{"thread":{"id":"46339","subject":"Call to developers with access to Windows XP","startedAt":"2017-07-09T20:12:49Z","lastAt":"2017-07-12T21:29:42Z","messageCount":2,"participants":["Johannes Schindelin","Philip Oakley"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"324043","messageId":"alpine.DEB.2.21.1.1707092143560.84669@virtualbox","threadId":"46339","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Call to developers with access to Windows XP","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2017-07-09T20:12:41Z","receivedAt":"2017-07-09T20:12:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi all,\n\nit has been a while since Windows XP support has been dropped from Git for\nWindows (v2.10.0 was the last version to support it), mainly due to the\ncode changes inherited from Cygwin's code base, which discontinued\nsupporting Windows XP after version 2.5.2 (because it became way too\ncumbersome).\n\nNow, as some of you recall, I was not all too happy about having to drop\nthe Windows XP support, but I saw no alternative seeing as it would have\ntaken me a good chunk of time (which I have to spend instead on keeping\nGit for Windows working on Windows versions that are *not* past their\nend-of-life) to reinstate XP support, and it would have taken even more\ntime to keep it that way, backporting changes all the time from\nquickly-advancing Open Source projects moving away from XP support at a\nfast pace.\n\nAll the same, I tried to make sure that developers out there who are eager\nto have Windows XP support know that I am fully willing to assist them in\ngetting it back. Assisting, not as in \"just whine enough and eventually I\nwill cave in and solve your problem for you\", but as in \"you are eager,\nbut do not know where to start? I can tell you all about it, and if you\nget stuck, I'll help you get unstuck\".\n\nIt has been over 9 months now since the first non-XP version of Git for\nWindows has been released, and all I heard was that some developers found\nworkarounds that work for themselves only, without even trying to share\nanything helpful for other developers in a similar plight.\n\nThis is not enough.\n\nWe are now finally at a road fork where I need to know, soon, whether\nthere is anybody out there who is willing to step up to trying to get\nWindows XP support back into Git for Windows.\n\nSide note: At this point, I am a bit sick and tired of hearing so many\nopinions that *I* should work on that. So that won't fly. Just don't. If\nyou feel the need to whine how unfair I am even while you are unwilling to\nlift so much as a finger to reinstate Windows XP support, just write it on\na piece of paper and flush it down somewhere. Don't write that email,\nbecause all it would ensure is that I personally would rip out all\nremaining XP support from Git's own source code, just to rid myself of\nthis kind of \"helpful\" advice. It's not worth your time, and certainly not\nmine, either.\n\nBack to the subject.\n\nThe reason for this call is a Pull Request I would like to merge:\nhttps://github.com/git-for-windows/git/pull/1214. It simplifies Git for\nWindows' pthreads emulation rather dramatically, but due to my\n(misguided?) request, it tries to keep Windows XP support as a\ncompile-time option.\n\nThe thing is, this code will bit-rot if there is nobody willing to spend\neven a little bit of time on Windows XP support in Git for Windows.\nMeaning: it will add to my maintenance burden, which is not okay.\n\nSo my current preference would be for me to go back to the contributor of\nPR #1214 with a profound apology for making that suggestion and wasting\ntheir time unnecessarily. And then just drop the XP support of our pthread\nemulation.\n\nHowever, I am not quite certain that I have really exhausted all my\noptions for reaching active developers who are interested enough in\nGit for Windows' reinstating Windows XP support that they are willing to\nput in the effort to make it so.\n\nDid I reach you, active developers? This is my final attempt to do so...\n\nCiao,\nJohannes\n\n"},{"id":"324308","messageId":"2A653C761F9D4326800F8223FE316913@PhilipOakley","threadId":"46339","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.2.21.1.1707092143560.84669@virtualbox","subject":"Re: [git-for-windows] Call to developers with access to Windows XP","fromName":"Philip Oakley","fromEmail":"philipoakley@iee.org","sentAt":"2017-07-12T21:29:32Z","receivedAt":"2017-07-12T21:29:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"philipoakley@iee.email","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/914343?v=4"},"body":"From: \"Johannes Schindelin\" <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>\n> Hi all,\n>\n> it has been a while since Windows XP support has been dropped from Git for\n> Windows (v2.10.0 was the last version to support it), mainly due to the\n> code changes inherited from Cygwin's code base, which discontinued\n> supporting Windows XP after version 2.5.2 (because it became way too\n> cumbersome).\n>\n> Now, as some of you recall, I was not all too happy about having to drop\n> the Windows XP support,\n\nThank you for having the concern. It is appreciated, at least by me.\n\n> but I saw no alternative seeing as it would have\n> taken me a good chunk of time (which I have to spend instead on keeping\n> Git for Windows working on Windows versions that are *not* past their\n> end-of-life) to reinstate XP support, and it would have taken even more\n> time to keep it that way, backporting changes all the time from\n> quickly-advancing Open Source projects moving away from XP support at a\n> fast pace.\n>\n> All the same, I tried to make sure that developers out there who are eager\n> to have Windows XP support know that I am fully willing to assist them in\n> getting it back. Assisting, not as in \"just whine enough and eventually I\n> will cave in and solve your problem for you\", but as in \"you are eager,\n> but do not know where to start? I can tell you all about it, and if you\n> get stuck, I'll help you get unstuck\".\n>\n> It has been over 9 months now since the first non-XP version of Git for\n> Windows has been released, and all I heard was that some developers found\n> workarounds that work for themselves only, without even trying to share\n> anything helpful for other developers in a similar plight.\n>\n> This is not enough.\n>\n> We are now finally at a road fork where I need to know, soon, whether\n> there is anybody out there who is willing to step up to trying to get\n> Windows XP support back into Git for Windows.\n\nI suapect that the XP 'community' split into two parts (and not of equal \nsize).\n\nThe first is those who for many and various local reasons are still on/using \nan XP machine, and would like to keep up with the Git community and the \ncoding of Git. This requires only a minimal level of competence in the deep \nOS stuff of Windows compatability. I'm pretty much in this camp.\n\nThe second sort are those who for other reasons are involved and \nknowledgeable in the deep OS XP compatibility stuff, haven't progressed to \nthe newer and even more improved (as they say) versions of Win 7,8,10 and \nstill want to have the latest Git compiling on XP (as opposed to simply \naccepting the last XP compative GfW version). It looks like that group is \nthin on the ground, leaving too many issues to fall though the cracks.\n\n>\n> Side note: At this point, I am a bit sick and tired of hearing so many\n> opinions that *I* should work on that. So that won't fly. Just don't. If\n> you feel the need to whine how unfair I am even while you are unwilling to\n> lift so much as a finger to reinstate Windows XP support, just write it on\n> a piece of paper and flush it down somewhere. Don't write that email,\n> because all it would ensure is that I personally would rip out all\n> remaining XP support from Git's own source code, just to rid myself of\n> this kind of \"helpful\" advice. It's not worth your time, and certainly not\n> mine, either.\n>\n> Back to the subject.\n>\n> The reason for this call is a Pull Request I would like to merge:\n> https://github.com/git-for-windows/git/pull/1214. It simplifies Git for\n> Windows' pthreads emulation rather dramatically, but due to my\n> (misguided?) request, it tries to keep Windows XP support as a\n> compile-time option.\n>\n> The thing is, this code will bit-rot if there is nobody willing to spend\n> even a little bit of time on Windows XP support in Git for Windows.\n> Meaning: it will add to my maintenance burden, which is not okay.\n>\n> So my current preference would be for me to go back to the contributor of\n> PR #1214 with a profound apology for making that suggestion and wasting\n> their time unnecessarily. And then just drop the XP support of our pthread\n> emulation.\n>\n> However, I am not quite certain that I have really exhausted all my\n> options for reaching active developers who are interested enough in\n> Git for Windows' reinstating Windows XP support that they are willing to\n> put in the effort to make it so.\n>\n> Did I reach you, active developers? This is my final attempt to do so...\n\nWhile it is still regrettable, I think your initial decision, as noted at \nthe beginning, is/will be the right decision. I'm happy to accept that, and \ndo thank you for all the effort on maintining GfW, and its XP support for as \nlong as you did. Many thanks.\n\nAt some point I will have to update my tech, once the family budget holder \nreleases the funds ;-)\n--\nPhilip\n\n\n>\n> Ciao,\n> Johannes\n>\n> \n\n"}]}