{"thread":{"id":"19317","subject":"How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","startedAt":"2009-05-12T15:42:32Z","lastAt":"2015-12-02T18:22:19Z","messageCount":12,"participants":["Jon Brisbin","Shawn O. Pearce","Heiko Voigt","Andreas Ericsson","Mike Ralphson","Magnus Bäck","Ealdwulf Wuffinga","dleong","Randall S. Becker"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"113644","messageId":"1CA7E776-B216-4AA5-BFE0-63C0B066980D@npcinternational.com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Jon Brisbin","fromEmail":"jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com","sentAt":"2009-05-12T15:42:32Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T15:42:32Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com","avatar":null},"body":"Folks,\n\nOur development manager was evaluating transitioning our AS400  \ndepartment to IBM Rational for the RPG programmers, who currently use  \nSEU for all their editing and source code control. I was asked about  \nCVS and how it compared to what they're doing now (so they wouldn't  \nhave to pay quite as much by omitting the source code control part of  \nRational) and I explained why the Java programmers don't use CVS.  \nWe're transitioning from Subversion to Git at the moment and I tried  \nto explain how the paradigm of managing source code using Git was  \ndifferent than what they were used to.\n\nToday, an RPG programmer can \"check out\" a source member and SEU won't  \nlet anyone else check that same member out (and it tells the developer  \nwho has it locked). The C++ programmers here also use Visual  \nSourceSafe, with this same setting turned on. They are open to  \nshifting paradigms away from this development methodology (the \"I'm  \nworking on this source file and I don't want anyone else changing it  \nuntil I'm done\") but keep in mind that AS400 programmers are NOT  \ncutting-edge and don't keep up with the latest development trends.  \nSince we're not going to fire every RPG developer we have, we need an  \nupgrade or transition path away from the SEU mindset to a more laissez- \nfaire development approach like that encouraged by using Git. But one  \nof the first roadblocks is going to be this notion that someone else  \ncan work on the same file I'm working on and that this lack of control  \ninvites errors and introduces unnecessary complexity.\n\nHow do I argue that a more open, Git-based approach to development is  \n\"better\" than the traditional, SEU-based methodology they use today?  \nIt may be an \"old\" way of doing things, but SEU works for them and,  \nmore importantly, they can understand the process. We don't share any  \nof our source code outside our organization and no one who would  \npotentially work on the source code is farther than a cubicle or two  \naway, so our needs in no way extend to what OpenSource projects  \nrequire, with their large and distributed developer base. Using Git  \nseems so open that its difficult to explain and even more difficult to  \ndefend against traditions that are 20 years old and have an entire  \nindustry of momentum behind them. Since Rational is eclipse-based, I'm  \nassuming the Git plugin for eclipse would work with Rational, but I'm  \non a Mac so I have no way to test this.\n\nI'm just wondering what the Git experts would say to someone wanting  \nto transition from say, Visual SourceSafe, and expecting the  \npredictability of having source files \"locked out\" while a developer  \nis making changes to them?\n\nThanks!\n\nJon Brisbin\nPortal Webmaster\nNPC International, Inc.\n"},{"id":"113646","messageId":"20090512155725.GT30527@spearce.org","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"1CA7E776-B216-4AA5-BFE0-63C0B066980D@npcinternational.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2009-05-12T15:57:25Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T15:57:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jon Brisbin <jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com> wrote:\n>\n> I'm just wondering what the Git experts would say to someone wanting to \n> transition from say, Visual SourceSafe, and expecting the predictability \n> of having source files \"locked out\" while a developer is making changes \n> to them?\n\nI had a really hard time with this \"locked out\" mentality at my last\nemployer.  They used PVCS Version Manager, and relied heavily on its\n\"lock out\" feature to protect files while they were being edited.\n\nBut more often than not, what happened was a guy had a file locked\nfor a month at a time while doing some new feature change, he'd go\non vacation for a week, and a production issue would crop up that\nneed a fix in that file.\n\nHalf of the time, developers would try to fix the code somewhere\nelse.  They realized that was bad, e.g. putting in 85 if-then tests\nat every call site because a function didn't tolerate a bad input,\nbut if they could lock the other 85 files, they'd do it over trying\nto break the lock held by the first guy.\n\nIt took me a year to convince them that git's no-lock model is\nbetter.  But they finally came over.  Most of it was about the fact\nthat they could now finally avoid that lock problem, and just do\nthe right change, and not need to do work arounds.  One of the guys\nhad trouble with that, he was OK with doing work arounds instead\nof real fixes, but once we cleaned up most of his workarounds and\nthe code base practically got cut in half, he got on board.\n\nIts an uphill battle.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"113654","messageId":"20090512161456.GB21556@macbook.lan","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"1CA7E776-B216-4AA5-BFE0-63C0B066980D@npcinternational.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Heiko Voigt","fromEmail":"hvoigt@hvoigt.net","sentAt":"2009-05-12T16:14:56Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T16:14:56Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"hvoigt@hvoigt.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/184958?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:42:32AM -0500, Jon Brisbin wrote:\n> I'm just wondering what the Git experts would say to someone wanting to \n> transition from say, Visual SourceSafe, and expecting the predictability \n> of having source files \"locked out\" while a developer is making changes \n> to them?\n\nHow about this:\n\nWith Git you effectively get a *local lock* on *all files*. These locks\nare just called branches. Thus you do not have to worry about anything\ngetting lost (like it could happen with the svn/cvs update command).\n\nTo unlock you merge. If you merge two branches and something (although\nunlikely) goes wrong you can always return to the \"different locked\nstates\" and investigate.\n\nSeen this way git is the best from both worlds (lock/merge).\n\ncheers Heiko\n"},{"id":"113655","messageId":"4A09A0E0.6010102@op5.se","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"1CA7E776-B216-4AA5-BFE0-63C0B066980D@npcinternational.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Andreas Ericsson","fromEmail":"ae@op5.se","sentAt":"2009-05-12T16:16:32Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T16:16:32Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"ae@op5.se","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/426e89595c75a8f5252dd0c989e5fabe5bcac616e68557427ad9aef6b0ca342a?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Jon Brisbin wrote:\n> \n> Today, an RPG programmer can \"check out\" a source member and SEU won't \n> let anyone else check that same member out (and it tells the developer \n> who has it locked). The C++ programmers here also use Visual SourceSafe, \n> with this same setting turned on. They are open to shifting paradigms \n> away from this development methodology (the \"I'm working on this source \n> file and I don't want anyone else changing it until I'm done\") but keep \n> in mind that AS400 programmers are NOT cutting-edge and don't keep up \n> with the latest development trends. Since we're not going to fire every \n> RPG developer we have, we need an upgrade or transition path away from \n> the SEU mindset to a more laissez-faire development approach like that \n> encouraged by using Git. But one of the first roadblocks is going to be \n> this notion that someone else can work on the same file I'm working on \n> and that this lack of control invites errors and introduces unnecessary \n> complexity.\n> \n\nAt $dayjob, we do daily standups at the start of each day. Each developer\nspeaks for a maximum of two minutes of what they intend to work on that\nday. This prevents double-work and usually causes 2-man teams to form\nspontaneously when two developers need something changed in either the\nsame or conflicting ways.\n\nThis way, conflicts rarely happen and when they do crop up, developers\ndon't even have to watch git to find out who wrote the changes that\nconflicted with them (although some will learn to do that very quickly).\n\n> How do I argue that a more open, Git-based approach to development is \n> \"better\" than the traditional, SEU-based methodology they use today?\n\nTough one. It might not be, even. If what they do now \"just works\", I\nexpect many of them will consider it useless toolchurn just for the hype\nof it. Old programmers rarely enjoy that sort of thing.\n\n> It \n> may be an \"old\" way of doing things, but SEU works for them and, more \n> importantly, they can understand the process. We don't share any of our \n> source code outside our organization and no one who would potentially \n> work on the source code is farther than a cubicle or two away, so our \n> needs in no way extend to what OpenSource projects require, with their \n> large and distributed developer base. Using Git seems so open that its \n> difficult to explain and even more difficult to defend against \n> traditions that are 20 years old and have an entire industry of momentum \n> behind them.\n\nWell, lots of communication is easier to achieve in a small team than in a\nlarge one, so try to get the people talking to each other. The only trouble\nwe have at my workplace is when conflicts crop up. They will do that at\nyour place too, and when they do it's likely they'll need some help\nresolving them. However, communication and the mantra \"useless codechurn is\nuseless\" will assist you quite neatly there.\n\n> \n> I'm just wondering what the Git experts would say to someone wanting to \n> transition from say, Visual SourceSafe, and expecting the predictability \n> of having source files \"locked out\" while a developer is making changes \n> to them?\n> \n\nI'd say: Hey, coders. If you want locking, we can write a small tool for\nthat. To make it a learning process too, that tool will be versioned by\ngit. We need a small (and stupid) server and a small (and stupid) client.\nLocking will be advisory, so you can stick to it if you like, and you get\na nice reason to yell at whoever ignored your lock in case of conflicts.\n\nBut that's just me, I guess. I've actually wanted such a tool as a sort\nof \"I'm working from home on *this* and *this*\", but haven't been able\nto muster the energy to work on it, especially since most of us where I\nwork are reasonably comfortable in the face of merge-conflicts.\n\n-- \nAndreas Ericsson                   andreas.ericsson@op5.se\nOP5 AB                             www.op5.se\nTel: +46 8-230225                  Fax: +46 8-230231\n\nRegister now for Nordic Meet on Nagios, June 3-4 in Stockholm\n http://nordicmeetonnagios.op5.org/\n\nConsidering the successes of the wars on alcohol, poverty, drugs and\nterror, I think we should give some serious thought to declaring war\non peace.\n"},{"id":"113662","messageId":"e2b179460905120940u2d87a591kefbdf659e1badd0c@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"1CA7E776-B216-4AA5-BFE0-63C0B066980D@npcinternational.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Mike Ralphson","fromEmail":"mike.ralphson@gmail.com","sentAt":"2009-05-12T16:40:47Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T16:40:47Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mike.ralphson@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/21603?v=4"},"body":"2009/5/12 Jon Brisbin <jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com>:\n> Our development manager was evaluating transitioning our AS400 department to\n> IBM Rational for the RPG programmers, who currently use SEU for all their\n> editing and source code control.\n\n+1 everything Shawn and Andreas said, but there are other practical\nissues beyond developer mindset.\n\n(see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/117755\nfor my context)\n\nI'm not familiar with the AS400 or SEU but do developers currently\nhave a complete copy of the tree to themselves, or do they only check\nout the files they're editing?\n\nI'm not sure what Rational Developer is likely to want to do in terms\nof getting the edited files back to the AS400 (assuming it supports\nthat directly). Are you planning to run (j)git on the AS400 or have\nanother step to get the code from a central git repo back to the\nAS400(s)?\n\nIs any deployment done to a test server? Is there a release process\nyou need to integrate with?\n\nOur devs expect their changes to go live at midnight after they\n'release' them. Are there similar assumptions for you?\n\nThey also expect to see everyone else's changes (to all the source\nfiles they're *not* working on) as soon as they go live, without\nhaving to pull them. Madness, sure, but it's the kind of madness they\nhappen to want.\n\nPreviously, no-one would have had to worry about merging / integrating\n(unless locks were broken). Someone (possibly everyone) now has to do\nthis.\n\nUnless developers have an AS400 at home, or a very funky emulator on\ntheir laptop, many of the distributed benefits of git are probably\ngoing to be of no use to you.\n\nYou probably need to address what concrete benefits remain and see if\nyou *want* to try and sell them.\n\nLocal / feature branches, ease of moving work and history between\ndevelopers, speed, repository size, repository resilience, usable\ntags, immutable history... All of those might still apply as wins in a\ncentralised / minimal-merging environment.\n\nYou may also want to find out if IBM can point you at a reference site\nfor Clearcase (presumably?) on the AS400 in conjunction with Rational\nDeveloper on pcs. It may be so bad and so different to what they have\nnow, that you can push git (with a bit of scripting around it) as\nactually more similar to their current workflow. 8-)\n\nMike\n"},{"id":"113664","messageId":"e2b179460905120947u465c99c9x46d030b2ff0b2959@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"4A09A0E0.6010102@op5.se","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Mike Ralphson","fromEmail":"mike.ralphson@gmail.com","sentAt":"2009-05-12T16:47:08Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T16:47:08Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mike.ralphson@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/21603?v=4"},"body":"2009/5/12 Andreas Ericsson <ae@op5.se>:\n> I'd say: Hey, coders. If you want locking, we can write a small tool for\n> that. To make it a learning process too, that tool will be versioned by\n> git. We need a small (and stupid) server and a small (and stupid) client.\n> Locking will be advisory, so you can stick to it if you like, and you get\n> a nice reason to yell at whoever ignored your lock in case of conflicts.\n>\n> But that's just me, I guess. I've actually wanted such a tool as a sort\n> of \"I'm working from home on *this* and *this*\", but haven't been able\n> to muster the energy to work on it, especially since most of us where I\n> work are reasonably comfortable in the face of merge-conflicts.\n\nTo indicate what's being worked on, both within and outside our\ntraditional pessimistic locking strategy, we simply push lightweight\ntags to the central repo.\n\nIt allows us to see who's got what locked (and since when), but it\nalso allows us to do file-level three-way merges if necessary so we\ncan keep long-running / speculative development up-to-date. The\npoor-man's rebase does the patch and moves the source tag along.\nReleasing the lock removes the tag.\n\nMike\n"},{"id":"113674","messageId":"7444645C-67E8-424E-9073-E831C8DE8656@npcinternational.com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"e2b179460905120940u2d87a591kefbdf659e1badd0c@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Jon Brisbin","fromEmail":"jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com","sentAt":"2009-05-12T17:56:42Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T17:56:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com","avatar":null},"body":"First, thanks everyone for the cogent responses. After a big salad and  \nsome chicken enchilada soup, I'm now energized to tackle this problem  \nwith renewed vigor... :)\n\nOn May 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Mike Ralphson wrote:\n\n> I'm not familiar with the AS400 or SEU but do developers currently\n> have a complete copy of the tree to themselves, or do they only check\n> out the files they're editing?\n\nThey only check out the specific files they need, unfortunately.\n\n> I'm not sure what Rational Developer is likely to want to do in terms\n> of getting the edited files back to the AS400 (assuming it supports\n> that directly). Are you planning to run (j)git on the AS400 or have\n> another step to get the code from a central git repo back to the\n> AS400(s)?\n\nSince I work with, but am not a part of, the AS400 group, I don't have  \na copy of Rational to play with. I have used Websphere Studio before,  \nthough (which I think is the precursor to Rational/eclipse) and it  \nused the toolbox utilities (JT400 et al) to transfer files locally,  \nallow the developer to work on the file, then put them back on the  \nserver where they can be compiled. I would assume Rational works  \nsimilarly. This is making me wonder whether any open source scm will  \nwork for this scenario. We may be tied to IBM's tools or nothing.\n\n> Is any deployment done to a test server? Is there a release process\n> you need to integrate with?\n\nWe have a test/release cycle that the AS400 group calls  \n\"implementation\" that is basically copying stuff from a development  \n400 to the production 400. I'm not sure what role an alternative scm  \nwould play in this scenario. There's also a fantastically cumbersome  \nreverse implementation process called a \"refresh\", which copies data  \nfiles from production back to development and basically clobbers  \nwhatever is on development. Only developer libraries are left  \nuntouched. This seems to me to be a process which could, shall we say,  \nuse some improvement. :)\n\n> Our devs expect their changes to go live at midnight after they\n> 'release' them. Are there similar assumptions for you?\n\nOur deployments have to go through some SOX-compliance ring-around-the- \nrosie, so they don't really have any assumptions as to when changes  \nare pushed to production. I could see hook scripts filling doing some  \nof the work here. But some manual intervention will be required for  \ncompliance reasons.\n\nThanks!\n\nJon Brisbin\nPortal Webmaster\nNPC International, Inc.\n"},{"id":"113677","messageId":"20090512181303.GA26082@jeeves.jpl.local","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"7444645C-67E8-424E-9073-E831C8DE8656@npcinternational.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Magnus Bäck","fromEmail":"baeck@swipnet.se","sentAt":"2009-05-12T18:13:03Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T18:13:03Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"baeck@swipnet.se","avatar":null},"body":"On Tuesday, May 12, 2009 at 19:56 CEST,\n     Jon Brisbin <jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com> wrote:\n\n> On May 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Mike Ralphson wrote:\n\n[...]\n\n> > I'm not sure what Rational Developer is likely to want to do in\n> > terms of getting the edited files back to the AS400 (assuming it\n> > supports that directly). Are you planning to run (j)git on the AS400\n> > or have another step to get the code from a central git repo back to\n> > the AS400(s)?\n>\n> Since I work with, but am not a part of, the AS400 group, I don't have\n> a copy of Rational to play with. I have used Websphere Studio before,\n> though (which I think is the precursor to Rational/eclipse) and it\n> used the toolbox utilities (JT400 et al) to transfer files locally,\n> allow the developer to work on the file, then put them back on the\n> server where they can be compiled. I would assume Rational works\n> similarly. This is making me wonder whether any open source scm will\n> work for this scenario. We may be tied to IBM's tools or nothing.\n\nI hope I'm not stating the obvious here, but \"Rational\" is a division\nwithin IBM, not a product. IBM Rational has two solutions for version\ncontrol, ClearCase and Team Concert. The latter does a lot more than\njust version control though, and it seems to be shipped with Rational\nDeveloper. Just to be clear, which product(s) are they considering?\n\n[...]\n\n-- \nMagnus Bäck\nbaeck@swipnet.se\n"},{"id":"113679","messageId":"116428E9-AFCF-4B26-AC57-9DD6DC53CB3E@npcinternational.com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"20090512181303.GA26082@jeeves.jpl.local","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Jon Brisbin","fromEmail":"jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com","sentAt":"2009-05-12T18:20:58Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T18:20:58Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jon.brisbin@npcinternational.com","avatar":null},"body":"\nOn May 12, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Magnus Bäck wrote:\n\n> I hope I'm not stating the obvious here, but \"Rational\" is a division\n> within IBM, not a product. IBM Rational has two solutions for version\n> control, ClearCase and Team Concert. The latter does a lot more than\n> just version control though, and it seems to be shipped with Rational\n> Developer. Just to be clear, which product(s) are they considering?\n\nThanks for the clarification.\n\nI think they were looking at Rational Developer/Team Concert. That  \nname sounds familiar, at least.\n\nThanks!\n\nJon Brisbin\nPortal Webmaster\nNPC International, Inc.\n"},{"id":"113695","messageId":"efe2b6d70905121431p79c05addh1cd5759221ae911c@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"1CA7E776-B216-4AA5-BFE0-63C0B066980D@npcinternational.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Ealdwulf Wuffinga","fromEmail":"ealdwulf@googlemail.com","sentAt":"2009-05-12T21:31:17Z","receivedAt":"2009-05-12T21:31:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"ealdwulf@googlemail.com","avatar":null},"body":"First, I just have to say: There are still people writing RPG? OMG!\n\nSecondly, I think you may need to think carefully about merging.\nLooking at the wikipedia entry, RPG is column oriented.\nMaybe existing merge tools will screw up the column structure. Even if\nthey don't, they will probably screw up the alignment\nand make your users have to go back and fix it.\n\nAs far as advantages go, I would suggest going back to them and asking\nthem 'what have you always wanted to change about SEU?' Maybe they\ndon't actually like locking. Maybe they have some problem we haven't\nseen yet, but could easily fix.\n\nThere is some kind of RPG editor here which may be of interest:\nhttp://www.rpgnextgen.com/\n\nEaldwulf\n"},{"id":"273918","messageId":"1449079797917-7643587.post@n2.nabble.com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"efe2b6d70905121431p79c05addh1cd5759221ae911c@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"dleong","fromEmail":"dleong@celsinc.com","sentAt":"2015-12-02T18:09:57Z","receivedAt":"2015-12-02T18:09:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dleong@celsinc.com","avatar":null},"body":"I stumbled on this topic while doing a research on how to move RPG source\ncontrol to adopt using Git. I wonder if the original question was answered.\nMy company would love to have a more central system to maintain both RPG\ncodes and javascript codes. We use Rational Developer exclusively (no more\nSEU) for our developers and we do not have budget to use Team Concert from\nIBM. So Git seems like a good solution.\n\nFinally. There are still a lot of RPG programmers out there. If you have not\nchecked lately, RPG is no longer a language with fix format column\nstructure: \nhttp://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibmi/library/i-ibmi-rpg-support/\n<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibmi/library/i-ibmi-rpg-support/>  \n\n\n\n\n--\nView this message in context: http://git.661346.n2.nabble.com/How-to-move-users-from-SEU-AS400-to-Git-tp2870074p7643587.html\nSent from the git mailing list archive at Nabble.com.\n"},{"id":"273920","messageId":"00fe01d12d2e$61875660$24960320$@com","threadId":"19317","inReplyTo":"1449079797917-7643587.post@n2.nabble.com","subject":"RE: How to move users from SEU (AS400) to Git?","fromName":"Randall S. Becker","fromEmail":"rsbecker@nexbridge.com","sentAt":"2015-12-02T18:22:19Z","receivedAt":"2015-12-02T18:22:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"randall.becker@nexbridge.ca","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/28956764?v=4"},"body":"On December-02-15 1:10 PM dleong wrote:\n>I stumbled on this topic while doing a research on how to move RPG source\n>control to adopt using Git. I wonder if the original question was answered.\n>My company would love to have a more central system to maintain both RPG\ncodes >and javascript codes. We use Rational Developer exclusively (no more\n>SEU) for our developers and we do not have budget to use Team Concert from\nIBM. >So Git seems like a good solution.\n\nI don't see any reason why Git would not be happy with RPG, whether\nstructured or not, providing you have a reasonably Posix-like file system.\nThe Rational Suite includes ClearCase, which can also be converted to Git\n(BTDT), although it is a bit intricate to convert and the complexity depends\nentirely on what part of history you want to preserve.\n\nCheers,\nRandall\n--\nNonStop and Unix geek since before the CSNet mass migration.\n"}]}