{"thread":{"id":"5465","subject":"Bogofilter is my emails","startedAt":"2006-09-03T04:02:22Z","lastAt":"2006-09-04T05:46:22Z","messageCount":5,"participants":["Shawn Pearce","Davide Libenzi","Linus Torvalds","Junio C Hamano","Martin Langhoff"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"26274","messageId":"20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org","threadId":"5465","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Bogofilter is my emails","fromName":"Shawn Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2006-09-03T04:02:22Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-03T04:02:22Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Bogofilter ate two messages today that I tried to send to this\nmailing list. At least I got back bounce messages from it.\n\nI'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list.\nNeither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them\nbut I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style\ntwice tripped bogofilter's spam switch.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n\n-- \nVGER BF report: S 1\n"},{"id":"26275","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0609031543050.4517@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com","threadId":"5465","inReplyTo":"20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Bogofilter is my emails","fromName":"Davide Libenzi","fromEmail":"davidel@xmailserver.org","sentAt":"2006-09-03T22:53:49Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-03T22:53:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"davidel@xmailserver.org","avatar":null},"body":"On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Shawn Pearce wrote:\n\n> Bogofilter ate two messages today that I tried to send to this\n> mailing list. At least I got back bounce messages from it.\n>\n> I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list.\n> Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them\n> but I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style\n> twice tripped bogofilter's spam switch.\n\nMaybe Matti trained the filter using the lkml corpus. Just sprinkle a few \nlinux-kernel hot words in your posts ;)\n\n\n\n- Davide\n\n\n\n-- \nVGER BF report: U 0.926352\n"},{"id":"26277","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0609031550330.27779@g5.osdl.org","threadId":"5465","inReplyTo":"20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Bogofilter is my emails","fromName":"Linus Torvalds","fromEmail":"torvalds@osdl.org","sentAt":"2006-09-03T23:09:38Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-03T23:09:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"torvalds@linux-foundation.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=4"},"body":"\n\nOn Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Shawn Pearce wrote:\n> \n> I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list.\n> Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them\n> but I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style\n> twice tripped bogofilter's spam switch.\n\nI'm surprised and disgusted that vger started using bogofilter.\n\nLast I saw, the bogofilter approach was totally bogus, using purely \nsingle-word frequencies (or, more strictly, a \"does word X exist or not\", \nwhere X has often gone through what a linguist would probably call a \n\"lemmatizer\", ie something that turns different forms of the same word \ninto its canonical word, aka \"lemma\") for its \"bayesian\" filtering.\n\nMaybe they've enhanced it enough since, but it certainly used to be not \nonly fairly easy to fool, since it at least originally didn't take any \naccount at all of any more complex structure. \n\nThere's even some papers about how the bayesian thing does not work well \n(even when extended to do some phrases and with lemmatization) if the \ncut-off is hard.\n\nI think the bogofilter is probably an acceptable input as _one_ of many \nrules for a real spam-filter (ie as one of many spamassassin rules), but \nnot for what vger does.\n\nHard rules at mail acceptance are much better if they use some really hard \ndatum. For example, checking that the sending site actually also receives \nemail, and that it resolves back to itself. That's one thing that OSDL \ndoes, for example, and it means that you can only send me email if your \nmachine is actually designated as a MX gateway. That cuts down on a _lot_ \nof spam.\n\n(I'd love to speak of the details, but I wouldn't know. Kees Cook set it \nall up at osdl, and I can just say that it works beautifully.)\n\n\t\tLinus\n\n-- \nVGER BF report: U 0.720981\n"},{"id":"26278","messageId":"7vy7t0s9ug.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","threadId":"5465","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0609031550330.27779@g5.osdl.org","subject":"Re: Bogofilter is my emails","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"junkio@cox.net","sentAt":"2006-09-04T01:23:51Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-04T01:23:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Linus Torvalds writes:\n\n> On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Shawn Pearce wrote:\n>> \n>> I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list.\n>> Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them\n>> but I'm certainly a little curious as to how my email writing style\n>> twice tripped bogofilter's spam switch.\n>\n> I'm surprised and disgusted that vger started using bogofilter.\n>...\n> \t\tLinus\n>\n> -- \n> VGER BF report: U 0.720981\n\nHehe, and it still considers that your message is highly spammy\n(1.0 being definite spam, 0.0 being definite ham, if I am not\nmistaken).\n\nThe filter at least should learn to recognize \"^\\t\\tLinus$\" ;-).\n\n\n-- \nVGER BF report: U 0.669453\n"},{"id":"26283","messageId":"46a038f90609032246h634cfa4amf5ebe4b41a0f6fb8@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"5465","inReplyTo":"20060903040222.GB29756@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Bogofilter is my emails","fromName":"Martin Langhoff","fromEmail":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-09-04T05:46:22Z","receivedAt":"2006-09-04T05:46:22Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/1e3f311b6c4c15836501901ca58f8c0b0667246488084ba524d8bc9867e22fd9?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On 9/3/06, Shawn Pearce wrote:\n> I'm not quite sure how to fix either message to get them to the list.\n> Neither email was a patch so I'm not going to try resending them\n\nWell, it's just eaten 2 trivial patches of mine. Grumble.\n\nI am resending them via a different smtp host with the assumption that\nthe rules may be blocking emails sent via localhost on the initial hop\nor other smtp-routing-related rule.\n\nDiscussion however seems to imply that bogofilter is only\nemail-content based? The vger mta admins need to get a grip on 2006\nand use a combination of weighted rules to play the spam blocking game\nwith at least some hope.\n\nSimple rulesets nowadays are triggered by ham way more often than spam.\n\ncheers,\n\n\n\nmartin\n\n-- \nVGER BF report: U 0.550887\n"}]}