{"thread":{"id":"53913","subject":"Git Inclusion Summit","startedAt":"2020-07-23T19:30:42Z","lastAt":"2020-07-29T19:30:01Z","messageCount":13,"participants":["Carmen Andoh","Jonathan Nieder","Junio C Hamano","Eric Wong","Taylor Blau","Jeff King","Kaartic Sivaraam"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"401955","messageId":"CA+TwhoKBYwUKmtQTyiocPWJD=KeZQryS+6Q8JKxKgLEy0qJwAw@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Carmen Andoh","fromEmail":"candoh@google.com","sentAt":"2020-07-23T19:30:27Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-23T19:30:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"candoh@google.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hello Git community,\n\nThere's been some conversation about holding a virtual contributor\nsummit focused on inclusion [1]. I've volunteered to work with\nJonathan Nieder’s team on organizing this event.\n\nThe purpose of this inclusion summit is to engage core Git\ncontributors as active participants in diversity and inclusion\ninitiatives for the Git project. As mentioned [2] \"to align and\ncoordinate, to set out goals that we want to agree on.\" This is part\nof a broader goal to make the Git version control system better\nsupport inclusive open source projects. The summit will give\ncontributors the opportunity to learn about and share perspectives on\ninclusive culture, product inclusion, and career development.\n\nThis can be run unconference style like previous contributor summits:\nwe'll use a spreadsheet to choose and vote on topics. This event will\nbe a success if we walk away with specific recommendations on where\nand how Git will make changes to improve the experiences of\nunderrepresented users in the Git project, and how to make the Git\nproject better represent the needs of current and potential users.\n\nIt was mentioned in [1] that we should have conversations about equity\nand inclusion with more diverse voices present. But we also don’t\nwant to put a burden on individuals coming to educate us about things\nthat we should be researching for ourselves. To that end, we are\nmeeting with Diversity, Equity, Inclusion (DEI) experts for guidance\nand will have recommendations to incorporate into the summit. Prior to\nthe summit, we will send out some resources to look through ahead of\ntime.\n\nWho all are invited?\n\nGit core contributors on https://lore.kernel.org/git/., anyone\ninterested in teaching OSS projects about DEI.\n\nIf your network includes any groups or individuals who focus on\neducating others about DEI, you're welcome to invite them or contact\nsummit organizers to learn more. We prefer groups and individuals who\nare in the business of educating on inclusion, or if they are\nvolunteers, already explicitly expressed their interest in\nvolunteering rather than being asked, as we want to be very mindful of\nfree emotional labor. A bonus for knowledge of inclusion in open\nsource. We can widen our understanding by asking non-Git contributors\nto come share their perspectives for some or all of the summit.\n\nWhen?\nAnytime between mid August - mid September. To get consensus on\npreferred dates [3], including summit duration and times, please vote\nat the whenisgood link below by Thursday, July 30th. Please specify in\ncomments if you prefer a .5 day, 1 day, 1.5 days or other for the\nevent duration.\n\nNext Steps:\nOnce a reasonable consensus has been reached, we’ll set the date and\ntime, ask for RSVPs via email, and send a planning spreadsheet to\nstart proposing topics and crowdsourcing the agenda.\n\nI have questions, who should I contact?\n\nFor questions or concerns, please reach out to git-inclusion@googlegroups.com\n\nInterested in helping to plan this event?\nEmail git-inclusion@googlegroups.com to join\n\n\n[1] https://lore.kernel.org/git/20200610222719.GE148632@google.com\n[2]https://lore.kernel.org/git/nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2006121525140.56@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet/\n[3] http://whenisgood.net/9z2diyy\n\nThanks,\nCarmen Andoh\nOpen Source Programs Office, Google\n"},{"id":"401963","messageId":"20200723205928.GB3579560@google.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"CA+TwhoKBYwUKmtQTyiocPWJD=KeZQryS+6Q8JKxKgLEy0qJwAw@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Jonathan Nieder","fromEmail":"jrnieder@gmail.com","sentAt":"2020-07-23T20:59:28Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-23T20:59:32Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jrnieder@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/281595?v=4"},"body":"(cc-ing some people from the previous discussion[1])\nHi,\n\nCarmen Andoh wrote:\n\n> There's been some conversation about holding a virtual contributor\n> summit focused on inclusion [1]. I've volunteered to work with\n> Jonathan Nieder’s team on organizing this event.\n\nWelcome!\n\n[...]\n> This can be run unconference style like previous contributor summits:\n> we'll use a spreadsheet to choose and vote on topics.\n\nThat worked well in [4], so sounds good to me.\n\n[...]\n> Who all are invited?\n>\n> Git core contributors on https://lore.kernel.org/git/., anyone\n> interested in teaching OSS projects about DEI.\n[...]\n> When?\n> Anytime between mid August - mid September. To get consensus on\n> preferred dates [3], including summit duration and times, please vote\n> at the whenisgood link below by Thursday, July 30th. Please specify in\n> comments if you prefer a .5 day, 1 day, 1.5 days or other for the\n> event duration.\n\nThe 2019 Git contributors summit was two half-days, which seemed to work\nwell. That made it easier to get some time zone overlap between Europe\nand the United States. More time than that in a day on video and\npeople would start to get tired.\n\nThoughts about how to get reasonable coverage for people in different\ntime zones? It's subtle, but the whenisgood link appears to assume\nU.S. pacific time --- I'd be willing to start a little earlier or end\na little later if it makes participation from other time zones easier.\n\nThanks,\nJonathan\n\n> [1] https://lore.kernel.org/git/20200610222719.GE148632@google.com\n> [2] https://lore.kernel.org/git/nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2006121525140.56@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet/\n> [3] http://whenisgood.net/9z2diyy\n[4] https://lore.kernel.org/git/nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.1907031429420.44@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet/\n"},{"id":"401971","messageId":"xmqq1rl1q35q.fsf@gitster.c.googlers.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"20200723205928.GB3579560@google.com","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2020-07-23T22:26:09Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-23T22:26:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jonathan Nieder writes:\n\n> Carmen Andoh wrote:\n>\n>> There's been some conversation about holding a virtual contributor\n>> summit focused on inclusion [1]. I've volunteered to work with\n>> Jonathan Nieder’s team on organizing this event.\n>\n> Welcome!\n\nYup, welcome and thanks for helping.\n\n> Thoughts about how to get reasonable coverage for people in different\n> time zones? It's subtle, but the whenisgood link appears to assume\n> U.S. pacific time --- I'd be willing to start a little earlier or end\n> a little later if it makes participation from other time zones easier.\n\nFWIW, we've timed coordinated security releases at late afternoon\nEuropean, which translates to early afternoon Eastern and late\nmorning Pacific time. It was a bit inconvenient when I was in east\nAsia where it is past midnight but it was OK as it was convenient\nfor everybody else.\n\nThe intended population may be somewhat different for this event,\nbut I suspect that the difference is not all that much. Or am I\nnot being inclusive enough for our Asian friends by assuming so?\n"},{"id":"401994","messageId":"CA+TwhoLmR7vi0R6R-Wac7bvFoy+XQzX_OhGb090fzo=7REo4Hg@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"xmqq1rl1q35q.fsf@gitster.c.googlers.com","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Carmen Andoh","fromEmail":"candoh@google.com","sentAt":"2020-07-24T12:55:05Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-24T12:55:24Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"candoh@google.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hello all,\n\nFirst test of inclusion: be inclusive of time zones.\nI've updated the whenisgood [1] to accept a broader time range. From\n6am to 9pm Pacific to be more doable for people in EMEA and APAC. To\nthose who have already responded with time preferences, can you submit\nanother response with the new times? Jonathan's suggestion of having\nmultiple half days at different times could be a good compromise (one\nday you wake up early, another day you stay up late).\n\n[1] https://whenisgood.net/9z2diyy\n\nOn Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 6:26 PM Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>\n> Jonathan Nieder writes:\n>\n> > Carmen Andoh wrote:\n> >\n> >> There's been some conversation about holding a virtual contributor\n> >> summit focused on inclusion [1]. I've volunteered to work with\n> >> Jonathan Nieder’s team on organizing this event.\n> >\n> > Welcome!\n>\n> Yup, welcome and thanks for helping.\n>\n> > Thoughts about how to get reasonable coverage for people in different\n> > time zones? It's subtle, but the whenisgood link appears to assume\n> > U.S. pacific time --- I'd be willing to start a little earlier or end\n> > a little later if it makes participation from other time zones easier.\n>\n> FWIW, we've timed coordinated security releases at late afternoon\n> European, which translates to early afternoon Eastern and late\n> morning Pacific time. It was a bit inconvenient when I was in east\n> Asia where it is past midnight but it was OK as it was convenient\n> for everybody else.\n>\n> The intended population may be somewhat different for this event,\n> but I suspect that the difference is not all that much. Or am I\n> not being inclusive enough for our Asian friends by assuming so?\n"},{"id":"402051","messageId":"20200726040226.GA19030@dcvr","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"CA+TwhoKBYwUKmtQTyiocPWJD=KeZQryS+6Q8JKxKgLEy0qJwAw@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Eric Wong","fromEmail":"e@80x24.org","sentAt":"2020-07-26T04:02:26Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-26T04:02:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"e@80x24.org","avatar":null},"body":"Carmen Andoh wrote:\n> Hello Git community,\n> \n> There's been some conversation about holding a virtual contributor\n> summit focused on inclusion [1]. I've volunteered to work with\n> Jonathan Nieder’s team on organizing this event.\n> \n> The purpose of this inclusion summit is to engage core Git\n> contributors as active participants in diversity and inclusion\n> initiatives for the Git project. As mentioned [2] \"to align and\n> coordinate, to set out goals that we want to agree on.\" This is part\n> of a broader goal to make the Git version control system better\n> support inclusive open source projects. The summit will give\n> contributors the opportunity to learn about and share perspectives on\n> inclusive culture, product inclusion, and career development.\n> \n> This can be run unconference style like previous contributor summits:\n> we'll use a spreadsheet to choose and vote on topics. This event will\n> be a success if we walk away with specific recommendations on where\n> and how Git will make changes to improve the experiences of\n> underrepresented users in the Git project, and how to make the Git\n> project better represent the needs of current and potential users.\n> \n> It was mentioned in [1] that we should have conversations about equity\n> and inclusion with more diverse voices present. But we also don’t\n> want to put a burden on individuals coming to educate us about things\n> that we should be researching for ourselves. To that end, we are\n> meeting with Diversity, Equity, Inclusion (DEI) experts for guidance\n> and will have recommendations to incorporate into the summit. Prior to\n> the summit, we will send out some resources to look through ahead of\n> time.\n> \n> Who all are invited?\n> \n> Git core contributors on https://lore.kernel.org/git/., anyone\n> interested in teaching OSS projects about DEI.\n> \n> If your network includes any groups or individuals who focus on\n> educating others about DEI, you're welcome to invite them or contact\n> summit organizers to learn more. We prefer groups and individuals who\n> are in the business of educating on inclusion, or if they are\n> volunteers, already explicitly expressed their interest in\n> volunteering rather than being asked, as we want to be very mindful of\n> free emotional labor. A bonus for knowledge of inclusion in open\n> source. We can widen our understanding by asking non-Git contributors\n> to come share their perspectives for some or all of the summit.\n\nHello, I'm only an occasional contributor to git since 2005;\nbut I have many concerns which don't seem be brought up.\n\nI have several concerns about the increasing use of video\nconferencing in Open Source development in general.\n\n1. The data can potentially be used to feed facial and\n voice recognition (either by the host or some participant).\n\n I haven't allowed myself to be photographed in over a decade\n and never video conferenced. I've also turned down countless\n professional and personal opportunities because of this, along\n with never flying due to invasive screenings at airports.\n\n2. Even without the privacy perspective, I have some hearing loss\n and conversations can be difficult. There's plenty of folks\n with more severe hearing loss than mine who'd be left out.\n\n3. It seems much of the software used for video conferencing\n proprietary, even though Free (as in speech) alternatives exist.\n I don't know enough about this area but maybe others can chime\n in.\n\n4. Finally, the hardware and bandwidth requirements for video\n streaming is high. Poorer folks on slow computers or in areas\n with expensive bandwidth would also be left out.\n\n And one of the reasons I don't code as much as I used to is\n both gcc and clang are taking longer to compile with every\n release and our test suite isn't exactly fast.\n\nSo yes, I'd like these concerns addressed even though I'm not\nwilling to be on video or deal with JavaScript. Thanks.\n\n\n/me goes back to making public-inbox (and thus lore) faster on\n rusty old hardware...\n"},{"id":"402134","messageId":"20200727151023.GB62919@syl.lan","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"20200726040226.GA19030@dcvr","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Taylor Blau","fromEmail":"me@ttaylorr.com","sentAt":"2020-07-27T15:10:23Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-27T15:10:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"me@ttaylorr.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/301000140?v=4"},"body":"On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 04:02:26AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n> Carmen Andoh wrote:\n> > Hello Git community,\n> >\n> > There's been some conversation about holding a virtual contributor\n> > summit focused on inclusion [1]. I've volunteered to work with\n> > Jonathan Nieder’s team on organizing this event.\n> >\n> > The purpose of this inclusion summit is to engage core Git\n> > contributors as active participants in diversity and inclusion\n> > initiatives for the Git project. As mentioned [2] \"to align and\n> > coordinate, to set out goals that we want to agree on.\" This is part\n> > of a broader goal to make the Git version control system better\n> > support inclusive open source projects. The summit will give\n> > contributors the opportunity to learn about and share perspectives on\n> > inclusive culture, product inclusion, and career development.\n> >\n> > This can be run unconference style like previous contributor summits:\n> > we'll use a spreadsheet to choose and vote on topics. This event will\n> > be a success if we walk away with specific recommendations on where\n> > and how Git will make changes to improve the experiences of\n> > underrepresented users in the Git project, and how to make the Git\n> > project better represent the needs of current and potential users.\n> >\n> > It was mentioned in [1] that we should have conversations about equity\n> > and inclusion with more diverse voices present. But we also don’t\n> > want to put a burden on individuals coming to educate us about things\n> > that we should be researching for ourselves. To that end, we are\n> > meeting with Diversity, Equity, Inclusion (DEI) experts for guidance\n> > and will have recommendations to incorporate into the summit. Prior to\n> > the summit, we will send out some resources to look through ahead of\n> > time.\n> >\n> > Who all are invited?\n> >\n> > Git core contributors on https://lore.kernel.org/git/., anyone\n> > interested in teaching OSS projects about DEI.\n> >\n> > If your network includes any groups or individuals who focus on\n> > educating others about DEI, you're welcome to invite them or contact\n> > summit organizers to learn more. We prefer groups and individuals who\n> > are in the business of educating on inclusion, or if they are\n> > volunteers, already explicitly expressed their interest in\n> > volunteering rather than being asked, as we want to be very mindful of\n> > free emotional labor. A bonus for knowledge of inclusion in open\n> > source. We can widen our understanding by asking non-Git contributors\n> > to come share their perspectives for some or all of the summit.\n>\n> Hello, I'm only an occasional contributor to git since 2005;\n> but I have many concerns which don't seem be brought up.\n>\n> I have several concerns about the increasing use of video\n> conferencing in Open Source development in general.\n>\n> 1. The data can potentially be used to feed facial and\n> voice recognition (either by the host or some participant).\n>\n> I haven't allowed myself to be photographed in over a decade\n> and never video conferenced. I've also turned down countless\n> professional and personal opportunities because of this, along\n> with never flying due to invasive screenings at airports.\n>\n> 2. Even without the privacy perspective, I have some hearing loss\n> and conversations can be difficult. There's plenty of folks\n> with more severe hearing loss than mine who'd be left out.\n>\n> 3. It seems much of the software used for video conferencing\n> proprietary, even though Free (as in speech) alternatives exist.\n> I don't know enough about this area but maybe others can chime\n> in.\n>\n> 4. Finally, the hardware and bandwidth requirements for video\n> streaming is high. Poorer folks on slow computers or in areas\n> with expensive bandwidth would also be left out.\n>\n> And one of the reasons I don't code as much as I used to is\n> both gcc and clang are taking longer to compile with every\n> release and our test suite isn't exactly fast.\n>\n> So yes, I'd like these concerns addressed even though I'm not\n> willing to be on video or deal with JavaScript. Thanks.\n\nI think that it's tough to make individuals on both sides of this feel\ncomfortable. On the one hand, folks such as yourself may feel\nuncomfortable with this format for the reasons that you posted above. On\nthe other hand, some folks may prefer audio or video instead of text\nbecause they find it easier to express themselves with their body\nlanguage, intonation, etc.\n\nA bare minimum seems to be using a free service (I know that Jitsi Meet\nis an often-recommended alternative) with support for joining without\nvideo (either using audio only, or participating over chat).\n\nHopefully everybody should have a good-enough internet connection to\nstream a low-quality audio-only feed so that they can listen in and\nparticipate via the chat feature. This is what we did at the\nContributor's Summit in March (I know we had a number of text-only\nparticipants in time-zones where it was late, etc.).\n\nWhat are your thoughts?\n\n> /me goes back to making public-inbox (and thus lore) faster on\n> rusty old hardware...\n\n;-)\n\nThanks,\nTaylor\n"},{"id":"402188","messageId":"20200728100726.GA24408@dcvr","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"20200727151023.GB62919@syl.lan","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Eric Wong","fromEmail":"e@80x24.org","sentAt":"2020-07-28T10:07:26Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-28T10:07:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"e@80x24.org","avatar":null},"body":"Taylor Blau wrote:\n\n\n\n> I think that it's tough to make individuals on both sides of this feel\n> comfortable. On the one hand, folks such as yourself may feel\n> uncomfortable with this format for the reasons that you posted above. On\n> the other hand, some folks may prefer audio or video instead of text\n> because they find it easier to express themselves with their body\n> language, intonation, etc.\n\nI can understand that. However most coding nowadays (especially\nfor this project) is text, so that's already the lowest common\ndenominator.\n\n> A bare minimum seems to be using a free service (I know that Jitsi Meet\n> is an often-recommended alternative) with support for joining without\n> video (either using audio only, or participating over chat).\n> \n> Hopefully everybody should have a good-enough internet connection to\n> stream a low-quality audio-only feed so that they can listen in and\n> participate via the chat feature. This is what we did at the\n> Contributor's Summit in March (I know we had a number of text-only\n> participants in time-zones where it was late, etc.).\n> \n> What are your thoughts?\n\nJitsi w/ audio-only certainly seems to be a step in the right\ndirection and would be more inclusive.\n\nIs there any speech-to-text transcription done for the hearing\n(or extremely bandwidth) impaired?\n\nIt'd ideally go to #git on IRC (or something that doesn't\nrequire a browser to trigger swap storms on old systems).\n\nEven for people with good hearing, acceptable audio quality for\nspeech seems tricky to get right, being dependent on mics,\nbandwidth, codecs, background noise, speaker/earphone quality,\netc.\n"},{"id":"402209","messageId":"20200728162528.GH87373@syl.lan","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"20200728100726.GA24408@dcvr","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Taylor Blau","fromEmail":"me@ttaylorr.com","sentAt":"2020-07-28T16:25:28Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-28T16:25:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"me@ttaylorr.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/301000140?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:07:26AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n> Taylor Blau wrote:\n>\n> \n>\n> > I think that it's tough to make individuals on both sides of this feel\n> > comfortable. On the one hand, folks such as yourself may feel\n> > uncomfortable with this format for the reasons that you posted above. On\n> > the other hand, some folks may prefer audio or video instead of text\n> > because they find it easier to express themselves with their body\n> > language, intonation, etc.\n>\n> I can understand that. However most coding nowadays (especially\n> for this project) is text, so that's already the lowest common\n> denominator.\n>\n> > A bare minimum seems to be using a free service (I know that Jitsi Meet\n> > is an often-recommended alternative) with support for joining without\n> > video (either using audio only, or participating over chat).\n> >\n> > Hopefully everybody should have a good-enough internet connection to\n> > stream a low-quality audio-only feed so that they can listen in and\n> > participate via the chat feature. This is what we did at the\n> > Contributor's Summit in March (I know we had a number of text-only\n> > participants in time-zones where it was late, etc.).\n> >\n> > What are your thoughts?\n>\n> Jitsi w/ audio-only certainly seems to be a step in the right\n> direction and would be more inclusive.\n>\n> Is there any speech-to-text transcription done for the hearing\n> (or extremely bandwidth) impaired?\n\nIt looks like such a thing exists:\nhttps://jitsi.org/blog/a-speech-to-text-prototype/.\n\n> It'd ideally go to #git on IRC (or something that doesn't\n> require a browser to trigger swap storms on old systems).\n>\n> Even for people with good hearing, acceptable audio quality for\n> speech seems tricky to get right, being dependent on mics,\n> bandwidth, codecs, background noise, speaker/earphone quality,\n> etc.\n\nI haven't look hard enough to see if it supports redirecting its output\nto an IRC channel, but my guess is that it probably doesn't. In either\ncase, hopefully disabling audio and video is possible within Jitsi's web\nUI, and you should be able to read or write in the chat as well as read\nthe transcription.\n\nThanks,\nTaylor\n"},{"id":"402217","messageId":"20200728164454.GA2650362@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"20200728100726.GA24408@dcvr","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2020-07-28T16:44:54Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-28T16:44:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:07:26AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n\n> > Hopefully everybody should have a good-enough internet connection to\n> > stream a low-quality audio-only feed so that they can listen in and\n> > participate via the chat feature. This is what we did at the\n> > Contributor's Summit in March (I know we had a number of text-only\n> > participants in time-zones where it was late, etc.).\n> > \n> > What are your thoughts?\n> \n> Jitsi w/ audio-only certainly seems to be a step in the right\n> direction and would be more inclusive.\n> \n> Is there any speech-to-text transcription done for the hearing\n> (or extremely bandwidth) impaired?\n> \n> It'd ideally go to #git on IRC (or something that doesn't\n> require a browser to trigger swap storms on old systems).\n\nWhether we have automatic speech-to-text conversion or not, I think it\nwould be good for people involved to take and publish notes summarizing\nthe conversation. One of the important things about our usual async\nwritten communication is that it gives people time to organize their\nthoughts and say what they want succinctly. Live conversations are often\nfull of false starts and rambling. That's OK, and a necessary part of\nthe process. But if you want a wider audience to follow along, it helps\nto turn that into something more time efficient for readers.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"402224","messageId":"6b4b3f77-a479-4d7b-d7c2-e3e35e658ac7@gmail.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"20200728162528.GH87373@syl.lan","subject":"Re: Git Inclusion Summit","fromName":"Kaartic Sivaraam","fromEmail":"kaartic.sivaraam@gmail.com","sentAt":"2020-07-28T17:15:08Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-28T17:15:14Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"kaartic.sivaraam@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/12448084?v=4"},"body":"On 28-07-2020 21:55, Taylor Blau wrote:\n> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:07:26AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n>>\n>> Jitsi w/ audio-only certainly seems to be a step in the right\n>> direction and would be more inclusive.\n>>\n>> Is there any speech-to-text transcription done for the hearing\n>> (or extremely bandwidth) impaired?\n> \n> It looks like such a thing exists:\n> https://jitsi.org/blog/a-speech-to-text-prototype/.\n> \n\nYeah. A link with current information appears to be:\n\nhttps://github.com/jitsi/jigasi#using-jigasi-to-transcribe-a-jitsi-meet-conference\n\n>> It'd ideally go to #git on IRC (or something that doesn't\n>> require a browser to trigger swap storms on old systems).\n>>\n>> Even for people with good hearing, acceptable audio quality for\n>> speech seems tricky to get right, being dependent on mics,\n>> bandwidth, codecs, background noise, speaker/earphone quality,\n>> etc.\n> \n> I haven't look hard enough to see if it supports redirecting its output\n> to an IRC channel, but my guess is that it probably doesn't.\n\nI believe you're right. From the link above:\n\n> Currently Jigasi can send speech-to-text results to the chat of a\n> Jitsi Meet room as either plain text or JSON. If it's send in JSON,\n> Jitsi Meet will provide subtitles in the left corner of the video,\n> while plain text will just be posted in the chat.\n\n> In either\n> case, hopefully disabling audio and video is possible within Jitsi's web\n> UI, and you should be able to read or write in the chat as well as read\n> the transcription.\n> \n\nI think there's just one catch. The transcription as of now appears to\nuse Google Cloud speech-to-text API. Well, its Google. I'll let you make\nyour own inferences. In any case, it hopefully wouldn't be a concern for\npeople who _read_ the transcription.\n\n-- \nSivaraam\n"},{"id":"402338","messageId":"CA+TwhoJqm-EB6OkLOr6+B4RZfaQ7aVde+hSrSeWV-jYkfBLGNg@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"6b4b3f77-a479-4d7b-d7c2-e3e35e658ac7@gmail.com","subject":"24 hours to respond with date/duration preferences for inclusion summit","fromName":"Carmen Andoh","fromEmail":"candoh@google.com","sentAt":"2020-07-29T17:00:00Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-29T17:01:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"candoh@google.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 1:15 PM Kaartic Sivaraam\n wrote:\n>\n> On 28-07-2020 21:55, Taylor Blau wrote:\n> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:07:26AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n> >>\n> >> Jitsi w/ audio-only certainly seems to be a step in the right\n> >> direction and would be more inclusive.\n> >>\n> >> Is there any speech-to-text transcription done for the hearing\n> >> (or extremely bandwidth) impaired?\n> >\n> > It looks like such a thing exists:\n> > https://jitsi.org/blog/a-speech-to-text-prototype/.\n> >\n>\n> Yeah. A link with current information appears to be:\n>\n> https://github.com/jitsi/jigasi#using-jigasi-to-transcribe-a-jitsi-meet-conference\n>\n> >> It'd ideally go to #git on IRC (or something that doesn't\n> >> require a browser to trigger swap storms on old systems).\n> >>\n> >> Even for people with good hearing, acceptable audio quality for\n> >> speech seems tricky to get right, being dependent on mics,\n> >> bandwidth, codecs, background noise, speaker/earphone quality,\n> >> etc.\n> >\n> > I haven't look hard enough to see if it supports redirecting its output\n> > to an IRC channel, but my guess is that it probably doesn't.\n>\n> I believe you're right. From the link above:\n>\n> > Currently Jigasi can send speech-to-text results to the chat of a\n> > Jitsi Meet room as either plain text or JSON. If it's send in JSON,\n> > Jitsi Meet will provide subtitles in the left corner of the video,\n> > while plain text will just be posted in the chat.\n>\n> > In either\n> > case, hopefully disabling audio and video is possible within Jitsi's web\n> > UI, and you should be able to read or write in the chat as well as read\n> > the transcription.\n> >\n>\n> I think there's just one catch. The transcription as of now appears to\n> use Google Cloud speech-to-text API. Well, its Google. I'll let you make\n> your own inferences. In any case, it hopefully wouldn't be a concern for\n> people who _read_ the transcription.\n>\n> --\n> Sivaraam\n\nHello All,\n\nJust a reminder that you have another day to respond to whenisgood\n[1]. Note that times are listed as 6AM-9PM (21:00) Pacific. Please\nspecify duration preferences ( half days, full days, etc) in\ncomments. Hopefully we'll respond soon after that with date/s that\nworks for most.\n\n[1] http://whenisgood.net/9z2diyy\n\n-Carmen\n"},{"id":"402345","messageId":"xmqqzh7i9o11.fsf@gitster.c.googlers.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"CA+TwhoJqm-EB6OkLOr6+B4RZfaQ7aVde+hSrSeWV-jYkfBLGNg@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: 24 hours to respond with date/duration preferences for inclusion summit","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2020-07-29T18:25:30Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-29T18:25:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Carmen Andoh writes:\n\n> Hello All,\n>\n> Just a reminder that you have another day to respond to whenisgood\n> [1]. Note that times are listed as 6AM-9PM (21:00) Pacific. Please\n> specify duration preferences ( half days, full days, etc) in\n> comments. Hopefully we'll respond soon after that with date/s that\n> works for most.\n\nSorry for sending this on the last day. \n\nAfter re-reading the original announcement and the above part, I am\nwondering if responding to the \"when is the good time for you?\" poll\nis a requirement to be invited. My tentative understanding is that\nthis is merely to help resolove scheduling conflicts, and those who\nwant to attend but have no particular time/date preference can just\nstay silent and wait for the invitation to come, to which they are\nrequired to respond via e-mail in order to attend.\n\nI suspect many people are wondering about the same thing and\na bit of clarification may help.\n\nThanks.\n"},{"id":"402353","messageId":"CA+TwhoLrkf6Z1g0NxYN5OsRwV85ONQKY05J0fiQN6tKQR035gQ@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"53913","inReplyTo":"xmqqzh7i9o11.fsf@gitster.c.googlers.com","subject":"Re: 24 hours to respond with date/duration preferences for inclusion summit","fromName":"Carmen Andoh","fromEmail":"candoh@google.com","sentAt":"2020-07-29T19:29:47Z","receivedAt":"2020-07-29T19:30:01Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"candoh@google.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 2:25 PM Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>\n> Carmen Andoh writes:\n>\n> > Hello All,\n> >\n> > Just a reminder that you have another day to respond to whenisgood\n> > [1]. Note that times are listed as 6AM-9PM (21:00) Pacific. Please\n> > specify duration preferences ( half days, full days, etc) in\n> > comments. Hopefully we'll respond soon after that with date/s that\n> > works for most.\n>\n> Sorry for sending this on the last day.\n>\n> After re-reading the original announcement and the above part, I am\n> wondering if responding to the \"when is the good time for you?\" poll\n> is a requirement to be invited. My tentative understanding is that\n> this is merely to help resolove scheduling conflicts, and those who\n> want to attend but have no particular time/date preference can just\n> stay silent and wait for the invitation to come, to which they are\n> required to respond via e-mail in order to attend.\n>\n> I suspect many people are wondering about the same thing and\n> a bit of clarification may help.\n>\n\nThanks for the question Junio. Yes, this initial solicitation is\nmerely to get a feeling for what the best times and durations would\nbe. It does not mean indication of attendance, registration, or\nfunctioning as an RSVP. This will come in a subsequent communication,\nwith a date/s and times chosen based on the survey. ~C\n\n> Thanks.\n"}]}