{"thread":{"id":"25633","subject":"can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","startedAt":"2010-11-04T00:45:30Z","lastAt":"2010-11-04T10:00:45Z","messageCount":7,"participants":["MDellerus","Kevin Ballard","Matthieu Moy","Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason","Jakub Narebski"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"155102","messageId":"loom.20101104T014408-903@post.gmane.org","threadId":"25633","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","fromName":"MDellerus","fromEmail":"mdellerus@yahoo.com","sentAt":"2010-11-04T00:45:30Z","receivedAt":"2010-11-04T00:45:30Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mdellerus@yahoo.com","avatar":null},"body":"I have a co-worker who has suggested that, using \"svnadmin hotcopy\", subversion \ncan be\n just as \"distributed\" a system as Git\n\nWhile I see how this can be done, it hardly seems to me to qualify as \"just as\", \nmaking this \"plausible\" at best.\n\nCan anyone give me a quick confirmation of this? Confirmed? Plausible? Busted?\n\nIf this is confirmed or plausible, could someone give me a quick run-down?\n\n(I would appreciate a response, no matter how long it takes, but I do have a \nmeeting with this co-worker in another 16 hours... (10am Pacific).)\n\nThanks in advance!\n\n(FYI - I have cross-posted this, just once, to an SVN forum, in the event they \nmight have a different opinion.)\n"},{"id":"155104","messageId":"BF8EE51A-AFE4-4EBA-82E8-4A8B32678FBF@sb.org","threadId":"25633","inReplyTo":"loom.20101104T014408-903@post.gmane.org","subject":"Re: can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","fromName":"Kevin Ballard","fromEmail":"kevin@sb.org","sentAt":"2010-11-04T00:58:29Z","receivedAt":"2010-11-04T00:58:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"kevin@sb.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/714?v=4"},"body":"Using \"svnadmin hotcopy\" you could certainly get your own local repo, but I fail to\nsee how you could easily join your history up with someone else's history using this\nmechanism. If you really want to use SVN in a distributed manner, I would recommend\nyou simply use SVK.\n\n-Kevin Ballard\n\nOn Nov 3, 2010, at 5:45 PM, MDellerus wrote:\n\n> I have a co-worker who has suggested that, using \"svnadmin hotcopy\", subversion \n> can be\n> just as \"distributed\" a system as Git\n> \n> While I see how this can be done, it hardly seems to me to qualify as \"just as\", \n> making this \"plausible\" at best.\n> \n> Can anyone give me a quick confirmation of this? Confirmed? Plausible? Busted?\n> \n> If this is confirmed or plausible, could someone give me a quick run-down?\n> \n> (I would appreciate a response, no matter how long it takes, but I do have a \n> meeting with this co-worker in another 16 hours... (10am Pacific).)\n> \n> Thanks in advance!\n> \n> (FYI - I have cross-posted this, just once, to an SVN forum, in the event they \n> might have a different opinion.)\n> \n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n"},{"id":"155140","messageId":"vpqy699xyum.fsf@bauges.imag.fr","threadId":"25633","inReplyTo":"BF8EE51A-AFE4-4EBA-82E8-4A8B32678FBF@sb.org","subject":"Re: can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","fromName":"Matthieu Moy","fromEmail":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","sentAt":"2010-11-04T08:44:01Z","receivedAt":"2010-11-04T08:44:01Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/72c8a2705971a25dfaff23cece15130d405685845d911aedd5667ace277f3fc5?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Kevin Ballard writes:\n\n> Using \"svnadmin hotcopy\" you could certainly get your own local repo, but I fail to\n> see how you could easily join your history up with someone else's history using this\n> mechanism. If you really want to use SVN in a distributed manner, I would recommend\n> you simply use SVK.\n\nRight. Branching is the easy part. Merging is the hard and important\none.\n\n-- \nMatthieu Moy\nhttp://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/\n"},{"id":"155147","messageId":"AANLkTim0N99M488k3vR5zVDkZv7Wz-08hRwdy0jaHh4c@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"25633","inReplyTo":"BF8EE51A-AFE4-4EBA-82E8-4A8B32678FBF@sb.org","subject":"Re: can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","fromName":"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason","fromEmail":"avarab@gmail.com","sentAt":"2010-11-04T09:26:16Z","receivedAt":"2010-11-04T09:26:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"avarab@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45301?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 01:58, Kevin Ballard wrote:\n> Using \"svnadmin hotcopy\" you could certainly get your own local repo, but I fail to\n> see how you could easily join your history up with someone else's history using this\n> mechanism. If you really want to use SVN in a distributed manner, I would recommend\n> you simply use SVK.\n\nSVK gives you *disconnected* SVN, not distributed. You still can't\n(easily) share your\nuncommited revisions with others. It just solves the problem of you\nbeing on a plane\nfor a few hours. It doesn't turn SVN into Git.\n"},{"id":"155149","messageId":"EE766BAE-E930-46EB-BB89-FE83C7597169@sb.org","threadId":"25633","inReplyTo":"AANLkTim0N99M488k3vR5zVDkZv7Wz-08hRwdy0jaHh4c@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","fromName":"Kevin Ballard","fromEmail":"kevin@sb.org","sentAt":"2010-11-04T09:27:26Z","receivedAt":"2010-11-04T09:27:26Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"kevin@sb.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/714?v=4"},"body":"On Nov 4, 2010, at 2:26 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:\n\n> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 01:58, Kevin Ballard wrote:\n>> Using \"svnadmin hotcopy\" you could certainly get your own local repo, but I fail to\n>> see how you could easily join your history up with someone else's history using this\n>> mechanism. If you really want to use SVN in a distributed manner, I would recommend\n>> you simply use SVK.\n> \n> SVK gives you *disconnected* SVN, not distributed. You still can't\n> (easily) share your\n> uncommited revisions with others. It just solves the problem of you\n> being on a plane\n> for a few hours. It doesn't turn SVN into Git.\n\nSVK bills itself as providing distributed patches, and calls itself \"A Distributed\nVersion Control System\". I do agree that it's mainly useful for using SVN in a\ndisconnected mode, but I trust that there's at least some facility for sharing\nlocal branches with other SVK users, though I've certainly never done that myself.\n\n-Kevin Ballard"},{"id":"155150","messageId":"AANLkTin1R8+N=TG2fhc1UdzT6G65JB1awrw+Q8xY7uBA@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"25633","inReplyTo":"loom.20101104T014408-903@post.gmane.org","subject":"Re: can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","fromName":"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason","fromEmail":"avarab@gmail.com","sentAt":"2010-11-04T09:35:11Z","receivedAt":"2010-11-04T09:35:11Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"avarab@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45301?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 01:45, MDellerus wrote:\n\n> I have a co-worker who has suggested that, using \"svnadmin hotcopy\",\n> subversion can be just as \"distributed\" a system as Git\n>\n> While I see how this can be done, it hardly seems to me to qualify as \"just as\",\n> making this \"plausible\" at best.\n>\n> Can anyone give me a quick confirmation of this?  Confirmed? Plausible? Busted?\n>\n> If this is confirmed or plausible, could someone give me a quick run-down?\n\nThe problem here seems to be that your coworker took \"distributed\"\nliterally.\n\nWhen we talk about \"distributed version control systems\" we don't just\nmean that the raw copy of the complete revision history is\ndistributed (although that's also included).\n\nIf that was the case packing up the ,v files on a CVS server or\ndistributing a \"svnadmin dump\" would give you that FTP-archive-like\ndistribution.\n\n\"Distributed\" means that you can easily share the complete revision\nhistory with yourself/others and *put it back together again*. E.g. a\nworkflow I had yesterday was:\n\n 1. Clone a \"master\" repo\n 2. Hack it on my laptop, thinking it worked\n 3. Push my revisions to deployment server #1, made & commited some hotfixes\n 4. Synced those to deployment server #2, made & commited some more fixes\n 5. Synced those back to my laptop\n 6. Synced them back upstream\n\nIf a workflow like that isn't any harder than commiting to one\n\"master\" repository you have a distributed system. You *could* do that\nwith SVK using some massive hacks, but it would quickly fall down when\nyou have multiple parties with diverging histories that you need to\njoin.\n"},{"id":"155155","messageId":"m34obxh0j9.fsf@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"25633","inReplyTo":"BF8EE51A-AFE4-4EBA-82E8-4A8B32678FBF@sb.org","subject":"Re: can subversion 1.6 be made \"just as distributed as git\"?","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2010-11-04T10:00:45Z","receivedAt":"2010-11-04T10:00:45Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Kevin Ballard writes:\n> On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:45 PM, MDellerus wrote:\n> \n> > I have a co-worker who has suggested that, using \"svnadmin hotcopy\", subversion \n> > can be\n> > just as \"distributed\" a system as Git\n> > \n> > While I see how this can be done, it hardly seems to me to qualify as \"just as\", \n> > making this \"plausible\" at best.\n> > \n> > Can anyone give me a quick confirmation of this? Confirmed? Plausible? Busted?\n> > \n> > If this is confirmed or plausible, could someone give me a quick run-down?\n> > \n> > (I would appreciate a response, no matter how long it takes, but I do have a \n> > meeting with this co-worker in another 16 hours... (10am Pacific).)\n> > \n> > Thanks in advance!\n> > \n> > (FYI - I have cross-posted this, just once, to an SVN forum, in the event they \n> > might have a different opinion.)\n>\n> Using \"svnadmin hotcopy\" you could certainly get your own local repo, but I fail to\n> see how you could easily join your history up with someone else's history using this\n> mechanism.\n\nThis is only replication, not distribution.\n\nThis is the same mistake that makes people say that branching in\nSubversion is easy... while what is important is not how easy and fast\nis to _create_ branch, but how easy is to merge it. The same applies\nwith distributed version control: it is not about how easy is to\nreplicate repository, but how easy is to merge in (pull) changes from\nreplica.\n\nBy the way, how \"svndamin hotcopy\" / svnsync works with the fact that\nsvn:log property is unversioned but might be changed, also for\nrevisions in the past?\n\n> If you really want to use SVN in a distributed manner, I would recommend\n> you simply use SVK.\n\nWikipedia says that \"On May 28, 2009, Chia-liang Kao announced that\nBest Practical will no longer be actively developing SVK\" and marks\nSVK as no-longer maintained, but latest release of SVK on CPAN is from\n23 Mar 2010.\n\nNote that http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/article/dvcs-round-one-system-rule-them-all-part-3\nsynthetic benchmark from Jan _2009_ finds that SVK has very bad scaling\nbehavior, and would have bad performance for larger projects.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"}]}