{"thread":{"id":"4954","subject":"GIT user survey","startedAt":"2006-07-23T08:23:36Z","lastAt":"2006-08-12T12:24:43Z","messageCount":20,"participants":["Paolo Ciarrocchi","Jakub Narebski","Wolfgang Denk","Jörg W Mittag","Pavel Roskin","Junio C Hamano","Martin Langhoff","Johannes Schindelin","Noel Grandin","Alex Riesen"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"24012","messageId":"4d8e3fd30607230123m459aa1cle2ab8c1c1dd0fcd2@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"GIT user survey","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-07-23T08:23:36Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-23T08:23:36Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hi all,\nWe would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the GIT\nversion control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\nusing GIT, how and why.\n\nThe results will be published to the git wiki and discussed on the git\nmailing list.\n\nWe'll close the survey in two weeks starting from today, 23rd of July.\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple\nquestionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your\nneeds, what you like of git and of course what you don't like of it.\n\nThe survey can be found here:\nhttp://www.survey.net.nz/survey.php?b5659bb2a599d0649871f56b59819c50\n\n\nKind regards,\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com\nhttp://picasaweb.google.com/paolo.ciarrocchi\n"},{"id":"24013","messageId":"4d8e3fd30607230145i2480c20fxb06127c8b0187c98@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30607230123m459aa1cle2ab8c1c1dd0fcd2@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-07-23T08:45:35Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-23T08:45:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 7/23/06, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n[...]\n>\n> The survey can be found here:\n> http://www.survey.net.nz/survey.php?b5659bb2a599d0649871f56b59819c50\n\nIf you know people using GIT please forward this message to them,\ncurrently is has been sent to the following projects:\n- u-boot\n- wine\n- cairo\n- xmms2\n-xcb\n\nregards,\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com\nhttp://picasaweb.google.com/paolo.ciarrocchi\n"},{"id":"24017","messageId":"e9vsv9$iuo$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30607230145i2480c20fxb06127c8b0187c98@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-07-23T13:18:57Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-23T13:18:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n\n> If you know people using GIT please forward this message to them,\n> currently is has been sent to the following projects:\n> - u-boot\n> - wine\n> - cairo\n> - xmms2\n> - xcb\n\nCheck out http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitProjects\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"24067","messageId":"4d8e3fd30607240621x2ad866d7g30c1bad87401881b@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"e9vsv9$iuo$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-07-24T13:21:16Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-24T13:21:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 7/23/06, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n>\n> > If you know people using GIT please forward this message to them,\n> > currently is has been sent to the following projects:\n> > - u-boot\n> > - wine\n> > - cairo\n> > - xmms2\n> > - xcb\n>\n> Check out http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitProjects\n\nThanks. I sent out a few emails to other projects.\n\nregards,\n\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com\nhttp://picasaweb.google.com/paolo.ciarrocchi\n"},{"id":"24069","messageId":"20060724194716.1B4EB352640@atlas.denx.de","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30607230145i2480c20fxb06127c8b0187c98@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Wolfgang Denk","fromEmail":"wd@denx.de","sentAt":"2006-07-24T19:47:16Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-24T19:47:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"wd@denx.de","avatar":null},"body":"In message <4d8e3fd30607230145i2480c20fxb06127c8b0187c98@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:\n>\n> If you know people using GIT please forward this message to them,\n> currently is has been sent to the following projects:\n> - u-boot\n\n\nHas it? When? I haven't seen anything.\n\nBest regards,\n\nWolfgang Denk\n\n-- \nSoftware Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux\nPhone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd@denx.de\nThe thing is, as you progress in the Craft, you'll learn there is\nanother rule... When you break rules, break 'em good and hard.\n - Terry Pratchett, _Wyrd Sisters_\n"},{"id":"24070","messageId":"4d8e3fd30607241250k3b1a7768yb27653750ae921b3@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"20060724194716.1B4EB352640@atlas.denx.de","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-07-24T19:50:19Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-24T19:50:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 7/24/06, Wolfgang Denk wrote:\n> In message <4d8e3fd30607230145i2480c20fxb06127c8b0187c98@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:\n> >\n> > If you know people using GIT please forward this message to them,\n> > currently is has been sent to the following projects:\n> > - u-boot\n>\n>\n> Has it? When? I haven't seen anything.\n>\n\nI don't follow the project but I know that NOW it's using GIT, see the\nhomepage http://u-boot.sourceforge.net/\n\nregards,\n\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com\nhttp://picasaweb.google.com/paolo.ciarrocchi\n"},{"id":"24071","messageId":"20060724201110.5B14635363E@atlas.denx.de","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30607241250k3b1a7768yb27653750ae921b3@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Wolfgang Denk","fromEmail":"wd@denx.de","sentAt":"2006-07-24T20:11:10Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-24T20:11:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"wd@denx.de","avatar":null},"body":"In message <4d8e3fd30607241250k3b1a7768yb27653750ae921b3@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:\n>\n> > > If you know people using GIT please forward this message to them,\n> > > currently is has been sent to the following projects:\n> > > - u-boot\n> >\n> > Has it? When? I haven't seen anything.\n> \n> I don't follow the project but I know that NOW it's using GIT, see the\n> homepage http://u-boot.sourceforge.net/\n\nOf course we use git; that's not the question.\n\nI understood your posting such that you have sent a \"GIT user survey\"\nto the U-Boot mailing list: you wrote: \"is [typo for `it' ? -\nreferring to Subject:, i. e. `GIT user survey'?] has been sent to the\nfollowing projects...\"\n\nI wanted to make clear that nothing has been sent to the U-Boot\nproject. At least I haven't seen anything, nor can I find anything in\nthe archives.\n\nBest regards,\n\nWolfgang Denk\n\n-- \nSoftware Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux\nPhone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd@denx.de\n\"I've seen it. It's rubbish.\" - Marvin the Paranoid Android\n"},{"id":"24072","messageId":"4d8e3fd30607241315g4b7e577cpb5eb34f9c8c3880f@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"20060724201110.5B14635363E@atlas.denx.de","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-07-24T20:15:48Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-24T20:15:48Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 7/24/06, Wolfgang Denk wrote:\n> In message <4d8e3fd30607241250k3b1a7768yb27653750ae921b3@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:\n> >\n> > > > If you know people using GIT please forward this message to them,\n> > > > currently is has been sent to the following projects:\n> > > > - u-boot\n> > >\n> > > Has it? When? I haven't seen anything.\n> >\n> > I don't follow the project but I know that NOW it's using GIT, see the\n> > homepage http://u-boot.sourceforge.net/\n>\n> Of course we use git; that's not the question.\n\nDoh :-)\n\n> I understood your posting such that you have sent a \"GIT user survey\"\n> to the U-Boot mailing list: you wrote: \"is [typo for `it' ? -\n> referring to Subject:, i. e. `GIT user survey'?] has been sent to the\n> following projects...\"\n\nYep, that was a typo.\nAnd yes, I sent an email to u-boot-users@lists.sourceforge.net\nIs that the correct email address?\n\n> I wanted to make clear that nothing has been sent to the U-Boot\n> project. At least I haven't seen anything, nor can I find anything in\n> the archives.\n\nCan you please FW my original email to the list?\nThanks.\n\nregards,\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com\nhttp://picasaweb.google.com/paolo.ciarrocchi\n"},{"id":"24366","messageId":"4d8e3fd30607300248m36b4038dv1fcd1f3716503905@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30607230123m459aa1cle2ab8c1c1dd0fcd2@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-07-30T09:48:16Z","receivedAt":"2006-07-30T09:48:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 7/23/06, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n> Hi all,\n> We would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the GIT\n> version control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\n> using GIT, how and why.\n>\n> The results will be published to the git wiki and discussed on the git\n> mailing list.\n>\n> We'll close the survey in two weeks starting from today, 23rd of July.\n>\n> Please devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple\n> questionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your\n> needs, what you like of git and of course what you don't like of it.\n>\n> The survey can be found here:\n> http://www.survey.net.nz/survey.php?b5659bb2a599d0649871f56b59819c50\n\nThanks a lot to all the people that already filled the questionnaire.\nWe received 89 full filled questionnaires but we can do better, if you\ndidn't fill it please do it before the 6th of August.\n\nThanks.\n\nregards,\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com\nhttp://picasaweb.google.com/paolo.ciarrocchi\n"},{"id":"24476","messageId":"1prv3rw6ldo9s$.dlg@jwmittag.my-fqdn.de","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30607300248m36b4038dv1fcd1f3716503905@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Why I love GIT but use Subversion (was: GIT user survey)","fromName":"Jörg W Mittag","fromEmail":"joerg.mittag@web.de","sentAt":"2006-08-01T01:45:52Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T01:45:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"joerg.mittag@web.de","avatar":null},"body":"Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n> On 7/23/06, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n>> We would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the GIT\n>> version control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\n>> using GIT, how and why.\n> Thanks a lot to all the people that already filled the questionnaire.\n> We received 89 full filled questionnaires but we can do better, if you\n> didn't fill it please do it before the 6th of August.\n\nOkay, I thought a bit about filling out that survey, but I couldn't\nbecause it didn't really fit my needs. After all, it's a Git *user*\nsurvey and I'm only a *wannabe* user.\n\nSo, why am I only a wannabe Git user (and a frustrated Subversion\nuser) even though I like Git very much? Well, there's a couple of\nreasons (beware: this rant should have really been a blog post, but I\ndon't have a blog ...; also, being a rant, this post may contain\noversimplification, overgeneralization and overexaggeration. Please,\ndon't feel offended and also keep in mind that I'm not a native\nspeaker.).\n\nThe most important reason why I'm not using Git is probably that I'm\nthe wrong kind of user: Git is a source code(1) management system for\nLinux(2) developers(3) and I am\n\n (1) not managing source code, \n (2) not using Linux and \n (3) not a developer.\n \nPlease note that there's nothing actually wrong with that---you can't\ndrive screws with a hammer and you can't make coffee with a\nscrewdriver but that doesn't mean that the hammer or the screwdriver\nare buggy, it just means you have either the wrong problem or the\nwrong tool.\n\nSo, I don't really know whether the fact that Git doesn't support my\noperating environment and my workflow is (a) a problem with Git being\ntoo specialized or (b) a problem with me choosing the wrong tool.\nThis is probably actually the most important question I have, because\nif the answer is (a) I just need to wait some more until Git matures,\nbut if the answer is (b) I need to forget about Git and start looking\nfor another tool.\n\nIn my opinion, version control needs to integrate and really blend\ninto the operating environment and the workflow people use, because\notherwise, if it *doesn't* integrate but forces them to change their\noperating environment, their workflow or their habits, people will get\nlazy. I know I would. And being lazy about version control is even\nworse than not having any version control at all, just as with backups\nit gives you a false sense of security.\n\nIn my case the operating environment is the Windows Explorer or\nEclipse and my workflow is basically dragging and dropping files with\nthe mouse. I can do just that with TortoiseSVN and Subclipse without\nhaving to change the way I normally work. With Git I would constantly\nneed to switch back and forth between Explorer or Eclipse and Cygwin.\nThat is, if I actually get Git compiled and up and running *at all*.\n(Is there any unwritten rule in Git development that says that new\nfeatures are only accepted if they add a new dependency on a new\nprogramming language? Currently Git is implemented in C, POSIX sh,\nPerl, Python, Tcl/Tk and C++ (if you include QGit) and I've already\nseen some Ruby code posted to the mailing list.)\n\nDon't get me wrong: Git is very nice. Its similarity to a Unix\nfilesystem and the similarity of its UI to popular Unix command line\nutilities means that it actually integrates perfectly with the Unix\nshell, which also means that it integrates perfectly with the workflow\nof people who mainly work in a Unix shell. I'm sometimes using Git in\nLinux where I mainly work from the command line and it's absolutely\namazing! You have everything you would expect from your regular\nenvironment: cat, diff, ls, tar, grep, mv, rm and even fsck!\n\nBut that's not the only operating environment, and it's certainly not\nthe one most widely used. In order to be universally usable, Git\nneeds to also integrate with the Windows Explorer, MacOS Finder,\nKonqueror, Nautilus, Eclipse and Visual Studio (among others). It\nneeds to integrate with project management tools like Trac or Collaboa\nand in order to do that it probably needs complete high-quality native\nlanguage bindings for Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, PHP, ...\n\nOkay, let's answer two questions from the survey:\n\n| Q20. What would you most like to see improved about GIT? (features,\n| bugs, plugins, documentation, ...)\n\nThe most pressing need for me would be a native Windows port. Where\n\"native\" means:\n\n - an installer package, \n - integration with the Windows Explorer, \n - handling of different line-ending encodings and \n - addressing the fact that things like SSH clients, diff, patch, \n merge, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk, Bash and so on are usually not part \n of a standard Windows installation and are also notoriously \n difficult to install.\n\nNumber 2 would probably be providing the same level of integration for\nEclipse.\n\n| Q21. If you want to see GIT more widely used, what do you think we\n| could do to make this happen?\n\nWhat I think is most lacking is the ecosystem *around* Git, which is\nactually not very surprising, considering that Git is still fairly\nyoung compared to e.g. CVS and Subversion. With \"ecosystem\" I mean\nthings like public repository hosting (currently it's mostly CVS\nand/or Subversion and some Arch), integration in IDEs (e.g. Eclipse,\nVisual Studio), project management software (e.g. Trac, Collaboa) and\nso on.\n\nThe general theme is probably: make Git more seamless for more types\nof users on more operating systems.\n\nI currently use Subversion. I hate Subversion. I constanly hit the\nlimitations of the centralized model, and I hit them *very hard* and\n*very often*. I would *love* to migrate away as soon as possible.\nThere's only two reasons why I use Subversion: because I can install\nit with three mouse clicks and because I can use it with three mouse\nclicks.\n\nPlease, make those reasons go away.\n\nThank you for bearing with me through this long rant.\n\njwm\n\nPS: I am well aware of the fact that Git is free software and that I\ncould fix all those issues myself. However, the truth is, I can't.\nI'm stupid. I'm not a programmer. So, please don't take this as a\ndemand or a request, merely a humble suggestion by a humble wannabe\nuser, whom you are free to ignore.\n"},{"id":"24484","messageId":"1154404217.32333.7.camel@dv","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"1prv3rw6ldo9s$.dlg@jwmittag.my-fqdn.de","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion (was: GIT user survey)","fromName":"Pavel Roskin","fromEmail":"proski@gnu.org","sentAt":"2006-08-01T03:50:17Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T03:50:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"proski@gnu.org","avatar":null},"body":"Hello, Jörg!\n\nOn Tue, 2006-08-01 at 03:45 +0200, Jörg W Mittag wrote:\n\n> In my case the operating environment is the Windows Explorer or\n> Eclipse and my workflow is basically dragging and dropping files with\n> the mouse. I can do just that with TortoiseSVN and Subclipse without\n> having to change the way I normally work.\n\nI understand you don't really care about changesets (i.e. committing\nseveral files at once and recording it as a single operation). In that\ncase, would git-cvsserver satisfy your needs? Would it make any\ndifference if there were a similar Subversion emulator? Would DAV\nsupport make any difference?\n\n> With Git I would constantly\n> need to switch back and forth between Explorer or Eclipse and Cygwin.\n\nWith git-cvsserver, you can run it and forget about it. The rest would\nbe handled through the CVS interface.\n\n-- \nRegards,\nPavel Roskin\n"},{"id":"24486","messageId":"7virld2hjt.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"1prv3rw6ldo9s$.dlg@jwmittag.my-fqdn.de","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"junkio@cox.net","sentAt":"2006-08-01T04:42:14Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T04:42:14Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jörg W Mittag writes:\n\n> Please, make those reasons go away.\n\nThese are all reasonable wishes.\n\nThe core level of git (which is written in C) is designed to be\nusable as a building block for platform native IDE. The primary\naudience of git so far has been POSIX envirnoment, and the\ncommand line interface we have in core git was one acceptable\nform of \"platform native IDE\". I know that is not a usual form\nof IDE in some other world (most notably in MS circles).\n\nI do not speak for others on this mailing list, but given the\nbackground of how git came about into existence, which pretty\nmuch defines the majority of the habitants of this mailing list,\nI doubt there are many people who know git well enough and have\nenough experience and motivation to implement \"platform native\nIDE\" for MS platform. Certainly I cannot imagine Linus and/or\nmyself doing Windows GUI programming to make git integrate into\nMS environment seamlessly. You probably are a lot more familiar\nand qualified to implement such than myself.\n\nSo please step forward, enlist MS comrades, and start hacking,\nif you want MS native git. If you need help in understanding\nthe core git data structures, algorithms, and functions, I may\nwell be able to help you. If you have difficulties interfacing\nwith Visual Studio on the other hand that is not something I can\nhelp you with, although some others on the list might.\n\n> Thank you for bearing with me through this long rant.\n\nThank *you* for sharing these thoughts.\n"},{"id":"24491","messageId":"46a038f90607312239y50fbd2afl1dbd56b721fb8c19@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"7virld2hjt.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion","fromName":"Martin Langhoff","fromEmail":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-08-01T05:39:48Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T05:39:48Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/1e3f311b6c4c15836501901ca58f8c0b0667246488084ba524d8bc9867e22fd9?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On 8/1/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> So please step forward, enlist MS comrades, and start hacking,\n\nI don't know how mature the libification of git is, in terms of\nworking correctly on Windows without a full cygwin environemnt (but\nperhaps with the cygwin dll). If it builds and works reasonably well\njust linking to the dll, perhaps we should enlist the\nTortoiseCVS/TortoiseSVN hackers to replace the SVN bindings with GIT\nbindings.\n\nOf course, that'd give us a simplified UI, but it'd get the ball rolling.\n\ncheers,\n\n\nmartin\n"},{"id":"24492","messageId":"eamuuh$cus$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"1prv3rw6ldo9s$.dlg@jwmittag.my-fqdn.de","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-08-01T07:13:41Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T07:13:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Jörg W Mittag wrote:\n\n> Number 2 would probably be providing the same level of integration for\n> Eclipse.\n\nGit Eclipse plugin is in the works, currently in very early alpha stages:\n http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/InterfacesFrontendsAndTools#Eclipse\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"24505","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.63.0608011201030.17230@wbgn013.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"1prv3rw6ldo9s$.dlg@jwmittag.my-fqdn.de","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion (was: GIT user survey)","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2006-08-01T10:13:44Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T10:13:44Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Jörg W Mittag wrote:\n\n> beware: this rant should have really been a blog post, but I don't have \n> a blog ...;\n\nThis is the most polite rant I saw in a long time (including my own rants \n;-).\n\n> (a) a problem with Git being too specialized or (b) a problem with me \n> choosing the wrong tool.\n\nDefinitely (a). But I might add \"still\".\n\n> (Is there any unwritten rule in Git development that says that new \n> features are only accepted if they add a new dependency on a new \n> programming language? Currently Git is implemented in C, POSIX sh, \n> Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk and C++ (if you include QGit) and I've already seen \n> some Ruby code posted to the mailing list.)\n\nFunny, this is also _my_ pet peeve. Although for different reasons: I do \nnot so much mind the dependency as the inconvenience with having different \nprogramming styles, and often having to build the basic library functions \nin every of these languages. Also, some people do not speak Perl or Bash \nor Python\n\n> The most pressing need for me would be a native Windows port. Where\n> \"native\" means:\n> \n> - an installer package, \n> - integration with the Windows Explorer, \n> - handling of different line-ending encodings and \n> - addressing the fact that things like SSH clients, diff, patch, \n> merge, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk, Bash and so on are usually not part \n> of a standard Windows installation and are also notoriously \n> difficult to install.\n\nLet's see: the installer should not be a problem. (Several free options \ncome to mind).\n\nIntegration with the Windows Explorer is a bit tricky: first, most of the \nLinux cracks have not worked with Windows APIs, and there is also the \nproblem that you need to convert the file names from/to braindead MS \nwhy-not-put-a-colon-into-absolute-filenames names.\n\nYou do not need handling of different line-ending encodings _as long_ as \nyou have the same throughout your project.\n\nAnd for the notoriously difficult part: why not just bundle a cygwin \nenvironment, stripped-down to fit just the needs of git?\n\nOf course, it would be a bit nicer if we had a MinGW32 port, and in fact, \nI played with it a little. But the sad truth is: Windows lacks so many of \nthe good features of POSIX. It is not a project for just one afternoon to \nmake it run (although I admit that I have it running a \"git-log -p\" \nsuccessfully!).\n\n> PS: I am well aware of the fact that Git is free software and that I\n> could fix all those issues myself. However, the truth is, I can't.\n> I'm stupid. I'm not a programmer. So, please don't take this as a\n> demand or a request, merely a humble suggestion by a humble wannabe\n> user, whom you are free to ignore.\n\nHey, you may be not a programmer, but what you just did was very valuable: \nwrite about the problems you have with git.\n\nAnd you _can_ do more: like Junio said, ask people you know who work on \nWindows to help...\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"24507","messageId":"46a038f90608010359w76819870g4dab0911410727b1@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.63.0608011201030.17230@wbgn013.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion (was: GIT user survey)","fromName":"Martin Langhoff","fromEmail":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-08-01T10:59:28Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T10:59:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/1e3f311b6c4c15836501901ca58f8c0b0667246488084ba524d8bc9867e22fd9?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On 8/1/06, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> And you _can_ do more: like Junio said, ask people you know who work on\n> Windows to help...\n\nIndeed, I think these guys need to hear from Jorg, see the \"Mailing list\" link:\n\n http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/\n\n\n;-)\n\nI know it's cheeky, but if you write a similarly polite rant/wishlist\nto the nice TortoiseSVN developers and they are interested, we can, as\nJunio said, help them out with GIT specifics.\n\ncheers,\n\n\nmartin\n"},{"id":"24509","messageId":"44CF45BF.3050108@peralex.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"46a038f90608010359w76819870g4dab0911410727b1@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion","fromName":"Noel Grandin","fromEmail":"noel@peralex.com","sentAt":"2006-08-01T12:14:55Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T12:14:55Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"noel@peralex.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hi\n\nThey would probably be quite willing to have someone fork TortoiseSVN\nand make a TortoiseGIT, which would save a lot of the hassle with\ncreating an installer, finding the WindowsExplorer hook APIs, etc, etc,\nfrom scratch.\n\nEspecially since TortoiseSVN started by forking TortoiseCVS.\n\nRegards,\n Noel Grandin\n\nMartin Langhoff wrote:\n> On 8/1/06, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>> And you _can_ do more: like Junio said, ask people you know who work on\n>> Windows to help...\n>\n> Indeed, I think these guys need to hear from Jorg, see the \"Mailing\n> list\" link:\n>\n> http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/\n>\n>\n> ;-)\n>\n> I know it's cheeky, but if you write a similarly polite rant/wishlist\n> to the nice TortoiseSVN developers and they are interested, we can, as\n> Junio said, help them out with GIT specifics.\n>\n> cheers,\n>\n>\n> martin\n> -\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n>\n\n\nNOTICE: This email, and the contents thereof, \nare subject to the standard Peralex email disclaimer, which may \nbe found at: http://www.peralex.com/disclaimer.html\n\nIf you cannot access the disclaimer through the URL attached \n and you wish to receive a copy thereof please send \n an email to email@peralex.com\n"},{"id":"24510","messageId":"81b0412b0608010546u700bcd70g61686a6440dd540c@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.63.0608011201030.17230@wbgn013.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de","subject":"Re: Why I love GIT but use Subversion (was: GIT user survey)","fromName":"Alex Riesen","fromEmail":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-08-01T12:46:36Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-01T12:46:36Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/324101?v=4"},"body":"On 8/1/06, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> And for the notoriously difficult part: why not just bundle a cygwin\n> environment, stripped-down to fit just the needs of git?\n\nBecause it's hard to get it not to conflict with existing or following\ncygwin installtion.\n"},{"id":"25132","messageId":"ebi6og$rh0$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30607230123m459aa1cle2ab8c1c1dd0fcd2@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-08-11T15:12:45Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-11T15:12:45Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n\n> We'll close the survey in two weeks starting from today, 23rd of July.\n\nWill you be closing survey and publishing results (e.g. on GitWiki) soon,\nor would you wait for more answers?\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"25161","messageId":"4d8e3fd30608120524s6dc147b1qaa55fa7691b5588a@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4954","inReplyTo":"ebi6og$rh0$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: GIT user survey","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-08-12T12:24:43Z","receivedAt":"2006-08-12T12:24:43Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 8/11/06, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n>\n> > We'll close the survey in two weeks starting from today, 23rd of July.\n>\n> Will you be closing survey and publishing results (e.g. on GitWiki) soon,\n> or would you wait for more answers?\n>\n\nOk, I closed the survey.\n115 responses, a lot more then what I expected :)\n\nBut I have a big problem, my personal workstation died so I cannot\nwork on the raw results.\nI uploaded the txt file here:\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com/gitsurvey.txt.zip\n\nAnybody want to work on the responses?\n\nThanks.\n\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com\nhttp://picasaweb.google.com/paolo.ciarrocchi\n"}]}