{"thread":{"id":"49987","subject":"Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","startedAt":"2018-12-09T18:42:24Z","lastAt":"2018-12-12T07:59:04Z","messageCount":8,"participants":["Jon Forrest","Jeff King","Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason","Konstantin Khomoutov","Robert P. J. Day"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"364869","messageId":"pujni2$ulb$1@blaine.gmane.org","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Jon Forrest","fromEmail":"nobozo@gmail.com","sentAt":"2018-12-09T18:42:12Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-09T18:42:24Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nobozo@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/37c6a7b57f29b3f35c6a9016537907c52f15bbf98575617dc046bcec6bf06372?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Several years ago I released what I called Pro Git Reedited. This was an\nattempt to tighten up the text of the excellent Pro Git book written by\nScott Chacon. Since then, Scott and Ben Straub released the second\nedition of Pro Git so once again I'm releasing a reedited version of\nwhat they wrote. I hope you enjoy it.\n\nThe PDF of my version is at\n\nhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/18wGebSU0dyYU1L_bfyoDQtZRF1Vo1H3p/view?usp=sharing\n\nIf there's enough interest, I'll try to put up an HTML version of\nthe book.\n\nCordially,\nJon Forrest\n\n"},{"id":"365061","messageId":"20181211105007.GD7233@sigill.intra.peff.net","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":"pujni2$ulb$1@blaine.gmane.org","subject":"Re: Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2018-12-11T10:50:07Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-11T10:50:36Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Sun, Dec 09, 2018 at 10:42:12AM -0800, Jon Forrest wrote:\n\n> Several years ago I released what I called Pro Git Reedited. This was an\n> attempt to tighten up the text of the excellent Pro Git book written by\n> Scott Chacon. Since then, Scott and Ben Straub released the second\n> edition of Pro Git so once again I'm releasing a reedited version of\n> what they wrote. I hope you enjoy it.\n> \n> The PDF of my version is at\n> \n> https://drive.google.com/file/d/18wGebSU0dyYU1L_bfyoDQtZRF1Vo1H3p/view?usp=sharing\n> \n> If there's enough interest, I'll try to put up an HTML version of\n> the book.\n\nThe content at https://git-scm.com/book is pulled regularly from\nhttps://github.com/progit/progit2, which has collected a number of fixes\n(as well as translations) since the 2nd edition was released.\n\nHave you considered sending some of your edits there? It sounds like\nthey may be too large to just dump as a big PR, but it might be possible\nto grow together over time.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"365080","messageId":"a1941151-9453-5830-7175-7c8e27425274@gmail.com","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":"20181211105007.GD7233@sigill.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Jon Forrest","fromEmail":"nobozo@gmail.com","sentAt":"2018-12-11T14:39:30Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-11T14:39:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nobozo@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/37c6a7b57f29b3f35c6a9016537907c52f15bbf98575617dc046bcec6bf06372?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"\n\nOn 12/11/2018 2:50 AM, Jeff King wrote:\n\n> The content at https://git-scm.com/book is pulled regularly from\n> https://github.com/progit/progit2, which has collected a number of fixes\n> (as well as translations) since the 2nd edition was released.\n> \n> Have you considered sending some of your edits there? It sounds like\n> they may be too large to just dump as a big PR, but it might be possible\n> to grow together over time.\n\nFair question. I had tried doing this for the first edition of Pro Git,\nbut the person who was in charge of accepting changes wasn't a\nnative speaker of English. As a result I had a hard time\nconvincing him that my changes were necessary. Many of my changes\nwere very subjective, and not technical, so this was hard to overcome.\nThings might have been different if I were correcting technical errors\nor adding significant sections to the book. But, since I'm not a Git\nexpert, that's not what I was attempting to do.\n\nThings have changed for the better for the second edition of Pro Git.\nIts management seems much more willing to accept the kind of changes\nI make, as shown by their reaction to the excellent work by Robert\nDay. Even so, given the amount of changes I've made, it's unlikely\nthat my changes would be accepted.\n\nI do track the changes to the second edition of Pro Git and\nincorporate that ones that still apply into my version.\n\nBut I hear what you're saying. Maybe if and when the third edition\nof Pro Git comes out I'll try what you suggest.\n\nCordially,\nJon Forrest\n"},{"id":"365086","messageId":"CACBZZX6g7TaxNHN=3ApV4wV91ZuVV8eoemMurS=WMt4mG8Q67g@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":"a1941151-9453-5830-7175-7c8e27425274@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason","fromEmail":"avarab@gmail.com","sentAt":"2018-12-11T15:13:42Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-11T15:13:55Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"avarab@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45301?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 4:02 PM Jon Forrest wrote:\n> On 12/11/2018 2:50 AM, Jeff King wrote:\n>\n> > The content at https://git-scm.com/book is pulled regularly from\n> > https://github.com/progit/progit2, which has collected a number of fixes\n> > (as well as translations) since the 2nd edition was released.\n> >\n> > Have you considered sending some of your edits there? It sounds like\n> > they may be too large to just dump as a big PR, but it might be possible\n> > to grow together over time.\n>\n> Fair question. I had tried doing this for the first edition of Pro Git,\n> but the person who was in charge of accepting changes wasn't a\n> native speaker of English. As a result I had a hard time\n> convincing him that my changes were necessary. Many of my changes\n> were very subjective, and not technical, so this was hard to overcome.\n> Things might have been different if I were correcting technical errors\n> or adding significant sections to the book. But, since I'm not a Git\n> expert, that's not what I was attempting to do.\n>\n> Things have changed for the better for the second edition of Pro Git.\n> Its management seems much more willing to accept the kind of changes\n> I make, as shown by their reaction to the excellent work by Robert\n> Day. Even so, given the amount of changes I've made, it's unlikely\n> that my changes would be accepted.\n>\n> I do track the changes to the second edition of Pro Git and\n> incorporate that ones that still apply into my version.\n>\n> But I hear what you're saying. Maybe if and when the third edition\n> of Pro Git comes out I'll try what you suggest.\n\nAs someone who's read neither your edit or the original edition, but I\ndid read your version of the intro, it would be very helpful to me /\nothers if there was some diff between the two so we could make up our\nown mind about which one to read, and to get an idea of what sorts of\nwording changes etc. these are.\n"},{"id":"365102","messageId":"55838db9-4f08-b77e-bc95-5c7dce4024d2@gmail.com","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":"CACBZZX6g7TaxNHN=3ApV4wV91ZuVV8eoemMurS=WMt4mG8Q67g@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Jon Forrest","fromEmail":"nobozo@gmail.com","sentAt":"2018-12-11T17:00:31Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-11T17:00:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nobozo@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/37c6a7b57f29b3f35c6a9016537907c52f15bbf98575617dc046bcec6bf06372?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"\n\nOn 12/11/2018 7:13 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:\n\n> As someone who's read neither your edit or the original edition, but I\n> did read your version of the intro, it would be very helpful to me /\n> others if there was some diff between the two so we could make up our\n> own mind about which one to read, and to get an idea of what sorts of\n> wording changes etc. these are.\n\nThat would indeed be nice. The best I can do is to suggest that if\nyou're satisfied with the regular Pro Git then my version won't\nhelp you. On the other hand, if you find regular Pro Git puzzling,\nespecially in the early chapters, I suggest giving my version a try.\n\nSince I'm giving away my version, you have nothing to loose except\nperhaps a little time. If I'm right, and my version is clearer, then\nyou could benefit from it.\n\n(You're a git expert so I doubt you need my version).\n\nCordially,\nJon Forrest\n\n"},{"id":"365103","messageId":"20181211171553.4mnd66ngqvcxb6me@tigra","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":"55838db9-4f08-b77e-bc95-5c7dce4024d2@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Konstantin Khomoutov","fromEmail":"kostix@bswap.ru","sentAt":"2018-12-11T17:15:54Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-11T17:16:03Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"kostix@bswap.ru","avatar":null},"body":"On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 09:00:31AM -0800, Jon Forrest wrote:\n\n> > As someone who's read neither your edit or the original edition, but I\n> > did read your version of the intro, it would be very helpful to me /\n> > others if there was some diff between the two so we could make up our\n> > own mind about which one to read, and to get an idea of what sorts of\n> > wording changes etc. these are.\n> \n> That would indeed be nice. The best I can do is to suggest that if\n> you're satisfied with the regular Pro Git then my version won't\n> help you. On the other hand, if you find regular Pro Git puzzling,\n> especially in the early chapters, I suggest giving my version a try.\n> \n> Since I'm giving away my version, you have nothing to loose except\n> perhaps a little time. If I'm right, and my version is clearer, then\n> you could benefit from it.\n> \n> (You're a git expert so I doubt you need my version).\n\nI think an uspoken issue here is that while you're indeed free to \"fork\"\nthis book and maintain your fork, having two books with almost identical\ncontents may not be the best option as it simply may be outright\nconfusing for those at whom your fork is actually targeted.\n\nThat's just my opinion, or — better — feeling I gathered from the\ndiscussion, but to me these friendly nudges to maybe consider\nreevaluating your work for inclusion into the original's book proper\nlook exactly as hints at that having such a fork may not be the best\nof all options.\n\nAnother problem with the fork is its visibility.\nThe go-to Git website links to the original work, and I assure you\nnovice users do not casually read this list — let alone search through\nits archives for the mentions of an alternative book's version.\n\n"},{"id":"365104","messageId":"972839aa-c1de-2ec2-b047-44e5df65bd13@gmail.com","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":"20181211171553.4mnd66ngqvcxb6me@tigra","subject":"Re: Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Jon Forrest","fromEmail":"nobozo@gmail.com","sentAt":"2018-12-11T17:24:39Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-11T17:24:44Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nobozo@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/37c6a7b57f29b3f35c6a9016537907c52f15bbf98575617dc046bcec6bf06372?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"\n\nOn 12/11/2018 9:15 AM, Konstantin Khomoutov wrote:\n\n> I think an uspoken issue here is that while you're indeed free to \"fork\"\n> this book and maintain your fork, having two books with almost identical\n> contents may not be the best option as it simply may be outright\n> confusing for those at whom your fork is actually targeted.\n\nThe coverage is almost identical, but the content is different.\n\n> That's just my opinion, or — better — feeling I gathered from the\n> discussion, but to me these friendly nudges to maybe consider\n> reevaluating your work for inclusion into the original's book proper\n> look exactly as hints at that having such a fork may not be the best\n> of all options.\n\nYou might be right, but the reception I got when working on the\nfirst edition led me to make the fork. In retrospect, I probably\nshould have tried again with the new crew who did the second\nedition. As I said, I will try again if there's a third edition.\n\n> Another problem with the fork is its visibility.\n> The go-to Git website links to the original work, and I assure you\n> novice users do not casually read this list — let alone search through\n> its archives for the mentions of an alternative book's version.\n\nI agree, and I don't know what to do about that.\n\nJon\n\n"},{"id":"365160","messageId":"alpine.LFD.2.21.1812120254430.19520@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"49987","inReplyTo":"a1941151-9453-5830-7175-7c8e27425274@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Announcing Pro Git Second Edition Reedited","fromName":"Robert P. J. Day","fromEmail":"rpjday@crashcourse.ca","sentAt":"2018-12-12T07:58:46Z","receivedAt":"2018-12-12T07:59:04Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"rpjday@crashcourse.ca","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/226084077?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, 11 Dec 2018, Jon Forrest wrote:\n\n> On 12/11/2018 2:50 AM, Jeff King wrote:\n>\n> > The content at https://git-scm.com/book is pulled regularly from\n> > https://github.com/progit/progit2, which has collected a number of\n> > fixes (as well as translations) since the 2nd edition was\n> > released.\n> >\n> > Have you considered sending some of your edits there? It sounds\n> > like they may be too large to just dump as a big PR, but it might\n> > be possible to grow together over time.\n>\n> Fair question. I had tried doing this for the first edition of Pro\n> Git, but the person who was in charge of accepting changes wasn't a\n> native speaker of English. As a result I had a hard time convincing\n> him that my changes were necessary. Many of my changes were very\n> subjective, and not technical, so this was hard to overcome. Things\n> might have been different if I were correcting technical errors or\n> adding significant sections to the book. But, since I'm not a Git\n> expert, that's not what I was attempting to do.\n>\n> Things have changed for the better for the second edition of Pro\n> Git. Its management seems much more willing to accept the kind of\n> changes I make, as shown by their reaction to the excellent work by\n> Robert Day.\n\n thank ya, thank ya very much. :-) most of my submissions to that\nbook have been cosmetic -- punctuation, font changes, clarifications\n-- and others are to keep up with changes to git. that said, i\ndefinitely have ideas for more wide-ranging changes if i ever get the\ntime; i think some section re-ordering could be helpful but that's all\nin due time.\n\n i do what i can.\n\nrday\n\n-- \n\n========================================================================\nRobert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA\n http://crashcourse.ca/dokuwiki\n\nTwitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday\nLinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday\n========================================================================\n"}]}