{"thread":{"id":"52774","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","startedAt":"2020-02-10T21:01:52Z","lastAt":"2020-02-13T04:45:50Z","messageCount":10,"participants":["Abhishek Kumar","Aleksey Midenkov","Andrew Clayton","Jeff King","Sergey Organov","Junio C Hamano"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"391491","messageId":"CAHk66ftUsKU2+Uhy-a7V5QcRdO7ShcYUk28qz7WAm28wGFmPOg@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Abhishek Kumar","fromEmail":"abhishekkumar8222@gmail.com","sentAt":"2020-02-10T21:00:00Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-10T21:01:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"abhishekkumar8222@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/31231064?v=4"},"body":"Greetings Aleksey\n\nYou can look into using `--short` and `--porcelain` flags.\n\n> Git offered enabling/disabling advice by using the 'advice.*' key in the configuration.\n\nRead up on this StackOverflow question on \"How to turn off the help\nhints in git output?\" [1]. These should do the trick, but feel free to\nelaborate if you need something more specific.\n\nRegards\nAbhishek\n\n[1]: https://stackoverflow.com/q/55463863\n"},{"id":"391527","messageId":"CAF8BazCpFyr_tpayWVtbk7V2LAtXaVmEKTCRQbgLYg4AvmvLvQ@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"CAHk66ftUsKU2+Uhy-a7V5QcRdO7ShcYUk28qz7WAm28wGFmPOg@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Aleksey Midenkov","fromEmail":"midenok@gmail.com","sentAt":"2020-02-11T14:19:53Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-11T14:20:09Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"midenok@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hi Abhishek!\n\nNice info, thanks. Does that disable maintenance messages like:\n\nUpdated 1 path from the index\n\nOr gc about garbage collection? Actually bad defaults is big problem\ndevelopers undeservedly ignore. You can control everything but you\nhave to switch hundreds of options, because software defaults are\noriented on dumbest user. Let's overcome this bad tendency and satisfy\nsmartest users, not the dumbest ones. Unix was always terse system\nwhich provided little to no output by default. Let's honor that good\ntradition and not submit to \"Google-Got-It\" virus.\n\n\n\nOn Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 12:01 AM Abhishek Kumar\n wrote:\n>\n> Greetings Aleksey\n>\n> You can look into using `--short` and `--porcelain` flags.\n>\n> > Git offered enabling/disabling advice by using the 'advice.*' key in the configuration.\n>\n> Read up on this StackOverflow question on \"How to turn off the help\n> hints in git output?\" [1]. These should do the trick, but feel free to\n> elaborate if you need something more specific.\n>\n> Regards\n> Abhishek\n>\n> [1]: https://stackoverflow.com/q/55463863\n\n\n\n--\nAll the best,\n\nAleksey Midenkov\n@midenok\n"},{"id":"391563","messageId":"20200211190852.722e5e10@kappa.digital-domain.net","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"CAF8BazCpFyr_tpayWVtbk7V2LAtXaVmEKTCRQbgLYg4AvmvLvQ@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Andrew Clayton","fromEmail":"andrew@digital-domain.net","sentAt":"2020-02-11T19:08:52Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-11T19:18:47Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"andrew@digital-domain.net","avatar":null},"body":"On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:19:53 +0300\nAleksey Midenkov wrote:\n\n> Or gc about garbage collection? Actually bad defaults is big problem\n> developers undeservedly ignore. You can control everything but you\n> have to switch hundreds of options, because software defaults are\n> oriented on dumbest user. Let's overcome this bad tendency and satisfy\n> smartest users, not the dumbest ones. Unix was always terse system\n> which provided little to no output by default. Let's honor that good\n> tradition and not submit to \"Google-Got-It\" virus.\n\nI've been using Git for over ten years so hopefully I'm not the\n*dumbest* user, but I still appreciate the various tips and hints Git\nprovides...\n\nDon't really see what the problem with them is and it seems you can\nquieten them if they really bother you that much...\n\nAndrew\n"},{"id":"391572","messageId":"20200211195549.GE2127797@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"CAF8BazCpFyr_tpayWVtbk7V2LAtXaVmEKTCRQbgLYg4AvmvLvQ@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2020-02-11T19:55:49Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-11T19:55:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 05:19:53PM +0300, Aleksey Midenkov wrote:\n\n> Nice info, thanks. Does that disable maintenance messages like:\n> \n> Updated 1 path from the index\n\nI don't think it does. Usually how this works is that we add new\nmessages which we think might be helpful, enable them by default (since\nusers aren't likely to find out about them if they never see them!), and\nthen if they turn out to be annoying or verbose, add an advice.* config\noption to allow people to avoid them.\n\nThe message quoted above is a relatively new one, and I don't think it's\nhit that third step yet. Patches welcome. :)\n\n> Or gc about garbage collection? Actually bad defaults is big problem\n> developers undeservedly ignore. You can control everything but you\n> have to switch hundreds of options, because software defaults are\n> oriented on dumbest user. Let's overcome this bad tendency and satisfy\n> smartest users, not the dumbest ones. Unix was always terse system\n> which provided little to no output by default. Let's honor that good\n> tradition and not submit to \"Google-Got-It\" virus.\n\nThe goal of the process above is to find a balance between experienced\nand inexperienced users. We try to be helpful to one, but provide\noptions for the other to customize.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"391573","messageId":"20200211195627.GF2127797@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"20200211195549.GE2127797@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2020-02-11T19:56:27Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-11T19:56:30Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 02:55:49PM -0500, Jeff King wrote:\n\n> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 05:19:53PM +0300, Aleksey Midenkov wrote:\n> \n> > Nice info, thanks. Does that disable maintenance messages like:\n> > \n> > Updated 1 path from the index\n> \n> I don't think it does. Usually how this works is that we add new\n> messages which we think might be helpful, enable them by default (since\n> users aren't likely to find out about them if they never see them!), and\n> then if they turn out to be annoying or verbose, add an advice.* config\n> option to allow people to avoid them.\n> \n> The message quoted above is a relatively new one, and I don't think it's\n> hit that third step yet. Patches welcome. :)\n\nOh, and if you want to see the complete list, look for \"advice.*\" in\n\"git help config\".\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"391591","messageId":"87k14se849.fsf@osv.gnss.ru","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"20200211195627.GF2127797@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Sergey Organov","fromEmail":"sorganov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2020-02-12T04:34:46Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-12T04:34:54Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sorganov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/8501568?v=4"},"body":"Jeff King writes:\n\n> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 02:55:49PM -0500, Jeff King wrote:\n>\n>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 05:19:53PM +0300, Aleksey Midenkov wrote:\n>> \n>> > Nice info, thanks. Does that disable maintenance messages like:\n>> > \n>> > Updated 1 path from the index\n>> \n>> I don't think it does. Usually how this works is that we add new\n>> messages which we think might be helpful, enable them by default (since\n>> users aren't likely to find out about them if they never see them!), and\n>> then if they turn out to be annoying or verbose, add an advice.* config\n>> option to allow people to avoid them.\n>> \n>> The message quoted above is a relatively new one, and I don't think it's\n>> hit that third step yet. Patches welcome. :)\n>\n> Oh, and if you want to see the complete list, look for \"advice.*\" in\n> \"git help config\".\n\nIt says:\n\n All advice.* variables default to true, and you can tell Git that you\n do not need help by setting these to false:\n\nIf there were an option to set that default to 'false' (advice.default\nmaybe?), it'd have answered the demands of the experts, I think.\n\n-- Sergey\n"},{"id":"391605","messageId":"xmqqblq3vhp0.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"87k14se849.fsf@osv.gnss.ru","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2020-02-12T17:28:11Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-12T17:28:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Sergey Organov writes:\n\n> It says:\n>\n> All advice.* variables default to true, and you can tell Git that you\n> do not need help by setting these to false:\n>\n> If there were an option to set that default to 'false' (advice.default\n> maybe?), it'd have answered the demands of the experts, I think.\n>\n> -- Sergey\n\nThis was recently discussed. A quick search in the list archive\nwould have found this thread, for example:\n\n https://lore.kernel.org/git/xmqqwoa122h1.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com/\n\n"},{"id":"391606","messageId":"xmqq7e0rvhau.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"87k14se849.fsf@osv.gnss.ru","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2020-02-12T17:36:41Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-12T17:36:46Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Sergey Organov writes:\n\n> It says:\n>\n> All advice.* variables default to true, and you can tell Git that you\n> do not need help by setting these to false:\n>\n> If there were an option to set that default to 'false' (advice.default\n> maybe?), it'd have answered the demands of the experts, I think.\n\nWell, just like newbies won't stay to be newbies forever (and that\nis why you can disable advice.frotz once you learned about frotz),\nwhat you call \"experts\" won't stay to be experts, either. A new and\nbackward incompatible way to work may be introduced and a new advice\nmessage to guide _everybody_ (including those who thought they were\nalready experts) may have to be introduced, and turning off all\nadvice.* variables, even the ones that you haven't seen, would hurt\nthem.\n\nSo...\n"},{"id":"391647","messageId":"8736bf3y8n.fsf@osv.gnss.ru","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"xmqq7e0rvhau.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Sergey Organov","fromEmail":"sorganov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2020-02-13T04:30:32Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-13T04:30:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sorganov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/8501568?v=4"},"body":"Junio C Hamano writes:\n\n> Sergey Organov writes:\n>\n>> It says:\n>>\n>> All advice.* variables default to true, and you can tell Git that you\n>> do not need help by setting these to false:\n>>\n>> If there were an option to set that default to 'false' (advice.default\n>> maybe?), it'd have answered the demands of the experts, I think.\n>\n> Well, just like newbies won't stay to be newbies forever (and that\n> is why you can disable advice.frotz once you learned about frotz),\n> what you call \"experts\" won't stay to be experts, either. A new and\n> backward incompatible way to work may be introduced and a new advice\n> message to guide _everybody_ (including those who thought they were\n> already experts) may have to be introduced, and turning off all\n> advice.* variables, even the ones that you haven't seen, would hurt\n> them.\n\nBy \"experts\" here, in the context of particular discussion, I meant\nLinux/UNIX experts who are used to tools being silent, unless verbosity\nis explicitly requested (typical --verbose,-v), or at least having a\nsimple way to make them silent (typical --quiet,-q).\n\n>> So...\n\nSo in fact this has little to do with git proficiency.\n\n-- Sergey\n"},{"id":"391648","messageId":"87sgjf2iyu.fsf@osv.gnss.ru","threadId":"52774","inReplyTo":"xmqqblq3vhp0.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com","subject":"Re: Git tedious verbosity","fromName":"Sergey Organov","fromEmail":"sorganov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2020-02-13T04:45:45Z","receivedAt":"2020-02-13T04:45:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sorganov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/8501568?v=4"},"body":"Junio C Hamano writes:\n\n> Sergey Organov writes:\n>\n>> It says:\n>>\n>> All advice.* variables default to true, and you can tell Git that you\n>> do not need help by setting these to false:\n>>\n>> If there were an option to set that default to 'false' (advice.default\n>> maybe?), it'd have answered the demands of the experts, I think.\n>>\n>> -- Sergey\n>\n> This was recently discussed. A quick search in the list archive\n> would have found this thread, for example:\n>\n> https://lore.kernel.org/git/xmqqwoa122h1.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com/\n\nThanks for pointing! Still ability to configure the default looks both\nsimpler and more flexible to me.\n\n-- Sergey\n"}]}