{"thread":{"id":"36596","subject":"[PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","startedAt":"2014-05-07T10:03:07Z","lastAt":"2014-05-08T12:20:23Z","messageCount":13,"participants":["Felipe Contreras","Johan Herland","James Denholm","Matthieu Moy"],"isPatch":true,"patchVersion":1,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"240879","messageId":"1399456987-24156-1-git-send-email-felipe.contreras@gmail.com","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"[PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Felipe Contreras","fromEmail":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","sentAt":"2014-05-07T10:03:07Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T10:03:07Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/8358?v=4"},"body":"It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n\nSigned-off-by: Felipe Contreras \n---\n contrib/hooks/multimail/README | 6 +++---\n contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py | 2 +-\n contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config | 2 +-\n contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive | 2 +-\n contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py | 2 +-\n 5 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)\n\ndiff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/README b/contrib/hooks/multimail/README\nindex 477d65f..cf0bcb8 100644\n--- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/README\n+++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/README\n@@ -76,10 +76,10 @@ Requirements\n The example scripts invoke Python using the following shebang line\n (following PEP 394 [1]):\n \n- #! /usr/bin/env python2\n+ #! /usr/bin/env python\n \n- If your system's Python2 interpreter is not in your PATH or is not\n- called \"python2\", you can change the lines accordingly. Or you can\n+ If your system's Python interpreter is not in your PATH or is not\n+ called \"python\", you can change the lines accordingly. Or you can\n invoke the Python interpreter explicitly, for example via a tiny\n shell script like\n \ndiff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py b/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py\nindex 8b58ed6..f6dcdc6 100755\n--- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py\n+++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py\n@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n-#! /usr/bin/env python2\n+#! /usr/bin/env python\n \n # Copyright (c) 2012-2014 Michael Haggerty and others\n # Derived from contrib/hooks/post-receive-email, which is\ndiff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config b/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config\nindex 04eeaac..fba0b90 100755\n--- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config\n+++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config\n@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n-#! /usr/bin/env python2\n+#! /usr/bin/env python\n \n \"\"\"Migrate a post-receive-email configuration to be usable with git_multimail.py.\n \ndiff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive b/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive\nindex 4d46828..4f2cf9d 100755\n--- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive\n+++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive\n@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n-#! /usr/bin/env python2\n+#! /usr/bin/env python\n \n \"\"\"Example post-receive hook based on git-multimail.\n \ndiff --git a/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py b/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py\nindex 4e78a1c..bf20819 100755\n--- a/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py\n+++ b/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py\n@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n-#!/usr/bin/python\n+#!/usr/bin/env python\n \"\"\"\n Simulates svnrdump by replaying an existing dump from a file, taking care\n of the specified revision range.\n-- \n1.9.2+fc1.25.g15bd061\n"},{"id":"240881","messageId":"CALKQrgc=Xa767S8ZTTYnXjHTfLOg_fDG+aT4cVqpvx4HMhO03Q@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"1399456987-24156-1-git-send-email-felipe.contreras@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Johan Herland","fromEmail":"johan@herland.net","sentAt":"2014-05-07T10:27:14Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T10:27:14Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"johan@herland.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/547031?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Felipe Contreras\n wrote:\n> It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n\nOnly if they are source compatible with both Python2 and Python3. See\nPEP394 . Otherwise\n(for python2-only scripts) '/usr/bin/env python2' is the way to go.\n\n...Johan\n\n-- \nJohan Herland, \nwww.herland.net\n"},{"id":"240883","messageId":"536a14f9de982_675a167130cb4@nysa.notmuch","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"CALKQrgc=Xa767S8ZTTYnXjHTfLOg_fDG+aT4cVqpvx4HMhO03Q@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Felipe Contreras","fromEmail":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","sentAt":"2014-05-07T11:11:53Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T11:11:53Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/8358?v=4"},"body":"Johan Herland wrote:\n> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Felipe Contreras\n> wrote:\n> > It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n> \n> Only if they are source compatible with both Python2 and Python3. See\n> PEP394 . Otherwise\n> (for python2-only scripts) '/usr/bin/env python2' is the way to go.\n\nIt doesn't matter. People and aistributions have to change them anyway.\n\n-- \nFelipe Contreras\n"},{"id":"240886","messageId":"e5ca17b7-941d-40eb-abf1-2c0b8d79e79d@email.android.com","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"536a14f9de982_675a167130cb4@nysa.notmuch","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"James Denholm","fromEmail":"nod.helm@gmail.com","sentAt":"2014-05-07T12:03:48Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T12:03:48Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"nod.helm@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1721189?v=4"},"body":"On 7 May 2014 21:11:53 GMT+10:00, Felipe Contreras wrote:\n>Johan Herland wrote:\n>> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Felipe Contreras\n>> wrote:\n>> > It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n>> \n>> Only if they are source compatible with both Python2 and Python3. See\n>> PEP394 . Otherwise\n>> (for python2-only scripts) '/usr/bin/env python2' is the way to go.\n>\n>It doesn't matter. People and aistributions have to change them anyway.\n\nYeah, but they shouldn't have to. The build process is\nalready non-\"sane\", let's please not make it more so?\n\nMoving all instances of \"env python\" to be \"env python2\",\nthough, that I think is a reasonable solution (if this is even\nfelt to be a problem).\n\nRegards,\nJames Denholm.\n"},{"id":"240887","messageId":"CALKQrgefFQF-6ND9+wb8PXZs+vZMfqEdzgRieOYCUCGOs8u2-A@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"536a14f9de982_675a167130cb4@nysa.notmuch","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Johan Herland","fromEmail":"johan@herland.net","sentAt":"2014-05-07T12:28:59Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T12:28:59Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"johan@herland.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/547031?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Felipe Contreras\n wrote:\n> Johan Herland wrote:\n>> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Felipe Contreras\n>> wrote:\n>> > It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n>>\n>> Only if they are source compatible with both Python2 and Python3. See\n>> PEP394 . Otherwise\n>> (for python2-only scripts) '/usr/bin/env python2' is the way to go.\n>\n> It doesn't matter. People and aistributions have to change them anyway.\n\nNo, that's _exactly_ what PEP394 addresses. If we standardize on\n'/usr/bin/env python2' (I assume all our .py scripts are Python2) then\nthey should work on _all_ distros, and Arch Linux would not have to do\ntheir current python -> python2 hack (which you referred in another\nthread).\n\nIf we instead standardize on '/usr/bin/env python' instead, we only\nend up annoying forward-looking distros that (want to) enable python\n== python3 (but obviously also provide python2 for as long as\nnecessary).\n\n...Johan\n\n-- \nJohan Herland, \nwww.herland.net\n"},{"id":"240927","messageId":"vpqy4ydpiog.fsf@anie.imag.fr","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"1399456987-24156-1-git-send-email-felipe.contreras@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Matthieu Moy","fromEmail":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","sentAt":"2014-05-07T18:06:39Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T18:06:39Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/72c8a2705971a25dfaff23cece15130d405685845d911aedd5667ace277f3fc5?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Felipe Contreras writes:\n\n> It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n\nWhy?\n\nUsing python2 for git_multimail.py is a deliberate decision:\n\nhttps://github.com/mhagger/git-multimail/pull/2\n\n(also, contrib/hooks/multimail/README says:\n\n\"The git-multimail project itself is currently hosted on GitHub:\n\n https://github.com/mhagger/git-multimail\n\nWe use the GitHub issue tracker to keep track of bugs and feature\nrequests, and GitHub pull requests to exchange patches (though, if you\nprefer, you can send patches via the Git mailing list with cc to me).\nPlease sign off your patches as per the Git project practice.\"\n)\n\n> Signed-off-by: Felipe Contreras \n> ---\n> contrib/hooks/multimail/README | 6 +++---\n> contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py | 2 +-\n> contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config | 2 +-\n> contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive | 2 +-\n> contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py | 2 +-\n> 5 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)\n>\n> diff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/README b/contrib/hooks/multimail/README\n> index 477d65f..cf0bcb8 100644\n> --- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/README\n> +++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/README\n> @@ -76,10 +76,10 @@ Requirements\n> The example scripts invoke Python using the following shebang line\n> (following PEP 394 [1]):\n> \n> - #! /usr/bin/env python2\n> + #! /usr/bin/env python\n> \n> - If your system's Python2 interpreter is not in your PATH or is not\n> - called \"python2\", you can change the lines accordingly. Or you can\n> + If your system's Python interpreter is not in your PATH or is not\n> + called \"python\", you can change the lines accordingly. Or you can\n> invoke the Python interpreter explicitly, for example via a tiny\n> shell script like\n> \n> diff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py b/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py\n> index 8b58ed6..f6dcdc6 100755\n> --- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py\n> +++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/git_multimail.py\n> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n> -#! /usr/bin/env python2\n> +#! /usr/bin/env python\n> \n> # Copyright (c) 2012-2014 Michael Haggerty and others\n> # Derived from contrib/hooks/post-receive-email, which is\n> diff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config b/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config\n> index 04eeaac..fba0b90 100755\n> --- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config\n> +++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/migrate-mailhook-config\n> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n> -#! /usr/bin/env python2\n> +#! /usr/bin/env python\n> \n> \"\"\"Migrate a post-receive-email configuration to be usable with git_multimail.py.\n> \n> diff --git a/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive b/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive\n> index 4d46828..4f2cf9d 100755\n> --- a/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive\n> +++ b/contrib/hooks/multimail/post-receive\n> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n> -#! /usr/bin/env python2\n> +#! /usr/bin/env python\n> \n> \"\"\"Example post-receive hook based on git-multimail.\n> \n> diff --git a/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py b/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py\n> index 4e78a1c..bf20819 100755\n> --- a/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py\n> +++ b/contrib/svn-fe/svnrdump_sim.py\n> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@\n> -#!/usr/bin/python\n> +#!/usr/bin/env python\n> \"\"\"\n> Simulates svnrdump by replaying an existing dump from a file, taking care\n> of the specified revision range.\n\n\n\n-- \nMatthieu Moy\nhttp://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/\n"},{"id":"240937","messageId":"536a842838fbb_76ff7a52ec5d@nysa.notmuch","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"vpqy4ydpiog.fsf@anie.imag.fr","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Felipe Contreras","fromEmail":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","sentAt":"2014-05-07T19:06:16Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T19:06:16Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/8358?v=4"},"body":"Matthieu Moy wrote:\n> Felipe Contreras writes:\n> \n> > It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n> \n> Why?\n> \n> Using python2 for git_multimail.py is a deliberate decision:\n\nIf you want to use python2, then use '/usr/bin/env python2'.\n\n> \"The git-multimail project itself is currently hosted on GitHub:\n> \n> https://github.com/mhagger/git-multimail\n> \n> We use the GitHub issue tracker to keep track of bugs and feature\n> requests, and GitHub pull requests to exchange patches (though, if you\n> prefer, you can send patches via the Git mailing list with cc to me).\n> Please sign off your patches as per the Git project practice.\"\n> )\n\nIf you are going to follow practices different than git.git, then\nmultimail shouldn't live in 'contrib/'. Junio is already thretening to\nremove stuff out of contrib even when development behaves as the Git\ncore does, so it makes more sense for stuff that doesn't.\n\n-- \nFelipe Contreras\n"},{"id":"240945","messageId":"vpqr445nxrw.fsf@anie.imag.fr","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"536a842838fbb_76ff7a52ec5d@nysa.notmuch","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Matthieu Moy","fromEmail":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","sentAt":"2014-05-07T20:23:31Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T20:23:31Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/72c8a2705971a25dfaff23cece15130d405685845d911aedd5667ace277f3fc5?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Felipe Contreras writes:\n\n> Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>> Felipe Contreras writes:\n>> \n>> > It's better if all our scripts use the same '/usr/bin/env python'.\n>> \n>> Why?\n>> \n>> Using python2 for git_multimail.py is a deliberate decision:\n>\n> If you want to use python2, then use '/usr/bin/env python2'.\n\nErr, yes, this is what the code does before your patch.\n\n>> \"The git-multimail project itself is currently hosted on GitHub:\n>> \n>> https://github.com/mhagger/git-multimail\n>> \n>> We use the GitHub issue tracker to keep track of bugs and feature\n>> requests, and GitHub pull requests to exchange patches (though, if you\n>> prefer, you can send patches via the Git mailing list with cc to me).\n>> Please sign off your patches as per the Git project practice.\"\n>> )\n>\n> If you are going to follow practices different than git.git, then\n> multimail shouldn't live in 'contrib/'.\n\ngit-multimail is not the only part of git.git that has a separate\nmaintainer. Same goes for git-gui and gitk.\n\n-- \nMatthieu Moy\nhttp://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/\n"},{"id":"240956","messageId":"536a9a34e8194_76ff7a52ec7f@nysa.notmuch","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"vpqr445nxrw.fsf@anie.imag.fr","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Felipe Contreras","fromEmail":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","sentAt":"2014-05-07T20:40:20Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T20:40:20Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"felipe.contreras@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/8358?v=4"},"body":"Matthieu Moy wrote:\n> Felipe Contreras writes:\n> > If you want to use python2, then use '/usr/bin/env python2'.\n> \n> Err, yes, this is what the code does before your patch.\n\nNot for all the instances.\n\n> > If you are going to follow practices different than git.git, then\n> > multimail shouldn't live in 'contrib/'.\n> \n> git-multimail is not the only part of git.git that has a separate\n> maintainer. Same goes for git-gui and gitk.\n\nThey are not part of contrib.\n\n-- \nFelipe Contreras\n"},{"id":"240961","messageId":"vpq1tw5nw7q.fsf@anie.imag.fr","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"536a9a34e8194_76ff7a52ec7f@nysa.notmuch","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Matthieu Moy","fromEmail":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","sentAt":"2014-05-07T20:57:13Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T20:57:13Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/72c8a2705971a25dfaff23cece15130d405685845d911aedd5667ace277f3fc5?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Felipe Contreras writes:\n\n> Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>> Felipe Contreras writes:\n>> > If you want to use python2, then use '/usr/bin/env python2'.\n>> \n>> Err, yes, this is what the code does before your patch.\n>\n> Not for all the instances.\n\nWell, I guess not all scripts require python2, hence not all scripts\ndeclare that they depend on python2.\n\nAnd anyway, I don't see how changing python2 to python in git-multimail\nsolves any problem.\n\n-- \nMatthieu Moy\nhttp://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/\n"},{"id":"240972","messageId":"d15f06ad-0418-48ed-a9dc-6ca1e955e75c@email.android.com","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"vpq1tw5nw7q.fsf@anie.imag.fr","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"James Denholm","fromEmail":"nod.helm@gmail.com","sentAt":"2014-05-07T22:19:15Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-07T22:19:15Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"nod.helm@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1721189?v=4"},"body":"On 8 May 2014 06:57:13 GMT+10:00, Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>Felipe Contreras writes:\n>\n>> Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>>> Felipe Contreras writes:\n>>> > If you want to use python2, then use '/usr/bin/env python2'.\n>>> \n>>> Err, yes, this is what the code does before your patch.\n>>\n>> Not for all the instances.\n>\n>Well, I guess not all scripts require python2, hence not all scripts\n>declare that they depend on python2.\n\nDoes it make sense for git to have a strict subset of python scripts as\nversion agnostic, though? Given that some scripts depend on python2\nalready, and hence we know that the user has python2, and these scripts\nrun perfectly well on python2, why not mandate that the agnostic subset\nbe run on python2?\n\nRegards,\nJames Denholm.\n"},{"id":"241005","messageId":"vpqlhucmqxt.fsf@anie.imag.fr","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"d15f06ad-0418-48ed-a9dc-6ca1e955e75c@email.android.com","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Matthieu Moy","fromEmail":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","sentAt":"2014-05-08T11:48:46Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-08T11:48:46Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/72c8a2705971a25dfaff23cece15130d405685845d911aedd5667ace277f3fc5?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"James Denholm writes:\n\n> On 8 May 2014 06:57:13 GMT+10:00, Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>>Felipe Contreras writes:\n>>\n>>> Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>>>> Felipe Contreras writes:\n>>>> > If you want to use python2, then use '/usr/bin/env python2'.\n>>>> \n>>>> Err, yes, this is what the code does before your patch.\n>>>\n>>> Not for all the instances.\n>>\n>>Well, I guess not all scripts require python2, hence not all scripts\n>>declare that they depend on python2.\n>\n> Does it make sense for git to have a strict subset of python scripts as\n> version agnostic, though? Given that some scripts depend on python2\n> already, and hence we know that the user has python2,\n\nNo, we don't. People do not have to use _all_ Python scripts. The\ndiscussion started about git-multimail.py, which I use on a server which\ndoesn't have python3, while my desktop (where I use other Git commands)\nhas Python3.\n\nIt is very important that git-multimail keeps running with Python2\n(ideally, it could be portable Python 2 or 3, but it's not so easy to\ndo), but that would be strange to force even non-git-multimail-users to\nuse Python2 for that.\n\n-- \nMatthieu Moy\nhttp://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/\n"},{"id":"241006","messageId":"CALKQrgevDwtjF9Thi9xV6M=Os4mZMwf9JhYecJB4c0-SOJq33A@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"36596","inReplyTo":"vpqlhucmqxt.fsf@anie.imag.fr","subject":"Re: [PATCH] Standardize python shebangs","fromName":"Johan Herland","fromEmail":"johan@herland.net","sentAt":"2014-05-08T12:20:23Z","receivedAt":"2014-05-08T12:20:23Z","isPatch":true,"sender":{"key":"johan@herland.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/547031?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Matthieu Moy\n wrote:\n> It is very important that git-multimail keeps running with Python2\n> (ideally, it could be portable Python 2 or 3, but it's not so easy to\n> do), but that would be strange to force even non-git-multimail-users to\n> use Python2 for that.\n\nFWIW, the rules laid out in PEP394 should be very easy to follow:\n\n - If your script is Python2-only, use \"#!/usr/bin/env python2\"\n - If your script is Python3-only, use \"#!/usr/bin/env python3\"\n - If your script is Python2/3-agnostic, use \"#!/usr/bin/env python\"\n\n...Johan\n\n-- \nJohan Herland, \nwww.herland.net\n"}]}