase \"real\n>> name\" to mean something equivalent to \"legal name\", so we should use\n>> language to describe the requirement that doesn't confuse or mislead\n>> people when it's used without further context (such as in a social media\n>> post).\n>\n> Fair points. I think what I liked about it is that it emphasized the\n> purpose of the policy:\n>\n> The key concern is that your identification is sufficient enough to\n> contact you if an issue were to arise in the future about your\n> contribution.\n>\n> I also liked the sentence before:\n>\n> Your real name is the name you convey to people in the community for\n> them to use to identify you as you.\n>\n> but I agree that \"community\" is vague there. I think it mostly means\n> \"the development community\", but I agree that we could perhaps sidestep\n> the whole issue by just saying we need some way to be able to identify\n> and get in touch with you.\n>\n>> I'll take some inspiration from the CNCF post and rephrase to make it\n>> more approachable in v2.\n>\n> Great, thank you.\n\nSounds good. Thanks, both of you.\n"},{"id":"521782","messageId":"CA+P7+xq8F_rMCQ3gVcwUT_pq08bYS=i-Dr00t728ExouAVVX-g@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"2DBEA13C-5E74-4314-9A39-E045A0BC221E@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Jacob Keller","fromEmail":"jacob.keller@gmail.com","sentAt":"2025-07-10T21:55:05Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-10T21:55:17Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"jacob.keller@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/874719?v=4"},"body":"On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 7:01 PM Ayush Chandekar wrote:\n>\n> I want to know how we deal with anonymous contributions. Let's suppose someone creates an internet persona claiming that foo bar is their real name or an alias. They make some contribution and then abandon this persona. So, isn't this effectively an anonymous contribution?\n>\n\nI think this is an unrelated issue of whether or not we accept\nnicknames or names other than your \"legal\" name. It is always possible\nsomeone is lying, whether we do or don't change that policy.\n\nThe exact decision for any such given change is likely context\ndependent. If a change were made in bad faith and we discover it, then\nit would be matter of excising the change. If it were merely a change\nsomeone submitted in good faith and we can no longer contact them, it\nmight make sense in cases to find a new owner or maintainer, unless we\nhave strong reason to believe that we do not have a valid DCO, in\nwhich case it might also require removal.\n"},{"id":"522060","messageId":"20250716002523.1392423-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250706163009.335780-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"[PATCH v2] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"brian m. carlson","fromEmail":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","sentAt":"2025-07-16T00:25:23Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-16T00:25:29Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/497054?v=4"},"body":"Our submission guidelines require people to use their real name, but\nthis is not always suitable for various reasons.\n\nFor people who are transgender or non-binary and are transitioning or\nwho think they might want to transition, it can be a major obstacle and\ncause major discomfort to require the use of their real name. This is\nmade worse by the fact that Git provides no way to change names built\ninto history, so the use of a deadname is forever. Our code of conduct\nstates that we \"pledge to act and interact in ways that contribute to an\nopen, welcoming, diverse, inclusive, and healthy community,\" and\nchanging this policy is one way we can improve things for contributors.\n\nIn addition, there are some developers who are so widely known\npseudonymously that they have a Wikipedia page with their handle and no\nreal name. It would seem silly to reject patches from people who are\nknown and respected in their open-source community just because they\ndon't wish to share a real name.\n\nThere are also other good reasons why people might operate\npseudonymously: because they or their family members are well known and\nthey wish to protect their privacy, because of current or past\nharassment or retaliation or fear of that happening in the future, or\nbecause of concerns about unwanted attention from government officials\nor other authority figures. As much as possible, we want to welcome\ncontributions from anyone who is willing to participate positively in\nour community without having them worry about their safety or privacy.\n\nIn all of these cases, we should allow people to proceed using a\npreferred name or pseudonymously if, in their best judgment, that's the\nright thing to do. State that it is common to use a real name but\nexplicitly mention that contributors who are not comfortable doing so or\nprefer to operate pseudonymously or under a preferred name can proceed\notherwise, provided the name is distinctive, identifying, and not\nmisleading. For instance, using U+2060 (WORD JOINER) as one's ID would\nlikely be distinctive but not identifying, since most people would have\ntrouble reading it due to its zero-width nature.\n\nWe prohibit identities which are misleading, since our goal is to create\na community which works together with a common goal, and misleading or\ndeceiving others is not conducive to good community or compatible with\nour code of conduct, nor is it compatible with making a legal assertion\nabout the provenance of one's code.\n\nExplicitly prohibit anonymous contributions to ensure that we have some\nline of provenance to a known (if pseudonymous) author who might be able\nto respond to questions about it. Explain that this is the reason we\nhave this policy to help contributors understand the rationale better.\n\nUse \"some form of your real name\" since some current contributors use\nshortened forms of their name or use initials, which have always been\nconsidered acceptable. This helps guide people who would be fine using\ntheir real name but have misconfigured `user.name` thinking it is\nintended to be a username or is used for authentication (despite our\ndocumentation to the contrary), but also allows for a variety of\ncircumstances where the contributor would feel more comfortable not\ndoing so.\n\nNote that this policy is the same as that of the Linux kernel[0] and the\nCNCF[1], as well as many smaller projects. The Linux kernel patch was\nAcked-by one of the Linux Foundation's lawyers, Michael Dolan, so it\nappears these changes have had legal review.\n\nAdditionally, retain the section header ID for ease of linking across\nversions.\n\n[0] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d4563201f33a022fc0353033d9dfeb1606a88330\n[1] https://github.com/cncf/foundation/blob/659fd32c86dc/dco-guidelines.md\n\nSigned-off-by: brian m. carlson \n---\n Documentation/SubmittingPatches | 11 +++++++++--\n 1 file changed, 9 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)\n\ndiff --git a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\nindex 958e3cc3d5..86ca7f6a78 100644\n--- a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n+++ b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n@@ -408,8 +408,15 @@ your patch differs from project to project, so it may be different\n from that of the project you are accustomed to.\n \n [[real-name]]\n-Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n-don't hide your real name.\n+Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we cannot\n+accept anonymous contributions. It is common, but not required, to use some form\n+of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable doing\n+so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can accept\n+your patch either way, as long as the name and email you use are distinctive,\n+identifying, and not misleading.\n+\n+The goal of this policy is to allow us to have sufficient information to contact\n+you if questions arise about your contribution.\n \n [[commit-trailers]]\n If you like, you can put extra trailers at the end:\n"},{"id":"522064","messageId":"20250716044457.GA1395735@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250716002523.1392423-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH v2] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2025-07-16T04:44:57Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-16T04:44:58Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 12:25:23AM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n\n> -Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n> -don't hide your real name.\n> +Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we cannot\n> +accept anonymous contributions. It is common, but not required, to use some form\n> +of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable doing\n> +so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can accept\n> +your patch either way, as long as the name and email you use are distinctive,\n> +identifying, and not misleading.\n> +\n> +The goal of this policy is to allow us to have sufficient information to contact\n> +you if questions arise about your contribution.\n\nThanks for updating. I think this reads very well, and you included all\nof the citations I asked for in the commit message. So this looks good\nto me!\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"522072","messageId":"aHc87TA7Jq9c4SW3@pks.im","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250716044457.GA1395735@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH v2] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Patrick Steinhardt","fromEmail":"ps@pks.im","sentAt":"2025-07-16T05:47:25Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-16T05:47:33Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"ps@pks.im","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/4056630?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 12:44:57AM -0400, Jeff King wrote:\n> On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 12:25:23AM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n> \n> > -Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n> > -don't hide your real name.\n> > +Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we cannot\n> > +accept anonymous contributions. It is common, but not required, to use some form\n> > +of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable doing\n> > +so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can accept\n> > +your patch either way, as long as the name and email you use are distinctive,\n> > +identifying, and not misleading.\n> > +\n> > +The goal of this policy is to allow us to have sufficient information to contact\n> > +you if questions arise about your contribution.\n> \n> Thanks for updating. I think this reads very well, and you included all\n> of the citations I asked for in the commit message. So this looks good\n> to me!\n\nSeconded, I'm also very much supportive of this change and like this\nversion. Thanks!\n\nPatrick\n"},{"id":"522111","messageId":"xmqqple0dwpa.fsf@gitster.g","threadId":"63749","inReplyTo":"20250716002523.1392423-1-sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH v2] SubmittingPatches: allow non-real name contributions","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2025-07-16T14:41:53Z","receivedAt":"2025-07-16T14:41:56Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"\"brian m. carlson\" writes:\n\n> Note that this policy is the same as that of the Linux kernel[0] and the\n> CNCF[1], as well as many smaller projects. The Linux kernel patch was\n> Acked-by one of the Linux Foundation's lawyers, Michael Dolan, so it\n> appears these changes have had legal review.\n\nI understand what this wants to say, but found it a tiny bit\nmisleading. The kernel and CNCF do not agree with the exact\nwording, and this one copies from neither, so \"policy is the same\"\nis really \"policy is in the same in spirit, even though the text to\nspell out that policy used by all these three projects differ\".\n\nWhich is not a bad thing at all, but was a bit misleading.\n\n> Additionally, retain the section header ID for ease of linking across\n> versions.\n>\n> [0] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d4563201f33a022fc0353033d9dfeb1606a88330\n> [1] https://github.com/cncf/foundation/blob/659fd32c86dc/dco-guidelines.md\n>\n> Signed-off-by: brian m. carlson \n> ---\n> Documentation/SubmittingPatches | 11 +++++++++--\n> 1 file changed, 9 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)\n\nThe text with the patch applied is great. Let's merge it down\nquickly to 'master'.\n\nThanks.\n\n> diff --git a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n> index 958e3cc3d5..86ca7f6a78 100644\n> --- a/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n> +++ b/Documentation/SubmittingPatches\n> @@ -408,8 +408,15 @@ your patch differs from project to project, so it may be different\n> from that of the project you are accustomed to.\n> \n> [[real-name]]\n> -Also notice that a real name is used in the `Signed-off-by` trailer. Please\n> -don't hide your real name.\n> +Please use a known identity in the `Signed-off-by` trailer, since we cannot\n> +accept anonymous contributions. It is common, but not required, to use some form\n> +of your real name. We realize that some contributors are not comfortable doing\n> +so or prefer to contribute under a pseudonym or preferred name and we can accept\n> +your patch either way, as long as the name and email you use are distinctive,\n> +identifying, and not misleading.\n> +\n> +The goal of this policy is to allow us to have sufficient information to contact\n> +you if questions arise about your contribution.\n> \n> [[commit-trailers]]\n> If you like, you can put extra trailers at the end:\n"}]}