{"thread":{"id":"55424","subject":"Reviewed-by given by celebrities (no subject matter expertise on Git development)","startedAt":"2021-04-02T05:45:51Z","lastAt":"2021-04-07T21:18:36Z","messageCount":5,"participants":["Bagas Sanjaya","Junio C Hamano","Jeff King"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"420862","messageId":"345a7b27-8ee4-4b64-0340-40b002a25d1f@gmail.com","threadId":"55424","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Reviewed-by given by celebrities (no subject matter expertise on Git development)","fromName":"Bagas Sanjaya","fromEmail":"bagasdotme@gmail.com","sentAt":"2021-04-02T05:45:45Z","receivedAt":"2021-04-02T05:45:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"bagasdotme@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/40219486?v=4"},"body":"Alright so let's imagine this situation.\n\nSupposed that all developers here take a break from Git ML\n(except Junio the maintainer of Git). Many celebrities (public figures\nlike singers and actors) are instead reviewing patches here (with no\nsubject matter expertise on Git, let alone programming languages and\nsoftware development in general). Almost all patches reviewed by them\nare given Reviewed-by trailer from them.\n\nThe situation above is roughly similar to some TV programs when\ncelebrities comment on interesting and unique moments happened\nall around the world, with little or no subject matter expertise\nregarding the subject being commented.\n\nJunio, what will you do in such situation above (celebrities reviewing\npatches and giving Reviewed-by despite of lack of subject matter\nexpertise)?\n\n-- \nAn old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara\n"},{"id":"420948","messageId":"xmqqeefqzsvz.fsf@gitster.g","threadId":"55424","inReplyTo":"345a7b27-8ee4-4b64-0340-40b002a25d1f@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Reviewed-by given by celebrities (no subject matter expertise on Git development)","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2021-04-04T02:27:12Z","receivedAt":"2021-04-04T02:27:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Bagas Sanjaya writes:\n\n> Junio, what will you do in such situation above (celebrities reviewing\n> patches and giving Reviewed-by despite of lack of subject matter\n> expertise)?\n\nI find the scenario highly unlikely, and I do not see the point of\nwasting my time on a trick question, thinking about what I would do\nin a scenario that is not realistic, so I was tempted to ignore this\nmessage. If you have something you really want to ask, ask it\ndirectly instead.\n\nBut I'll make it an exception this case, since you are relatively\nnew.\n\nI do not think the celebrity status of a person who sends a\nReviewed-by matters. What matters aroud here is the quality of\nreview that comes with \"Reviewed-by\".\n\nJust a \"Reviewed-by\" without comments would most likely not count at\nall, unless the perceived competence and expertise the reviewer\npossesses in the area is reasonably high.\n\nThe \"perceived\" is a rather important word here. It does not matter\nhow good one actually is. One must have had demonstrated one's\ncompetence and expertise on the list sufficiently to earn trust by\nother readers on the list for one's \"Reviewed-by\" to really count.\n\n\"I read the patch with fine toothed comb, I found it very well done,\nI have nothing else to add.\", coming from somebody who is KNOWN to\nknow the area the patch touches well, would mean a lot. When the\nsame statement was given by somebody who hasn't earned the trust of\nthe collective mind on the list, regardless of the celebrity status,\nwould mean a lot less.\n"},{"id":"421147","messageId":"YG4U5phu1uXZe6Tn@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"55424","inReplyTo":"xmqqeefqzsvz.fsf@gitster.g","subject":"Re: Reviewed-by given by celebrities (no subject matter expertise on Git development)","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2021-04-07T20:24:06Z","receivedAt":"2021-04-07T20:24:45Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 07:27:12PM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n\n> Bagas Sanjaya writes:\n> \n> > Junio, what will you do in such situation above (celebrities reviewing\n> > patches and giving Reviewed-by despite of lack of subject matter\n> > expertise)?\n> \n> I find the scenario highly unlikely, and I do not see the point of\n> wasting my time on a trick question, thinking about what I would do\n> in a scenario that is not realistic, so I was tempted to ignore this\n> message. If you have something you really want to ask, ask it\n> directly instead.\n> \n> But I'll make it an exception this case, since you are relatively\n> new.\n> \n> I do not think the celebrity status of a person who sends a\n> Reviewed-by matters. What matters aroud here is the quality of\n> review that comes with \"Reviewed-by\".\n> \n> Just a \"Reviewed-by\" without comments would most likely not count at\n> all, unless the perceived competence and expertise the reviewer\n> possesses in the area is reasonably high.\n> \n> The \"perceived\" is a rather important word here. It does not matter\n> how good one actually is. One must have had demonstrated one's\n> competence and expertise on the list sufficiently to earn trust by\n> other readers on the list for one's \"Reviewed-by\" to really count.\n> \n> \"I read the patch with fine toothed comb, I found it very well done,\n> I have nothing else to add.\", coming from somebody who is KNOWN to\n> know the area the patch touches well, would mean a lot. When the\n> same statement was given by somebody who hasn't earned the trust of\n> the collective mind on the list, regardless of the celebrity status,\n> would mean a lot less.\n\nI don't usually post \"me too\" responses, since they are usually just\nnoise. But I could not resist it here, for two reasons:\n\n - this is such a nicely written summary of what \"Reviewed-by\" means in\n our project that I think it deserves some praise. :)\n\n - because it is ultimately about \"what does Reviewed-by mean within\n the Git project\", there is some small value in having another\n project member say \"yes, that is exactly what I expect from it,\n too\"\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"421153","messageId":"xmqqv98xyfrt.fsf@gitster.g","threadId":"55424","inReplyTo":"YG4U5phu1uXZe6Tn@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: Reviewed-by given by celebrities (no subject matter expertise on Git development)","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2021-04-07T20:57:10Z","receivedAt":"2021-04-07T20:57:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jeff King writes:\n\n> I don't usually post \"me too\" responses, since they are usually just\n> noise. But I could not resist it here, for two reasons:\n>\n> - this is such a nicely written summary of what \"Reviewed-by\" means in\n> our project that I think it deserves some praise. :)\n>\n> - because it is ultimately about \"what does Reviewed-by mean within\n> the Git project\", there is some small value in having another\n> project member say \"yes, that is exactly what I expect from it,\n> too\"\n\nHeh, thanks.\n\nAre you hinting that some of what I wrote (with typofixes like\ns/arond/around/) should be inserted to SubmittingPatches or\nsomewhere near it?\n\nI am still scratching my head why \"celebrities\" were brought into\nthe original question in the first place, but I can say that we do\nnot discriminate against \"celebrities\" who review patches with\nprejudice like \"that lady only plays a hacker on TV, and must know\nnothing to qualify to review our patches.\" Celebrities or not, once\nsomebody demonstrates enough competence and earns reputation on this\nlist, opinions by that person would count more than others.\n"},{"id":"421155","messageId":"YG4hpT5EL6jZp4Pq@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"55424","inReplyTo":"xmqqv98xyfrt.fsf@gitster.g","subject":"Re: Reviewed-by given by celebrities (no subject matter expertise on Git development)","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2021-04-07T21:18:29Z","receivedAt":"2021-04-07T21:18:36Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 01:57:10PM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n\n> Jeff King writes:\n> \n> > I don't usually post \"me too\" responses, since they are usually just\n> > noise. But I could not resist it here, for two reasons:\n> >\n> > - this is such a nicely written summary of what \"Reviewed-by\" means in\n> > our project that I think it deserves some praise. :)\n> >\n> > - because it is ultimately about \"what does Reviewed-by mean within\n> > the Git project\", there is some small value in having another\n> > project member say \"yes, that is exactly what I expect from it,\n> > too\"\n> \n> Heh, thanks.\n> \n> Are you hinting that some of what I wrote (with typofixes like\n> s/arond/around/) should be inserted to SubmittingPatches or\n> somewhere near it?\n\nI would not be opposed to that, but I also do not want to create more\nwork for you. :)\n\n-Peff\n"}]}