{"thread":{"id":"48428","subject":"main url for linking to git source?","startedAt":"2018-05-07T06:37:18Z","lastAt":"2018-05-08T12:55:17Z","messageCount":10,"participants":["Jeff King","Johannes Schindelin","Junio C Hamano","Konstantin Ryabitsev","Stefan Beller","brian m. carlson","Kaartic Sivaraam"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"346847","messageId":"20180507063713.GA28961@sigill.intra.peff.net","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2018-05-07T06:37:14Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-07T06:37:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"The git-scm.com site currently links to https://github.com/git/git for\nthe (non-tarball) source code. Somebody raised the question[1] of\nwhether it should point to kernel.org instead. Do people find one\ninterface more or less pleasing than the other? Do we want to prefer\nkernel.org as more \"official\" or less commercial?\n\nI could see arguments both ways, so I thought I'd take a straw poll of\nwhat people on the list think.\n\n-Peff\n\n[1] https://github.com/git/git-scm.com/pull/1202\n"},{"id":"346862","messageId":"nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.1805070731580.77@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"20180507063713.GA28961@sigill.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2018-05-07T11:38:06Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-07T11:38:34Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi Peff,\n\nOn Mon, 7 May 2018, Jeff King wrote:\n\n> The git-scm.com site currently links to https://github.com/git/git for\n> the (non-tarball) source code. Somebody raised the question[1] of\n> whether it should point to kernel.org instead.\n>\n> Do people find one interface more or less pleasing than the other? Do we\n> want to prefer kernel.org as more \"official\" or less commercial?\n\nI don't really care about \"official\" vs \"commercial\", as kernel.org is\nalso run by a business, so it is all \"commercial\" to me.\n\nPersonally, I prefer the GitHub interface. A *lot*. Why?\n\n- it is faster\n\n- it is prettier\n\n- you can fork easily\n\n- it also has the Continuous Integration, well, integrated\n\n- it is a lot easier to link to individual commits/files/lines\n\n- the links are *a lot* nicer\n\n- you can provide a /compare/A...B link to a specific, possibly\n dynamic commit range\n\nI do not have anything against listing kernel.org, *in addition*. But\nkernel.org is just simply so much more limited, and less pretty, so I\nreally think that the PR is misguided and would do more harm than good.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"346865","messageId":"xmqqsh73pslj.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"20180507063713.GA28961@sigill.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2018-05-07T12:18:00Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-07T12:18:06Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jeff King writes:\n\n> The git-scm.com site currently links to https://github.com/git/git for\n> the (non-tarball) source code. Somebody raised the question[1] of\n> whether it should point to kernel.org instead. Do people find one\n> interface more or less pleasing than the other? Do we want to prefer\n> kernel.org as more \"official\" or less commercial?\n>\n> I could see arguments both ways, so I thought I'd take a straw poll of\n> what people on the list think.\n>\n> -Peff\n>\n> [1] https://github.com/git/git-scm.com/pull/1202\n\nI personally do not think 'the' main url for linking to git source\ndoes not exist and depends on what the URL is going to be used for.\n\nIn the context of the cited PR#1202, for example, the first hunk is\nabout a URL that appears in a sentence like this (paraphrased):\n\n \"... If you want to build from the source and fix bugs yourself,\n use this URL to clone and try the next branch; the issue you\n have may have already been solved ...\".\n\nThe URL is *clearly* about feeding it to \"git clone\" so prettyness\nor familiarlity of the Web UI at that URL does not matter an iota.\nUnless one of k.org or github.com has far superiour bandwidth and\nlatency over the other, I do not think it matters which one is\nrecommended in the documentation.\n\nBut perhaps in another context in the same document (I didn't\nclosely look at the rest of PR#1202), a URL may be involved in\nviewing a patch in Gitweb/cgit interface. In such a context, Web\nUI's familiarity would matter a lot more.\n"},{"id":"346868","messageId":"4d2b13ae-7f13-4f9c-2baa-f3e04fa9526a@linuxfoundation.org","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.1805070731580.77@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Konstantin Ryabitsev","fromEmail":"konstantin@linuxfoundation.org","sentAt":"2018-05-07T14:20:50Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-07T14:20:58Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"konstantin@linuxfoundation.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/7cb8827c6de56e1bd2dea16508c6708aa43feed3bf3813bcdacecdf96ceadd79?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On 05/07/18 07:38, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>> The git-scm.com site currently links to https://github.com/git/git for\n>> the (non-tarball) source code. Somebody raised the question[1] of\n>> whether it should point to kernel.org instead.\n>>\n>> Do people find one interface more or less pleasing than the other? Do we\n>> want to prefer kernel.org as more \"official\" or less commercial?\n> \n> I don't really care about \"official\" vs \"commercial\", as kernel.org is\n> also run by a business, so it is all \"commercial\" to me.\n\nKernel.org is a registered US non-profit organization, managed by a\nnon-profit industry consortium (The Linux Foundation). The entire stack\nbehind kernel.org is free software, excepting any firmware blobs on the\nphysical hardware.\n\nI'm not trying to influence anyone's opinion of where the links should\nbe pointing at, but it's important to point out that kernel.org and\nGitHub serve different purposes:\n\n- kernel.org provides free-as-in-liberty archive hosting on a platform\nthat is not locked into any vendor.\n\n- github.com provides an integrated development infrastructure that is\nfully closed-source, excepting the protocols.\n\nBest,\n-- \nKonstantin Ryabitsev\nDirector, IT Infrastructure Security\nThe Linux Foundation\n\n"},{"id":"346900","messageId":"CAGZ79kZVdiEOO+b_Ygrfw1D9uV1T5TYBS580zPaZeYoMRfNuUQ@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"20180507063713.GA28961@sigill.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Stefan Beller","fromEmail":"sbeller@google.com","sentAt":"2018-05-07T18:15:46Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-07T18:15:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"stefanbeller@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/455868?v=4"},"body":"Hi Jeff,\n\nOn Sun, May 6, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Jeff King wrote:\n> The git-scm.com site currently links to https://github.com/git/git for\n> the (non-tarball) source code. Somebody raised the question[1] of\n> whether it should point to kernel.org instead. Do people find one\n> interface more or less pleasing than the other? Do we want to prefer\n> kernel.org as more \"official\" or less commercial?\n>\n> I could see arguments both ways, so I thought I'd take a straw poll of\n> what people on the list think.\n\nThat PR is changing quite a few places, so in classic Git community\nfashion, I advise to break it up into more patches. ;)\n\nJunios reply below focuses on the URL passed to git-clone, which\nis only found at https://git-scm.com/downloads (?)\n\nThere I would try to mirror Junios list of \"public repositories\"\nhttps://git-blame.blogspot.com/p/git-public-repositories.html\nwithout officially endorsing one over another.\n\nFor those links that link to web pages, I am ok with any of the\nhosting providers, maybe even taking the one with the prettiest\nweb page. Maybe we want to reword those sections to rely\nmore on indirection, e.g. \"get the source[link to the source page],\ncheckout the next branch\", without the quick web link to a web page\nshowing the 'next' tree. Any of the pages with the 'next' tree\ndo not really help for the purpose of spotting which development\nis currently happening. Maybe a \"log --merges\" would be better.\nSomething like https://kernel.googlesource.com/pub/scm/git/git/+log/next\n(Not that I am endorsing this link over others. I just happen to know\nthat this comes close to what I propose having there)\n\nKernel.org might feel a bit more official than the others because\nLinus started it there? And given that it is a non profit, I feel\nbetter to link to them over any other commercial entity.\n\nHope that helps,\nStefan\n"},{"id":"346946","messageId":"20180508015130.GN953644@genre.crustytoothpaste.net","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"CAGZ79kZVdiEOO+b_Ygrfw1D9uV1T5TYBS580zPaZeYoMRfNuUQ@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"brian m. carlson","fromEmail":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","sentAt":"2018-05-08T01:51:30Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-08T01:51:39Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/497054?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 11:15:46AM -0700, Stefan Beller wrote:\n> There I would try to mirror Junios list of \"public repositories\"\n> https://git-blame.blogspot.com/p/git-public-repositories.html\n> without officially endorsing one over another.\n\nI think I would also prefer a list of available repositories over a\nhard-coded choice. It may be that some places (say, Australia) have\nbetter bandwidth to one over the other, and users will be able to have a\nbetter experience with certain mirrors.\n\nWhile I'm sympathetic to the idea of referring to kernel.org because\nit's open-source and non-profit, users outside of North America are\nlikely to have a less stellar experience with its mirrors, since they're\nall in North America.\n\nI would suggest that whatever option we choose, we only specify HTTPS or\nSSH (i.e., encrypted) protocols. Encryption is cheap, and we have lots\nof options meeting that criterion.\n-- \nbrian m. carlson: Houston, Texas, US\nOpenPGP: https://keybase.io/bk2204\n"},{"id":"346952","messageId":"20180508024658.GA4204@puremoods","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"20180508015130.GN953644@genre.crustytoothpaste.net","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Konstantin Ryabitsev","fromEmail":"konstantin@linuxfoundation.org","sentAt":"2018-05-08T02:46:58Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-08T02:47:05Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"konstantin@linuxfoundation.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/7cb8827c6de56e1bd2dea16508c6708aa43feed3bf3813bcdacecdf96ceadd79?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 01:51:30AM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n> On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 11:15:46AM -0700, Stefan Beller wrote:\n> > There I would try to mirror Junios list of \"public repositories\"\n> > https://git-blame.blogspot.com/p/git-public-repositories.html\n> > without officially endorsing one over another.\n> \n> I think I would also prefer a list of available repositories over a\n> hard-coded choice. It may be that some places (say, Australia) have\n> better bandwidth to one over the other, and users will be able to have a\n> better experience with certain mirrors.\n> \n> While I'm sympathetic to the idea of referring to kernel.org because\n> it's open-source and non-profit, users outside of North America are\n> likely to have a less stellar experience with its mirrors, since they're\n> all in North America.\n\nI'm a bit worried that I'll come across as some kind of annoying pedant,\nbut git.kernel.org is actually 6 different systems available in US,\nEurope, Hong Kong, and Australia. :)\n\nWe use geodns to map users to the nearest server (I know, GeoDNS is not\nthe best, but it's what we have for free).\n\n-K\n\n"},{"id":"346955","messageId":"xmqqvabyn7yx.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"20180508024658.GA4204@puremoods","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2018-05-08T03:26:30Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-08T03:26:36Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Konstantin Ryabitsev writes:\n\n> On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 01:51:30AM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n>>\n>> I think I would also prefer a list of available repositories over a\n>> hard-coded choice. It may be that some places (say, Australia) have\n>> better bandwidth to one over the other, and users will be able to have a\n>> better experience with certain mirrors.\n>> \n>> While I'm sympathetic to the idea of referring to kernel.org because\n>> it's open-source and non-profit, users outside of North America are\n>> likely to have a less stellar experience with its mirrors, since they're\n>> all in North America.\n>\n> I'm a bit worried that I'll come across as some kind of annoying pedant,\n> but git.kernel.org is actually 6 different systems available in US,\n> Europe, Hong Kong, and Australia. :)\n>\n> We use geodns to map users to the nearest server (I know, GeoDNS is not\n> the best, but it's what we have for free).\n\nThanks for an update---it is nice to make those who are discussing\nthis topic to be aware of these facts. Very much appreciated.\n"},{"id":"346970","messageId":"03bd84bd-dda9-882f-ad3c-861792b54ce9@gmail.com","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"CAGZ79kZVdiEOO+b_Ygrfw1D9uV1T5TYBS580zPaZeYoMRfNuUQ@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"Kaartic Sivaraam","fromEmail":"kaartic.sivaraam@gmail.com","sentAt":"2018-05-08T06:43:19Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-08T06:43:31Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"kaartic.sivaraam@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/12448084?v=4"},"body":"On Monday 07 May 2018 11:45 PM, Stefan Beller wrote:\n>> I could see arguments both ways, so I thought I'd take a straw poll of\n>> what people on the list think.\n> \n> Junios reply below focuses on the URL passed to git-clone, which\n> is only found at https://git-scm.com/downloads (?)\n> \n> There I would try to mirror Junios list of \"public repositories\"\n> https://git-blame.blogspot.com/p/git-public-repositories.html\n> without officially endorsing one over another.\n>\nFWIW, I also seem to support this suggestion as it's not opinionated.\n\n\n> For those links that link to web pages, I am ok with any of the\n> hosting providers, maybe even taking the one with the prettiest\n> web page. Maybe we want to reword those sections to rely\n> more on indirection, e.g. \"get the source[link to the source page],\n> checkout the next branch\", without the quick web link to a web page\n> showing the 'next' tree.\n\nSeems to be a nice suggestion to avoid the \"main/official\" url issue.\n\nTo add a little more, it might be better replace the \"Source code\" link\nwith a link to Junio's list of public repositories stated above. Also,\nit might be better to rename the link to \"Public repositories containing\nthe source\".\n\n\n-- \nSivaraam\n\nQUOTE:\n\n“The most valuable person on any team is the person who makes everyone\nelse on the team more valuable, not the person who knows the most.”\n\n - Joel Spolsky\n\n\nSivaraam?\n\nYou possibly might have noticed that my signature recently changed from\n'Kaartic' to 'Sivaraam' both of which are parts of my name. I find the\nnew signature to be better for several reasons one of which is that the\nformer signature has a lot of ambiguities in the place I live as it is a\ncommon name (NOTE: it's not a common spelling, just a common name). So,\nI switched signatures before it's too late.\n\nThat said, I won't mind you calling me 'Kaartic' if you like it [of\ncourse ;-)]. You can always call me using either of the names.\n\n\nKIND NOTE TO THE NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER:\n\nAs I'm not a native English speaker myself, there might be mistaeks in\nmy usage of English. I apologise for any mistakes that I make.\n\nIt would be \"helpful\" if you take the time to point out the mistakes.\n\nIt would be \"super helpful\" if you could provide suggestions about how\nto correct those mistakes.\n\nThanks in advance!\n\n"},{"id":"346979","messageId":"20180508125508.GA275488@genre.crustytoothpaste.net","threadId":"48428","inReplyTo":"20180508024658.GA4204@puremoods","subject":"Re: main url for linking to git source?","fromName":"brian m. carlson","fromEmail":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","sentAt":"2018-05-08T12:55:08Z","receivedAt":"2018-05-08T12:55:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sandals@crustytoothpaste.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/497054?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 10:46:58PM -0400, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:\n> On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 01:51:30AM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:\n> > I think I would also prefer a list of available repositories over a\n> > hard-coded choice. It may be that some places (say, Australia) have\n> > better bandwidth to one over the other, and users will be able to have a\n> > better experience with certain mirrors.\n> > \n> > While I'm sympathetic to the idea of referring to kernel.org because\n> > it's open-source and non-profit, users outside of North America are\n> > likely to have a less stellar experience with its mirrors, since they're\n> > all in North America.\n> \n> I'm a bit worried that I'll come across as some kind of annoying pedant,\n> but git.kernel.org is actually 6 different systems available in US,\n> Europe, Hong Kong, and Australia. :)\n\nThat is very interesting to know. Perhaps it would be useful to update\nhttps://www.kernel.org/category/about.html?\n\nI did specifically look to see where various mirrors' servers were\nlocated, although I didn't actually test for kernel.org since you\nspecified on the website.\n-- \nbrian m. carlson: Houston, Texas, US\nOpenPGP: https://keybase.io/bk2204\n"}]}