{"thread":{"id":"17814","subject":"Setting up a bug tracking system where users can file bug reports and feature requests for Git","startedAt":"2009-02-16T02:55:33Z","lastAt":"2009-02-16T10:00:49Z","messageCount":4,"participants":["Jason Spiro","Junio C Hamano","Johannes Gilger"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"104883","messageId":"loom.20090216T025046-863@post.gmane.org","threadId":"17814","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Setting up a bug tracking system where users can file bug reports and feature requests for Git","fromName":"Jason Spiro","fromEmail":"jasonspiro4@gmail.com","sentAt":"2009-02-16T02:55:33Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-16T02:55:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jasonspiro4@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hi,\n\nIs there a bug tracking system where I can file bug reports and feature \nrequests for Git? If not, could you please set up such a system? I am more \nlikely to send bug reports and feature requests to a bug tracking system than a \nmailing list, since I know that they can't be lost in the mists of time and \nforgotten forever. :)\n\nAnd if you really hate the web, and you insist on an email-centric bug tracking \nsystem, I know of an option for you: \"debbugs\". Both the Debian Linux \ndistribution developers, and the GNU Emacs developers[1], use this system. To \nsubmit a bug to debbugs, you simply send an email to the \"submit@\" address. To \nadd comments to a bug report, you email the \"${bugnumber}@\" address. To make \nother changes, you email the \"control@\" address.\n\n^ [1]. see http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/emacs for a list of bugs in \nEmacs\n\nCheers,\n--\nJason Spiro: software/web developer, packager, trainer, IT consultant.\nI support Linux, UNIX, Windows, and more. Contact me to discuss your needs.\n+1 (416) 992-3445 / www.jspiro.com\n"},{"id":"104895","messageId":"7vab8nf38a.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"17814","inReplyTo":"loom.20090216T025046-863@post.gmane.org","subject":"Re: Setting up a bug tracking system where users can file bug reports and feature requests for Git","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2009-02-16T03:52:05Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-16T03:52:05Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jason Spiro writes:\n\n> Is there a bug tracking system where I can file bug reports and feature\n> requests for Git? If not, could you please set up such a system? I am\n> more likely to send bug reports and feature requests to a bug tracking\n> system than a mailing list, since I know that they can't be lost in the\n> mists of time and forgotten forever. :)\n\nThis come up on the list from time to time.\n\nI am not fundamentally opposed to using an automated way to help tracking\nissues, but a tracking system is not a panacea.\n\nA tracking system is just a tool. You need to have a competent and stable\nproject secretary whose job is to look after the issues database. The\ntasks involved are to expire the stale ones, to reject invalid entries, to\nprod the bug reporter for additional information, to find a volunteer to\ntake up on an individual issue, to prod the bug reporter for confirmation\non the fix once it is ready, and to close completed issues.\n\nAnd do not tell me that debbugs can route messages. People do not respond\nto automated messages the same way as they would to messages from a warm\nand respected body.\n\nWe handle the \"to expire the stale ones and to reject the invalid ones\"\npart by losing the ones that even the original complainer does not feel\nmotivated enough to be persistent in the mists of time (yes, it is a\n*feature* of mailing list based community, not a deficiency).\n\nA mailing list based workflow lacks support for other tasks a competent\nproject secratary performs: finding a taker for a task and prodding the\nparty whose court the ball currently is in. That is currently done purely\non voluntary basis. Often the person who introduced the bug originally\nfeels ashamed enough to look into the issue. A diligent bug reporter asks\nif the issue previously reported has a resolution when a certain period of\nsilence passes, and such a \"prodding\" raises the awareness of the issue in\nthe group of volunteer developers and gives the issue a higher priority.\n\nI would agree 100% with you if you said relying on such a purely volunteer\nbased system would not be ideal. It is not. But given that the ratio\nbetween gimme-whiners and can-do-contributors is not so great, that's the\nbest we can currently do.\n\nIt would be great to have a competent and stable project secretary to fill\nthe gap. From time to time, we do see some people playing that role,\nsummarizing the issues raised, discussed and then left unresolved, but\nthat too is purely on voluntary basis. I do that as a part of the task\nfor the maintainer, but obviously I have to do other things as well.\n\nIf you are volunteering to be the lead for the project secretaries group,\nthat would be great. \n\nSuch a person may choose a tracking system he or she is the most familiar\nwith, and if that helps the progress of the project, that would be even\nbetter.\n"},{"id":"104917","messageId":"slrngpibdp.gmk.heipei@minime.lan","threadId":"17814","inReplyTo":"7vab8nf38a.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: Setting up a bug tracking system where users can file bug reports and feature requests for Git","fromName":"Johannes Gilger","fromEmail":"heipei@hackvalue.de","sentAt":"2009-02-16T09:11:20Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-16T09:11:20Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"heipei@hackvalue.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6072?v=4"},"body":"On 2009-02-16, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> A tracking system is just a tool. You need to have a competent and stable\n> project secretary whose job is to look after the issues database. The\n> tasks involved are to expire the stale ones, to reject invalid entries, to\n> prod the bug reporter for additional information, to find a volunteer to\n> take up on an individual issue, to prod the bug reporter for confirmation\n> on the fix once it is ready, and to close completed issues.\n\nAs I've been against web-based bug-trackers before I'd like to present \nan idea which, imho, is a good compromise. I'm afraid that the number of \nfalse bug-reports will increase dramatically with the introduction of \nsuch a bug-tracker, eating up time of the volunteers. Also, as I \nmentioned, I really dislike using web-based tools.\n\nIf we had such a secretary who's not only familiar with the bugtracker \nbut also familiar enough with git and it's development organization, \nhe/she could work with the system, filter out the noise and mail real \nbugs or well-thought-through feature-requests to this mailing-list (with \na link back to the bugtracker) with the full text of the bug and maybe \nhis/her oppinion about it.\n\nBut maybe that's just duplication of work, in your eyes.\n\nGreetings,\nJojo\n\n-- \nJohannes Gilger \nhttp://hackvalue.de/heipei/\nGPG-Key: 0x42F6DE81\nGPG-Fingerprint: BB49 F967 775E BB52 3A81 882C 58EE B178 42F6 DE81\n"},{"id":"104923","messageId":"7vljs6bt0u.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"17814","inReplyTo":"slrngpibdp.gmk.heipei@minime.lan","subject":"Re: Setting up a bug tracking system where users can file bug reports and feature requests for Git","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2009-02-16T10:00:49Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-16T10:00:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Johannes Gilger writes:\n\n> On 2009-02-16, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>> A tracking system is just a tool. You need to have a competent and stable\n>> project secretary whose job is to look after the issues database.\n> ...\n> If we had such a secretary who's not only familiar with the bugtracker \n> but also familiar enough with git and it's development organization, \n> he/she could work with the system, filter out the noise and mail real \n> bugs or well-thought-through feature-requests to this mailing-list (with \n> a link back to the bugtracker) with the full text of the bug and maybe \n> his/her oppinion about it.\n\nIf there were such a person or a group of people to help the project that\nway, it would be great. What you just said is in total agreement of the\nparagraph you quoted above (which I omitted ;-)).\n\n> But maybe that's just duplication of work, in your eyes.\n\nAs you culled the To/Cc list and sent it only to the mailing list, I\ncannot quite tell if you were referring to me, so this is an unsolicited\ncomment to your statement, but I do not think it is duplication of work at\nall.\n\nSifting chaffs and interfacing with people are what I would love to see\nfrom a capable project secretary. It is already a large part of what the\nmaintainer does (see Documentation/howto/maintain-git.txt), but as the\nproject grows larger, you'll see bottleneck at the maintainer and the\nmajor contributors. Three things you can do to help are to filter noise,\nto summarize useful inputs, and to offload the routine prodding (in both\ndirection -- querying the status of unfilled requests to developers, and\nasking for confirmation of an already implemented fix/enhancement to\nrequestors) from the maintainer and major contributors, which I listed as\nthe project secretary tasks.\n\nThere are other ways to help: by answering user questions, spotting and\ncorrecting wrong answers and FUDs given in response to inquiries from new\npeople, dowsing flames before they get out of control, reducing recurring\ntopics by pointing out previous discussions, etc.\n"}]}