{"thread":{"id":"4027","subject":"[ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","startedAt":"2006-05-02T23:25:53Z","lastAt":"2006-05-04T01:23:23Z","messageCount":37,"participants":["Petr Baudis","Junio C Hamano","Paolo Ciarrocchi","Nicolas Pitre","Shawn Pearce","Andreas Ericsson","Linus Torvalds","Jakub Narebski","Theodore Tso","Daniel Barkalow","sean","David Lang","Sam Ravnborg","Joel Becker"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"19384","messageId":"20060502232553.GL27689@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"[ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-02T23:25:53Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-02T23:25:53Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":" Hi,\n\n I have just set up a (fairly crude, but hey, it seems to work) wiki at\n\n\thttp://git.or.cz/gitwiki\n\n It's slow and ugly but if it becomes popular, I will move it to\nsomething better than Apache CGI. ;-) I also haven't written more than\nan introductory paragraph on the front page, the rest is up to you.\n\n I'm personally not exceptionally fond of wikis (other than Wikipedia)\nbut a wish to have one has been expressed several times and I hope it\nwill be helpful for the Git community; not only the newbies might dig\n(and especially exchange!) some useful information, tips'n'trick and\nsuch. Ideally, it could become a melting pot for the Documentation/\ndirectories or the rather austere (I take patches) Git homepage - or\nsomething entirely different. Whatever _you_ make from it.\n\n Editally yours,\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"},{"id":"19389","messageId":"7virooj92i.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060502232553.GL27689@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"junkio@cox.net","sentAt":"2006-05-02T23:33:41Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-02T23:33:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Petr Baudis writes:\n\n> I'm personally not exceptionally fond of wikis (other than Wikipedia)\n> but a wish to have one has been expressed several times and I hope it\n> will be helpful for the Git community; not only the newbies might dig\n> (and especially exchange!) some useful information, tips'n'trick and\n> such. Ideally, it could become a melting pot for the Documentation/\n> directories or the rather austere (I take patches) Git homepage - or\n> something entirely different. Whatever _you_ make from it.\n\nThanks for doing this. I am not a Wiki person myself, and\nwould rather want to see we have useful and authoritative bits\nin the Documentation set, but this would help the community.\n\nI'd love to see somebody volunteer to act as an editor to feed\ncooked topics for inclusion of the Documentation/ set. Anybody?\n"},{"id":"19410","messageId":"4d8e3fd30605030139k33c5a404k54861fdd02c87134@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"7virooj92i.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T08:39:07Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T08:39:07Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 5/3/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> Petr Baudis writes:\n>\n> > I'm personally not exceptionally fond of wikis (other than Wikipedia)\n> > but a wish to have one has been expressed several times and I hope it\n> > will be helpful for the Git community; not only the newbies might dig\n> > (and especially exchange!) some useful information, tips'n'trick and\n> > such. Ideally, it could become a melting pot for the Documentation/\n> > directories or the rather austere (I take patches) Git homepage - or\n> > something entirely different. Whatever _you_ make from it.\n>\n> Thanks for doing this. I am not a Wiki person myself, and\n> would rather want to see we have useful and authoritative bits\n> in the Documentation set, but this would help the community.\n>\n> I'd love to see somebody volunteer to act as an editor to feed\n> cooked topics for inclusion of the Documentation/ set. Anybody?\n\nJunio, would be possible for you to write a Roadmap in a Wiki page,\nsimilar to what Mercurial did here:\nhttp://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/RoadMap ?\n\nBTW, do you know why GIT has not been selected as SCM for OpenSolaris?\n(they choose Mercurial).\n\nCiao,\n\n--\nPaolo\nhttp://paolociarrocchi.googlepages.com\n"},{"id":"19412","messageId":"20060503090007.GM27689@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30605030139k33c5a404k54861fdd02c87134@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-03T09:00:07Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T09:00:07Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:39:07AM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere Paolo Ciarrocchi said that...\n> On 5/3/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> >I'd love to see somebody volunteer to act as an editor to feed\n> >cooked topics for inclusion of the Documentation/ set. Anybody?\n\nI think this has time and someone might emerge naturally.\n\n> Junio, would be possible for you to write a Roadmap in a Wiki page,\n> similar to what Mercurial did here:\n> http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/RoadMap ?\n\nYou can already find a similar (albeit a bit more low-level) document at\n\n\thttp://kernel.org/git/?p=git/git.git;a=blob;hb=todo;f=TODO\n\nbut you can certainly add a link to it to the wiki. ;-)\n\n> BTW, do you know why GIT has not been selected as SCM for OpenSolaris?\n> (they choose Mercurial).\n\nI think it's explained somewhere in their forums (or mailing lists or\nwhatever they actually _are_).\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"},{"id":"19413","messageId":"4d8e3fd30605030213r625ce87fw5cbee554f1c20fbd@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503090007.GM27689@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T09:13:04Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T09:13:04Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 5/3/06, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:39:07AM CEST, I got a letter\n> where Paolo Ciarrocchi said that...\n> > On 5/3/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> > >I'd love to see somebody volunteer to act as an editor to feed\n> > >cooked topics for inclusion of the Documentation/ set. Anybody?\n>\n> I think this has time and someone might emerge naturally.\n>\n> > Junio, would be possible for you to write a Roadmap in a Wiki page,\n> > similar to what Mercurial did here:\n> > http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/RoadMap ?\n>\n> You can already find a similar (albeit a bit more low-level) document at\n>\n> http://kernel.org/git/?p=git/git.git;a=blob;hb=todo;f=TODO\n>\n> but you can certainly add a link to it to the wiki. ;-)\n\nI was looking for something more \"high level but I'll try to add that\nlink to the wiki as soon as I back home from work.\n\n> > BTW, do you know why GIT has not been selected as SCM for OpenSolaris?\n> > (they choose Mercurial).\n>\n> I think it's explained somewhere in their forums (or mailing lists or\n> whatever they actually _are_).\n\nI only found the announcement, not the rationales.\n\nCiao,\n\n--\nPaolo\nhttp://paolociarrocchi.googlepages.com\n"},{"id":"19429","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030934220.28543@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30605030213r625ce87fw5cbee554f1c20fbd@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Nicolas Pitre","fromEmail":"nico@cam.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T13:41:40Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T13:41:40Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nico@fluxnic.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/702790?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 3 May 2006, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n> On 5/3/06, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> > Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:39:07AM CEST, I got a letter\n> > where Paolo Ciarrocchi said that...\n> > > On 5/3/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> > > \n> > > BTW, do you know why GIT has not been selected as SCM for OpenSolaris?\n> > > (they choose Mercurial).\n> > \n> > I think it's explained somewhere in their forums (or mailing lists or\n> > whatever they actually _are_).\n> \n> I only found the announcement, not the rationales.\n\nhttp://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/tools-discuss/2006-April/000366.html\n\nLooks like they didn't buy the argument about the uselessness of \nrecording file renames.\n\n\nNicolas\n"},{"id":"19431","messageId":"20060503142957.GA9056@spearce.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030934220.28543@localhost.localdomain","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Shawn Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T14:29:58Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T14:29:58Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Nicolas Pitre wrote:\n> On Wed, 3 May 2006, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n> > On 5/3/06, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> > > Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:39:07AM CEST, I got a letter\n> > > where Paolo Ciarrocchi said that...\n> > > > On 5/3/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> > > > \n> > > > BTW, do you know why GIT has not been selected as SCM for OpenSolaris?\n> > > > (they choose Mercurial).\n> > > \n> > > I think it's explained somewhere in their forums (or mailing lists or\n> > > whatever they actually _are_).\n> > \n> > I only found the announcement, not the rationales.\n> \n> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/tools-discuss/2006-April/000366.html\n> \n> Looks like they didn't buy the argument about the uselessness of \n> recording file renames.\n\nThe final evaluations are available from here (at the very bottom\nof the page):\n\n http://opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/\n\nIt looks like Mercurial doesn't support renames either, but a lot\nof users are asking for it to be supported. So I don't think that's\nthe reason. It looks more like they didn't enjoy porting GIT 1.2.2\n(as 1.2.4 was found to not work in all cases) to Solaris and the\ntester ran into some problems with the conflict resolution support.\n\nMy own reading of the two final evaluations for GIT and Mercurial\nleaves me feeling like GIT is a more mature tool which is faster\nand more stable then Mercurial. GIT seemed to be more reliable\nduring testing then Mercurial was, despite the cloning issue.\nWhich makes me surprised that OpenSolaris selected Mercurial instead.\n\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"19435","messageId":"4458C5D7.8010501@op5.se","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503142957.GA9056@spearce.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Andreas Ericsson","fromEmail":"ae@op5.se","sentAt":"2006-05-03T15:01:43Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T15:01:43Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"ae@op5.se","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/426e89595c75a8f5252dd0c989e5fabe5bcac616e68557427ad9aef6b0ca342a?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Shawn Pearce wrote:\n> Nicolas Pitre wrote:\n> \n>>On Wed, 3 May 2006, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n>>\n>>>On 5/3/06, Petr Baudis wrote:\n>>>\n>>>>Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:39:07AM CEST, I got a letter\n>>>>where Paolo Ciarrocchi said that...\n>>>>\n>>>>>On 5/3/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>>>>>\n>>>>>BTW, do you know why GIT has not been selected as SCM for OpenSolaris?\n>>>>>(they choose Mercurial).\n>>>>\n>>>>I think it's explained somewhere in their forums (or mailing lists or\n>>>>whatever they actually _are_).\n>>>\n>>>I only found the announcement, not the rationales.\n>>\n>>http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/tools-discuss/2006-April/000366.html\n>>\n>>Looks like they didn't buy the argument about the uselessness of \n>>recording file renames.\n> \n> \n> The final evaluations are available from here (at the very bottom\n> of the page):\n> \n> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/\n> \n> It looks like Mercurial doesn't support renames either, but a lot\n> of users are asking for it to be supported. So I don't think that's\n> the reason. It looks more like they didn't enjoy porting GIT 1.2.2\n> (as 1.2.4 was found to not work in all cases) to Solaris and the\n> tester ran into some problems with the conflict resolution support.\n> \n> My own reading of the two final evaluations for GIT and Mercurial\n> leaves me feeling like GIT is a more mature tool which is faster\n> and more stable then Mercurial. GIT seemed to be more reliable\n> during testing then Mercurial was, despite the cloning issue.\n> Which makes me surprised that OpenSolaris selected Mercurial instead.\n> \n\nConsidering Sun's CEO's common comments on Solaris' superiority over \nLinux I think it's safe to assume that the same CEO wouldn't exactly \njump of joy if his employees started depending on a tool fathered by Linus.\n\nNo offence intended to Mercurial or its developers. Although I don't \nknow anything about how it works I'm fairly sure Sun's developers would \nnever agree to be forced to use an inferior tool (congrats Mercurial \ndevs). However, I *do* think that in a tie-break Mercurial would win for \npolitical reasons.\n\n-- \nAndreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se\nOP5 AB www.op5.se\nTel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231\n"},{"id":"19436","messageId":"4d8e3fd30605030824v40017178o366a9d8aa83557e8@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"4458C5D7.8010501@op5.se","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T15:24:26Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T15:24:26Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 5/3/06, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n> >>On Wed, 3 May 2006, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n> >>\n> >>>On 5/3/06, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> >>>\n> >>>>Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:39:07AM CEST, I got a letter\n> >>>>where Paolo Ciarrocchi said that...\n> >>>>\n> >>>>>On 5/3/06, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> >>>>>\n> >>>>>BTW, do you know why GIT has not been selected as SCM for OpenSolaris?\n> >>>>>(they choose Mercurial).\n> >>>>\n> >>>>I think it's explained somewhere in their forums (or mailing lists or\n> >>>>whatever they actually _are_).\n> >>>\n> >>>I only found the announcement, not the rationales.\n> >>\n> >>http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/tools-discuss/2006-April/000366.html\n> >>\n> >>Looks like they didn't buy the argument about the uselessness of\n> >>recording file renames.\n> >\n> >\n> > The final evaluations are available from here (at the very bottom\n> > of the page):\n> >\n> > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/\n> >\n> > It looks like Mercurial doesn't support renames either, but a lot\n> > of users are asking for it to be supported. So I don't think that's\n> > the reason. It looks more like they didn't enjoy porting GIT 1.2.2\n> > (as 1.2.4 was found to not work in all cases) to Solaris and the\n> > tester ran into some problems with the conflict resolution support.\n> >\n> > My own reading of the two final evaluations for GIT and Mercurial\n> > leaves me feeling like GIT is a more mature tool which is faster\n> > and more stable then Mercurial. GIT seemed to be more reliable\n> > during testing then Mercurial was, despite the cloning issue.\n> > Which makes me surprised that OpenSolaris selected Mercurial instead.\n> >\n>\n\nWould be fantastic to see a fair comparison of the two tools but I\ncan't find anything useful on the web.\n\n--\nPaolo\nhttp://paolociarrocchi.googlepages.com\n"},{"id":"19437","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030817580.4086@g5.osdl.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"4458C5D7.8010501@op5.se","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Linus Torvalds","fromEmail":"torvalds@osdl.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T15:30:26Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T15:30:26Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"torvalds@linux-foundation.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=4"},"body":"\n\nOn Wed, 3 May 2006, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n> \n> Considering Sun's CEO's common comments on Solaris' superiority over Linux I\n> think it's safe to assume that the same CEO wouldn't exactly jump of joy if\n> his employees started depending on a tool fathered by Linus.\n\nI doubt it went that high up, but with any kind of politics it's obviously \npossible that somebody consciously or unconsciously felt it might become a \npolitical problem, and it might have made a difference.\n\nHowever, I think the _real_ issue is that Mercurial has a much nicer \nintroductory phase. The standard mercurial web-page is so much more \nprofessional and nice to look at than any git page I have ever seen, and \nlet's face it: first looks _do_ count.\n\nAlso, the fact that Solaris had the unfortunate bug with signals probably \ndidn't much help to endear git to them, since it made it look like git had \nproblems. Never mind that we solved it - I think it took us a while to \neven realize that Solaris had a problem, because we weren't intimately \ninvolved.\n\nWhich brings me to the final point, which is that I think the hg team was \nvery active and supporting, perhaps Matt himself. That's _important_ - the \nOpenSolaris people probably felt very comfortable with strong support from \nthe developers. It can often be _the_ best (and biggest) reason to choose \nany product - regardless of anything else.\n\nEven if I think the git mailing list itself is very responsive, I think \nthe hg people were just more directly and actively involved. For git, they \nhad to come to us.\n\nI also suspect that some people find python scripts somewhat less \nintimidating than C. I'll also happily admit that my coding standards tend \nto lean towards the \"sparse\" when it comes to comments, and I much prefer \nthe \"small and well-named functions\" approach, and git seems to have stuck \nto that with Junio. Which just turns some people off.\n\nSo I don't think you need politics to explain it. I think hg is doing \nquite well. It took some different design decisions, and while I \npersonally think the git ones are better, I'm somewhat biased ;)\n\n\t\t\tLinus\n"},{"id":"19438","messageId":"e3ai99$mqh$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30605030824v40017178o366a9d8aa83557e8@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T15:30:50Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T15:30:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n\n> Would be fantastic to see a fair comparison of the two tools but I\n> can't find anything useful on the web.\n\nThree tools: Git/Cogito, Mercurial and Monotone.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\n"},{"id":"19440","messageId":"4d8e3fd30605030839i2bb5de8dka8a4af27755051cf@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030817580.4086@g5.osdl.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T15:39:57Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T15:39:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 5/3/06, Linus Torvalds wrote:\n> On Wed, 3 May 2006, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n> >\n> > Considering Sun's CEO's common comments on Solaris' superiority over Linux I\n> > think it's safe to assume that the same CEO wouldn't exactly jump of joy if\n> > his employees started depending on a tool fathered by Linus.\n>\n> I doubt it went that high up, but with any kind of politics it's obviously\n> possible that somebody consciously or unconsciously felt it might become a\n> political problem, and it might have made a difference.\n>\n> However, I think the _real_ issue is that Mercurial has a much nicer\n> introductory phase. The standard mercurial web-page is so much more\n> professional and nice to look at than any git page I have ever seen, and\n> let's face it: first looks _do_ count.\n\nI can only agree.\n\nI'm not a git developer, I'm even not a _real_ developer, I only hack\nfor fun during my very poor spare time but web pages, wiki and\nintroduction offered by Mercurial are really a lot nicer to what git\nis offering at the moment.\n\nPerhaps is just a silly idea, but would be possible for OSDL to host a\nweb site (www.git.org) where we can host pages/wiki an so on?\n\nCiao,\n--\nPaolo\nhttp://paolociarrocchi.googlepages.com\n"},{"id":"19442","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030856540.4086@g5.osdl.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30605030839i2bb5de8dka8a4af27755051cf@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Linus Torvalds","fromEmail":"torvalds@osdl.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T16:06:00Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T16:06:00Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"torvalds@linux-foundation.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=4"},"body":"\n\nOn Wed, 3 May 2006, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n> \n> Perhaps is just a silly idea, but would be possible for OSDL to host a\n> web site (www.git.org) where we can host pages/wiki an so on?\n\nI don't think hosting it would be a problem (it probably would be the same \nkernel.org thing - OSDL is partly involved in maintaining it). The problem \nis the content, and the artistic talent.\n\n_I_ personally have what I'd call \"negative artistic talent\". I think I'm \noccasionally good at designing beautiful data structures (and I think git \nis that, including the pack-files), but that clearly doesn't translate to \nany visual ability what-so-ever. None. Nada. Zilch.\n\nMaybe the new Wiki can evolve into that. It sure looks better today than \nit looked yesterday (now, when I first saw it, it was so ugly that I had \nto dig my eyeballs out with a spoon, so that's not necessarily saying all \nthat much ;)\n\n\t\tLinus\n"},{"id":"19443","messageId":"e3al00$1dj$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030856540.4086@g5.osdl.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T16:17:04Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T16:17:04Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Linus Torvalds wrote:\n\n> \n> \n> On Wed, 3 May 2006, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n>> \n>> Perhaps is just a silly idea, but would be possible for OSDL to host a\n>> web site (www.git.org) where we can host pages/wiki an so on?\n> \n> I don't think hosting it would be a problem (it probably would be the same\n> kernel.org thing - OSDL is partly involved in maintaining it). The problem\n> is the content, and the artistic talent.\n\nAs to content, we could I think use material found at Wikipedia Git page,\nand on External Links in Wikipedia Git_(software) article, not repeating of\ncourse what is in official Git Documentation/\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\n"},{"id":"19444","messageId":"4d8e3fd30605030919xf54e1c2j1e27c4ce04b6864d@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"e3al00$1dj$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T16:19:59Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T16:19:59Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On 5/3/06, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Linus Torvalds wrote:\n> > On Wed, 3 May 2006, Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n> >>\n> >> Perhaps is just a silly idea, but would be possible for OSDL to host a\n> >> web site (www.git.org) where we can host pages/wiki an so on?\n> >\n> > I don't think hosting it would be a problem (it probably would be the same\n> > kernel.org thing - OSDL is partly involved in maintaining it). The problem\n> > is the content, and the artistic talent.\n>\n> As to content, we could I think use material found at Wikipedia Git page,\n> and on External Links in Wikipedia Git_(software) article, not repeating of\n> course what is in official Git Documentation/\n\nI just added the TODO list link but I'm not a wiki expert, if you know\nhow to link to the article from Wikipedia please do it ;-)\n\nCiao,\n--\nPaolo\nhttp://paolociarrocchi.googlepages.com\n"},{"id":"19446","messageId":"e3amo1$86v$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"4d8e3fd30605030919xf54e1c2j1e27c4ce04b6864d@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T16:46:57Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T16:46:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Paolo Ciarrocchi wrote:\n\n> On 5/3/06, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n>> As to content, we could I think use material found at Wikipedia Git page,\n>> and on External Links in Wikipedia Git_(software) article, not repeating\n>> of course what is in official Git Documentation/\n> \n> I just added the TODO list link but I'm not a wiki expert, if you know\n> how to link to the article from Wikipedia please do it ;-)\n\nI thought about copying contents, not making a link to WikiPedia article.\nI tried to make InterWiki link, WikiPedia:Git_(software) but MoinMoin engine\ndoesn't deal well with parentheses.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\n"},{"id":"19447","messageId":"20060503164732.GB9820@thunk.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030817580.4086@g5.osdl.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Theodore Tso","fromEmail":"tytso@mit.edu","sentAt":"2006-05-03T16:47:32Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T16:47:32Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"tytso@mit.edu","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/51416?v=4"},"body":"Mercurial also has an easier learning curve; and while the \"Everyday\nGit with 20 commands or so\" is a very good document, and I've found it\ninvaluable for getting started, if you compare it to the \"Quick Start\nfor the Impatient\" page on the front page of the Mercurial Wiki, for\nmany people Mercurial will *appear* to be an order of magitude simpler\nand is yet powerful enough for their project.\n\nOf course, a lot of it is that git *is* much more powerful, much like\nthe difference between a stickshift with a racing clutch (git) and a\ncar with an automatic transmission (hg). So maybe one thing that\nwould help git would be a stronger emphasis of cogito for those\nprojects that don't need the full power of using git \"straight up\".\n\nJust a thought....\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t- Ted\n"},{"id":"19449","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030958370.4086@g5.osdl.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503164732.GB9820@thunk.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Linus Torvalds","fromEmail":"torvalds@osdl.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T17:06:25Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T17:06:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"torvalds@linux-foundation.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=4"},"body":"\n\nOn Wed, 3 May 2006, Theodore Tso wrote:\n> \n> Of course, a lot of it is that git *is* much more powerful, much like\n> the difference between a stickshift with a racing clutch (git) and a\n> car with an automatic transmission (hg).\n\nI don't think that's necessarily a good comparison.\n\nThe \"easy things\" are easy even with git. Our explanation pages and \ntutorials just tend to want to show off, and do more than they need to. \n\nEven the \"everyday git in 20 commands\" actually starts out scaring people \nwith listing commands that they don't need to know about immediately. The \nwhole fsck/count-object/pruning thing shouldn't even be mentioned until \nafter you've shown how easy it is to just do\n\n\tgit init-db\n\tgit add .\n\tgit commit -a\n\nto import an old project, and then do an example commit or something \n(one of the early examples).\n\nSo yeah. We should have a main page that starts off with the \"everyday \ngit\" link (preferably further simplified) very prominently, and just looks \nless scary.\n\nPeople are probably already expecting the worst - partly because git is \nnewer than some of the other projects (not hg, but svn/svk/monotone etc), \nand partly because I was actively trying to not over-promise or over-sell \nearly on when it wasn't clear how good git was going to get..\n\nSo looking pretty and easy to use is clearly important, and I think git \nhas the _capability_ for that, we've not just documented it that way.\n\n\t\t\tLinus\n"},{"id":"19450","messageId":"20060503171538.GC9820@thunk.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030958370.4086@g5.osdl.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Theodore Tso","fromEmail":"tytso@mit.edu","sentAt":"2006-05-03T17:15:38Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T17:15:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"tytso@mit.edu","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/51416?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:06:25AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:\n> Even the \"everyday git in 20 commands\" actually starts out scaring people \n> with listing commands that they don't need to know about immediately. The \n> whole fsck/count-object/pruning thing shouldn't even be mentioned until \n> after you've shown how easy it is to just do\n> \n> \tgit init-db\n> \tgit add .\n> \tgit commit -a\n> \n> to import an old project, and then do an example commit or something \n> (one of the early examples).\n\nYeah, but the fact that you have to use repack and prune in order to\nkeep the disk space usage from exploding (especially with the Linux\n2.6 tree) , means that we have to expose that mess to the beginning\nuser. Could git be made to do the repacking automatically when it\nmakes sense using some hueristic algorithm?\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t- Ted\n"},{"id":"19452","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031037250.4086@g5.osdl.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503171538.GC9820@thunk.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Linus Torvalds","fromEmail":"torvalds@osdl.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T17:40:21Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T17:40:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"torvalds@linux-foundation.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=4"},"body":"\n\nOn Wed, 3 May 2006, Theodore Tso wrote:\n> \n> Yeah, but the fact that you have to use repack and prune in order to\n> keep the disk space usage from exploding (especially with the Linux\n> 2.6 tree) , means that we have to expose that mess to the beginning\n> user.\n\nNo you don't. You get it packed when it's cloned, and the disk usage \ndoesn't go up _that_ fast. By the time you need to worry about disk usage \nyou have certainly had time to learn the basics.\n\nNo need to start talking about fsck or repacking until the second day.\n\n> Could git be made to do the repacking automatically when it makes sense \n> using some hueristic algorithm?\n\nThis was discussed, and yeah, it _could_, but I suspect you really don't \nwant to repack in the middle of some op. Even if your repo was _mostly_ \npacked, it's an irritating hickup at a time when you don't need to.\n\nI think it's much better to teach people to repack once a week (if that). \nBut to teach them only after they've already _used_ it for a week and \naren't intimidated by the basic ops any longer.\n\n\t\tLinus\n"},{"id":"19457","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031355250.6713@iabervon.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503164732.GB9820@thunk.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Daniel Barkalow","fromEmail":"barkalow@iabervon.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T18:04:49Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T18:04:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"barkalow@iabervon.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/55364219?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 3 May 2006, Theodore Tso wrote:\n\n> Mercurial also has an easier learning curve; and while the \"Everyday\n> Git with 20 commands or so\" is a very good document, and I've found it\n> invaluable for getting started, if you compare it to the \"Quick Start\n> for the Impatient\" page on the front page of the Mercurial Wiki, for\n> many people Mercurial will *appear* to be an order of magitude simpler\n> and is yet powerful enough for their project.\n\nActually, we could almost steal their QuickStart, replace \"hg\" with \"git\", \nand have it actually be correct.\n\nSetting up public access follows a slightly different pattern, but \notherwise, all of the operations on that page are identical or simpler in \ngit than as given in that document, AFAICT.\n\n\t-Daniel\n*This .sig left intentionally blank*\n"},{"id":"19458","messageId":"BAYC1-PASMTP049717FBA1C348C8A60C8CAEB70@CEZ.ICE","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503164732.GB9820@thunk.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"sean","fromEmail":"seanlkml@sympatico.ca","sentAt":"2006-05-03T18:45:22Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T18:45:22Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"seanlkml@sympatico.ca","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/f92923f54fc08c401fc59b71829d4b89e9b8087fbba45ff87c82e6a83aee02ae?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Wed, 3 May 2006 12:47:32 -0400\nTheodore Tso wrote:\n\n> Of course, a lot of it is that git *is* much more powerful, much like\n> the difference between a stickshift with a racing clutch (git) and a\n> car with an automatic transmission (hg). So maybe one thing that\n> would help git would be a stronger emphasis of cogito for those\n> projects that don't need the full power of using git \"straight up\".\n\nThe docs and higher-level user commands can still use some work, but\ntelling people they have to install and learn an entire extra layer\nisn't going to win many converts. Personally I think Git needs a bit\nmore polish and to stop thinking of itself as mostly plumbing. Even so\nGit really has become pretty good at making simple things simple:\n\ninit-db, add/rm, commit -a,\nstatus, show, log, gitk, diff,\nbranch, checkout, clone, fetch/pull\n\nThe fact that it's faster, requires less disk space, and has all the\nlower level tools you need to do \"complex stuff\", should make it a\ntempting choice once the remaining rough edges are removed.\nBut there is nothing inherently complex about Git.\n\nSean\n"},{"id":"19460","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.62.0605031218570.12716@qynat.qvtvafvgr.pbz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"e3al00$1dj$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"David Lang","fromEmail":"dlang@digitalinsight.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T19:21:54Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T19:21:54Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dlang@digitalinsight.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Wed, 3 May 2006, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> As to content, we could I think use material found at Wikipedia Git page,\n> and on External Links in Wikipedia Git_(software) article, not repeating of\n> course what is in official Git Documentation/\n\nplease go ahead and put a lot of the info that is in the GIT \nDocumentation/ on the wiki. it's far easier to go to one site and browse \naround to find things then to run into issues where you have to go \nsomewhere else (with different tools) to find the info.\n\neven if you just put all the documentation files there, as-is (as text \nfiles even, no hyperlinks in them) they should still be there.\n\nDavid Lang\n\n-- \nThere are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.\n -- C.A.R. Hoare\n"},{"id":"19461","messageId":"20060503193013.GN27689@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.62.0605031218570.12716@qynat.qvtvafvgr.pbz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-03T19:30:13Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T19:30:13Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 09:21:54PM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere David Lang said that...\n> On Wed, 3 May 2006, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> \n> >As to content, we could I think use material found at Wikipedia Git page,\n> >and on External Links in Wikipedia Git_(software) article, not repeating of\n> >course what is in official Git Documentation/\n> \n> please go ahead and put a lot of the info that is in the GIT \n> Documentation/ on the wiki. it's far easier to go to one site and browse \n> around to find things then to run into issues where you have to go \n> somewhere else (with different tools) to find the info.\n> \n> even if you just put all the documentation files there, as-is (as text \n> files even, no hyperlinks in them) they should still be there.\n\nThen who will keep it in sync (BOTH ways)? That would be quite a lot of\nwork, I think.\n\nThat said, having the documentation in a wiki is not a bad idea per se,\nbut you need to keep things consistent and converging. And I believe\n(and hope) that killing Documentation/ directory is no option - I hate\nit when documentation of software I installed just tells me \"look at\nthis URI\" (which documents a different version anyway, and it's all very\nuseful when I'm sitting in a train with my notebook).\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"},{"id":"19462","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.62.0605031243230.12716@qynat.qvtvafvgr.pbz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503193013.GN27689@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"David Lang","fromEmail":"dlang@digitalinsight.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T19:46:33Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T19:46:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dlang@digitalinsight.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Wed, 3 May 2006, Petr Baudis wrote:\n\n> Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 09:21:54PM CEST, I got a letter\n> where David Lang said that...\n>> On Wed, 3 May 2006, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>\n>>> As to content, we could I think use material found at Wikipedia Git page,\n>>> and on External Links in Wikipedia Git_(software) article, not repeating of\n>>> course what is in official Git Documentation/\n>>\n>> please go ahead and put a lot of the info that is in the GIT\n>> Documentation/ on the wiki. it's far easier to go to one site and browse\n>> around to find things then to run into issues where you have to go\n>> somewhere else (with different tools) to find the info.\n>>\n>> even if you just put all the documentation files there, as-is (as text\n>> files even, no hyperlinks in them) they should still be there.\n>\n> Then who will keep it in sync (BOTH ways)? That would be quite a lot of\n> work, I think.\n>\n> That said, having the documentation in a wiki is not a bad idea per se,\n> but you need to keep things consistent and converging. And I believe\n> (and hope) that killing Documentation/ directory is no option - I hate\n> it when documentation of software I installed just tells me \"look at\n> this URI\" (which documents a different version anyway, and it's all very\n> useful when I'm sitting in a train with my notebook).\n\nI agree with this completely.\n\nas for keeping it in sync, the ideal situation would be for a \ndocumentation manager to take that job ;-) but lacking that just put the \ndocumentation in a non-editable page somewhere and link to it from the \nwiki (this could even be pages at kernel.org or wherever you have the raw \nsource available outside of git itself)\n\nDavid Lang\n\n-- \nThere are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.\n -- C.A.R. Hoare\n"},{"id":"19464","messageId":"20060503200700.GO27689@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.62.0605031243230.12716@qynat.qvtvafvgr.pbz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-03T20:07:00Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T20:07:00Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 09:46:33PM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere David Lang said that...\n> as for keeping it in sync, the ideal situation would be for a \n> documentation manager to take that job ;-) but lacking that just put the \n> documentation in a non-editable page somewhere and link to it from the \n> wiki (this could even be pages at kernel.org or wherever you have the raw \n> source available outside of git itself)\n\nWell, that one is pretty easy.\n\n\thttp://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/\n\thttp://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/cogito/docs/\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"},{"id":"19465","messageId":"7vy7xibzbj.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030817580.4086@g5.osdl.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"junkio@cox.net","sentAt":"2006-05-03T20:58:24Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T20:58:24Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Linus Torvalds writes:\n\n> Which brings me to the final point, which is that I think the hg team was \n> very active and supporting, perhaps Matt himself. That's _important_ - the \n> OpenSolaris people probably felt very comfortable with strong support from \n> the developers. It can often be _the_ best (and biggest) reason to choose \n> any product - regardless of anything else.\n\nI agree with this 100%. I happened to be talking with Eric\nabout the clone breakage he was having on #git channel, and I\nasked him to help me diagnose the problem, which resulted in the\nsolution we saw on the list. It turned out to be the same\n\"1.2.2 works but 1.2.4 not\" problem OpenSolaris evaluator was\nhaving. I was never contacted from somebody in the OpenSolaris\ncircle during the whole exercise.\n\nBut reading their Mercurial report apparently suggests that\ntheir hg evaluator was with direct contact with the right\ncommunity from early on. I still do not even know (I've seen it\nonce in _their_ report) who the git evaluator on their end was.\nI am not surprised that the difference in depth of involvements\nand contact between the development community and the respective\nevaluator contributed to the result in a major way.\n\n> Even if I think the git mailing list itself is very responsive, I think \n> the hg people were just more directly and actively involved. For git, they \n> had to come to us.\n\nThat is _very_ unfair to me. It is not like git and hg both\nsubmitted proposals to be chosen by them and then we dropped the\nball by not supporting them properly. They have to come to us.\n\nThe time I personally became aware about their DSCM selection\ncontest was when its initial phase was almost over; even if I\nwere willing to help them, it was too late. And no, I do not\nhave enough time to go fishing for such opportunities everywhere\nto help many random projects, either.\n"},{"id":"19466","messageId":"7vr73abz5l.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"7vy7xibzbj.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"junkio@cox.net","sentAt":"2006-05-03T21:01:58Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T21:01:58Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Junio C Hamano writes:\n\n> I agree with this 100%. I happened to be talking with Eric\n> about the clone breakage he was having on #git channel, and I\n\nSorry, my memory is failing. It was Oejet I was talking with.\n \n"},{"id":"19472","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031505390.4086@g5.osdl.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"7vy7xibzbj.fsf@assigned-by-dhcp.cox.net","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Linus Torvalds","fromEmail":"torvalds@osdl.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T22:13:10Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T22:13:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"torvalds@linux-foundation.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=4"},"body":"\n\nOn Wed, 3 May 2006, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> \n> > Even if I think the git mailing list itself is very responsive, I think \n> > the hg people were just more directly and actively involved. For git, they \n> > had to come to us.\n> \n> That is _very_ unfair to me. It is not like git and hg both\n> submitted proposals to be chosen by them and then we dropped the\n> ball by not supporting them properly. They have to come to us.\n\nOh, sorry, I didn't mean it in that way. Of _course_ they should have come \nto us with their issues.\n\nSo I don't think git was doing anything wrong there, I was just stating it \nas a neutral fact, rather than any criticism - the hg people were involved \n(and I think they were pushing it), and the git people weren't, because \nthey never came to us.\n\nNot a big deal. I actually think we'll be better off with some competition \nto keep us on our toes.\n\n\t\t\tLinus\n"},{"id":"19474","messageId":"20060503223932.GA28081@mars.ravnborg.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030958370.4086@g5.osdl.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Sam Ravnborg","fromEmail":"sam@ravnborg.org","sentAt":"2006-05-03T22:39:32Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T22:39:32Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sam@ravnborg.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/168a912606ed0742d840bb365e3cc21db390c36531a58341dc7a069cc1f15f62?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:06:25AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:\n> Even the \"everyday git in 20 commands\" actually starts out scaring people \n> with listing commands that they don't need to know about immediately.\n\n20 commands is much more than I use in my daily use of git.\n\nLets see:\ngit clone\ngit diff\ngit reset --hard\ngit ls-files\ngit grep\ngit add\ngit rm\ncg-commit\ncg-restore\ngit push\ngit am\n\nI may have missed one or two - but this is it. Lees then 20.\nAnd I never use pack or fsck.\n\nIt is not that difficult. A few cogito commands creeped in also. I just\nfind them easier to use.\n\nIn other words - the tutorials are covering too much as stated by\nothers.\n\n\tSam\n"},{"id":"19475","messageId":"20060503224645.GR27689@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503223932.GA28081@mars.ravnborg.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-03T22:46:45Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T22:46:45Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Thu, May 04, 2006 at 12:39:32AM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere Sam Ravnborg said that...\n> 20 commands is much more than I use in my daily use of git.\n> \n> Lets see:\n> git clone\n> git diff\n> git reset --hard\n> git ls-files\n> git grep\n> git add\n> git rm\n> cg-commit\n> cg-restore\n> git push\n> git am\n\nI think git ls-files isn't used directly very frequently. OTOH, you\ndon't use cg-log or git log and cg-status/git status? :) Also, most\npeople will pull.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"},{"id":"19477","messageId":"20060503225056.GT4226@ca-server1.us.oracle.com","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503224645.GR27689@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Joel Becker","fromEmail":"joel.becker@oracle.com","sentAt":"2006-05-03T22:50:56Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T22:50:56Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"joel.becker@oracle.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 12:46:45AM +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> I think git ls-files isn't used directly very frequently. OTOH, you\n> don't use cg-log or git log and cg-status/git status? :) Also, most\n> people will pull.\n\n\tI use git ls-files, becuase it's the only way I know how to\nblow away dirty state that added files. I ran into this just yesterday,\nactually. git checkout -f won't remove files that are unknown.\n\n $ git ls-files -o | xargs rm -rf\n\nJoel\n\n-- \n\nLife's Little Instruction Book #452\n\n\t\"Never compromise your integrity.\"\n\nJoel Becker\nPrincipal Software Developer\nOracle\nE-mail: joel.becker@oracle.com\nPhone: (650) 506-8127\n"},{"id":"19478","messageId":"20060503230502.GM27631@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503225056.GT4226@ca-server1.us.oracle.com","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-03T23:05:02Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-03T23:05:02Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Thu, May 04, 2006 at 12:50:56AM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere Joel Becker said that...\n> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 12:46:45AM +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> > I think git ls-files isn't used directly very frequently. OTOH, you\n> > don't use cg-log or git log and cg-status/git status? :) Also, most\n> > people will pull.\n> \n> \tI use git ls-files, becuase it's the only way I know how to\n> blow away dirty state that added files. I ran into this just yesterday,\n> actually. git checkout -f won't remove files that are unknown.\n> \n> $ git ls-files -o | xargs rm -rf\n\nYou can use cg-clean, and I think Git has got git-clean added recently.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"},{"id":"19484","messageId":"20060504003518.GT27689@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605030817580.4086@g5.osdl.org","subject":"[ANNOUNCE] Revamped Git homepage","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-04T00:35:18Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-04T00:35:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 05:30:26PM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere Linus Torvalds said that...\n> However, I think the _real_ issue is that Mercurial has a much nicer \n> introductory phase. The standard mercurial web-page is so much more \n> professional and nice to look at than any git page I have ever seen, and \n> let's face it: first looks _do_ count.\n\nYes, I've already learned earlier that this made quite a bad impression\non many people and had the homepage revamp on top of my TODO list for\nthe last few weeks.\n\nWell, here we go, I've just uploaded a new version of the Git homepage;\nI wonder how you feel about it now.\n\nObviously, it still feels rather empty and I'm certainly not much of\na webmaster myself, but I take patches and pull requests; see\nhttp://git.or.cz/community.html for the Git homepage git repository\ninformation.\n\nI've borrowed Jonas Fonseca's ELinks homepage design first, but the\ncontents ended up almost entirely rewritten as well (except the Related\nTools section, which stayed mostly as it was). Git now poses as a real\nversion control system and the plumbing stuff is mentioned only in the\nbottom paragraphs. ;-)\n\n\nBTW, if anyone is into CSS and stuff, after half an hour of beating it\nI couldn't manage to make the top bar look right - everything is shifted\nslightly to the top. :/\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"},{"id":"19489","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605032045510.6713@iabervon.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060503193013.GN27689@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Git wiki","fromName":"Daniel Barkalow","fromEmail":"barkalow@iabervon.org","sentAt":"2006-05-04T00:53:50Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-04T00:53:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"barkalow@iabervon.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/55364219?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 3 May 2006, Petr Baudis wrote:\n\n> Dear diary, on Wed, May 03, 2006 at 09:21:54PM CEST, I got a letter\n> where David Lang said that...\n> > On Wed, 3 May 2006, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > \n> > >As to content, we could I think use material found at Wikipedia Git page,\n> > >and on External Links in Wikipedia Git_(software) article, not repeating of\n> > >course what is in official Git Documentation/\n> > \n> > please go ahead and put a lot of the info that is in the GIT \n> > Documentation/ on the wiki. it's far easier to go to one site and browse \n> > around to find things then to run into issues where you have to go \n> > somewhere else (with different tools) to find the info.\n> > \n> > even if you just put all the documentation files there, as-is (as text \n> > files even, no hyperlinks in them) they should still be there.\n> \n> Then who will keep it in sync (BOTH ways)? That would be quite a lot of\n> work, I think.\n> \n> That said, having the documentation in a wiki is not a bad idea per se,\n> but you need to keep things consistent and converging. And I believe\n> (and hope) that killing Documentation/ directory is no option - I hate\n> it when documentation of software I installed just tells me \"look at\n> this URI\" (which documents a different version anyway, and it's all very\n> useful when I'm sitting in a train with my notebook).\n\nClearly the solution is a wiki with a git backend and asciidoc for the \nformatting language. Then the wiki just has to pull from kernel.org \noccasionally, and Junio can pull from the wiki's repository when there are \ngood changes there.\n\nI'm actually only somewhat joking; I wrote a Python CGI for this at one \npoint, and got as far as having it basically work, but then I couldn't \ncome up with a way to safely use asciidoc to format an attacker's file.\n\n\t-Daniel\n*This .sig left intentionally blank*\n"},{"id":"19490","messageId":"e3bjnb$72o$1@sea.gmane.org","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"20060504003518.GT27689@pasky.or.cz","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Revamped Git homepage","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2006-05-04T01:01:33Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-04T01:01:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Petr Baudis wrote:\n\n> Well, here we go, I've just uploaded a new version of the Git homepage;\n> I wonder how you feel about it now.\n> \n> Obviously, it still feels rather empty and I'm certainly not much of\n> a webmaster myself, but I take patches and pull requests; see\n> http://git.or.cz/community.html for the Git homepage git repository\n> information.\n> \n> I've borrowed Jonas Fonseca's ELinks homepage design first, but the\n> contents ended up almost entirely rewritten as well (except the Related\n> Tools section, which stayed mostly as it was). Git now poses as a real\n> version control system and the plumbing stuff is mentioned only in the\n> bottom paragraphs. ;-)\n\nVery nice, although earlier version had the advantage of having everything\non one page. I hope that no information was lost.\n\nWhat it lacks is the link in menu bar to Home (or News), \ni.e. http://git.or.cz/ or http://git.or.cz/index.html page.\n\nAbout Download page (http://git.or.cz/download.html) - it would be nice to\nhave in comments about firewalls told which port git uses for git://\nprotocol.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\n"},{"id":"19492","messageId":"20060504012323.GU27689@pasky.or.cz","threadId":"4027","inReplyTo":"e3bjnb$72o$1@sea.gmane.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Revamped Git homepage","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2006-05-04T01:23:23Z","receivedAt":"2006-05-04T01:23:23Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Dear diary, on Thu, May 04, 2006 at 03:01:33AM CEST, I got a letter\nwhere Jakub Narebski said that...\n> Very nice, although earlier version had the advantage of having everything\n> on one page. I hope that no information was lost.\n\nPerhaps few bits but I think they were insignificant or just confusing.\n:) (Like Cogito/StGit commands for cloning Git repository).\n\n> What it lacks is the link in menu bar to Home (or News), \n> i.e. http://git.or.cz/ or http://git.or.cz/index.html page.\n\nYou could get there clicking on the Git logo, but I agree that this\nwasn't very intuitive. I've added a link.\n\n> About Download page (http://git.or.cz/download.html) - it would be nice to\n> have in comments about firewalls told which port git uses for git://\n> protocol.\n\nGood idea, added.\n\n\nBy the way, it has been suggested on #git that it might be worth sharing\nthe same color scheme between gitweb and the homepage. I have tried it\nout but the gitweb's color scheme might be a bit too dull for the\nhomepage, dunno (I might also just already get too used to the bluish\ntheme). Opinions welcome. It's the \"Gitweb gray\" stylesheet (in Firefox,\nView -> Page style).\n\nThanks,\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nStuff: http://pasky.or.cz/\nRight now I am having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think\nI have forgotten this before.\n"}]}