{"thread":{"id":"52268","subject":"Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com","startedAt":"2019-11-14T19:47:17Z","lastAt":"2019-11-25T14:23:53Z","messageCount":5,"participants":["Emily Shaffer","Eric Wong","Jeff King"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"386198","messageId":"20191114194708.GD60198@google.com","threadId":"52268","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com","fromName":"Emily Shaffer","fromEmail":"emilyshaffer@google.com","sentAt":"2019-11-14T19:47:08Z","receivedAt":"2019-11-14T19:47:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nasamuffin@google.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1606826?v=4"},"body":"Hi all,\n\nSince https://public-inbox.org/git/20191114023100.GD22855@google.com/ is\nwell hidden inside a large thread which diverged into many topics, I'm\nhappy to announce (redundantly) the creation of a git-mentoring mailing\nlist!\n\nYou can join the list to view messages and participate at\nhttps://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/git-mentoring.\n\nThis list is a great place for those who are new to Git and interested\nin learning how to contribute to ask questions and expect kind, thorough\nanswers out of the spotlight of the main Git mailing list. Use this list\nto ask or answer specific questions you have about contributing to the\nGit project; rather than pairing with a specific mentor who may not\nshare your timezone or vacation schedule, you can ask questions of the\nmentoring list as a whole to receive answers from any volunteer who is\navailable.\n\nThe community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those\nfor the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can\njoin) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.\n\nFor now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -\nbut if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and\nfrom the main list, we can change that permission as needed.\n\nI look forward to us learning from each other on that list!\n\n - Emily\n"},{"id":"386869","messageId":"20191122203127.GA5292@dcvr","threadId":"52268","inReplyTo":"20191114194708.GD60198@google.com","subject":"Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com","fromName":"Eric Wong","fromEmail":"e@80x24.org","sentAt":"2019-11-22T20:31:27Z","receivedAt":"2019-11-22T20:31:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"e@80x24.org","avatar":null},"body":"Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:\n> The community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those\n> for the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can\n> join) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.\n\nIt would be better to promote anonymous or pseudonymous posts\nif beginners aren't comfortable...\n\n> For now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -\n> but if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and\n> from the main list, we can change that permission as needed.\n\n...because anybody can expose the archives, anyways.  And right now,\nmessages aren't visible to generic search engines, either; so fewer\npeople can get helped...\n"},{"id":"386878","messageId":"20191122231921.GB101478@google.com","threadId":"52268","inReplyTo":"20191122203127.GA5292@dcvr","subject":"Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com","fromName":"Emily Shaffer","fromEmail":"emilyshaffer@google.com","sentAt":"2019-11-22T23:19:21Z","receivedAt":"2019-11-22T23:19:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nasamuffin@google.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1606826?v=4"},"body":"On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:31:27PM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n> Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:\n> > The community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those\n> > for the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can\n> > join) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.\n> \n> It would be better to promote anonymous or pseudonymous posts\n> if beginners aren't comfortable...\n> \n> > For now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -\n> > but if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and\n> > from the main list, we can change that permission as needed.\n> \n> ...because anybody can expose the archives, anyways.  And right now,\n> messages aren't visible to generic search engines, either; so fewer\n> people can get helped...\n\nHm, this is a little circular, right? Part of the rationale for keeping\nviewing limited was \"that way it's not visible to generic search\nengines\". And now your rationale for opening it is \"it's not visible to\ngeneric search engines\".\n\nIt sounds like based on\nhttps://lore.kernel.org/git/xmqqy2wczliu.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com/\nthough, that we maybe do want to open posting to all, for the sake of CC\nback and forth between the main list and the mentoring list.\n\n\nWith all that said.... we have yet to actually see a post on the list.\nSo I feel more inclined to wait and let the right ergonomics for that\nlist present themselves with time and use. :)\n\n - Emily\n"},{"id":"386880","messageId":"20191123001749.GA12923@dcvr","threadId":"52268","inReplyTo":"20191122231921.GB101478@google.com","subject":"Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com","fromName":"Eric Wong","fromEmail":"e@80x24.org","sentAt":"2019-11-23T00:17:49Z","receivedAt":"2019-11-23T00:17:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"e@80x24.org","avatar":null},"body":"Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:\n> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:31:27PM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n> > Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:\n> > > The community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those\n> > > for the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can\n> > > join) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.\n> > \n> > It would be better to promote anonymous or pseudonymous posts\n> > if beginners aren't comfortable...\n> > \n> > > For now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -\n> > > but if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and\n> > > from the main list, we can change that permission as needed.\n> > \n> > ...because anybody can expose the archives, anyways.  And right now,\n> > messages aren't visible to generic search engines, either; so fewer\n> > people can get helped...\n> \n> Hm, this is a little circular, right? Part of the rationale for keeping\n> viewing limited was \"that way it's not visible to generic search\n> engines\".\n\nSorry if I wasn't clear.  My points were:\n\n1) limiting visibility harmful to helpfulness\n\n2) trusting \"members\" to keep potentially embarrasing posts\n   away from the public eye is unrealistic.  Let posters\n   maintain anonymity or pseudonymity for themselves.\n"},{"id":"386993","messageId":"20191125142351.GE494@sigill.intra.peff.net","threadId":"52268","inReplyTo":"20191123001749.GA12923@dcvr","subject":"Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2019-11-25T14:23:51Z","receivedAt":"2019-11-25T14:23:53Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 12:17:49AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n\n> > Hm, this is a little circular, right? Part of the rationale for keeping\n> > viewing limited was \"that way it's not visible to generic search\n> > engines\".\n> \n> Sorry if I wasn't clear.  My points were:\n> \n> 1) limiting visibility harmful to helpfulness\n> \n> 2) trusting \"members\" to keep potentially embarrasing posts\n>    away from the public eye is unrealistic.  Let posters\n>    maintain anonymity or pseudonymity for themselves.\n\nI think it's trying to find a tradeoff, though. The point isn't to guard\nsensitive information. It's to have a less intimidating forum for people\nto converse in. Even though anybody from the public _could_ join and\nread them, keeping them out of most web searches may be more\ncomfortable. Likewise, members of the group _could_ exfiltrate all of\nthe posts and show them publicly. But in practice that's unlikely.\n\nNote that I'm guessing at what others would find more comfortable or\nless intimidating. Obviously I'm quite happy to speak my mind all over\npublic mailing lists. ;) But the point is to give a forum for people who\naren't. I think this setup matches the mentoring list in other orgs.\nE.g. Outreachy itself, though there I think you have to actually be an\nintern to see the posts. We could moderate membership to the mentor list\nbut it seems like a hassle for little gain.\n\n-Peff\n"}]}