{"thread":{"id":"49755","subject":"if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why","startedAt":"2018-11-04T17:48:30Z","lastAt":"2019-05-01T18:42:55Z","messageCount":5,"participants":["_g e r r y _ _l o w r y _","Philip Oakley","David Aguilar","Jakub Narebski","Martin Langhoff"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"362407","messageId":"1b8a01d47466$9775c130$c6614390$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com","threadId":"49755","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why","fromName":"_g e r r y _ _l o w r y _","fromEmail":"gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com","sentAt":"2018-11-04T17:48:25Z","receivedAt":"2018-11-04T17:48:30Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/9f7b6849ba620e0ef711ba0eeb0e5cca130fe1843f838d5393f490c3495b7bc9?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"PREAMBLE [START] - please feel free to skip this first section\n\nForgive me for asking this question on a mailing list.\n\nstackoverflow would probably kill such a question before the bits were fully saved to a server drive.\n\nLet me explain why i am asking and why i am not being a troll.\n\n[a] i'm \"old school\", i.e., > 50% on my way to being age 72 [born 1947]\n\n[b] when i started programming in 1967, most of my work input was via punched cards\n\n[c] punching my own cards was cool\n\n[d] IBM System/360 mainframe assembler was cool and patching previously punched card encoded machine code output was a fun risky but\nat times necessary challenge.\n\n[e] using command windows and coding batch files for Gary Kildall's CP/M and the evil empire's PC/MS-DOS was how i accomplished many\ntasks for early non-GUI environments (i still continue this practice even in Windows 10 (a.k.a. please don't update my PC O/S behind\nmy back again versions of MS Windows)).\n\n[f] my introduction to Git was via a command line based awesome video that has disappeared (i asked this community about that in a\nprevious thread).\n\nBOTTOM LINE:  virtually 100% of my Git use has been via Git Bash command line [probably downloaded from https://git-scm.com/]\n\nFor me, and i suspect even for most people who live with GUI platforms, [a well kept secret fact] using the keyboard is faster than\nusing the mouse [especially when one's fingers are already over one's keyboard-example, closing one or more \"windows\" via Alt+F4.\n\nAlso for me, i am happy to change some code and/or write some new code, Alt+Tab to Git Bash frequently, ADD/COMMIT, then Alt+Tab\nback to whatever IDE i'm using [mostly LINQPad and vs2017]; i know that's quite a bit schizophrenic of me-command line Git but GUI\nIDE.\n\nPREAMBLE [END]\n----------------------------------------\n\nQUESTION:  if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why\n\ni have been asked to look at GUI versions of Git for Windows.\n\nhttps://git-scm.com/download/gui/windows currently lists 22 options.\n\nif i had more time left in my life and the option, because of my own nature, i'd likely download and evaluate all 22 - Mr.T would\npity the fool that i often can be.\n\nCAUTION:  i am not looking for anyone to disparage other Git Windows GUIs.\n\nLet me break down the question into 4 parts:\n\n[1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?\n[1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?\n\n[2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?\n[2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?\n\n\nif you are uncomfortable replying to git@vger.kernel.org please feel free to reply directly to my e-mail address.\n\ni look forward to hearing from members of this Git community.\n\nThank you for reading and thank you for your valuable time.\n\ngerry (lowry)-wasaga beach-ontario-canada\ngerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com\n\n"},{"id":"362485","messageId":"2f1855a2-58c4-d7d6-cd62-41ce877f11b6@talktalk.net","threadId":"49755","inReplyTo":"1b8a01d47466$9775c130$c6614390$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com","subject":"Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why","fromName":"Philip Oakley","fromEmail":"philipoakley@talktalk.net","sentAt":"2018-11-05T12:26:08Z","receivedAt":"2018-11-05T12:26:13Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"philipoakley@talktalk.net","avatar":null},"body":"Hi Gerry,\nI'll give my view, as someone approaching retirement, but who worked as \nan Engineer in a mainly Windows environment.\n\nOn 04/11/2018 17:48, _g e r r y _ _l o w r y _ wrote:\n> PREAMBLE [START] - please feel free to skip this first section\n> \n> Forgive me for asking this question on a mailing list.\n> \n> stackoverflow would probably kill such a question before the bits were fully saved to a server drive.\n> \n> Let me explain why i am asking and why i am not being a troll.\n> \n> [a] i'm \"old school\", i.e., > 50% on my way to being age 72 [born 1947]\n\n8 years behind..\n> \n> [b] when i started programming in 1967, most of my work input was via punched cards\n'69, at school, post/compile/run/wait for post; 1 week\n  (Maths club)\n\n> \n> [c] punching my own cards was cool\nPin punching individual chads ;-)\n\n> \n> [d] IBM System/360 mainframe assembler was cool and patching previously punched card encoded machine code output was a fun risky but\n> at times necessary challenge.\nEventually the 370 at university.\n\n> \n> [e] using command windows and coding batch files for Gary Kildall's CP/M and the evil empire's PC/MS-DOS was how i accomplished many\n> tasks for early non-GUI environments (i still continue this practice even in Windows 10 (a.k.a. please don't update my PC O/S behind\n> my back again versions of MS Windows)).\nEngineer in electronics; software was an interlinked part of electronics \nback then....\n> \n> [f] my introduction to Git was via a command line based awesome video that has disappeared (i asked this community about that in a\n> previous thread).\nDiscovered in 2011 via 'Code News' article - Spotted immediately that it \nsolved the engineers version control issue because it 'distributed' the \ncontrol. I've tried a few of the Gui's.\n\n> \n> BOTTOM LINE:  virtually 100% of my Git use has been via Git Bash command line [probably downloaded from https://git-scm.com/]\n> \n> For me, and i suspect even for most people who live with GUI platforms, [a well kept secret fact] using the keyboard is faster than\n> using the mouse [especially when one's fingers are already over one's keyboard-example, closing one or more \"windows\" via Alt+F4.\n> \n> Also for me, i am happy to change some code and/or write some new code, Alt+Tab to Git Bash frequently, ADD/COMMIT, then Alt+Tab\n> back to whatever IDE i'm using [mostly LINQPad and vs2017]; i know that's quite a bit schizophrenic of me-command line Git but GUI\n> IDE.\n> \n> PREAMBLE [END]\n> ----------------------------------------\n> \n> QUESTION:  if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why\n> \n> i have been asked to look at GUI versions of Git for Windows.\nI presume that this is for a client who isn't sure what they want \nhttp://www.abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com/home.html\n\n> \n> https://git-scm.com/download/gui/windows currently lists 22 options.\nThat's nearly as bad as choosing a Linux distro ;-)\n\n> \n> if i had more time left in my life and the option, because of my own nature, i'd likely download and evaluate all 22 - Mr.T would\n> pity the fool that i often can be.\n> \n> CAUTION:  i am not looking for anyone to disparage other Git Windows GUIs.\n> \n> Let me break down the question into 4 parts:\n> \n> [1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?\nI use the three parts provided as part of regular Git and Git for \nWindows, that is git-gui, gitk and git cli in a terminal (mintty)\n\n> [1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?\nI have been in a general Windows environment for decades. The Gui format \nwith single buttons/drop downs that do one thing well, without finger \ntrouble side effects, is good in such environments. One cannot be master \nof everything.\n\nThe cli is good for specialists and special actions, especially \nprecision surgery. The key is to avoid the \"the surgery was a success \nbut the patient died\" results.\n> \n> [2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?\ngit-gui and gitk are now the only two I use.\n\n> [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?\nMany of the other Gui's hide the power of Git and its new abstraction of \nno longer actually being about \"Control\" (by 'management'). Now it is \nabout veracity. If you have the right object ID (sha1/sha256) you have \nan identical original [there are no 'copies', all Mona Lisas with the \nhash are the same]. Management can choose which hash to accept upstream.\n\nMost other Gui's try to hide behind the old school Master-copy view \npoint that was developed in the 19th century for drawing office control. \nIf you damaged the master drawing the ability to make things and do \nbusiness was lost. Protecting the master drawing was everything. They \nwere traced before they went to the blue print machine. Changes were \nbatched up before the master could be touched (that risk again).\n\nToo may Gui's (and their Managements!) still try to work the old way, \nloosing all the potential benefits. They are still hammer wielders \nlooking for nails, and only finding screws to smash.\n\nI've heard reasonable things about SmartGit but that costs money so I \nhaven't tried it. I tried TortoiseGit and GitExtensions, but gave up on \nthem as they would (to me) hide the real operations behind old concepts.\n\nThe one are that could be improved is having manuals for the two guis, \nand a better explanation, with practical examples, for the gitk viewer, \nwhich has far more power than I have fully delved into.\n\nUltimately it is a management problem. As a systems engineer, what needs \nto be researched is the mind set - weltanschauung of the client, their \nmanagement style and its operations.\n\nSee the recent discussion with Nicolas Mailhot \nhttps://public-inbox.org/git/1290947539.4254.1508496039812.JavaMail.zimbra@laposte.net/ \non the release management issue\n> \n> \n> if you are uncomfortable replying to git@vger.kernel.org please feel free to reply directly to my e-mail address.\n> \n> i look forward to hearing from members of this Git community.\n> \n> Thank you for reading and thank you for your valuable time.\n> \n> gerry (lowry)-wasaga beach-ontario-canada\n> gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com\n> \n\nEducation is the answer, especially for the lower quartile.\nKruger & Dunning. \"Unskilled and unaware of it\" 1999.\n\n-- \nPhilip\n"},{"id":"374612","messageId":"20190428093321.GB21060@gmail.com","threadId":"49755","inReplyTo":"2f1855a2-58c4-d7d6-cd62-41ce877f11b6@talktalk.net","subject":"Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why","fromName":"David Aguilar","fromEmail":"davvid@gmail.com","sentAt":"2019-04-28T09:33:21Z","receivedAt":"2019-04-28T09:33:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"davvid@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/13196?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Nov 05, 2018 at 12:26:08PM +0000, Philip Oakley wrote:\n> > [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?\n> Many of the other Gui's hide the power of Git and its new abstraction of no\n> longer actually being about \"Control\" (by 'management'). Now it is about\n> veracity. If you have the right object ID (sha1/sha256) you have an\n> identical original [there are no 'copies', all Mona Lisas with the hash are\n> the same]. Management can choose which hash to accept upstream.\n> \n> Most other Gui's try to hide behind the old school Master-copy view point\n> that was developed in the 19th century for drawing office control. If you\n> damaged the master drawing the ability to make things and do business was\n> lost. Protecting the master drawing was everything. They were traced before\n> they went to the blue print machine. Changes were batched up before the\n> master could be touched (that risk again).\n> \n> Too may Gui's (and their Managements!) still try to work the old way,\n> loosing all the potential benefits. They are still hammer wielders looking\n> for nails, and only finding screws to smash.\n\nHello,\n\nHere are a few reasons why you should try Git Cola:\n\n- Git Cola does not hide the power of Git.\n\n- Git Cola extends Git in the UNIX spirit by providing a convenient\n  frontend to common Git commands and operations.\n\n- Git Cola's Diff editor is focused around the Git-centric idea of\n  creating small commits through partial staging.\n\n- It has a keyboard-centric interface with vim-style navigation hotkeys.\n\n- Git Cola is Free software and has the same license as Git.\n\n- Python + Qt is easy to hack\n\nhttps://github.com/git-cola/git-cola\n\nhttps://git-cola.github.io/downloads.html\n-- \nDavid\n"},{"id":"374771","messageId":"8636lym4cl.fsf@gmail.com","threadId":"49755","inReplyTo":"1b8a01d47466$9775c130$c6614390$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com","subject":"Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2019-05-01T18:12:10Z","receivedAt":"2019-05-01T18:12:15Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"\"_g e r r y _ _l o w r y _\"\n<gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com> writes:\n\n> ----------------------------------------\n>\n> QUESTION:  if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why\n>\n> i have been asked to look at GUI versions of Git for Windows.\n>\n> https://git-scm.com/download/gui/windows currently lists 22 options.\n>\n> if i had more time left in my life and the option, because of my own\n> nature, i'd likely download and evaluate all 22 - Mr.T would\n> pity the fool that i often can be.\n>\n> CAUTION:  i am not looking for anyone to disparage other Git Windows GUIs.\n>\n> Let me break down the question into 4 parts:\n>\n> [1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?\n> [1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?\n>\n> [2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?\n> [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?\n\nI use both Git GUI and Git command line - but for different things.  I\nuse integration with editor / IDE (in my case GNU Emacs and Magit, plus\ngit-gutter+) to commit changes, amend commits, sometimes for push and\npull; and for having constant reminder which files changed and/or which\nlines changed.\n\nI use Git command line for more advanced stuff, mostly because I am used\nto it.  Things like interactive rebase, fetch, pull, push, stash and\nunstash, undoing changes via reflog, submodules stuff, etc.\n\nI found that with Git GUI (to be more exact git-gui from Git) it is\neasier to do incremental add / incremental commit from GUI.  If you use\n`git blame`, I highly recommend `git gui blame`.\n\nHope that helps,\n--\nJakub Narębski\n"},{"id":"374777","messageId":"CACPiFCL0UZv6WBMq3ZdrGE6bWNGLye22xEWUadneB8gzTAOzsA@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"49755","inReplyTo":"1b8a01d47466$9775c130$c6614390$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com","subject":"Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why","fromName":"Martin Langhoff","fromEmail":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","sentAt":"2019-05-01T18:42:42Z","receivedAt":"2019-05-01T18:42:55Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/1e3f311b6c4c15836501901ca58f8c0b0667246488084ba524d8bc9867e22fd9?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 2:34 PM _g e r r y _ _l o w r y _\n<gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com> wrote:\n>\n> [1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?\n\n\ngit cli\n\n>\n> [1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?\n\n\nI'm a cli guy, I know git well, and it gives me all the power.\n\nHowever, understanding history/branch structure is not something you\ncan do well with the cli tools (git log has an ascii art branch mode\nthat works for some situations).\n\nFor a number of reasons, I often find myself looking at new codebases,\nand wondering how they got to where they are. Visualizing and querying\nhistory is a killer feature for me.\n\n> [2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?\n\n\ngitk ; if not available, whatever I can install quickly that (a) I can\njust start in a checkout and (b) has a good branch history view. In\nother words, the more they resemble gitk the more I like them :-)\n\n> [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?\n\n\nBest for navigating history, complex branch/merge patterns. Handy\nsearch including pickaxe.\n\nIt doesn't support the \"normal\" workflows. It's just an outstanding\ncomplement for the cli tools.\n\ncheers,\n\n\nm\n"}]}