{"thread":{"id":"17511","subject":"git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","startedAt":"2009-02-02T19:07:42Z","lastAt":"2009-02-06T16:30:16Z","messageCount":10,"participants":["jidanni@jidanni.org","Christian MICHON","Nanako Shiraishi","Teemu Likonen","Johannes Schindelin","Johannes Gilger","Andreas Ericsson"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"102882","messageId":"87myd4fyip.fsf@jidanni.org","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"","fromEmail":"jidanni@jidanni.org","sentAt":"2009-02-02T19:07:42Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-02T19:07:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jidanni@jidanni.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/36568d4af4c8d3e71627ef3b8c8d00e39065b12f29676cccd38ced75e68fa2a6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"I predict that git maintenance will have to adopt a bug tracker.\n\nJust like many other packages that relied on just sending bugs and\npatches to a mailing list, in the end ended up adding a bug tracker.\n"},{"id":"102904","messageId":"46d6db660902021407x3e2a1531mb2189d9f4a3b55b3@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"87myd4fyip.fsf@jidanni.org","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"Christian MICHON","fromEmail":"christian.michon@gmail.com","sentAt":"2009-02-02T22:07:38Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-02T22:07:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"christian.michon@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/8a7c327b21187fbcab5c27640a49450eec72e0355dc292501197f27a5a744ec4?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:07 PM, wrote:\n> I predict that git maintenance will have to adopt a bug tracker.\n>\n\nwill it snow tomorrow ? ;-)\n\n-- \nChristian\n--\nhttp://detaolb.sourceforge.net/, a linux distribution for Qemu with Git inside !\n"},{"id":"102945","messageId":"20090203190552.6117@nanako3.lavabit.com","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"87myd4fyip.fsf@jidanni.org","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"Nanako Shiraishi","fromEmail":"nanako3@lavabit.com","sentAt":"2009-02-03T10:05:52Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-03T10:05:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nanako3@lavabit.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/3777b9e201c5883a62b1a6fdf7c53f2d712d1d80989146063ea861e33aad72a8?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Quoting jidanni@jidanni.org:\n\n> I predict that git maintenance will have to adopt a bug tracker.\n>\n> Just like many other packages that relied on just sending bugs and\n> patches to a mailing list, in the end ended up adding a bug tracker.\n\nThanks for sharing your insight.\n\nA more important thing is what you are going to do about it.\n\nThere are people in the project who track bugs and patches and they are doing an excellent job, but it's inevitable that the larger the project grows, the more bugs and patches sent to the mailing list. There is a real risk that some of them may get lost in the noise.\n\nThe project can use capable project secretaries, and these people may choose to use an issue tracking system to ease their job of keeping track of bugs and patches. \"A bug tracker\" is just a tool and you need to have real people behind it who are actively taking care of the system and looking at the issues. Are you volunteering to make a difference by becoming one of them, or are you merely adding useless noise to the list traffic to make it more likely for bugs and patches to be lost?\n\n-- \nNanako Shiraishi\nhttp://ivory.ap.teacup.com/nanako3/\n"},{"id":"102962","messageId":"87ab93fxod.fsf@iki.fi","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"20090203190552.6117@nanako3.lavabit.com","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"Teemu Likonen","fromEmail":"tlikonen@iki.fi","sentAt":"2009-02-03T13:38:10Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-03T13:38:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"tlikonen@iki.fi","avatar":null},"body":"On 2009-02-03 19:05 (+0900), Nanako Shiraishi wrote:\n\n> Quoting jidanni@jidanni.org:\n>\n>> I predict that git maintenance will have to adopt a bug tracker. Just\n>> like many other packages that relied on just sending bugs and patches\n>> to a mailing list, in the end ended up adding a bug tracker.\n>\n> Thanks for sharing your insight.\n>\n> A more important thing is what you are going to do about it.\n\nMaybe he would file a lot of bug reports. At least in Debian there are\nabout 1800 reports from jidanni@jidanni.org:\n\nhttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?submitter=jidanni@jidanni.org\n"},{"id":"102966","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0902031541100.6573@intel-tinevez-2-302","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"87ab93fxod.fsf@iki.fi","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2009-02-03T14:42:33Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-03T14:42:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Teemu Likonen wrote:\n\n> On 2009-02-03 19:05 (+0900), Nanako Shiraishi wrote:\n> \n> > Quoting jidanni@jidanni.org:\n> >\n> >> I predict that git maintenance will have to adopt a bug tracker. Just\n> >> like many other packages that relied on just sending bugs and patches\n> >> to a mailing list, in the end ended up adding a bug tracker.\n> >\n> > Thanks for sharing your insight.\n> >\n> > A more important thing is what you are going to do about it.\n> \n> Maybe he would file a lot of bug reports. At least in Debian there are\n> about 1800 reports from jidanni@jidanni.org:\n> \n> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?submitter=jidanni@jidanni.org\n\nDefinitely too much time on his hands.\n\nIf I had that much time, I know exactly what projects I would tackle: \nthere are good ideas on the GSoC page, and it is highly unlikely all of \nthem will be taken/sponsored by GSoC.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"103053","messageId":"87tz7bniyk.fsf@jidanni.org","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0902031541100.6573@intel-tinevez-2-302","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"","fromEmail":"jidanni@jidanni.org","sentAt":"2009-02-04T00:28:51Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-04T00:28:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jidanni@jidanni.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/36568d4af4c8d3e71627ef3b8c8d00e39065b12f29676cccd38ced75e68fa2a6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Anyway, I have this file\n -rw-r--r-- 1 19561 2009-01-13 03:26 DietCherries17\nwhere I have 17 tiny documentation patches that sent to\ngit@vger.kernel.org but nothing happened.\nPerhaps I could send them to a volunteer who could see if any of them\nare useful and then do something with them. Thanks.\n"},{"id":"103463","messageId":"gmham3$209$1@ger.gmane.org","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"87tz7bniyk.fsf@jidanni.org","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"Johannes Gilger","fromEmail":"heipei@hackvalue.de","sentAt":"2009-02-06T12:33:07Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-06T12:33:07Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"heipei@hackvalue.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6072?v=4"},"body":"On 2009-02-04, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:\n> Anyway, I have this file\n> -rw-r--r-- 1 19561 2009-01-13 03:26 DietCherries17\n> where I have 17 tiny documentation patches that sent to\n> git@vger.kernel.org but nothing happened.\n\nAs I recall a lot of those things were replied to (at least for the \nfirst few patches) as being not quite right (or plain wrong). Once you \neven said \"oh, if you could fix this for me before applying it\". At some \npoint the time it takes to review patches and to write a quick fix for \nthe bugs/typos yourself stands in no relation whatsoever.\n\n> Perhaps I could send them to a volunteer who could see if any of them\n> are useful and then do something with them. Thanks.\n\nOr you could make one big \"typo-fix\"-patch out of them and one \n\"i-didnt-understand-the-manpage-there\"-patch. Then these patches could \nbe reviewed and you could revise them.\n\nA second solution would be to tackle real problems, earn the respect of \nthe maintainer and those close to him, have your patches merged and \n_then_ when you come up with nitpicks about documentation, those people \nwould be sure of your abilities and would put more trust in you to not \nmess up when writing documentation.\n\nAbout the bug-tracker-thing: I am quite happy that git is one of those \nprojects where everything happens in one spot: Development, \nbug-reporting and general discussion. It makes it a lot easier than \ndisconnected systems where information is easily duplicated and becomes \nstale at other ends.\n\nBut that's just my oppinion,\nGreetings, Jojo\n\n-- \nJohannes Gilger \nhttp://hackvalue.de/heipei/\nGPG-Key: 0x42F6DE81\nGPG-Fingerprint: BB49 F967 775E BB52 3A81 882C 58EE B178 42F6 DE81\n"},{"id":"103467","messageId":"498C3362.9080105@op5.se","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"87tz7bniyk.fsf@jidanni.org","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"Andreas Ericsson","fromEmail":"ae@op5.se","sentAt":"2009-02-06T12:56:02Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-06T12:56:02Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"ae@op5.se","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/426e89595c75a8f5252dd0c989e5fabe5bcac616e68557427ad9aef6b0ca342a?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:\n> Anyway, I have this file\n> -rw-r--r-- 1 19561 2009-01-13 03:26 DietCherries17\n> where I have 17 tiny documentation patches that sent to\n> git@vger.kernel.org but nothing happened.\n> Perhaps I could send them to a volunteer who could see if any of them\n> are useful and then do something with them. Thanks.\n\nThat's really not how things work around here, or on any OSS project\nI've ever been engaged in. It's your itch to scratch, so before you\nhave a chance of getting anyone else to scratch it for you, you have\nto either make those others interested enough to volunteer to do it\nfor you, or you get to scratch away as much as you like yourself.\n\nThe longer and more difficult way is to scratch the itches of so\nmany others that people want to help you out because the chance\nyou'll do something else which is *also* productive is high enough\nto warrant it. So far, you seem more interested in shooting from\nthe hip, sending patches at random that have little or no impact\non anything and that nobody else is genuinely interested in. That's\nfine if you also pick up the pieces of your poor aim and actually\nfollow through but when it really just causes more work for others\nthan the end-result would have been worth to start with, the net\nresult is counter-productive and you have to work harder when you\nhave ideas/patches that are actually good than you would have been\nforced to with a better overall signal-to-noise ratio.\n\n-- \nAndreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se\nOP5 AB www.op5.se\nTel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231\n"},{"id":"103471","messageId":"87skmrhf5i.fsf@jidanni.org","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"498C3362.9080105@op5.se","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"","fromEmail":"jidanni@jidanni.org","sentAt":"2009-02-06T13:24:25Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-06T13:24:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jidanni@jidanni.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/36568d4af4c8d3e71627ef3b8c8d00e39065b12f29676cccd38ced75e68fa2a6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Thank you for your response.\n\nhttp://jidanni.org/test/DietCherries17 are some things that I\npreviously posted to git@vger.kernel.org, but did not get explicitly\naccepted or rejected.\n\nYou see I feel I am about to enter a month where even simple\nsubtraction and division seems a challenge (mental health not the\nbest.)\n\nWith a bug tracker, at least one knows somebody saw something for\nsure, and it didn't just float by. That way one could register items\ninto it on one's good days, and then take a break, which I am going to\ndo now. Thanks.\n"},{"id":"103529","messageId":"slrngoopcn.14u8.heipei@macbook.lan","threadId":"17511","inReplyTo":"87skmrhf5i.fsf@jidanni.org","subject":"Re: git maintenance bug tracker sooner better than later","fromName":"Johannes Gilger","fromEmail":"heipei@hackvalue.de","sentAt":"2009-02-06T16:30:16Z","receivedAt":"2009-02-06T16:30:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"heipei@hackvalue.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6072?v=4"},"body":"On 2009-02-06, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:\n> With a bug tracker, at least one knows somebody saw something for\n> sure, and it didn't just float by. That way one could register items\n> into it on one's good days, and then take a break, which I am going to\n> do now. Thanks.\n\nAnd what \"bugs\" would you file? If I look at your patch-series which \nconsists of oneliner documentation nitpicking, I don't even want to \nimagine how much these would get blown up by a web-based bug-tracker.\n\nThe web-based is the second part: When working on/with *git*, a \ncommand-line tool, I naturally work in a terminal, and I *don't* want to \nfire up a webbrowser to communicate something as simple as a bug. Also \nbug-trackers tend to attract all sorts of people who don't really think \nor try to find bugs before submitting them. Those sorts of people \nprobably already file bugs for git and the distribution-maintainers then \ntell them to report the problem upstream (i.e.: here) or do it \nthemselves.\n\n-- \nJohannes Gilger \nhttp://hackvalue.de/heipei/\nGPG-Key: 0x42F6DE81\nGPG-Fingerprint: BB49 F967 775E BB52 3A81 882C 58EE B178 42F6 DE81\n"}]}