{"thread":{"id":"22360","subject":"Modern Git GUI","startedAt":"2010-01-23T21:40:21Z","lastAt":"2010-01-28T15:11:16Z","messageCount":8,"participants":["André Harms","Matthieu Moy","Johannes Schindelin","John Tapsell","Michael J Gruber","Guilhem Bonnefille","Maxime Lévesque"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"132505","messageId":"e39c1dcf1001231340p67448584pfdbc453cc8fb9ca7@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Modern Git GUI","fromName":"André Harms","fromEmail":"andre.harms@kuhlsolutions.de","sentAt":"2010-01-23T21:40:21Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-23T21:40:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"andre.harms@kuhlsolutions.de","avatar":null},"body":"Hi,\n\nI know there are several GUIs out there for Git. They are all\nfunctional and most of them can be used in the daily work with Git.\nIn my opinion one thing combines them: they aren't very pretty.\nI currently prefer the CLI to work with Git because it's quick and I\nam happy with it. But I think there are people out there, who don't\nwant to use the command-line because they are afraid of doing\nsomething wrong or anything like this. Additionally the CLI and\nunattractive GUIs are barriers to people who are not familar with a\nSCM-system.\nSo I thought about developing a new kind of GUI for Git that looks\nmodern and attractive (you know... some eye-candy stuff) and that is\neasy to use. In addition I thought about a built-in console (like we\nknow it from first person shooters) so that also people who prefer the\nCLI might use this GUI application too.\n\nIs there anybody who agrees or disagrees? I really would appreciate\nsome feedback about that idea.\n\nP.S.:\nNormally I come up with such ideas to the public and ask what others\nthink about it when I have some mockups. I am sorry that I haven't any\nright now.\n"},{"id":"132528","messageId":"vpq636resro.fsf@bauges.imag.fr","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":"e39c1dcf1001231340p67448584pfdbc453cc8fb9ca7@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Modern Git GUI","fromName":"Matthieu Moy","fromEmail":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","sentAt":"2010-01-24T09:50:19Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-24T09:50:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"matthieu.moy@grenoble-inp.fr","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/72c8a2705971a25dfaff23cece15130d405685845d911aedd5667ace277f3fc5?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"André Harms writes:\n\n> So I thought about developing a new kind of GUI for Git that looks\n> modern and attractive\n\nEvery once in a while, someone comes and says \"Git GUIs aren't as good\nas I'd expect, I'll write my own\". The result is that we have a myriad\nof GUIs (see\nhttp://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/InterfacesFrontendsAndTools#Graphical_Interfaces ),\nmany of them being half-finished and/or abandonned. I don't believe\nadding yet-another-one is going to improve the situation, and\npick-one-and-improve-it is IMHO a much better approach.\n\n> (you know... some eye-candy stuff) and that is easy to use.\n\nI use mostly the command-line, so I couldn't make a detailed review of\nthe existing, but tools like git-cola and a few others sound \"modern\"\nto me (Qt4 & co).\n\nIf you decide to go on with your project, either you want to carry it\nout alone, or you'll have to convince other developers to join. In the\nsecond case, a good starting point would be to explain why the other\nGUI are not good enough, and why you can't just contribute to them.\n\n-- \nMatthieu Moy\nhttp://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/\n"},{"id":"132559","messageId":"e39c1dcf1001241243r38b187b1tcb44b607b7cba8d9@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":"vpq636resro.fsf@bauges.imag.fr","subject":"Re: Modern Git GUI","fromName":"André Harms","fromEmail":"andre.harms@kuhlsolutions.de","sentAt":"2010-01-24T20:43:31Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-24T20:43:31Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"andre.harms@kuhlsolutions.de","avatar":null},"body":"2010/1/24 Matthieu Moy :\n> André Harms writes:\n>\n>> So I thought about developing a new kind of GUI for Git that looks\n>> modern and attractive\n>\n> Every once in a while, someone comes and says \"Git GUIs aren't as good\n> as I'd expect, I'll write my own\". The result is that we have a myriad\n> of GUIs (see\n> http://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/InterfacesFrontendsAndTools#Graphical_Interfaces ),\n> many of them being half-finished and/or abandonned. I don't believe\n> adding yet-another-one is going to improve the situation, and\n> pick-one-and-improve-it is IMHO a much better approach.\n\nBasically I agree with you. And I think you're right that yet another\none won't improve the situation immediately.\nI've to admin, that I didn't think about that very much. So I have to\nrethink my plan. But my concept is different than the one of other\nGUIs.\n\n>> (you know... some eye-candy stuff) and that is easy to use.\n>\n> I use mostly the command-line, so I couldn't make a detailed review of\n> the existing, but tools like git-cola and a few others sound \"modern\"\n> to me (Qt4 & co).\n>\n> If you decide to go on with your project, either you want to carry it\n> out alone, or you'll have to convince other developers to join. In the\n> second case, a good starting point would be to explain why the other\n> GUI are not good enough, and why you can't just contribute to them.\n\nIf I decide to go on anyhow, I'll work those things out clearly.\nThanks for the tip.\nIn my opinion other GUIs aren't intuitve for first-time users and\naren't as good for experienced users as the command-line. But a GUI\n_can_ be helpful for experienced users as well. So there's a hole that\ncan be filled. And my concept is based on a hybrid GUI that also\noffers a command-line for experienced users. So actions that are made\nwith the built in command-line (console) are visualized. That also\nmight be good for beginners who like to use the command-line but are\nafraid of using it.\nIf I go on I'll probably use Clutter as GUI toolkit. With it one is\nable to create real good looking GUIs (though it's not a guarantor for\na good GUI).\n\nThanks for your opinion.\n"},{"id":"132606","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.1001251524190.8733@intel-tinevez-2-302","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":"vpq636resro.fsf@bauges.imag.fr","subject":"Re: Modern Git GUI","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2010-01-25T14:25:09Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-25T14:25:09Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Sun, 24 Jan 2010, Matthieu Moy wrote:\n\n> If you decide to go on with your project, either you want to carry it \n> out alone, or you'll have to convince other developers to join. In the \n> second case, a good starting point would be to explain why the other GUI \n> are not good enough, and why you can't just contribute to them.\n\nActually, a much better way would be to be positive, not negative. I.e. \nto show something you did, which hopefully entices others to use your \nproject (and maybe contribute to it).\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"132607","messageId":"43d8ce651001250630p51761f6eyce8b89da6ffcd7b@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.1001251524190.8733@intel-tinevez-2-302","subject":"Re: Modern Git GUI","fromName":"John Tapsell","fromEmail":"johnflux@gmail.com","sentAt":"2010-01-25T14:30:06Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-25T14:30:06Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johnflux@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/25f70d4c0f96396b84a2e34bcd9bdc233462c7b4be29b5fdca8266fc53f30b0c?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"2010/1/25 Johannes Schindelin :\n> Hi,\n>\n> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010, Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>\n>> If you decide to go on with your project, either you want to carry it\n>> out alone, or you'll have to convince other developers to join. In the\n>> second case, a good starting point would be to explain why the other GUI\n>> are not good enough, and why you can't just contribute to them.\n>\n> Actually, a much better way would be to be positive, not negative.  I.e.\n> to show something you did, which hopefully entices others to use your\n> project (and maybe contribute to it).\n\nActually in this case, I don't think that would be good enough. My\nfirst thought would be \"why didn't he just add this feature to an\nexisting GUI rather than reinventing the wheel yet again\". So there\nwould really have to be good reasons why the other GUIs aren't a good\nenough starting point\n"},{"id":"132670","messageId":"4B5ED39D.1020804@drmicha.warpmail.net","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":"43d8ce651001250630p51761f6eyce8b89da6ffcd7b@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Modern Git GUI","fromName":"Michael J Gruber","fromEmail":"git@drmicha.warpmail.net","sentAt":"2010-01-26T11:35:57Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-26T11:35:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"git@grubix.eu","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/233215?v=4"},"body":"[Re-adding cc culled by John. Bad boy :) ]\nJohn Tapsell venit, vidit, dixit 25.01.2010 15:30:\n> 2010/1/25 Johannes Schindelin :\n>> Hi,\n>>\n>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010, Matthieu Moy wrote:\n>>\n>>> If you decide to go on with your project, either you want to carry it\n>>> out alone, or you'll have to convince other developers to join. In the\n>>> second case, a good starting point would be to explain why the other GUI\n>>> are not good enough, and why you can't just contribute to them.\n>>\n>> Actually, a much better way would be to be positive, not negative. I.e.\n>> to show something you did, which hopefully entices others to use your\n>> project (and maybe contribute to it).\n> \n> Actually in this case, I don't think that would be good enough. My\n> first thought would be \"why didn't he just add this feature to an\n> existing GUI rather than reinventing the wheel yet again\". So there\n> would really have to be good reasons why the other GUIs aren't a good\n> enough starting point\n\nA first step may be making the feature matrix in the wiki more honest -\nI've been meaning to do this for ages... For example, a gui which simply\ncalls \"gitk\" for history view simply does not support history view\naccording to my books, at least not on the same level (gui\n*integration*) as guis doing this natively. Or else gitk would have all\ngit-gui features and vice versa... or even plain git, for that matter.\n\nMichael\n"},{"id":"132720","messageId":"8b65902a1001261439l309325dap43d0196e6e163f4f@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":"e39c1dcf1001231340p67448584pfdbc453cc8fb9ca7@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Modern Git GUI","fromName":"Guilhem Bonnefille","fromEmail":"guilhem.bonnefille@gmail.com","sentAt":"2010-01-26T22:39:25Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-26T22:39:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"guilhem.bonnefille@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/375364bfee1f61197c540e37465abe3619fc24eb3a36b0edcea7f15b124036b0?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Hi,\n\nIMHO, a really important question is: why do we have so many\nstarted-not-terminated GUIs?\n\nMy point of view:\n- a \"good\" GUI is a GUI that integrates well with a desktop\n- a \"good\" GUI is a GUI that reuse an already existing/known metaphor\nThe most difficult is that raw Git is \"stupid content tracker\". So, a\ncomplete GUI will expose too many features to end-user:\n- which workflow: pull, push, email, ssh, ...\n- topic branches: rebasing or merging\n- and what about higher level feature: stash, stg, top git...\nSo, reading this, possible good GUIs are plugins for IDE with smallest\nGit support.\n\n\n2010/1/23 André Harms :\n> Is there anybody who agrees or disagrees? I really would appreciate\n> some feedback about that idea.\n\n-- \nGuilhem BONNEFILLE\n-=- JID: guyou@im.apinc.org MSN: guilhem_bonnefille@hotmail.com\n-=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefille@gmail.com\n-=- http://nathguil.free.fr/\n"},{"id":"132893","messageId":"554f5f781001280711j67753654w10651b53999cab9f@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"22360","inReplyTo":"e39c1dcf1001231340p67448584pfdbc453cc8fb9ca7@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Modern Git GUI","fromName":"Maxime Lévesque","fromEmail":"maxime.levesque@gmail.com","sentAt":"2010-01-28T15:11:16Z","receivedAt":"2010-01-28T15:11:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"maxime.levesque@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":" On one hand, the proliferation of GUIs for Guit should be good\nin a darwinian sense. On the other hand, for a new commer there\nare so many to try out that the 'better' ones get a diluted visibility.\n After trying a few I concluded that the Guit GUIs were in the medieval\nstage, then I stumbled upon SmartGit and I found it pretty decent.\nOne good explanation for why there are so many is that to provide\na GUI that is \"as simple as possible but no simpler\" is not an easy\nproblem to solve in terms of UI design, but it is an interesting one.\n\n Cheers\n\nOn Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 4:40 PM, André Harms\n wrote:\n> Hi,\n>\n> I know there are several GUIs out there for Git. They are all\n> functional and most of them can be used in the daily work with Git.\n> In my opinion one thing combines them: they aren't very pretty.\n> I currently prefer the CLI to work with Git because it's quick and I\n> am happy with it. But I think there are people out there, who don't\n> want to use the command-line because they are afraid of doing\n> something wrong or anything like this. Additionally the CLI and\n> unattractive GUIs are barriers to people who are not familar with a\n> SCM-system.\n> So I thought about developing a new kind of GUI for Git that looks\n> modern and attractive (you know... some eye-candy stuff) and that is\n> easy to use. In addition I thought about a built-in console (like we\n> know it from first person shooters) so that also people who prefer the\n> CLI might use this GUI application too.\n>\n> Is there anybody who agrees or disagrees? I really would appreciate\n> some feedback about that idea.\n>\n> P.S.:\n> Normally I come up with such ideas to the public and ask what others\n> think about it when I have some mockups. I am sorry that I haven't any\n> right now.\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n>\n"}]}