{"thread":{"id":"5541","subject":"Git Survey summary","startedAt":"2006-09-12T09:05:20Z","lastAt":"2006-09-21T17:00:43Z","messageCount":13,"participants":["Nguyễn Thái Ngọc Duy","Jakub Narebski","Shawn Pearce","Petr Baudis","Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"26770","messageId":"fcaeb9bf0609120205m38a44571we21e05864c04a731@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Git Survey summary","fromName":"Nguyễn Thái Ngọc Duy","fromEmail":"pclouds@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-09-12T09:05:20Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-12T09:05:20Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pclouds@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/720?v=4"},"body":"I'm summarizing the survey at http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey.\nThere are some questions I haven't done yet: 14, 20, 21, 23, 24, 25\nand 31. However as I won't work on it until next week, if you have\nspare time, feel free to edit it (even other questions because I'm\nquite certain the result is biased :). We may need some analysis than\njust raw numbers I collected.\n-- \nDuy\n"},{"id":"27361","messageId":"fcaeb9bf0609210712i125822c4gf8af3ecccdbd3d13@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"fcaeb9bf0609120205m38a44571we21e05864c04a731@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Nguyễn Thái Ngọc Duy","fromEmail":"pclouds@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-09-21T14:12:18Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T14:12:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pclouds@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/720?v=4"},"body":"FYI, I've completed the survey summary (except Q13, repo size, which I\ndon't know how to handle it. And there was no Q14 in GitSurveyData).\nYou may be interested in Q20 and Q31.\nSome thought after completing this summary:\n - Documentation is still most wanted (as a comprehensive book or\nexamples/use-cases). There were many answers indicated that users\ndidn't know about existing git features. We should advertise git\nfeatures more.\n - Git homepage and Git wiki (and sometimes git mailing list) are\nunknown to many users. Perhaps we should put them in git.7 man page?\n - Plumbings/Porcelains confustion. Is it about time to move all git-*\ninto /usr/lib/git? Also some probably wants to integrate cogito into\ngit.\n - A place to post bugs and feature requests (if bugzilla is too big,\nmaybe mantis?)\n - (This comment is mine) Git should ship NEWS file in release\ntarballs. An auto generated ChangeLog in tarballs is also great (maybe\nmake git-changelog to generate the changelog)\n-- \nDuy\n"},{"id":"27363","messageId":"eeuapj$mgn$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"fcaeb9bf0609210712i125822c4gf8af3ecccdbd3d13@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-09-21T15:23:39Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T15:23:39Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Nguy?n Thái Ng?c Duy wrote:\n\n>  - A place to post bugs and feature requests (if bugzilla is too big,\n> maybe mantis?)\n\nIsn't this mailing list the place to post bugreports and feature requests\n(and of course patches)? Any bugtracker has to be tied to mailing list, and\nperhaps also two-way to gitweb (gitweb making links to bugtracker issues,\nbugtracker having links to gitweb; perhaps incrementing revision\nnumbers...).\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"27364","messageId":"20060921155617.GB3934@spearce.org","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"eeuapj$mgn$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Shawn Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2006-09-21T15:56:17Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T15:56:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Nguy?n Thái Ng?c Duy wrote:\n> \n> >  - A place to post bugs and feature requests (if bugzilla is too big,\n> > maybe mantis?)\n> \n> Isn't this mailing list the place to post bugreports and feature requests\n> (and of course patches)? Any bugtracker has to be tied to mailing list, and\n> perhaps also two-way to gitweb (gitweb making links to bugtracker issues,\n> bugtracker having links to gitweb; perhaps incrementing revision\n> numbers...).\n\nIts funny, some communities are based around their bug tracking\nsystems (Mozilla) and others around their mailing lists (kernel, git).\nBoth work, but only if those participating make it so. Trying to\nforce one type of community into another model can kill it.\n\nI'm all for hyperlink integration of gitweb and bug tracking systems\nbut bug tracking tends to be a personal preference; there's so\nmany choices. So whatever support is in gitweb needs to be pretty\nmodular to allow users to drop in the configuration for whatever\nbug tracking system a given repository uses.\n\n\nSince Git uses a mailing list model it would be nice if the gitweb\nhyperlinks were into the marc and GMane archives by Message-ID; but\nthat would also require that commits start including the Message-ID\nof the thread which spawned the patches. It would also be nice\nif the links were able to jump to the discussion about the patch,\nas sometimes the patch thread is different from the spawning thread.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"27367","messageId":"eeudn6$400$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"20060921155617.GB3934@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-09-21T16:13:34Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T16:13:34Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Shawn Pearce wrote:\n\n> Since Git uses a mailing list model it would be nice if the gitweb\n> hyperlinks were into the marc and GMane archives by Message-ID;\n\nPlanned (as an example committag support).\n\nWould it be better ti use MARC or GMane interface:\n http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?i=200609200739.48732.alan%20()%20chandlerfamily%20!%20org%20!%20uk\n http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=<200609200739.48732.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk> \n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"27369","messageId":"20060921162724.GE3934@spearce.org","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"eeudn6$400$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Shawn Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2006-09-21T16:27:24Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T16:27:24Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Shawn Pearce wrote:\n> \n> > Since Git uses a mailing list model it would be nice if the gitweb\n> > hyperlinks were into the marc and GMane archives by Message-ID;\n> \n> Planned (as an example committag support).\n> \n> Would it be better ti use MARC or GMane interface:\n> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?i=200609200739.48732.alan%20()%20chandlerfamily%20!%20org%20!%20uk\n> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=<200609200739.48732.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk> \n\nWell, the GMane link worked and displayed the thread; the MARC\none didn't. The GMane link is also less mangled.\n\nWhen reading the mailing list via the web I do tend to read through\nGMane more than MARC but I can't state why I have that preference.\nIt just happens. Maybe I prefer white backgrounds over black ones?\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"27370","messageId":"20060921163452.GW8259@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"20060921162724.GE3934@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-09-21T16:34:52Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T16:34:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 06:27:24PM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere Shawn Pearce said that...\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > Shawn Pearce wrote:\n> > \n> > > Since Git uses a mailing list model it would be nice if the gitweb\n> > > hyperlinks were into the marc and GMane archives by Message-ID;\n> > \n> > Planned (as an example committag support).\n> > \n> > Would it be better ti use MARC or GMane interface:\n> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?i=200609200739.48732.alan%20()%20chandlerfamily%20!%20org%20!%20uk\n> > http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=<200609200739.48732.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk> \n> \n> Well, the GMane link worked and displayed the thread; the MARC\n> one didn't. The GMane link is also less mangled.\n> \n> When reading the mailing list via the web I do tend to read through\n> GMane more than MARC but I can't state why I have that preference.\n> It just happens. Maybe I prefer white backgrounds over black ones?\n\nSurprisingly few web mailing list interfaces are actually usable for\nreading threads. Gmane is, MARC isn't (you don't see the list of\nreferences and replies to the current mail, and the next/prev in thread\nlinks somehow don't seem to be very reliable). That's a killer feature\nfor me, if MARC had that I'd have preferred it (I like black background\nand dislike frames).\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\n#!/bin/perl -sp0777i said that...\n> I'm all for hyperlink integration of gitweb and bug tracking systems\n\nActually, Trac might be interesting if you want tight VCS web interface\nand bugtracking web interface integration, although Trac is not very\npowerful. I think the OLPC people did some work on integrating Trac and\nGit.\n\nPeople will think I'm weird, but I have to admit that I rather do like\nBugzilla.\n\nI think we are doing fine as it is for now, though.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\n#!/bin/perl -sp0777i Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> Shawn Pearce wrote:\n>> \n>>> Since Git uses a mailing list model it would be nice if the gitweb\n>>> hyperlinks were into the marc and GMane archives by Message-ID;\n>> \n>> Planned (as an example committag support).\n>> \n>> Would it be better ti use MARC or GMane interface:\n>> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?i=200609200739.48732.alan%20()%20chandlerfamily%20!%20org%20!%20uk\n>> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=<200609200739.48732.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk> \n> \n> Well, the GMane link worked and displayed the thread; the MARC\n> one didn't. The GMane link is also less mangled.\n\nBoth links works for me, although MARC one is incompatibile with\nmost of MUA marking of text/plain link. And probably those \"%20\"\ncan be entered simply as \" \"... yes, they can.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"27375","messageId":"20060921164818.GF3934@spearce.org","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"20060921163732.GX8259@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Shawn Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2006-09-21T16:48:18Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T16:48:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Petr Baudis wrote:\n> Dear diary, on Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 05:56:17PM CEST, I got a letter\n> where Shawn Pearce said that...\n> > I'm all for hyperlink integration of gitweb and bug tracking systems\n> \n> Actually, Trac might be interesting if you want tight VCS web interface\n> and bugtracking web interface integration, although Trac is not very\n> powerful. I think the OLPC people did some work on integrating Trac and\n> Git.\n> \n> People will think I'm weird, but I have to admit that I rather do like\n> Bugzilla.\n\nYour not weird. I also like Bugzilla for some projects; its rather\nsimple and somewhat easy to use... I also know a lot of people\nwho hate it.\n\n> I think we are doing fine as it is for now, though.\n\nOh I agree completely. But that's the Git project.\n\nHowever I think it would be nice if we had native hooks shipped\nwith core Git to connect to some popular bug tracking systems such\nas Bugzilla and Trac. Nothing incredibly fancy, but like how we\ncurrently ship some default example hooks (and even install them into\nevery repo with `git init-db`!) we should at least ship some basic\nexamples and documentation for integrating to some popular systems.\nIntegrate with at least 2 and it should be easy for users to add\nothers...\n\nEh, its just more stuff for an ever growing wishlist. :-)\nI probably won't do it as its not high on my wish list for Git.\nI don't currently use any bug tracking systems.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"27378","messageId":"eeufqg$bvc$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"20060921163452.GW8259@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-09-21T16:49:28Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T16:49:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Petr Baudis wrote:\n\n>> When reading the mailing list via the web I do tend to read through\n>> GMane more than MARC but I can't state why I have that preference.\n>> It just happens.  Maybe I prefer white backgrounds over black ones?\n> \n> Surprisingly few web mailing list interfaces are actually usable for\n> reading threads. Gmane is, MARC isn't (you don't see the list of\n> references and replies to the current mail, and the next/prev in thread\n> links somehow don't seem to be very reliable). That's a killer feature\n> for me, if MARC had that I'd have preferred it (I like black background\n> and dislike frames).\n\nFrom what I guessed, MARC groups threads by _title only_, while GMane\nseems to parse In-Reply-To:/References: headers for threading.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"27374","messageId":"fcaeb9bf0609210949l3d7e6e1ch825d2ef31caae89a@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"eeuapj$mgn$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy","fromEmail":"pclouds@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-09-21T16:49:52Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T16:49:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pclouds@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/720?v=4"},"body":"On 9/21/06, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy wrote:\n>\n> > - A place to post bugs and feature requests (if bugzilla is too big,\n> > maybe mantis?)\n>\n> Isn't this mailing list the place to post bugreports and feature requests\n> (and of course patches)?\n\nBecause it's harder to keep track of a long-living bug/request which\nspans many threads. I think git mailing list is for git development\nand helping users. It's not clear it should be a place to request\nfeatures. I'm still wondering why people requested a lot in the survey\nwhile more than half subscribed to the mailing list. I personally feel\nthe mailing list is a place for _contributing_ features (thoughtful\nideas or patches) not just requesting features (desires without no\nclear idea how to implement it).\nAnyway it's still good to clearly state the git mailing list is for\ndiscussion, bug reports and feature requests in git.7 man page\n(together with git homepage maybe)\n\n> Any bugtracker has to be tied to mailing list, and\n> perhaps also two-way to gitweb (gitweb making links to bugtracker issues,\n> bugtracker having links to gitweb; perhaps incrementing revision\n> numbers...).\nRuby (or YARV, I don't remember exactly) uses a bug tracking system\nthat depends heavily on mailing lists (open bug with a mail, close bug\nwith a mail ...). The benefit is that we have at least bug numbers :-)\n\n> --\n> Jakub Narebski\n> Warsaw, Poland\n> ShadeHawk on #git\n--\nDuy\n"},{"id":"27376","messageId":"20060921170043.GZ8259@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"5541","inReplyTo":"fcaeb9bf0609210949l3d7e6e1ch825d2ef31caae89a@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Survey summary","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-09-21T17:00:43Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-21T17:00:43Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 06:49:52PM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy said that...\n> Anyway it's still good to clearly state the git mailing list is for\n> discussion, bug reports and feature requests in git.7 man page\n> (together with git homepage maybe)\n\nOk, I tried to clarify that.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\n#!/bin/perl -sp0777i