{"thread":{"id":"42864","subject":"Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","startedAt":"2016-07-16T19:19:25Z","lastAt":"2016-07-19T15:20:48Z","messageCount":12,"participants":["norm@dad.org","Perry Hutchison","Johannes Schindelin","René Scharfe","Eric Wong","Jeff King","Junio C Hamano"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"291602","messageId":"201607161912.u6GJCM79069898@shell1.rawbw.com","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","fromName":"","fromEmail":"norm@dad.org","sentAt":"2016-07-16T19:12:21Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-16T19:19:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"norm@dad.org","avatar":null},"body":"I am trying to learn how to use git, and am having difficulty using 'git diff'.\n\nI can't deal with its output very well. What I would really like to do is apply\n/usr/lib/diff. Would some kind soul be willing to tell me if there is a way to\ndo that, short of making a backup copy of the relevant file, and then doing\n'git checkout'. Maybe the '--ext-diff' argument to 'git diff' will do that,\nbut I can't figure out how to use it.\n\nThank you, most kindly.\n\nContext:\n\n    Operating System: Red Hat Enterprise Linux Workstation release 6.8\n\n    git version: 2.5.1.454.g1616360\n\n Norman Shapiro\n"},{"id":"291606","messageId":"578a9d5b.xL1egXSTCv+mjhAT%perryh@pluto.rain.com","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"201607161912.u6GJCM79069898@shell1.rawbw.com","subject":"Re: Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","fromName":"Perry Hutchison","fromEmail":"perryh@pluto.rain.com","sentAt":"2016-07-16T20:47:23Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-16T21:14:55Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"perryh@pluto.rain.com","avatar":null},"body":"norm@dad.org wrote:\n\n> I am trying to learn how to use git, and am having difficulty\n> using 'git diff'.\n>\n> I can't deal with its output very well. What I would really like\n> to do is apply /usr/lib/diff.\n                      ^^^\n\nFor starters, when using the full pathname, you'll need to spell it\ncorrectly :)\n\n> Would some kind soul be willing to tell me if there is a way to\n> do that, short of making a backup copy of the relevant file, and\n> then doing 'git checkout'. Maybe the '--ext-diff' argument to\n> 'git diff' will do that, but I can't figure out how to use it.\n> ...\n>     git version: 2.5.1.454.g1616360\n\n'git cat' would be simpler than making a backup and using 'git checkout',\nbut for this use case there's a better way even than that.\n\nGoogle is your friend when you can't figure something out from (or\nfind the right part of) a program's own documentation.  A search for\n\n    git \"external diff program\"\n\n(including the quotes) found several references.\n\nOne possible complication:  It's likely that the command parameters\nwhich git passes to an external diff program are not exactly what\n/usr/bin/diff requires.  The solution to that sort of problem is to\nwrite a very short executable script that rearranges the parameters\nas needed, and specify that script (instead of /usr/bin/diff itself)\nas the external diff program.\n"},{"id":"291616","messageId":"alpine.DEB.2.20.1607170942580.28832@virtualbox","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"578a9d5b.xL1egXSTCv+mjhAT%perryh@pluto.rain.com","subject":"Re: Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2016-07-17T07:46:51Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-17T07:47:13Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\n[Perry, my mailer could not find your MX record, so I am sorry I had to\ndrop you from the explicit To:...]\n\nOn Sat, 16 Jul 2016, Perry Hutchison wrote:\n\n> norm@dad.org wrote:\n> \n> > Would some kind soul be willing to tell me if there is a way to\n> > do that, short of making a backup copy of the relevant file, and\n> > then doing 'git checkout'. Maybe the '--ext-diff' argument to\n> > 'git diff' will do that, but I can't figure out how to use it.\n> > ...\n> >     git version: 2.5.1.454.g1616360\n> \n> 'git cat' would be simpler than making a backup and using 'git checkout',\n> but for this use case there's a better way even than that.\n\n$ git cat\ngit: 'cat' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.\n\n;-)\n\nYou probably meant `git cat-file blob <SHA-1>`.\n\n> Google is your friend when you can't figure something out from (or\n> find the right part of) a program's own documentation.  A search for\n> \n>     git \"external diff program\"\n> \n> (including the quotes) found several references.\n> \n> One possible complication:  It's likely that the command parameters\n> which git passes to an external diff program are not exactly what\n> /usr/bin/diff requires.  The solution to that sort of problem is to\n> write a very short executable script that rearranges the parameters\n> as needed, and specify that script (instead of /usr/bin/diff itself)\n> as the external diff program.\n\nTo spell it out, you probably referred to the --ext-diff option:\nhttps://github.com/git/git/blob/v2.9.2/Documentation/diff-options.txt#L528-L531\n\nThis option can be used with any diff-producing Git command, but it\nrequires a .gitattribute setting together with the corresponding\ndiff.external setting in the config.\n\nA better method might be to use the `git difftool` command, e.g.\n\n\tgit difftool -x diff\n\nYou can also inspect the diff of a commit, using the ^! suffix, e.g.\n\n\tgit difftool -x diff origin/master~3^!\n\nIf you want to avoid the prompt and get the complete diff for all files in\none go, you will have to write a small script as indicated, e.g.\n\n\tprintf '#!/bin/sh\\n\\n/usr/bin/diff -r \"$@\"\\n' >my-diff.sh\n\tchmod a+x my-diff.sh\n\tgit difftool -d -x $PWD/my-diff.sh HEAD^!\n\nI did write all of this in the mail program, so I highly recommend reading\nthe man page of the difftool e.g. to understand the meaning of the -d\noption, so that you can fix any problems with my examples yourself.\n\nCiao,\nJohannes\n"},{"id":"291626","messageId":"578B7779.6090507@web.de","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"201607161912.u6GJCM79069898@shell1.rawbw.com","subject":"Re: Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","fromName":"René Scharfe","fromEmail":"l.s.r@web.de","sentAt":"2016-07-17T12:18:01Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-17T12:18:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"l.s.r@web.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/26122331?v=4"},"body":"Am 16.07.2016 um 21:12 schrieb norm@dad.org:\n> I am trying to learn how to use git, and am having difficulty using 'git diff'.\n>\n> I can't deal with its output very well.\n\nThe other replies covered how to use the system's own diff instead. \nJust curious: What makes using git diff difficult and its output hard to \ndeal with for you?\n\nThanks,\nRené\n\n"},{"id":"291633","messageId":"201607171726.u6HHQShO005227@shell1.rawbw.com","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"578B7779.6090507@web.de","subject":"Re: Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","fromName":"","fromEmail":"norm@dad.org","sentAt":"2016-07-17T17:26:27Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-17T17:26:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"norm@dad.org","avatar":null},"body":"<l.s.r@web.de> writes:\n>\n>The other replies covered how to use the system's own diff instead.\n>Just curious: What makes using git diff difficult and its output hard to\n>deal with for you?\n\nIn decreasing importance order:\n\nI am 84 years old. I have been using /usr/bin/diff for more than four decades.\nAnd having to learn how to read the output of 'git diff' makes learning how\nto use git a more difficult trick for this old dog to learn. True, the diff of\ntoday is very different from the diff of 1972, but the changes happened\ngradually.\n\nI have scripts which process the output of /usr/bin/diff.\n\n'git diff' outputs escape characters which clutter my terminal. Yes, I can sed\nthem out, but then why are they there?\n\n\n    Norman Shapiro\n"},{"id":"291646","messageId":"alpine.DEB.2.20.1607180922580.28832@virtualbox","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"201607171726.u6HHQShO005227@shell1.rawbw.com","subject":"Re: Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2016-07-18T07:23:04Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-18T07:23:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi Norm,\n\nOn Sun, 17 Jul 2016, norm@dad.org wrote:\n\n> <l.s.r@web.de> writes:\n> >\n> >The other replies covered how to use the system's own diff instead.\n> >Just curious: What makes using git diff difficult and its output hard to\n> >deal with for you?\n> \n> In decreasing importance order:\n> \n> I am 84 years old.\n\nWow. Chapeau! I am impressed.\n\n> I have been using /usr/bin/diff for more than four decades.  And having\n> to learn how to read the output of 'git diff' makes learning how to use\n> git a more difficult trick for this old dog to learn. True, the diff of\n> today is very different from the diff of 1972, but the changes happened\n> gradually.\n\nCurious: do you use context diff (GNU diff's default) or unified diffs?\n\n> I have scripts which process the output of /usr/bin/diff.\n\nEven more curious: what do those scripts do? Maybe they do things that we\neither can already do with Git's diff, or that we can teach Git.\n\n> 'git diff' outputs escape characters which clutter my terminal. Yes, I\n> can sed them out, but then why are they there?\n\nThose are most likely the ANSI sequences to add color. Can you call Git\nwith the --no-color option and see whether the escape characters go away?\n\nCiao,\nJohannes\n"},{"id":"291647","messageId":"20160718091907.GA13588@starla","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.2.20.1607180922580.28832@virtualbox","subject":"[PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"","fromName":"Eric Wong","fromEmail":"e@80x24.org","sentAt":"2016-07-18T09:19:07Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-18T09:19:13Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"e@80x24.org","avatar":null},"body":"Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:\n> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016, norm@dad.org wrote:\n> > 'git diff' outputs escape characters which clutter my terminal. Yes, I\n> > can sed them out, but then why are they there?\n> \n> Those are most likely the ANSI sequences to add color. Can you call Git\n> with the --no-color option and see whether the escape characters go away?\n\nNorm: do you have PAGER=more set by any chance?\nPerhaps changing it to \"less\" will allow you to preserve colors.\n\nI saw a similar or identical problem during my vacation in\nFreeBSD-land.  Perhaps the out-of-the-box experience can be\nimproved:\n\n-----8<-----\nSubject: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"\n\nmore(1) traditionally cannot handle colors.\n\nOn FreeBSD 10.3, a new user ~/.profile explicitly sets\nPAGER=more, but does not configure it to display colors, leading\nto a bad out-of-the-box experience with escape sequences being\nseen by the user.\n\nIn the FreeBSD 10.3 case, /usr/bin/more is actually a hardlink\nto /usr/bin/less and capable of handling colors.  While we could\nset MORE=FRX, this breaks other more(1) implementations,\nincluding the one provided by util-linux on common GNU/Linux\nsystems.\n\nSo take the safe route and assume anybody still using more(1)\ntoday can live with monochrome output, but acknowledge 'R'\nin the MORE environment variable if it was set by the user.\n\nSigned-off-by: Eric Wong <e@80x24.org>\n---\n environment.c |  2 +-\n pager.c       | 11 +++++++++++\n 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)\n\ndiff --git a/environment.c b/environment.c\nindex ca72464..cfb56fd 100644\n--- a/environment.c\n+++ b/environment.c\n@@ -41,7 +41,7 @@ size_t packed_git_limit = DEFAULT_PACKED_GIT_LIMIT;\n size_t delta_base_cache_limit = 96 * 1024 * 1024;\n unsigned long big_file_threshold = 512 * 1024 * 1024;\n const char *pager_program;\n-int pager_use_color = 1;\n+int pager_use_color = -1;\n const char *editor_program;\n const char *askpass_program;\n const char *excludes_file;\ndiff --git a/pager.c b/pager.c\nindex 4bc0481..3110df4 100644\n--- a/pager.c\n+++ b/pager.c\n@@ -80,6 +80,17 @@ void setup_pager(void)\n \tif (!pager)\n \t\treturn;\n \n+\tif (pager_use_color < 0 && !strcmp(pager, \"more\")) {\n+\t\tconst char *more = getenv(\"MORE\");\n+\n+\t\t/*\n+\t\t * MORE=R does not work everywhere, so we cannot set it,\n+\t\t * but we can respect it if set.\n+\t\t */\n+\t\tif (!more || !strchr(more, 'R'))\n+\t\t\tpager_use_color = 0;\n+\t}\n+\n \t/*\n \t * force computing the width of the terminal before we redirect\n \t * the standard output to the pager.\n-- \nEW\n"},{"id":"291650","messageId":"20160718131653.GC19751@sigill.intra.peff.net","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"20160718091907.GA13588@starla","subject":"Re: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2016-07-18T13:16:53Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-18T13:17:01Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 09:19:07AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n\n> Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:\n> > On Sun, 17 Jul 2016, norm@dad.org wrote:\n> > > 'git diff' outputs escape characters which clutter my terminal. Yes, I\n> > > can sed them out, but then why are they there?\n> > \n> > Those are most likely the ANSI sequences to add color. Can you call Git\n> > with the --no-color option and see whether the escape characters go away?\n> \n> Norm: do you have PAGER=more set by any chance?\n> Perhaps changing it to \"less\" will allow you to preserve colors.\n> \n> I saw a similar or identical problem during my vacation in\n> FreeBSD-land.  Perhaps the out-of-the-box experience can be\n> improved:\n> \n> -----8<-----\n> Subject: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"\n\nThis is the tip of a smaller iceberg. See\n\n  http://public-inbox.org/git/52D87A79.6060600%40rawbw.com/t/#u\n\nfor more discussion, and some patches that fix more cases (like \"LESS\"\nwithout \"R\", or \"more\" that _does_ understand \"R\"). I think it was\ndiscarded as being a little too intimate with the details of pagers, but\nit does suck that the out-of-the-box experience on FreeBSD is not good.\nMaybe we should revisit it.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"291659","messageId":"xmqq8twylv8y.fsf@gitster.mtv.corp.google.com","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"20160718131653.GC19751@sigill.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2016-07-18T17:19:09Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-18T17:19:18Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:\n\n> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 09:19:07AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n>\n>> Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:\n>> > On Sun, 17 Jul 2016, norm@dad.org wrote:\n>> > > 'git diff' outputs escape characters which clutter my terminal. Yes, I\n>> > > can sed them out, but then why are they there?\n>> > \n>> > Those are most likely the ANSI sequences to add color. Can you call Git\n>> > with the --no-color option and see whether the escape characters go away?\n>> \n>> Norm: do you have PAGER=more set by any chance?\n>> Perhaps changing it to \"less\" will allow you to preserve colors.\n>> \n>> I saw a similar or identical problem during my vacation in\n>> FreeBSD-land.  Perhaps the out-of-the-box experience can be\n>> improved:\n>> \n>> -----8<-----\n>> Subject: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"\n>\n> This is the tip of a smaller iceberg. See\n>\n>   http://public-inbox.org/git/52D87A79.6060600%40rawbw.com/t/#u\n>\n> for more discussion, and some patches that fix more cases (like \"LESS\"\n> without \"R\", or \"more\" that _does_ understand \"R\"). I think it was\n> discarded as being a little too intimate with the details of pagers, but\n> it does suck that the out-of-the-box experience on FreeBSD is not good.\n> Maybe we should revisit it.\n\nYup, the three-patch series at\n\n    http://public-inbox.org/git/20140117041430.GB19551%40sigill.intra.peff.net/\n\nwould be a safe starting point that is low-impact.  I think what\nended up being discarded was a more elaborate side topic that\nstarted from exploring the possibility of checking if LESS has 'R'\nin it to see if it is possible to help people with LESS that does\nnot allow coloring explicitly exported.\n\nI do not think the approach in the same thread suggested by Kyle\n\n  http://public-inbox.org/git/62DB6DEF-8B39-4481-BA06-245BF45233E5%40gmail.com/\n\nis too bad, either.\n"},{"id":"291671","messageId":"20160718185826.GB24726@sigill.intra.peff.net","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"xmqq8twylv8y.fsf@gitster.mtv.corp.google.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2016-07-18T18:58:26Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-18T18:58:34Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 10:19:09AM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n\n> > This is the tip of a smaller iceberg. See\n> >\n> >   http://public-inbox.org/git/52D87A79.6060600%40rawbw.com/t/#u\n> >\n> > for more discussion, and some patches that fix more cases (like \"LESS\"\n> > without \"R\", or \"more\" that _does_ understand \"R\"). I think it was\n> > discarded as being a little too intimate with the details of pagers, but\n> > it does suck that the out-of-the-box experience on FreeBSD is not good.\n> > Maybe we should revisit it.\n> \n> Yup, the three-patch series at\n> \n>     http://public-inbox.org/git/20140117041430.GB19551%40sigill.intra.peff.net/\n> \n> would be a safe starting point that is low-impact.  I think what\n> ended up being discarded was a more elaborate side topic that\n> started from exploring the possibility of checking if LESS has 'R'\n> in it to see if it is possible to help people with LESS that does\n> not allow coloring explicitly exported.\n\nYeah, I only re-skimmed the thread, but I had the same impression. I am\ntraveling the next few days, so I will probably not get to it soon.  If\nanybody wants to pick up and rebase/polish those patches as necessary,\nbe my guest.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"291700","messageId":"20160719023746.GA3420@plume","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"xmqq8twylv8y.fsf@gitster.mtv.corp.google.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"","fromName":"Eric Wong","fromEmail":"e@80x24.org","sentAt":"2016-07-19T02:37:46Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-19T02:37:51Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"e@80x24.org","avatar":null},"body":"Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:\n> Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:\n> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 09:19:07AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:\n> >> Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> wrote:\n> >> > On Sun, 17 Jul 2016, norm@dad.org wrote:\n> >> > > 'git diff' outputs escape characters which clutter my terminal. Yes, I\n> >> > > can sed them out, but then why are they there?\n> >> > \n> >> > Those are most likely the ANSI sequences to add color. Can you call Git\n> >> > with the --no-color option and see whether the escape characters go away?\n> >> \n> >> Norm: do you have PAGER=more set by any chance?\n> >> Perhaps changing it to \"less\" will allow you to preserve colors.\n> >> \n> >> I saw a similar or identical problem during my vacation in\n> >> FreeBSD-land.  Perhaps the out-of-the-box experience can be\n> >> improved:\n> >> \n> >> -----8<-----\n> >> Subject: [PATCH] pager: disable color when pager is \"more\"\n> >\n> > This is the tip of a smaller iceberg. See\n> >\n> >   http://public-inbox.org/git/52D87A79.6060600%40rawbw.com/t/#u\n> >\n> > for more discussion, and some patches that fix more cases (like \"LESS\"\n> > without \"R\", or \"more\" that _does_ understand \"R\"). I think it was\n> > discarded as being a little too intimate with the details of pagers, but\n> > it does suck that the out-of-the-box experience on FreeBSD is not good.\n> > Maybe we should revisit it.\n\nYes; I'd prefer not to get too intimate with the details of\npagers, either, and I think we should err on the side of\nmonochrome for systems we do not know much about.\n\n> Yup, the three-patch series at\n> \n>     http://public-inbox.org/git/20140117041430.GB19551%40sigill.intra.peff.net/\n\nI am not a fan of adding #ifdefs for platform-specific things;\nso I prefer starting with my original patch to disable colors\nfor \"more\".  (or, even disable colors for everything which\nis not \"less\" or \"lv\")\n \n> would be a safe starting point that is low-impact.  I think what\n> ended up being discarded was a more elaborate side topic that\n> started from exploring the possibility of checking if LESS has 'R'\n> in it to see if it is possible to help people with LESS that does\n> not allow coloring explicitly exported.\n\nHeh... (see below)\n\n> I do not think the approach in the same thread suggested by Kyle\n> \n>   http://public-inbox.org/git/62DB6DEF-8B39-4481-BA06-245BF45233E5%40gmail.com/\n> \n> is too bad, either.\n\nI like Kyle's suggestion, and I think that can be a good\ntransition from your original patch to move pager\nconfiguration into the build:\n\nhttps://public-inbox.org/git/xmqq61piw4yf.fsf@gitster.dls.corp.google.com/\n\nI've updated just that and pushed just that to the \"pager-build\"\ntopic of git://bogomips.org/git-svn\n\nSo I'd prefer we drop the later automatic header generation\nchanges that got squashed into later iterations.\n\n\nUnfortunately, it looks like that all got lost in Jeff's\n13-patch \"makefile refactoring\" topic starting at:\n\nhttps://public-inbox.org/git/20140205174823.GA15070@sigill.intra.peff.net/\n\nYeah, we tend to get sidetracked :x\n"},{"id":"291723","messageId":"201607191520.u6JFKUM3026844@shell1.rawbw.com","threadId":"42864","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.2.20.1607170942580.28832@virtualbox","subject":"Re: Question: Getting 'git diff' to generate /usr/bin/diff output","fromName":"","fromEmail":"norm@dad.org","sentAt":"2016-07-19T15:20:29Z","receivedAt":"2016-07-19T15:20:48Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"norm@dad.org","avatar":null},"body":"Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> writes:\n>\n>A better method might be to use the `git difftool` command, e.g.\n>\n>git difftool -x diff\n\nSomething like:\n\ngit difftool --no-prompt --extcmd=diff\n\nor like:\n\ngit difftool --no-prompt --extcmd=\"diff -b\" \"$@\"\n\nworks great for me. Thank you very much indeed!\n\n    Norman Shapiro\n"}]}