{"thread":{"id":"35512","subject":"Ubuntu may break Git upstream translations","startedAt":"2013-12-10T09:56:19Z","lastAt":"2013-12-10T13:39:01Z","messageCount":4,"participants":["Jiang Xin","David Rodríguez de Dios","Dimitri John Ledkov"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"231849","messageId":"CANYiYbF--_51hJmp=28ucwBa6YEuUn97kTAd87POuqrD4SU5gw@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"35512","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Ubuntu may break Git upstream translations","fromName":"Jiang Xin","fromEmail":"worldhello.net@gmail.com","sentAt":"2013-12-10T09:56:19Z","receivedAt":"2013-12-10T09:56:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"worldhello.net@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/183860?v=4"},"body":"Hi all,\n\nDavid find a typo in Spanish translations of Git, and ask me how\nto contribute, because he cannot find Spanish translations in\nGit source code. To my surprise, I cannot find either.\n\nLater I find out that David using Ubuntu (I use debian instead),\nand Ubuntu reinvent the wheel. Ubuntu has its own translation\nplatform, and releases Git translations not with Git package\nitself, but releases Git translations in separate language\nspecific packages. E.g. Spanish translations on Git is released\nin package \"language-pack-es-base\". This language specific\npackage includes not only Git translations, but also translations\nof over 200 other packages.\n\nURL of Ubuntu translation homepage on Git:\n\n* https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git\n\nVersion of Git in Ubuntu Saucy (13.10) is 1.8.3.2, but obviously\nthe translations are based on git v1.8.0 (8 months older than\nv1.8.3.2). That's why even Ubuntu provides git translations\nin 21 different languages, but only 2 of them are 100% translated.\nWe (Git upstream) provide Git translations in only 7 languages,\nbut 5 of them are 100% translated now.\n\nWithout context, it's hard to translate well. And contribute to\nupstream will benefit to more people than contribute to one\nspecific Linux distribution.\n\nI cc this mail to Paco, the creator of Spanish translations for\nGit I found in this page:\n\n* https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git/es/+details\n\nPaco may have interest on David's question.\n\nI also send this mail to Dimitri, the owner of Git translations\nfor Ubuntu, for reference.\n\n2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>\n>> El lun 09 dic 2013 16:33:44 CET, Jiang Xin escribió:\n>>>\n>>> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>>\n>>>> El lun 09 dic 2013 15:59:12 CET, Jiang Xin escribió:\n>>>>\n>>>>> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> Hi Jiang Xin!\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> I want to contribute to the Spanish translation by fixing a typo\n>>>>>> but I can't find the translation. Where is it?\n>>>>>\n>>>>> All available translations are in \"po/\" directory of Git, such as\n>>>>> po/de.po, po/pt_PT.po, etc. And all l10n teams, maintainers\n>>>>>  and locations of the official repositories are listed in \"po/TEAMS\" file.\n>>>>>\n>>>>> I can't find a Spanish translation either, but there is a Portuguese\n>>>>> translation and the maintainer is Marco Sousa.\n>>>>>\n>>>>> I don't know how much differences between Spanish and Portuguese.\n>>>>> Maybe the typo you found is belongs to \"po/pt_PT.po\"?\n>>>>>\n>>>>\n>>>> No way... My \"git\" is translated into Spanish, that's why it\n>>>> surprises me that the translation is not there...\n>>>>\n>>>\n>>> What's your platform? version of your platform? git --version?\n>>> And what's the output message (with the typo you found)?\n>>> Maybe we could \"git grep\" in Git source code or google the output\n>>> message.\n>>>\n>> So\n>>\n>> $ uname -a\n>> Linux pantani 3.11.0-14-generic #21-Ubuntu SMP Tue Nov 12 17:07:40 UTC\n>> 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux\n>>\n>> $ git --version\n>> git version 1.8.3.2\n>>\n>> $ locale\n>> LANG=es_ES.UTF-8\n>> LANGUAGE=es_ES\n>> LC_CTYPE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_NUMERIC=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_TIME=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_COLLATE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_MONETARY=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_MESSAGES=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_PAPER=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_NAME=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_ADDRESS=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_TELEPHONE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_MEASUREMENT=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_IDENTIFICATION=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>> LC_ALL=\n>>\n>> I've downloaded git sources with\n>> $ apt-get source git\n>> $ apt-get source git-core\n>> ...\n>>\n>> and grep the string, nothing. I've also forked the git repo and grep\n>> and nothing either.\n>>\n>> The message is\n>> msgid \"\"\n>> \"  (use \\\"git checkout -- <file>...\\\" to discard changes in working\n>> directory)\"\n>>\n> Oh, and the incorrect message I'm getting is\n>\n> #   (use «git checkout -- <archivo>...« para descartar cambios en le\n> directorio de trabajo)\n>\n>\n> El lun 09 dic 2013 16:45:17 CET, David Rodríguez de Dios escribió:\n>\n\n--\nJiang Xin\n"},{"id":"231850","messageId":"52A6E7DF.5070504@gmail.com","threadId":"35512","inReplyTo":"CANYiYbF--_51hJmp=28ucwBa6YEuUn97kTAd87POuqrD4SU5gw@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Ubuntu may break Git upstream translations","fromName":"David Rodríguez de Dios","fromEmail":"deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com","sentAt":"2013-12-10T10:07:27Z","receivedAt":"2013-12-10T10:07:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/a1cc6e0d09fa7ad750142933abbcc225b647baa36e04fedda00fad1eb2e7a0e1?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"I agree with Jiang.\n\nWe should join translation efforts. And in this case, the best place to \ndo it is upstream.\n\nEl mar 10 dic 2013 10:56:19 CET, Jiang Xin escribió:\n> Hi all,\n>\n> David find a typo in Spanish translations of Git, and ask me how\n> to contribute, because he cannot find Spanish translations in\n> Git source code. To my surprise, I cannot find either.\n>\n> Later I find out that David using Ubuntu (I use debian instead),\n> and Ubuntu reinvent the wheel. Ubuntu has its own translation\n> platform, and releases Git translations not with Git package\n> itself, but releases Git translations in separate language\n> specific packages. E.g. Spanish translations on Git is released\n> in package \"language-pack-es-base\". This language specific\n> package includes not only Git translations, but also translations\n> of over 200 other packages.\n>\n> URL of Ubuntu translation homepage on Git:\n>\n> * https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git\n>\n> Version of Git in Ubuntu Saucy (13.10) is 1.8.3.2, but obviously\n> the translations are based on git v1.8.0 (8 months older than\n> v1.8.3.2). That's why even Ubuntu provides git translations\n> in 21 different languages, but only 2 of them are 100% translated.\n> We (Git upstream) provide Git translations in only 7 languages,\n> but 5 of them are 100% translated now.\n>\n> Without context, it's hard to translate well. And contribute to\n> upstream will benefit to more people than contribute to one\n> specific Linux distribution.\n>\n> I cc this mail to Paco, the creator of Spanish translations for\n> Git I found in this page:\n>\n> * https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git/es/+details\n>\n> Paco may have interest on David's question.\n>\n> I also send this mail to Dimitri, the owner of Git translations\n> for Ubuntu, for reference.\n>\n> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>\n>>> El lun 09 dic 2013 16:33:44 CET, Jiang Xin escribió:\n>>>>\n>>>> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>>>\n>>>>> El lun 09 dic 2013 15:59:12 CET, Jiang Xin escribió:\n>>>>>\n>>>>>> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>>>>>>\n>>>>>>> Hi Jiang Xin!\n>>>>>>>\n>>>>>>> I want to contribute to the Spanish translation by fixing a typo\n>>>>>>> but I can't find the translation. Where is it?\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> All available translations are in \"po/\" directory of Git, such as\n>>>>>> po/de.po, po/pt_PT.po, etc. And all l10n teams, maintainers\n>>>>>>   and locations of the official repositories are listed in \"po/TEAMS\" file.\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> I can't find a Spanish translation either, but there is a Portuguese\n>>>>>> translation and the maintainer is Marco Sousa.\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> I don't know how much differences between Spanish and Portuguese.\n>>>>>> Maybe the typo you found is belongs to \"po/pt_PT.po\"?\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>\n>>>>> No way... My \"git\" is translated into Spanish, that's why it\n>>>>> surprises me that the translation is not there...\n>>>>>\n>>>>\n>>>> What's your platform? version of your platform? git --version?\n>>>> And what's the output message (with the typo you found)?\n>>>> Maybe we could \"git grep\" in Git source code or google the output\n>>>> message.\n>>>>\n>>> So\n>>>\n>>> $ uname -a\n>>> Linux pantani 3.11.0-14-generic #21-Ubuntu SMP Tue Nov 12 17:07:40 UTC\n>>> 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux\n>>>\n>>> $ git --version\n>>> git version 1.8.3.2\n>>>\n>>> $ locale\n>>> LANG=es_ES.UTF-8\n>>> LANGUAGE=es_ES\n>>> LC_CTYPE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_NUMERIC=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_TIME=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_COLLATE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_MONETARY=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_MESSAGES=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_PAPER=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_NAME=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_ADDRESS=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_TELEPHONE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_MEASUREMENT=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_IDENTIFICATION=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_ALL=\n>>>\n>>> I've downloaded git sources with\n>>> $ apt-get source git\n>>> $ apt-get source git-core\n>>> ...\n>>>\n>>> and grep the string, nothing. I've also forked the git repo and grep\n>>> and nothing either.\n>>>\n>>> The message is\n>>> msgid \"\"\n>>> \"  (use \\\"git checkout -- <file>...\\\" to discard changes in working\n>>> directory)\"\n>>>\n>> Oh, and the incorrect message I'm getting is\n>>\n>> #   (use «git checkout -- <archivo>...« para descartar cambios en le\n>> directorio de trabajo)\n>>\n>>\n>> El lun 09 dic 2013 16:45:17 CET, David Rodríguez de Dios escribió:\n>>\n>\n> --\n> Jiang Xin\n"},{"id":"231852","messageId":"CAA0ZMxhYounVC0_mpMmty=wbh5fPmG0+=da9pQQ9i0UnciRY8Q@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"35512","inReplyTo":"CANYiYbF--_51hJmp=28ucwBa6YEuUn97kTAd87POuqrD4SU5gw@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Ubuntu may break Git upstream translations","fromName":"Dimitri John Ledkov","fromEmail":"dimitri.ledkov@canonical.com","sentAt":"2013-12-10T10:52:39Z","receivedAt":"2013-12-10T10:52:39Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dimitri.ledkov@canonical.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hello all,\n\nOn Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Jiang Xin <worldhello.net@gmail.com> wrote:\n> Hi all,\n>\n> David find a typo in Spanish translations of Git, and ask me how\n> to contribute, because he cannot find Spanish translations in\n> Git source code. To my surprise, I cannot find either.\n>\n> Later I find out that David using Ubuntu (I use debian instead),\n> and Ubuntu reinvent the wheel. Ubuntu has its own translation\n> platform, and releases Git translations not with Git package\n> itself, but releases Git translations in separate language\n> specific packages. E.g. Spanish translations on Git is released\n> in package \"language-pack-es-base\". This language specific\n> package includes not only Git translations, but also translations\n> of over 200 other packages.\n>\n> URL of Ubuntu translation homepage on Git:\n>\n> * https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git\n>\n> Version of Git in Ubuntu Saucy (13.10) is 1.8.3.2, but obviously\n> the translations are based on git v1.8.0 (8 months older than\n> v1.8.3.2). That's why even Ubuntu provides git translations\n> in 21 different languages, but only 2 of them are 100% translated.\n> We (Git upstream) provide Git translations in only 7 languages,\n> but 5 of them are 100% translated now.\n>\n> Without context, it's hard to translate well. And contribute to\n> upstream will benefit to more people than contribute to one\n> specific Linux distribution.\n>\n> I cc this mail to Paco, the creator of Spanish translations for\n> Git I found in this page:\n>\n> * https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git/es/+details\n>\n> Paco may have interest on David's question.\n>\n> I also send this mail to Dimitri, the owner of Git translations\n> for Ubuntu, for reference.\n>\n\nUbuntu is a distribution which does have a wide variety of users.\nTypically users use stable releases, or even LTS releases (every 2\nyears). Given different schedules across all projects, naturally\nUbuntu ships a snapshots across all packages available at the time. On\nthe other hand our users and translators expect to be able\ncontinuously improve & provide translations across a wide snapshot of\npackages. Therefore in the beginning of the Ubuntu project\ntranslations from all core packages (those that are in the \"main\"\nportion of the archive) were imported into the launchpad translation\ncomponent. Ubuntu translation teams can update translations using the\nweb interface, contributing from one string or all of them. All new\ntranslations done in launchpad, are done under permissive BSD license\nand are shared across the infrastructure, such that translators get\nhelpful suggestions and don't have translate the same term over again\n(and/or different from how it's used across the operating system).\nThese translations do not require one to know version control systems,\nupstream, mailing lists. But those translation updates are pushed out\nautomatically to the users at point releases (or more often, if\nmanually triggered). You can see the translation statistics for Ubuntu\n12.04 LTS at [1]\n\nAll of these translations are done in good faith. Or at times by\nfrustrated users that cannot see something in their own language and\ncan't take for an answer \"contribute upstream, wait for new release,\nwait for that to be packaged & upgrade to new release to get them\".\n\nNaturally, maintenance cost of translations downstream is significant.\nAnd where possible we do try to redirect translators upstream. E.g.\nthere are good translators links / cooperation to Debian (package\ndescriptions, debconf question templates), d-i, GNOME, etc.\n\nIn an ideal world there would be enough community developer to manual\nhandle all new translations and redirect / introduce them to\nupstreams. Unfortunately that is not the case. And on behalf of the\nUbuntu project, I do apologize for any inconvenience caused. But\nplease do, try to understand the distribution perspective on the\noverall problem with localisation and internationalization.\n\nAs usual with any Distribution originated bugs, they should be filed\nwith the distribution. For git package in Ubuntu that would be by\nexecuting on the command line $ ubuntu-bug git, or via launchpad\nwebsite at http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/git/+filebug?no-redirect\n. Again I apologize that a distribution induced bug report arrived\ndirect to upstream, instead being filtered in the distribution.\n\nAbout this specific template. I believe I'm listed as \"the owner\"\nsimply because i was the last one to trigger package upload, and thus\nupstream translation templates import (by the looks of things by\nsyncing the package from Debian). Upstream translations always take\nprecedence.\n\nNaturally git/master evolves, and strings are added/removed/changed\nand thus translations do \"bit-rot\", none-the-less I hope there are\ntranslations in launchpad that would still be relevant. An export\ntarball in po/pot format can be requested for both currently\ntranslatable git source package templates [2,3], which i have now done\nand uploaded to a publically accessible location [4]. It of-course\nneeds further analysis / merging into git/master. Is there a\ntranslation platform used to manage git translations? Do note that\ntarballs have a mixture of upstream originated translations and\nlaunchpad contributed. They are not my copyright, but copyright of the\nrespective translators, contributed under a permissive BSD license.\n\nI'm not involved in neither Launchpad Translations nor Ubuntu\nTranslations. I am simply a Debian Developer and an Ubuntu Core\nDeveloper. I will get in touch with our translation & community\ncoordinators to see how it is best to forward translations to git\nupstream.\n\nIn general, any technical inquiries about Ubuntu project can be\ndirected to ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com [5] for a fast\nresponse by most relevant people involved.\n\n[1] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise\n[2] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git-gui/+export\n[3] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/git/+pots/git/+export\n[4] http://people.canonical.com/~xnox/git-i18n/\n[5] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss\n\nRegards,\n\nDimitri.\n\n> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>\n>>> El lun 09 dic 2013 16:33:44 CET, Jiang Xin escribió:\n>>>>\n>>>> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>>>\n>>>>> El lun 09 dic 2013 15:59:12 CET, Jiang Xin escribió:\n>>>>>\n>>>>>> 2013/12/9 David Rodríguez de Dios <deivid.rodriguez@gmail.com>:\n>>>>>>>\n>>>>>>> Hi Jiang Xin!\n>>>>>>>\n>>>>>>> I want to contribute to the Spanish translation by fixing a typo\n>>>>>>> but I can't find the translation. Where is it?\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> All available translations are in \"po/\" directory of Git, such as\n>>>>>> po/de.po, po/pt_PT.po, etc. And all l10n teams, maintainers\n>>>>>>  and locations of the official repositories are listed in \"po/TEAMS\" file.\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> I can't find a Spanish translation either, but there is a Portuguese\n>>>>>> translation and the maintainer is Marco Sousa.\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>> I don't know how much differences between Spanish and Portuguese.\n>>>>>> Maybe the typo you found is belongs to \"po/pt_PT.po\"?\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>\n>>>>> No way... My \"git\" is translated into Spanish, that's why it\n>>>>> surprises me that the translation is not there...\n>>>>>\n>>>>\n>>>> What's your platform? version of your platform? git --version?\n>>>> And what's the output message (with the typo you found)?\n>>>> Maybe we could \"git grep\" in Git source code or google the output\n>>>> message.\n>>>>\n>>> So\n>>>\n>>> $ uname -a\n>>> Linux pantani 3.11.0-14-generic #21-Ubuntu SMP Tue Nov 12 17:07:40 UTC\n>>> 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux\n>>>\n>>> $ git --version\n>>> git version 1.8.3.2\n>>>\n>>> $ locale\n>>> LANG=es_ES.UTF-8\n>>> LANGUAGE=es_ES\n>>> LC_CTYPE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_NUMERIC=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_TIME=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_COLLATE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_MONETARY=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_MESSAGES=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_PAPER=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_NAME=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_ADDRESS=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_TELEPHONE=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_MEASUREMENT=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_IDENTIFICATION=\"es_ES.UTF-8\"\n>>> LC_ALL=\n>>>\n>>> I've downloaded git sources with\n>>> $ apt-get source git\n>>> $ apt-get source git-core\n>>> ...\n>>>\n>>> and grep the string, nothing. I've also forked the git repo and grep\n>>> and nothing either.\n>>>\n>>> The message is\n>>> msgid \"\"\n>>> \"  (use \\\"git checkout -- <file>...\\\" to discard changes in working\n>>> directory)\"\n>>>\n>> Oh, and the incorrect message I'm getting is\n>>\n>> #   (use «git checkout -- <archivo>...« para descartar cambios en le\n>> directorio de trabajo)\n>>\n>>\n>> El lun 09 dic 2013 16:45:17 CET, David Rodríguez de Dios escribió:\n>>\n>\n> --\n> Jiang Xin\n"},{"id":"231855","messageId":"CANYiYbHgY298yKdfQOB7wDo-U-E1MuywCJ1T2B3fvdMeyFuLsw@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"35512","inReplyTo":"CAA0ZMxhYounVC0_mpMmty=wbh5fPmG0+=da9pQQ9i0UnciRY8Q@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Ubuntu may break Git upstream translations","fromName":"Jiang Xin","fromEmail":"worldhello.net@gmail.com","sentAt":"2013-12-10T13:39:01Z","receivedAt":"2013-12-10T13:39:01Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"worldhello.net@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/183860?v=4"},"body":"2013/12/10 Dimitri John Ledkov <dimitri.ledkov@canonical.com>:\n> Hello all,\n>\n> Ubuntu is a distribution which does have a wide variety of users.\n> Typically users use stable releases, or even LTS releases (every 2\n> years). Given different schedules across all projects, naturally\n> Ubuntu ships a snapshots across all packages available at the time. On\n> the other hand our users and translators expect to be able\n> continuously improve & provide translations across a wide snapshot of\n> packages. Therefore in the beginning of the Ubuntu project\n> translations from all core packages (those that are in the \"main\"\n> portion of the archive) were imported into the launchpad translation\n> component. Ubuntu translation teams can update translations using the\n> web interface, contributing from one string or all of them. All new\n> translations done in launchpad, are done under permissive BSD license\n> and are shared across the infrastructure, such that translators get\n> helpful suggestions and don't have translate the same term over again\n> (and/or different from how it's used across the operating system).\n> These translations do not require one to know version control systems,\n> upstream, mailing lists. But those translation updates are pushed out\n> automatically to the users at point releases (or more often, if\n> manually triggered). You can see the translation statistics for Ubuntu\n> 12.04 LTS at [1]\n>\n> All of these translations are done in good faith. Or at times by\n> frustrated users that cannot see something in their own language and\n> can't take for an answer \"contribute upstream, wait for new release,\n> wait for that to be packaged & upgrade to new release to get them\".\n>\n\nThank you for the quick response. I understand that\n\n1. release of l10n things in separate package will help Ubuntu to\n    improve l10n continuously, without recompiling the whole\n    package (Git or others). This may save bandwidth when user\n    upgrade.\n\n2. bundle l10n things of hundreds of packages for one specific\n    language in one package, will save disk usages a bit for users.\n    Because user will only install the prefer language, won't\n    install l10n things for other languages.\n\nThat's OK.\n\n> Naturally, maintenance cost of translations downstream is significant.\n> And where possible we do try to redirect translators upstream. E.g.\n> there are good translators links / cooperation to Debian (package\n> descriptions, debconf question templates), d-i, GNOME, etc.\n>\n> In an ideal world there would be enough community developer to manual\n> handle all new translations and redirect / introduce them to\n> upstreams. Unfortunately that is not the case. And on behalf of the\n> Ubuntu project, I do apologize for any inconvenience caused. But\n> please do, try to understand the distribution perspective on the\n> overall problem with localisation and internationalization.\n>\n\nWhat makes Debian/Ubuntu outstanding? I believe it is the apt\npackage management system. It's easy to write a debian package,\nand quilt patches are upstream-friendly. I mean using quilt\ncommands (such quilt push, quilt pop, quilt refresh,...), patches\ncan upgrade to the new upstream easily.\n\nBut Ubuntu l10n things are not upstream friendly, substitute\nupstream l10n things instead of patching. The word patching\nhere, not means using quilt patches. Since Ubuntu has a\nlarge database full of break down msg-ids, and each break\ndown msg-id has its upstream translation and Ubuntu translation,\nyour Ubuntu guys can invent your own patching system.\nE.g. Generate your new custom \".po\" file based on a fresh\nupstream template using 3-way merge (prefer upstream\nchange), and then substitute upstream with yours.\n\n\n-- \nJiang Xin\n"}]}