{"thread":{"id":"17039","subject":"Google Summer of Code 2009","startedAt":"2009-01-07T18:30:33Z","lastAt":"2009-01-14T22:01:12Z","messageCount":19,"participants":["Shawn O. Pearce","Miklos Vajna","Alex Riesen","Johannes Schindelin","Sam Vilain","Jakub Narebski","Andreas Ericsson","Christian Couder","Stephan Beyer"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"99600","messageId":"20090107183033.GB10790@spearce.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2009-01-07T18:30:33Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-07T18:30:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Google just pre-announced that Summer of Code 2009 will run. Its\ngoing to be a bit smaller than last year's program due to the poor\nworldwide economic climate, but the open source community is quite\nfortunate that Google is footing the bill for yet another summer of\nstudents hacking on open source projects.\n\nGiven our success last year, I think we should try applying again\nthis year as a mentoring organization. I've started to put the\nwiki pages together by cloning last year's stuff:\n\n Organization application:\n http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/SoC2009Application\n\n Organization ideas page:\n http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/SoC2009Ideas\n\nFWIW, the folks who organize GSoC thought our ideas page is among\nthe better ones they've seen year-after-year. So I'm largely\nkeeping the same format. :-)\n\nThe application answers really need to be reworked; we need to\naddress our 2008 results in these parts.\n\nThe ideas box is once again open for suggestions. Please start\nproposing student projects, and possible mentors.\n\n\nSince the program is smaller, there is a chance we won't be accepted\nthis year due to space constraints. But I think its still worthwhile\nto prepare everything and hope for the best. And before you can\nask, no, my employee status with OSPO doesn't improve our odds\nfor acceptance. :-)\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"99628","messageId":"20090107231108.GP21154@genesis.frugalware.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"20090107183033.GB10790@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Miklos Vajna","fromEmail":"vmiklos@frugalware.org","sentAt":"2009-01-07T23:11:08Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-07T23:11:08Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"vmiklos@frugalware.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/401c1cbbb3a5d13e650c691a2c71d6fd0b80df1a01bc74d9f1972675dd58f2bd?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 10:30:33AM -0800, \"Shawn O. Pearce\" wrote:\n> The ideas box is once again open for suggestions. Please start\n> proposing student projects, and possible mentors.\n\nI think restartable git-clone from last year is still actual, and would\nbe nice to have.\n"},{"id":"99629","messageId":"81b0412b0901071512k64a7d5e2u2c602b903f5233d3@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"20090107183033.GB10790@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Alex Riesen","fromEmail":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","sentAt":"2009-01-07T23:12:37Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-07T23:12:37Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/324101?v=4"},"body":"2009/1/7 Shawn O. Pearce :\n>\n> Organization ideas page:\n> http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/SoC2009Ideas\n>\n\nBTW, what happened to GitTorrent?\n"},{"id":"99630","messageId":"20090107231431.GC10790@spearce.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"81b0412b0901071512k64a7d5e2u2c602b903f5233d3@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2009-01-07T23:14:31Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-07T23:14:31Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Alex Riesen wrote:\n> 2009/1/7 Shawn O. Pearce :\n> >\n> > Organization ideas page:\n> > http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/SoC2009Ideas\n> \n> BTW, what happened to GitTorrent?\n\nI got lazy and didn't copy everything over. ;-)\n\nGitTorrent and restartable clone both should probably be on the 2009\nidea list, though GitTorrent already has a code base from the failed\n2008 project that someone might be able to start and pick up from...\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"99632","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901080024170.7496@intel-tinevez-2-302","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"20090107231431.GC10790@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2009-01-07T23:30:02Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-07T23:30:02Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Wed, 7 Jan 2009, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n\n> Alex Riesen wrote:\n> > 2009/1/7 Shawn O. Pearce :\n> > >\n> > > Organization ideas page:\n> > > http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/SoC2009Ideas\n> > \n> > BTW, what happened to GitTorrent?\n> \n> I got lazy and didn't copy everything over. ;-)\n\nActually, that would have been lazy. :-)\n\n> GitTorrent and restartable clone both should probably be on the 2009 \n> idea list, though GitTorrent already has a code base from the failed \n> 2008 project that someone might be able to start and pick up from...\n\nAccording to\n\n\thttp://repo.or.cz/w/VCS-Git-Torrent.git\n\nJoshua is still working on it (albeit slowly).\n\nHowever, from what Sam said at the GitTogether, it might be a much better \nidea to look at the existing code as a fact-finding experiment, scrap it \n(excluding the experience), and start modifying git-daemon.\n\nAFAICT Sam has a pretty clear idea how to go about it, and staying with C \nshould make it much easier for other people to comment.\n\nNote that there has been a flurry of emails on the gittorrent list a few \nweeks back, where somebody challenged the approach Sam wants to take, \nsaying that BitTorrent has some very nice features that are absolutely \nnecessary, such as its pretty awkward custom encoding.\n\nBut AFAICT Sam did a pretty good job at dispelling all of the objections.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"99634","messageId":"81b0412b0901071540y3ab3dea7of1ad59f7a025c60c@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901080024170.7496@intel-tinevez-2-302","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Alex Riesen","fromEmail":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","sentAt":"2009-01-07T23:40:09Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-07T23:40:09Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/324101?v=4"},"body":"2009/1/8 Johannes Schindelin :\n>> GitTorrent and restartable clone both should probably be on the 2009\n>> idea list, though GitTorrent already has a code base from the failed\n>> 2008 project that someone might be able to start and pick up from...\n>\n> According to\n>\n> http://repo.or.cz/w/VCS-Git-Torrent.git\n>\n> Joshua is still working on it (albeit slowly).\n>\n> However, from what Sam said at the GitTogether, it might be a much better\n> idea to look at the existing code as a fact-finding experiment, scrap it\n> (excluding the experience), and start modifying git-daemon.\n\nTakes courage, saying things like that :)\n"},{"id":"99678","messageId":"1231401350.6067.4.camel@maia.lan","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901080024170.7496@intel-tinevez-2-302","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Sam Vilain","fromEmail":"sam@vilain.net","sentAt":"2009-01-08T07:55:50Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-08T07:55:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sam@vilain.net","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/8fc840ca854dbf6f7065b4335e3b934951c1dca3b11db688e95e471901f8f4a8?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 00:30 +0100, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> However, from what Sam said at the GitTogether, it might be a much better \n> idea to look at the existing code as a fact-finding experiment, scrap it \n> (excluding the experience), and start modifying git-daemon.\n> \n> AFAICT Sam has a pretty clear idea how to go about it, and staying with C \n> should make it much easier for other people to comment.\n> \n> Note that there has been a flurry of emails on the gittorrent list a few \n> weeks back, where somebody challenged the approach Sam wants to take, \n> saying that BitTorrent has some very nice features that are absolutely \n> necessary, such as its pretty awkward custom encoding.\n> \n> But AFAICT Sam did a pretty good job at dispelling all of the objections.\n\nYes, this is accurate as I know it. I've renamed and reworded the\nheading under the SoC2009Ideas page to point to the most current design.\nIt's all in a \"just add JFDI\" point right now I think ;-).\n\nSam.\n"},{"id":"99918","messageId":"m3privyn20.fsf@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"20090107183033.GB10790@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2009-01-10T19:33:04Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-10T19:33:04Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"\"Shawn O. Pearce\" writes:\n\n> The application answers really need to be reworked; we need to\n> address our 2008 results in these parts.\n\nBy the way, do you know what happened with git-sequencer project? \n\nIf I remember correctly there was agreement on sequences mini-language\n(I think), and there was git-sequencer prototype in shell, using\ngit-cherry-pick if I remember correctly, and even git-rebase and\ngit-am etc reworked to make use of git-sequencer. Stephan Beyer wrote\nthat he has some preliminary version of builtin git-sequencer (in C),\nand that it makes git-rebase--interactive and like faster than current\nimplementation... but builtin sequencer never materialized on git\nmailing list as a patch, if I remember correctly, and of course it was\nnot merged into git either.\n \n> The ideas box is once again open for suggestions. Please start\n> proposing student projects, and possible mentors.\n\nHmm... take a look what features competition has (Darcs, Bazaar-NG,\nSubversion, Mercurial, Monotone)...\n\n> \n> \n> Since the program is smaller, there is a chance we won't be accepted\n> this year due to space constraints. But I think its still worthwhile\n> to prepare everything and hope for the best. And before you can\n> ask, no, my employee status with OSPO doesn't improve our odds\n> for acceptance. :-)\n\nPerhaps at least _one_ project. I think that resumable clone /\nresumable fetch would be a good thing to have...\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"99920","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901102058220.3586@pacific.mpi-cbg.de","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"m3privyn20.fsf@localhost.localdomain","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2009-01-10T19:58:49Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-10T19:58:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Sat, 10 Jan 2009, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> \"Shawn O. Pearce\" writes:\n> \n> > The application answers really need to be reworked; we need to\n> > address our 2008 results in these parts.\n> \n> By the way, do you know what happened with git-sequencer project? \n\n-- snip --\ncommit 3bfd6761ce2f769746c6b84be97f7da0cad7cad1\nAuthor: Stephan Beyer \nDate: Wed Jan 7 19:07:31 2009 +0100\n\n builtin-sequencer.c/prepare_commit_msg_hook: tiny simplification\n\n Thanks to Christian.\n-- snap --\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"100106","messageId":"496B2690.2010902@op5.se","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"20090107183033.GB10790@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Andreas Ericsson","fromEmail":"ae@op5.se","sentAt":"2009-01-12T11:16:32Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T11:16:32Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"ae@op5.se","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/426e89595c75a8f5252dd0c989e5fabe5bcac616e68557427ad9aef6b0ca342a?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Just chiming in that I can probably help mentoring whoever goes\nwith libgit2. I do not have enough spare time for me to promise\nthat I can be there as much as I think is necessary and proper,\nbut I'll gladly help out.\n\nOn a side-note, I think all mentors should urge the students in\nthe strongest possible terms to deliver their work to git@vger\nas soon as possible. From previous years experience, successful\nprojects are those that the list sees code from within a week\nor two after the project's started, while the projects that are\nkept in the dark rarely (if ever?) finish successfully.\n\n-- \nAndreas Ericsson andreas.ericsson@op5.se\nOP5 AB www.op5.se\nTel: +46 8-230225 Fax: +46 8-230231\n"},{"id":"100117","messageId":"200901121401.19116.chriscool@tuxfamily.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901102058220.3586@pacific.mpi-cbg.de","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Christian Couder","fromEmail":"chriscool@tuxfamily.org","sentAt":"2009-01-12T13:01:18Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T13:01:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"christian.couder@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/208954?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nLe samedi 10 janvier 2009, Johannes Schindelin a écrit :\n> Hi,\n>\n> On Sat, 10 Jan 2009, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > \"Shawn O. Pearce\" writes:\n> > > The application answers really need to be reworked; we need to\n> > > address our 2008 results in these parts.\n> >\n> > By the way, do you know what happened with git-sequencer project?\n>\n> -- snip --\n> commit 3bfd6761ce2f769746c6b84be97f7da0cad7cad1\n> Author: Stephan Beyer \n> Date: Wed Jan 7 19:07:31 2009 +0100\n>\n> builtin-sequencer.c/prepare_commit_msg_hook: tiny simplification\n>\n> Thanks to Christian.\n> -- snap --\n\nYes, Stephan, Daniel and me are still working on it but very slowly.\nYou can see what happens on the repo here:\n\nhttp://repo.or.cz/w/git/sbeyer.git?a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/seq-builtin-dev\n\nMay be we should move our discussions, patches and everything on the git \nmailing list as it may motivate us and people on the list to help.\n\nOne good thing too would be if Stephan could share is todo list.\n\nBy the way don't hesitate to put us in CC :-)\n\nRegards,\nChristian.\n"},{"id":"100118","messageId":"200901121420.25420.chriscool@tuxfamily.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"496B2690.2010902@op5.se","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Christian Couder","fromEmail":"chriscool@tuxfamily.org","sentAt":"2009-01-12T13:20:25Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T13:20:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"christian.couder@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/208954?v=4"},"body":"Le lundi 12 janvier 2009, Andreas Ericsson a écrit :\n> Just chiming in that I can probably help mentoring whoever goes\n> with libgit2. I do not have enough spare time for me to promise\n> that I can be there as much as I think is necessary and proper,\n> but I'll gladly help out.\n>\n> On a side-note, I think all mentors should urge the students in\n> the strongest possible terms to deliver their work to git@vger\n> as soon as possible. \n\nI agree, but I think there is also a merge problem. I mean we should also \nperhaps urge students to get what they have done merged as soon as possible \neven if it means that they rework 5 or 10 time the code instead of \ndeveloping features according to the schedule.\n\nBut unfortunately even something merged into next can be removed afterwards, \nso it's really difficult, because big features cannot for obvious reasons \nbe merged into master and the git release cycle doesn't always go along \nwell with the GSoC schedule.\n\n> From previous years experience, successful \n> projects are those that the list sees code from within a week\n> or two after the project's started, while the projects that are\n> kept in the dark rarely (if ever?) finish successfully.\n\nI don't think things are so simple.\n\nRegards,\nChristian.\n"},{"id":"100119","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901121421530.3586@pacific.mpi-cbg.de","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"496B2690.2010902@op5.se","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2009-01-12T13:25:04Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T13:25:04Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n\n> Just chiming in that I can probably help mentoring whoever goes with \n> libgit2. I do not have enough spare time for me to promise that I can be \n> there as much as I think is necessary and proper, but I'll gladly help \n> out.\n\nI don't know if I like co-mentoring; I always had the impression that this \ndoes not work all that well.\n\n> On a side-note, I think all mentors should urge the students in the \n> strongest possible terms to deliver their work to git@vger as soon as \n> possible. From previous years experience, successful projects are those \n> that the list sees code from within a week or two after the project's \n> started, while the projects that are kept in the dark rarely (if ever?) \n> finish successfully.\n\nNope, that is just plainly incorrect.\n\nThe most successful GSoC project we had was Miklos' builtin-merge, but the \ncode had to grow to a state that both him and me were comfortable with a \nsubmission to git@vger.\n\nThe _communication_ should be open, and much of it on the mailing list, I \nagree, but _only_ after the student is familiar enough with the aspects of \nher project (including some familiarity with the source code).\n\nI will _not_ force a student to ask questions openly that he finds \nembarassing.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"100128","messageId":"20090112153322.GA10179@spearce.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901121421530.3586@pacific.mpi-cbg.de","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2009-01-12T15:33:22Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T15:33:22Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n> \n> > Just chiming in that I can probably help mentoring whoever goes with \n> > libgit2. I do not have enough spare time for me to promise that I can be \n> > there as much as I think is necessary and proper, but I'll gladly help \n> > out.\n> \n> I don't know if I like co-mentoring; I always had the impression that this \n> does not work all that well.\n\nI haven't tried it myself, so I can't comment. I thought though\nthat Daniel and Christian's mentoring went rather well, but maybe\nthat's just me.\n\nThis year I may not be able to be a mentor for GSoC. Even assuming\nwe are selected again we're likely to only have two students, given\nthe size of the program and the size of our organization's community.\nI will most likely be hosting an intern at day-job, and I do want\nto maintain some sort of contribution to Git, without hurting my\nday job performance... so my time this summer is probably going to\nbe somewhat limited.\n\n> > On a side-note, I think all mentors should urge the students in the \n> > strongest possible terms to deliver their work to git@vger as soon as \n> > possible. From previous years experience, successful projects are those \n> > that the list sees code from within a week or two after the project's \n> > started, while the projects that are kept in the dark rarely (if ever?) \n> > finish successfully.\n> \n> Nope, that is just plainly incorrect.\n> \n> The most successful GSoC project we had was Miklos' builtin-merge, but the \n> code had to grow to a state that both him and me were comfortable with a \n> submission to git@vger.\n\nHeh. I'd wager the most successful GSoC project was Marek's push\nsupport for JGit. Having ObjectWriter available has opened up\nthe doors to support a lot of code in JGit, like the full protocol\nsuite, and bundles. Without it I wouldn't have gotten as far as\nI did in Gerrit.\n\nIn terms of value, to me as a contributor, Marek's work gave me a\nfoundation we could build on and get stuff done. Miklos' merge is\ngreat, but I don't think we gained nearly as many features as we\ndid with Marek's contribution.\n\nAnyway, I don't want to get into a \"my student was better!\" contest.\nI just think that we had a very successful year this year, with a\nfew really great projects being contributed to the community as a\nresult of our students' hard work.\n \n> The _communication_ should be open, and much of it on the mailing list, I \n> agree, but _only_ after the student is familiar enough with the aspects of \n> her project (including some familiarity with the source code).\n>\n> I will _not_ force a student to ask questions openly that he finds \n> embarassing.\n\nI agree. The first few weeks are really critical to the student. They\nare still trying to find their way around the code base and don't want\nto look like an idiot. Nobody wants to look like an idiot, especially\nin public, and especially when they have been \"hired\" to do a particular\njob.\n\nBut... part of the reason GSoC exists is to get students involved\nin open source. The rest of us don't come to Git with mentors we\ncan ask the \"stupid\" questions to. We come here and have to ask\nwhat we need to ask, on the public mailing list, complete with\narchives for the rest of time. As mentors we should be trying to\nencourage our students to work in this, or any other, open source\ncommunity. GSoC is about getting these folks _involved_, so that\n40 years from now, open source is just as viable as it is today.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"100129","messageId":"20090112153510.GB10179@spearce.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"200901121420.25420.chriscool@tuxfamily.org","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2009-01-12T15:35:10Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T15:35:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Christian Couder wrote:\n> Le lundi 12 janvier 2009, Andreas Ericsson a écrit :\n> > From previous years experience, successful \n> > projects are those that the list sees code from within a week\n> > or two after the project's started, while the projects that are\n> > kept in the dark rarely (if ever?) finish successfully.\n> \n> I don't think things are so simple.\n\nNope, they aren't. But the pattern is generally there, when you\nlook at all GSoC projects in aggregate.\n\nStudents who are involved with their community are far more likely\nto have a successful project. In most communities, getting code\nposted on the discussion list and actually discussing it is a very\nimportant part of that involvement.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"100130","messageId":"20090112153735.GC10179@spearce.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"496B2690.2010902@op5.se","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2009-01-12T15:37:35Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T15:37:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n> Just chiming in that I can probably help mentoring whoever goes\n> with libgit2. I do not have enough spare time for me to promise\n> that I can be there as much as I think is necessary and proper,\n> but I'll gladly help out.\n\nThanks. I'd love to see a libgit2 project this summer.\n\nIf we do have such a thing, and if I'm still wearing the maintainer\nhat for libgit2, I think it would be improper for me to be the mentor\nfor the student. Just as Junio abstains from mentoring any students\nin GSoC, to prevent potential bias during patch review, I probably\nshould abstain in the case of libgit2. Or at least move the project\nto a dual-maintainer approach like we use with JGit, so the other\nmaintainer is the one doing the actual review and patch acceptance.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"100137","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901121811301.3586@pacific.mpi-cbg.de","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"20090112153322.GA10179@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2009-01-12T17:23:36Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T17:23:36Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n\n> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Andreas Ericsson wrote:\n> > \n> > > Just chiming in that I can probably help mentoring whoever goes with \n> > > libgit2. I do not have enough spare time for me to promise that I \n> > > can be there as much as I think is necessary and proper, but I'll \n> > > gladly help out.\n> > \n> > I don't know if I like co-mentoring; I always had the impression that \n> > this does not work all that well.\n> \n> I haven't tried it myself, so I can't comment. I thought though that \n> Daniel and Christian's mentoring went rather well, but maybe that's just \n> me.\n\nThat impression came from a few conversations at the mentor summit, BTW. \nI cannot really comment on C & D... as Christian pointed out, they are \nstill a bit secretive, even long after the official end of the project.\n\nHowever, I have to mention that some projects (SIP communicator for \nexample) made it a _requirement_ to have pairs of mentors. But then, they \nhad the \"disappearing mentor\" syndrome already, so who can blame them for \nthat.\n\n> This year I may not be able to be a mentor for GSoC.\n\nPity. But you started the preparation for the new application, thank you \nvery much. Will you be able to be administrator again?\n\n> Heh. I'd wager the most successful GSoC project was Marek's push \n> support for JGit. Having ObjectWriter available has opened up the doors \n> to support a lot of code in JGit, like the full protocol suite, and \n> bundles. Without it I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did in Gerrit.\n> \n> In terms of value, to me as a contributor, Marek's work gave me a \n> foundation we could build on and get stuff done. Miklos' merge is \n> great, but I don't think we gained nearly as many features as we did \n> with Marek's contribution.\n> \n> Anyway, I don't want to get into a \"my student was better!\" contest.\n\nHehe. I am very proud that we are able to hold such a contest.\n\n> I just think that we had a very successful year this year, with a\n> few really great projects being contributed to the community as a\n> result of our students' hard work.\n> \n> > The _communication_ should be open, and much of it on the mailing list, I \n> > agree, but _only_ after the student is familiar enough with the aspects of \n> > her project (including some familiarity with the source code).\n> >\n> > I will _not_ force a student to ask questions openly that he finds \n> > embarassing.\n> \n> I agree. The first few weeks are really critical to the student. They\n> are still trying to find their way around the code base and don't want\n> to look like an idiot. Nobody wants to look like an idiot, especially\n> in public, and especially when they have been \"hired\" to do a particular\n> job.\n> \n> But... part of the reason GSoC exists is to get students involved\n> in open source. The rest of us don't come to Git with mentors we\n> can ask the \"stupid\" questions to. We come here and have to ask\n> what we need to ask, on the public mailing list, complete with\n> archives for the rest of time. As mentors we should be trying to\n> encourage our students to work in this, or any other, open source\n> community.\n\nI do not think that both of your paragraphs contradict each other. Many \nstudents need a bit of hand-holding until they realize that everybody is \ncooking with water. At the end of the day, everybody has some brilliant \nand some stupid ideas.\n\nBut it takes some getting used to to voice ideas in public, risking some \nfriendly jokes about your mental state or the quality of your smokables.\n\nI actually see a lot of value in GSoC as a tools to get more students \nthrough that period, especially students from parts of this planet whose \nculture is so different from the \"Western\" culture shaped by \nTV, consumism and the lack of physical insecurity, that they are rather \nintimidated by the ways of Open Source.\n\n> GSoC is about getting these folks _involved_, so that 40 years from now, \n> open source is just as viable as it is today.\n\nIt will probably take over even more of our world.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"100144","messageId":"20090112174809.GK10179@spearce.org","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0901121811301.3586@pacific.mpi-cbg.de","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2009-01-12T17:48:09Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-12T17:48:09Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> \n> > This year I may not be able to be a mentor for GSoC.\n> \n> Pity. But you started the preparation for the new application, thank you \n> very much. Will you be able to be administrator again?\n\nYes, I can certainly do the administrative functions again this year,\nand would be more than happy to do it. Most of it happens before the\nstudents start work, and thus before any theoretical intern would\nalso join me at day-job. To be honest I spend most of the time on\nthe org application itself; its all down hill from there.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"100487","messageId":"20090114220112.GC32313@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"17039","inReplyTo":"m3privyn20.fsf@localhost.localdomain","subject":"Re: Google Summer of Code 2009","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2009-01-14T22:01:12Z","receivedAt":"2009-01-14T22:01:12Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nJakub Narebski wrote:\n> By the way, do you know what happened with git-sequencer project? \n> \n> If I remember correctly there was agreement on sequences mini-language\n> (I think), and there was git-sequencer prototype in shell, using\n> git-cherry-pick if I remember correctly, and even git-rebase and\n> git-am etc reworked to make use of git-sequencer. Stephan Beyer wrote\n> that he has some preliminary version of builtin git-sequencer (in C),\n> and that it makes git-rebase--interactive and like faster than current\n> implementation... but builtin sequencer never materialized on git\n> mailing list as a patch, if I remember correctly, and of course it was\n> not merged into git either.\n\nYou remember and conclude correctly.\n\nAs Christian pointed out, we are working on it. Development didn't make\nany real progress for a long time because of different personal reasons.\n(If you're interested: an important exam at the end of September,\nsome other work besides, wrong priorities in time management,\nsome kind of \"burnout\" after the exam which made me avoid any kind of\nproductive work for a long time... it went away in between but came back\nlater...)\n\nNow, again, I'm highly motivated to get it merged into pu or next before\nthe end of January. I hope, Christian or Daniel will kick me in the back\nif this is not going to happen :-)\nThe next days some tiny and some bigger patches will follow. Commits\nthat have been lying around in my repo for a _long_ time.\n\nIn this time I try to address the rest of my TODO list which emerged\nfrom a very chaotic sticky note[1] and is, well, just chaotic.\nIt contains items about...\n - some internal changes (simplifications, code reuse),\n - some changes in the output of sequencer,\n - some better code documentation (one item for a part of sequencer\n itself, one item for its test suite t3350),\n - check some stuff and fix if needed\n (e.g. whether sequencer changes this or that behavior (for\n rebase or am) that I haven't taken care of yet),\n - and the last item is to check/incorporate the git-rebase --root\n patches and/or fix sequencer to work with them (if needed).\n (I haven't taken one look at these patches, so I don't know\n if it's really necessary.)\n\nIt's not too much, but every single change can generate a bug\nand, thus, hassle. :-)\n\nWell, this is the current state of the git-sequencer project.\nThanks for the question and the prodding in the other thread (although\nthe problem there was solved much simpler without sequencer.)\n\nRegards,\n Stephan\n\nFootnotes.\n 1. I mean those fancy yellow desktop notes provided by tools like\n \"knotes\" -- now uninstalled from my desktop machine, because\n there are *useful* tools like outliners that _help_ to\n manage ideas, todo lists, etc in a non-chaotic way.\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"}]}