{"thread":{"id":"16903","subject":"some git-commands --help don't act like git commands --help","startedAt":"2008-12-29T06:25:51Z","lastAt":"2008-12-29T23:19:10Z","messageCount":9,"participants":["jidanni@jidanni.org","Nanako Shiraishi","Michael Gaber","Junio C Hamano","Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.","A Large Angry SCM"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"98860","messageId":"87iqp333bk.fsf@jidanni.org","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"some git-commands --help don't act like git commands --help","fromName":"","fromEmail":"jidanni@jidanni.org","sentAt":"2008-12-29T06:25:51Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T06:25:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jidanni@jidanni.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/36568d4af4c8d3e71627ef3b8c8d00e39065b12f29676cccd38ced75e68fa2a6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Hmmm, some git-commands --help act just like git commands --help,\n$ git commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n336\n$ git-commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n336\n\nBut others don't\n$ git am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n152\n$ git-am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n19\n\n$ git --version\ngit version 1.5.6.5\non Debian sid.\n"},{"id":"98873","messageId":"20081229175305.6117@nanako3.lavabit.com","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"87iqp333bk.fsf@jidanni.org","subject":"Re: some git-commands --help don't act like git commands --help","fromName":"Nanako Shiraishi","fromEmail":"nanako3@lavabit.com","sentAt":"2008-12-29T08:53:05Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T08:53:05Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"nanako3@lavabit.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/3777b9e201c5883a62b1a6fdf7c53f2d712d1d80989146063ea861e33aad72a8?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Quoting jidanni@jidanni.org:\n\n> Hmmm, some git-commands --help act just like git commands --help,\n> $ git commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n> 336\n> $ git-commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n> 336\n>\n> But others don't\n> $ git am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n> 152\n> $ git-am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n> 19\n\nThank you for your observation; what do you want to do about it?\n\nAre you complaining that some commands do not have customized description that is not as long as the full manual page but not as terse as the short help \"-h\" output? Or are you complaining some other commands do not give you full manual pages for \"--help\"?\n\n-- \nNanako Shiraishi\nhttp://ivory.ap.teacup.com/nanako3/\n"},{"id":"98879","messageId":"49589CD7.4070104@gmx.net","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"20081229175305.6117@nanako3.lavabit.com","subject":"Re: some git-commands --help don't act like git commands --help","fromName":"Michael Gaber","fromEmail":"michael.gaber@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-12-29T09:48:07Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T09:48:07Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"michael.gaber@gmx.net","avatar":null},"body":"Nanako Shiraishi schrieb:\n> Quoting jidanni@jidanni.org:\n> \n>> Hmmm, some git-commands --help act just like git commands --help,\n>> $ git commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 336\n>> $ git-commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 336\n>>\n>> But others don't\n>> $ git am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 152\n>> $ git-am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 19\n> \n> Thank you for your observation; what do you want to do about it?\n> \n> Are you complaining that some commands do not have customized description that is not as long as the full manual page but not as terse as the short help \"-h\" output? Or are you complaining some other commands do not give you full manual pages for \"--help\"?\n> \n\nI think he just wantet to state that the output of git-command --help\nand git command --help should be identical as the both do the same\nthing, don't they?\n\nRegards Michael\n"},{"id":"98881","messageId":"7vfxk7cnmw.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"20081229175305.6117@nanako3.lavabit.com","subject":"Re: some git-commands --help don't act like git commands --help","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-12-29T09:54:31Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T09:54:31Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Nanako Shiraishi writes:\n\n> Quoting jidanni@jidanni.org:\n>\n>> Hmmm, some git-commands --help act just like git commands --help,\n>> $ git commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 336\n>> $ git-commit --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 336\n>>\n>> But others don't\n>> $ git am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 152\n>> $ git-am --help 2>&1|wc -l\n>> 19\n>\n> Thank you for your observation; what do you want to do about it?\n>\n> Are you complaining that some commands do not have customized description that is not as long as the full manual page but not as terse as the short help \"-h\" output? Or are you complaining some other commands do not give you full manual pages for \"--help\"?\n\nI think he is comparing \"git am\" and \"git-am\" the latter of which is now\ndeprecated and largely removed from the end user.\n\nIOW, the seeming inconsistency is not an issue anymore in practice in the\npost 1.6.0 era.\n"},{"id":"98910","messageId":"87sko6lqmo.fsf_-_@jidanni.org","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"7vfxk7cnmw.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"\"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"?","fromName":"","fromEmail":"jidanni@jidanni.org","sentAt":"2008-12-29T19:37:19Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T19:37:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jidanni@jidanni.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/36568d4af4c8d3e71627ef3b8c8d00e39065b12f29676cccd38ced75e68fa2a6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"JCH> I think he is comparing \"git am\" and \"git-am\" the latter of which is now\nJCH> deprecated and largely removed from the end user.\n\nBy the way, we here at the end user end have a hard time detecting if\n\"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"...\n\nIdea: right at top of \"man git\" say: You might have noticed sometimes\npeople write \"git-whatever\" and sometimes write \"git whatever\", well ...\n\nJCH> IOW, the seeming inconsistency is not an issue anymore in practice in the\nJCH> post 1.6.0 era.\n\n(I was just hoping everything is consistent, one way or the other.)\n"},{"id":"98913","messageId":"200812291447.01713.bss@iguanasuicide.net","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"87sko6lqmo.fsf_-_@jidanni.org","subject":"Re: \"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"?","fromName":"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.","fromEmail":"bss@iguanasuicide.net","sentAt":"2008-12-29T20:47:01Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T20:47:01Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"bss@iguanasuicide.net","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/84b95eeff194b816c1568b1339e63e4b229825298664a9037b9f1ec713ead1e3?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Monday 2008 December 29 13:37:19 jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:\n> JCH> I think he is comparing \"git am\" and \"git-am\" the latter of which is\n> JCH> now deprecated and largely removed from the end user.\n>\n> By the way, we here at the end user end have a hard time detecting if\n> \"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"...\n\nThat shouldn't be a problem for much longer because \"git-whatever\" will stop \nworking. From what I understand, \"git whatever\" has always been the \npreferred form, and the fact that \"git-whatever\" worked was just a \nimplementation detail.\n-- \nBoyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. \nbss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\\_))\nICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' \nhttp://iguanasuicide.net/ \\_/ \n"},{"id":"98915","messageId":"495940AD.2070602@gmail.com","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"200812291447.01713.bss@iguanasuicide.net","subject":"Re: \"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"?","fromName":"A Large Angry SCM","fromEmail":"gitzilla@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-12-29T21:27:09Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T21:27:09Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitzilla@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/354625c442439908ff3dd99757dee330e29e9df7847472384faf7a00add247fb?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:\n> On Monday 2008 December 29 13:37:19 jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:\n>> JCH> I think he is comparing \"git am\" and \"git-am\" the latter of which is\n>> JCH> now deprecated and largely removed from the end user.\n>>\n>> By the way, we here at the end user end have a hard time detecting if\n>> \"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"...\n> \n> That shouldn't be a problem for much longer because \"git-whatever\" will stop \n> working. From what I understand, \"git whatever\" has always been the \n> preferred form, and the fact that \"git-whatever\" worked was just a \n> implementation detail.\n\nThis is a revisionist history. Check the history of the git command to \nfind out when it was created and then check the ML archives for related \ndiscussions.\n"},{"id":"98923","messageId":"87ocyu4o6e.fsf@jidanni.org","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"495940AD.2070602@gmail.com","subject":"Re: \"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"?","fromName":"","fromEmail":"jidanni@jidanni.org","sentAt":"2008-12-29T22:22:17Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T22:22:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jidanni@jidanni.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/36568d4af4c8d3e71627ef3b8c8d00e39065b12f29676cccd38ced75e68fa2a6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":">> That shouldn't be a problem for much longer because \"git-whatever\"\n>> will stop working. From what I understand, \"git whatever\" has\n>> always been the preferred form, and the fact that \"git-whatever\"\n>> worked was just a implementation detail.\n\nI thought if A worked from the start, and now B also works, you all\nmust have been moving to B, and so I made all my shell scripts use B.\n\nALAS> This is a revisionist history. Check the history of the git command to\nALAS> find out when it was created and then check the ML archives for\nALAS> related discussions.\n\nAll I know is we beginners just encounter both forms in the literature\nand won't know about looking into whatever histories... and assumed until\nthis post that git-whatever was the new style! OK, now I know the truth.\n"},{"id":"98927","messageId":"873ag64ljl.fsf@jidanni.org","threadId":"16903","inReplyTo":"495940AD.2070602@gmail.com","subject":"Re: \"git-whatever\" the new style vs. \"git whatever\"?","fromName":"","fromEmail":"jidanni@jidanni.org","sentAt":"2008-12-29T23:19:10Z","receivedAt":"2008-12-29T23:19:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jidanni@jidanni.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/36568d4af4c8d3e71627ef3b8c8d00e39065b12f29676cccd38ced75e68fa2a6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"I swear we new users would have never guessed that git-whatever was\nyes the new, but _deprecated_ style, until we asked on this newslist,\nand today chucked Debian sid for Debian experimental, to see the\nfollowing. OK. Good to finally know. I feel sorry for all the Debian\nSid users who haven't heard the news and are putting the soon to break\nform into their scripts and newsposts. Indeed, you on the mailing list\ncould point out to any users that what they just posted is going to\nbreak soon.\n\nWait, e.g., git commit --help, man git-commit, etc. are still full of\nthe old notation here now in 1.6.0...\n\n--- News for git-core (git-core git-email gitk) ---\ngit-core (1:1.6.0-1) experimental; urgency=low\n\n Most of the programs are now installed outside the default $PATH,\n except for \"git\", \"gitk\" and some server side programs that need\n to be accessible for technical reasons. Invoking a git subcommand\n as \"git-xyzzy\" from the command line has been deprecated since\n early 2006 (and officially announced in the 1.5.4 release notes);\n using the \"git-xyzzy\" form in scripts after adding the output from\n \"git --exec-path\" to the $PATH is still supported in this release,\n but users are again strongly encouraged to adjust their scripts to\n use the \"git xyzzy\" form, as this support might be dropped in later\n releases.\n\n -- Gerrit Pape Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:31:44 +0000\n"}]}