{"thread":{"id":"14609","subject":"[RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","startedAt":"2008-07-23T01:25:03Z","lastAt":"2008-09-01T07:47:49Z","messageCount":93,"participants":["Jakub Narebski","Junio C Hamano","Miklos Vajna","Johannes Schindelin","Stephan Beyer","Dmitry Potapov","Robin Rosenberg","Matthias Kestenholz","Alex Riesen","Petr Baudis","Miguel Arroz","david@lang.hm","Sverre Rabbelier","Marek Zawirski","Jon Loeliger","Lachele Foley (Lists)","Shawn O. Pearce","Jing Xue","Scott Chacon","Jean-François Veillette","Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy","Abhijit Bhopatkar","Mike Gant","Garry Dolley","Paolo Ciarrocchi"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"84428","messageId":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"[RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T01:25:03Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T01:25:03Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"It's been around a year since last Git User's Survey. It would be\ninteresting to find what changed since then. For example to see if \nthere were visible improvements in easing learning curve and in \nusability. Therefore the idea to have another survey.\n\n(If there is no suck^W volunteer to create survey, announce it, and \nfinally summarize results and publish summary on Git Wiki, I would do \nthe 2008 survey.)\n\n\nFirst there is a question about the form of survey. Should we use web\nbased survey, as the survey before (http://www.survey.net.nz), sending\nemails with link to this survey, or perhaps do email based survey,\nwith email Reply-To: address put for this survey alone? Should we use \nthe same web survey service as before (found by Paolo Ciarrocchi for \nfirst, 2006 survey, and used also for 2007 survey), or is there one \nbetter (it would better be free, and without limitations on the number \nof responses; in 2006 there were around 117 responses, in 2007 there \nwere 683 individual responses).\n\nSecond, what questions should be put in the survey, and in the case of\nsingle choice and ultiple choice questions what possible answers\nshould be? I'd rather avoid free-form questions, even if they are more \ninteresting, as they are PITA to analyse and summarize, especially to \ncreate some kind of histogram from free-form replies data (some of 2007 \nfree-form responses are not fully summarized even now). Below are \nslightly extended questions from the last survey. Please comment on \nit.\n\nThird, where to send survey to / where to publish information about the \nsurvey? Last year the announcement was send to git mailing list, to\nLKML (Linux kernel mailing list), and mailing list for git projects \nfound on GitProjects page on GIT wiki. Now that the number of projects \nusing Git as version control system has grown, I don't think it would \nbe good idea to \"spam\" all those mailing list; and if we don't send \nnotice to all other projects I'm not sure if we should include LKML.\nLast year survey announcement was put on Git Homepage (thanks Pasky), \nand on front page of Git Wiki; info about survey was also put on two \ngit hosting sites: kernel.org and repo.or.cz. It would be nice if it \nwas possible to put announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 at front \npages of other Git hosting sites, like GitHub (one of most popular, I \nthink), Gitorious, Freedesktop.org. If you know some other popular Git \nhosting sites, and even better if you know who to contact about putting \nsurvey announcement, please write. Is there some channel that I have \nforgot about? Should info/announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 be \nsent also to one of on-line magazines like LinuxToday or LWN, or asked \nto put on some blog? I'll add it as journal entry for #git on Ohloh, \nand try to make it so it would appear in \"News\" section for Ohloh \nproject page for Git: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/git.\n\nFourth, how long should the survey last? When sending announcement we \nshould say where notice about Git User's Survey 2008 should be taken \ndown. Last year the survey was meant to take three weeks, but was up \nlonger.\n\n\nBelow there is initial version of announcement email (I should probably \ncome up also with boilerplate announcement for web pages), and initial \nversion of this year round of questions. Comments are prefixed by '+',\nand does not mean to be included in the survey text.\n\n----\nHi all,\n\nWe would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the Git\nversion control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\nusing Git, how and why.\n\nThe results will be published to the Git wiki and discussed on the git\nmailing list.\n\nWe'll close the survey in starting from today, .\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple\nquestionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your\nneeds, what you like of git, and of course what you don't like of it.\n\nThe survey can be found here:\n \n----\nAbout you\n\n 01. What country are you in?\n 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n 03. How old are you (in years)?\n (free form, integer)\n 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n Ruby,...?)\n\n\nGetting started with GIT\n\n 05. How did you hear about Git?\n (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n IRC, mailing list, other Internet, other off-line, other(*)\n + the problem is with having not very long list (not too many\n choices), but spanning all possibilities.\n + is this question interesting/important to have in survey?\n 06. Did you find GIT easy to learn?\n - very easy/easy/reasonably/hard/very hard\n 07. What helped you most in learning to use it?\n (free form question)\n 08. What did you find hardest in learning Git?\n What did you find harderst in using Git?\n (free form question)\n 09. When did you start using git? From which version?\n - pre 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5\n + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n + perhaps we should ask in addition to this question, or in place\n of this question (replacing it) what git version one uses; it\n should be multiple choice, and allow 'master', 'next', 'pu',\n 'dirty (with own modifications)' versions in addition.\n\n\nOther SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n\n 10. What other SCM did or do you use?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - CVS, Subversion, GNU Arch or arch clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev, Perforce,\n BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe, MS Visual Studio\n Team System, custom, other(*)\n 10b.If you selected other above, what SCM it was?\n (free form)\n 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n What do you like about using Git?\n (free form, not to be tabulated)\n 12. Why did you choose other SCMs? (if you use other SCMs)\n What do you like about using other SCMs?\n Note: please write name of SCMs you are talking about.\n (free form, not to be tabulated).\n\n\nHow you use Git\n\n 13. Do you use Git for work, unpaid projects, or both?\n (single choice)\n - work/unpaid projects/both\n 14. How do you obtain Git?\n - binary package/source package or source script(*)/\n source tarball/pull from main repository\n (*) this includes source based distributions like Gentoo\n + added new option: source package or source script\n + should this be multiple choice?\n 15. What operating system do you use Git on?\n (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n - Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n + \"What hardware platforms do you use GIT on?\" question was\n removed; should it stay?\n 15b.If you selected \"other UNIX\", or \"other\", what operating system\n or systems it was/were?\n (free form)\n 16. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - core-git, Cogito (deprecated), StGIT, Guilt, pg (deprecated),\n Pyrite, Easy Git, IsiSetup, jgit, my own scripts, other\n 16b.If you selected \"other porcelain\", what is its name?\n (free form)\n 17. Which git GUI (commit tool or history viewer, or both) do you use\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - CLI, gitk, git-gui, qgit, gitview, giggle, tig, instaweb,\n (h)gct, qct, KGit, git-cola / ugit, GitNub, Pyrite, git.el, other\n 17b.If you selected \"other GUI\", what is its name?\n (free form)\n 18. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), other\n + should there be a question about web server (Apache, IIS, ...)\n used to host git web interface?\n 18b.If you selected \"other web interface\", what it was?\n (free form)\n 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n 19b.If the way you publish your changes is not mentioned above, how\n do you publish your changes?\n (free form)\n 20. Does git.git repository include code produced by you?\n - yes/no\n\n\nWhat you think of Git\n\n 21. Overall, how happy are you with Git?\n - unhappy/not so happy/happy/very happy/completely ecstatic\n 22. How does Git compare to other SCM tools you have used?\n - worse/equal (or comparable)/better\n 23. What would you most like to see improved about Git?\n (features, bugs, plug-ins, documentation, ...)\n 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n think we could do to make this happen?\n + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we need wider adoption?\n\n\nChanges in Git (since year ago, or since you started using it)\n\n 25. Did you participate in previous Git User's Surveys?\n (zero or more, multiple choice)\n - 2006, 2007\n 26. How do you compare current version with version from year ago?\n - current version is: better/worse/no changes\n 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n templates, bisect, other (not mentioned here)\n + should probably be sorted in some resemblance of order\n + are there any new features which should be listed here?\n 28. If you use some important Git features not mentioned above,\n what are it?\n (free form)\n\n\nDocumentation\n\n 29. Do you use the Git wiki?\n - yes/no\n 30. Do you find Git wiki useful?\n - yes/no/somewhat\n 31. Do you contribute to Git wiki?\n - yes/no/only corrections or spam removal\n 32. Do you find Git's on-line help (homepage, documentation) useful?\n - yes/no/somewhat\n 33. Do you find help distributed with Git useful\n (manpages, manual, tutorial, HOWTO, release notes)?\n - yes/no/somewhat\n 34. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n (free form)\n 35. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n (free form)\n\n\nGetting help, staying in touch\n\n 36. Have you tried to get Git help from other people?\n - yes/no\n 37. What channel did you use to request help?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - git mailing list, git users group, IRC, blog post, \n other\n + this is one question which doesn't need, I think, explanation\n of \"other\" choice\n 38. If yes, did you get these problems resolved quickly\n and to your liking?\n - yes/no\n 39. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor\n be of interest to you/your organization?\n - yes/no/not applicable\n 40. Do you read the mailing list?\n - yes/no\n 41. If yes, do you find it useful?\n - yes/no (optional)\n 42. Do you find traffic levels on Git mailing list OK.\n - yes/no? (optional)\n 43. Do you use the IRC channel (#git on irc.freenode.net)?\n - yes/no\n 44. If yes, do you find IRC channel useful?\n - yes/no (optional)\n 45. Did you have problems getting GIT help on mailing list or\n on IRC channel? What were it? What could be improved?\n (free form)\n\nOpen forum\n\n 46. What other comments or suggestions do you have that are not\n covered by the questions above?\n (free form)\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84437","messageId":"7vsku1gqny.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T04:39:29Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T04:39:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski writes:\n\n> 15. What operating system do you use Git on?\n> (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n> - Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n> MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n\nShouldn't we at least name the ones we have specific support in our\nMakefile instead of blanketting them into one \"other Unices\"? We may not\nnecessarily want to list all of them, but at least major ones like SunOS,\nHP-UX and AIX deserve to be listed, methinks.\n\n> + \"What hardware platforms do you use GIT on?\" question was\n> removed; should it stay?\n\nI think the removal of \"hardware platform\" question is a good idea.\n\n> 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n> think we could do to make this happen?\n> + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we need wider adoption?\n\nMy stance on this has always been that wider adoption, even though it\nmight eventually come as a consequence of being the best in the field, is\nnever a goal.\n\n> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n> gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n> shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n> add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n> templates, bisect, other (not mentioned here)\n> + should probably be sorted in some resemblance of order\n> + are there any new features which should be listed here?\n\nThe above is a valid and interesting question, but \"Which features do you\nfind unique and useful ones, compared to other systems?\" would be another\ninteresting question to ask to people with experience with other systems.\n\n> 28. If you use some important Git features not mentioned above,\n> what are it?\n> (free form)\n\n\"rerere\"?\n\n> 40. Do you read the mailing list?\n> - yes/no\n\nWhich mailing list? Do we want to ask about alternative lists?\n\nI am not sure how and where, but I think j/egit should also be\nmentioned and/or asked about.\n"},{"id":"84445","messageId":"20080723074747.GA32057@genesis.frugalware.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7vsku1gqny.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"HP-UX issues (WAS: Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008)","fromName":"Miklos Vajna","fromEmail":"vmiklos@frugalware.org","sentAt":"2008-07-23T07:47:47Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T07:47:47Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"vmiklos@frugalware.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/401c1cbbb3a5d13e650c691a2c71d6fd0b80df1a01bc74d9f1972675dd58f2bd?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:39:29PM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski writes:\n> \n> > 15. What operating system do you use Git on?\n> > (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n> > - Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n> > MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n> \n> Shouldn't we at least name the ones we have specific support in our\n> Makefile instead of blanketting them into one \"other Unices\"? We may not\n> necessarily want to list all of them, but at least major ones like SunOS,\n> HP-UX and AIX deserve to be listed, methinks.\n\nLast time I checked git did not build on HP-UX (11.11) out of the box\nbecause its 'install' did not support -d nor -m. There are a few more\nissues installed here:\n\nhttp://hpux.connect.org.uk/hppd/cgi-bin/wwwtar?/hpux/Development/Tools/git-1.5.6.2/git-1.5.6.2-src-11.11.tar.gz+git-1.5.6.2/HPUX.Install+text\n\nSo I think the word \"we support\" is a bit too strong. ;-)\n\nBeing more constructive, what a user using HP-UX is supported to do?\n\n1) Use the patched git from HP.\n\n2) Have coreutils installed. (But then I think it would be good to list\nthis dependency in INSTALL.)\n\n3) Patch git to use automake's install-sh. (Would such a patch be ever\naccepted?)\n\nThanks.\n\nPS: No, I rarely use git on HP-UX, but I would be happy to bring the\nequivalent of HP's most changes to git.git if possible.\n"},{"id":"84454","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231128090.2830@eeepc-johanness","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-07-23T09:53:27Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T09:53:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> First there is a question about the form of survey. Should we use web\n> based survey, as the survey before (http://www.survey.net.nz), sending\n> emails with link to this survey, or perhaps do email based survey,\n> with email Reply-To: address put for this survey alone?\n\nSome people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n\n> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> Ruby,...?)\n\nYes, I think this should be a long list.\n\n> 07. What helped you most in learning to use it?\n> (free form question)\n\nIs it possible to have multiple choice, with \"other\" (free-form)? Then \nI'd suggest:\n\n\tColleague/Instructor, User Manual, Manpages, Tutorials, Tutorials \n\t(elsewhere; not in git.git), Mailing list, IRC, Git Wiki, Other.\n\n> 08. What did you find hardest in learning Git?\n> What did you find harderst in using Git?\n\ns/harderst/hardest.\n\n> (free form question)\n\nAgain, I'd suggest a multiple choice + Other:\n\n\tThe amount of commands, the amount of options, the index (AKA \n\tstaging), branching, user interface, bugs, Other.\n\n> Other SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n> \n> 10. What other SCM did or do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - CVS, Subversion, GNU Arch or arch clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n> Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev, Perforce,\n> BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe, MS Visual Studio\n> Team System, custom, other(*)\n\nPVCS seems to be pretty popular, too.\n\n> 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n> What do you like about using Git?\n> (free form, not to be tabulated)\n\nAgain, to avoid hassles with free-form:\n\n\tMandatory: work, mandatory: open source project I am participating \n\tin, speed, scalability, It's What Linus Uses, Other.\n\n> 12. Why did you choose other SCMs? (if you use other SCMs)\n> What do you like about using other SCMs?\n> Note: please write name of SCMs you are talking about.\n> (free form, not to be tabulated).\n\nAgain:\n\n\tease-of use, simplicity, existing project uses it, I Do Not Like \n\tLinus, Other\n\n> 15. What operating system do you use Git on?\n> (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n> - Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n> MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n\nYou should include \"Dunno\", which gets automatically mapped to \"MS \nWindows/msysGit\" ;-)\n\n> 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n\ngit svn\n\nYou might laugh, but it is a sad fact that some guy promotes \"Using Git \nwith Google Code\" by using git-svn to drive their crappy Subversion.\n\n> 22. How does Git compare to other SCM tools you have used?\n> - worse/equal (or comparable)/better\n> 23. What would you most like to see improved about Git?\n> (features, bugs, plug-ins, documentation, ...)\n\nMaybe here should be another question \"What are the most useful features \nof Git?\" but maybe that is covered by earlier questions.\n\n> 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n> think we could do to make this happen?\n> + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we need wider adoption?\n\nI agree with Junio: this is not so interesting for us; we are no company, \nand we have no sales department who could wank of on these answers.\n\n> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n\nFor our Windows friends, we should add \" (crlf)\" to the last item.\n\n> 42. Do you find traffic levels on Git mailing list OK.\n> - yes/no? (optional)\n\n/too low? *ducksandrunsforcover*\n\n> 44. If yes, do you find IRC channel useful?\n> - yes/no (optional)\n\n/somewhat. Even if I would be the only one choosing that option.\n\n> 45. Did you have problems getting GIT help on mailing list or\n> on IRC channel? What were it? What could be improved?\n> (free form)\n\nYeah, I know who will answer to that, and what... \"yaddayadda very \nunfriendly yaddayadda especially that Johannes guy yaddayadda\" (you know \nwho you are)... *lol*\n\nThanks Jakub, I think that your effort is very useful.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"84466","messageId":"200807231306.43953.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7vsku1gqny.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T11:06:42Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T11:06:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski writes:\n> \n> > 15. What operating system do you use Git on?\n> > (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n> > - Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n> > MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n> \n> Shouldn't we at least name the ones we have specific support in our\n> Makefile instead of blanketting them into one \"other Unices\"? We may not\n> necessarily want to list all of them, but at least major ones like SunOS,\n> HP-UX and AIX deserve to be listed, methinks.\n\nThere will be a place to specify what \"other Unices\" one uses; in last\nsurvey (see http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007) there were 5 SunOS\nusers, and only 1 for HP-UX and 1 for AIX (unless I have miscounted:\nit was free form question in 2007 survey).\n\nBut perhaps it would be good idea to add Solaris, SunOS, AIX, HP-UX,\nand perhaps also \"MS Windows (unknown)\" to the list.\n\n> > + \"What hardware platforms do you use GIT on?\" question was\n> > removed; should it stay?\n> \n> I think the removal of \"hardware platform\" question is a good idea.\n\nI was thinking about adding \"Number of cores, and number of CPUs\"\nquestion instead; it might be also interesting how many people use\n32-bit machine (e.g. i386), and how much 64-bit (e.g. x86_64).\n\nBut this is just curiosity; I don't think it matters to Git code what\nmachine it is run on. Operating system info is more important, as\nsome of OS are either not POSIX, or have default filesystems with\nstrange features.\n\nAnd I'd rather limit number of questions in the survey...\n\n> > 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n> > think we could do to make this happen?\n> > + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we need wider adoption?\n> \n> My stance on this has always been that wider adoption, even though it\n> might eventually come as a consequence of being the best in the field, is\n> never a goal.\n\nO.K. I'll remove this question, then. Which is nice, as I'd rather\nhave this survey be shorter (it is easier both on survey takers, and\nalso later in survey analysis).\n\n> > 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> > management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n> > gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n> > shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n> > add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n> > templates, bisect, other (not mentioned here)\n> > + should probably be sorted in some resemblance of order\n> > + are there any new features which should be listed here?\n\nI forgot about \"keeping uncommitted changes in working tree\", aka\n\"working with dirty tree\" (I don't know if it is popular enough\nto be included, but it _is_ one of distinguishing features).\n \n> The above is a valid and interesting question, but \"Which features do you\n> find unique and useful ones, compared to other systems?\" would be another\n> interesting question to ask to people with experience with other systems.\n\nGood idea. I think I add it to the survey.\n\n> > 28. If you use some important Git features not mentioned above,\n> > what are it?\n> > (free form)\n> \n> \"rerere\"?\n\nAs it is not visible feature, one might use it without knowledge of it.\nThat is why I am reluctant to include it in the above list. One can\nalways add it in free-form.\n\n> > 40. Do you read the mailing list?\n> > - yes/no\n> \n> Which mailing list? Do we want to ask about alternative lists?\n> \n> I am not sure how and where, but I think j/egit should also be\n> mentioned and/or asked about.\n\nGood idea. So it would be... err, I realized that I don't know if\nj/egit has separate mailing list, and what it is. egit is listed\nin \"porcelains\" one can use.\n\nNevertheless it would be good, I think, to expand list of possible\nchoices for this question:\n\n 40. Do you read the mailing list?\n (multiple choice: zero or more; \"none\" is just in case)\n - none/git@vger.kernel.org/Git For Human Beings/msysGit\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84481","messageId":"200807231508.42334.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231128090.2830@eeepc-johanness","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T13:08:38Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T13:08:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> \n> Some people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n> \n> > 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> > (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> > + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> > Ruby,...?)\n> \n> Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n\nI'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++\nbecause QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web\ninterfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity\nchoosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and\nJavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n \n> > 07. What helped you most in learning to use it?\n> > (free form question)\n> \n> Is it possible to have multiple choice, with \"other\" (free-form)? Then \n> I'd suggest:\n> \n> \tColleague/Instructor, User Manual, Manpages, Tutorials, Tutorials \n> \t(elsewhere; not in git.git), Mailing list, IRC, Git Wiki, Other.\n\nBy \"Tutorials (elsewhere; not in git.git)\" you mean here many various\n\"git guide\" pages, like \"Git for Computer Scientists\", \"Git Magic\",\netc.?\n\nI'm not sure about having multiple choice vs. free-form question here.\nMultiple choice is easier to analyze, especially if one would want\nhistogram of replies... but free form is more rich. But perhaps\nmultiple choice with free-form \"other\" choice would be the best?\n\nBesides proposed choices limit person filling the survey to single\nunderstanding of \"what helped you in learning to use Git\", which\ncan be also understood as asking for list of features helping with\nlearning Git, not only list of documentation and such. \n\n> > 08. What did you find hardest in learning Git?\n> > What did you find harderst in using Git?\n> \n> s/harderst/hardest.\n> \n> > (free form question)\n> \n> Again, I'd suggest a multiple choice + Other:\n> \n> \tThe amount of commands, the amount of options, the index (AKA \n> \tstaging), branching, user interface, bugs, Other.\n\nHere it can be hard to come up with good list of choices. For example\namong responses in 2007 survey there were 'inconsistent commands',\n'obtuse command messages', 'insufficient/hard to use documentation',\nand many more.\n\nI'm not sure if troubles with coming with extensive but not too large\nlist of options for this question is worth it; I think that we need\nonly list of responses, and not number of responses (perhaps mentioning\nwhich one occur [much] more frequently).\n\n> > Other SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n> > \n> > 10. What other SCM did or do you use?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - CVS, Subversion, GNU Arch or arch clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n> > Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev, Perforce,\n> > BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe, MS Visual Studio\n> > Team System, custom, other(*)\n> \n> PVCS seems to be pretty popular, too.\n\nO.K., I'll add it. I think I'd better add RCS too.\n\n> > 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n> > What do you like about using Git?\n> > (free form, not to be tabulated)\n> \n> Again, to avoid hassles with free-form:\n> \n> \tMandatory: work, mandatory: open source project I am participating \n> \tin, speed, scalability, It's What Linus Uses, Other.\n\nFree form has some hassles. Because here histogram of responses might\nbe interesting, perhaps it would be good to use multiple choice here.\n\nI would add \"features\" and/or \"unique features\" to the list, and also\nperhaps \"being popular/hype\".\n\n> > 12. Why did you choose other SCMs? (if you use other SCMs)\n> > What do you like about using other SCMs?\n> > Note: please write name of SCMs you are talking about.\n> > (free form, not to be tabulated).\n> \n> Again:\n> \n> \tease-of use, simplicity, existing project uses it, I Do Not Like \n> \tLinus, Other\n\nAgain: free form has some hassles, but so does coming up with good\nchoice of fixed answers in multiple choice question. I'll add\n\"ease to install on MS Windows\" (or something like that) if we decide\nto have this question multiple choice.\n\n> > 15. What operating system do you use Git on?\n> > (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n> > - Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n> > MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n> \n> You should include \"Dunno\", which gets automatically mapped to \"MS \n> Windows/msysGit\" ;-)\n> \n> > 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n> \n> git svn\n> \n> You might laugh, but it is a sad fact that some guy promotes \"Using Git \n> with Google Code\" by using git-svn to drive their crappy Subversion.\n\nO.K. I'll add \"git-svn (or other to foreign SCM)\".\n\n> > 22. How does Git compare to other SCM tools you have used?\n> > - worse/equal (or comparable)/better\n> > 23. What would you most like to see improved about Git?\n> > (features, bugs, plug-ins, documentation, ...)\n> \n> Maybe here should be another question \"What are the most useful features \n> of Git?\" but maybe that is covered by earlier questions.\n\nI think it is. I'd rather try to reduce number of questions...\n\n> > 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n> > think we could do to make this happen?\n> > + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we need wider adoption?\n> \n> I agree with Junio: this is not so interesting for us; we are no company, \n> and we have no sales department who could wank of on these answers.\n\nI'll remove it, then.\n\n> > 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> > management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n> \n> For our Windows friends, we should add \" (crlf)\" to the last item.\n\nRight. Thanks.\n\n> > 42. Do you find traffic levels on Git mailing list OK.\n> > - yes/no? (optional)\n> \n> /too low? *ducksandrunsforcover*\n\n???\n\n> > 44. If yes, do you find IRC channel useful?\n> > - yes/no (optional)\n> \n> /somewhat. Even if I would be the only one choosing that option.\n\nI'm sorry about that: I have forgot that this and all similar questions\nhad triple choice: yes/no/somewhat in the final version of 2007 survey.\nI'll correct it.\n\n> > 45. Did you have problems getting GIT help on mailing list or\n> > on IRC channel? What were it? What could be improved?\n> > (free form)\n> \n> Yeah, I know who will answer to that, and what... \"yaddayadda very \n> unfriendly yaddayadda especially that Johannes guy yaddayadda\" (you know \n> who you are)... *lol*\n\n:-)\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84484","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231414480.8986@racer","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807231508.42334.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-07-23T13:18:40Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T13:18:40Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > \n> > Some people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n> > \n> > > 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> > > (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> > > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > > - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> > > + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> > > Ruby,...?)\n> > \n> > Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n> \n> I'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++\n> because QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web\n> interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity\n> choosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and\n> JavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n\nC# at least, since we had one (pretty unsuccessful) attempt at \nreimplementing Git in it.\n\n\n> > > 07. What helped you most in learning to use it?\n> > > (free form question)\n> > \n> > Is it possible to have multiple choice, with \"other\" (free-form)?\n>\n> But perhaps multiple choice with free-form \"other\" choice would be the \n> best?\n\nUhm, yes, you are right. Why not have multiple choice, with \"other\") \n(free-form)?\n\n> > > 42. Do you find traffic levels on Git mailing list OK.\n> > > - yes/no? (optional)\n> > \n> > /too low? *ducksandrunsforcover*\n> \n> ???\n\nWell, was worth a try ;-)\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"84497","messageId":"20080723141224.GA17648@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-07-23T14:12:24Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T14:12:24Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nJakub Narebski wrote:\n> I'd rather avoid free-form questions, even if they are more interesting,\n> as they are PITA to analyse and summarize, especially to create some \n> kind of histogram from free-form replies data (some of 2007 free-form\n> responses are not fully summarized even now).\n\nThen we should use a web-based survey, because e-mail-based will always\nbe used to write free-form answers, I think.\n\nSo for multiple choice questions an \"Other\" item is often useful, but\n-- if the survey service allows it -- I'd prefer if the \"Other\" item\nenables a text input field (free-form) to let the user be more concrete.\nThose values are informational only, but could be added to Git User's\nSurvey 2009, if they occur more than once. :)\n\n> Third, where to send survey to / where to publish information about the \n> survey? Last year the announcement was send to git mailing list, to\n> LKML (Linux kernel mailing list), and mailing list for git projects \n> found on GitProjects page on GIT wiki. Now that the number of projects \n> using Git as version control system has grown, I don't think it would \n> be good idea to \"spam\" all those mailing list; and if we don't send \n> notice to all other projects I'm not sure if we should include LKML.\n\nHmm, perhaps we could spam some news sites[1] on the web and keep the lists\nclean. Of course, this is advertising for git, too ;-)\n\n[1] I could write something for German-speaking pro-linux.de and symlink.ch\n though I don't know if they take it as news.\n\n> Last year survey announcement was put on Git Homepage (thanks Pasky), \n> and on front page of Git Wiki; info about survey was also put on two \n> git hosting sites: kernel.org and repo.or.cz.\n\nNice. That should be done again ;-)\n\n> Last year the survey was meant to take three weeks, but was up longer.\n\nPerhaps this is much too much, but my first thought was: 8 weeks.\nHmm, perhaps 5 weeks?\n\n> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n\nThis is a really nasty multiple choice question.\n\n> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> Ruby,...?)\n\nPerhaps yes.\nThe programming language list\n\thttps://www.ohloh.net/tools\ncould be a start %)\n\n> - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n> news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n> presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n> IRC, mailing list, other Internet, other off-line, other(*)\n\n- other off-line: told by friend, must be used at job, ...\n\n> + the problem is with having not very long list (not too many\n> choices), but spanning all possibilities.\n\nHmmm.\nIs this a limitation by the free web-based services or is this due to\nsurvey usability issues?\n\n> 09. When did you start using git? From which version?\n> - pre 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5\n> + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n> + perhaps we should ask in addition to this question, or in place\n> of this question (replacing it) what git version one uses; it\n> should be multiple choice, and allow 'master', 'next', 'pu',\n> 'dirty (with own modifications)' versions in addition.\n\nHmm, the master/next/pu/dirty question will be a mystery to most git users\nthat have never cared about git source code.\n\n> How you use Git\n\n> 16. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - core-git, Cogito (deprecated), StGIT, Guilt, pg (deprecated),\n> Pyrite, Easy Git, IsiSetup, jgit, my own scripts, other\n\nI wonder if this could be extended to get an idea how many people use\nplumbing directly or, even better, add a question like:\n\n\tWhich of the following git commands or extra git tools do you use regularly?\n\n\t[list of all plumbing, porcelain and tools like stgit, guilt, etc]\n\nor \"... have you never used?\", or \"...have you ever used?\"...\nJust to get an idea of what commands are often used by the users.\n\nPerhaps it is even useful to extend that list by some behavior-changing\noptions, like:\n\n\t[ ] git add\n\t[ ] git add -i / -p\n\t...\n\t[ ] git am\n\t[ ] git am -i\n\t...\n\t[ ] git merge\n\t[ ] git merge with strategy\n\t...\n\t[ ] git rebase\n\t[ ] git rebase -i\n\n...though this is also handled by question 27 (see below).\n\nYes, this will be a long list :-)\nAnd don't forget the [ ] other :)\n\nOf course this question could be split into\n - extra tools\n - guis (like question 17.)\n - helpers\n - porcelain\n - plumbings\n\nQuestion 27. should be in this section, too:\n\n> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n> gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n> shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n> add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n> templates, bisect, other (not mentioned here)\n> + should probably be sorted in some resemblance of order\n> + are there any new features which should be listed here?\n\nHmm, I'd remove \"git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history\nviewer, patch management interface (e.g. StGIT)\".\nAnd depending of the question I just proposed, \"interactive rebase\",\n\"add --interactive [...]\", \"bisect\" could be removed, too.\n\n> 18. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), other\n> + should there be a question about web server (Apache, IIS, ...)\n> used to host git web interface?\n\nNo, why should we care about the web server? :)\n\n> 22. How does Git compare to other SCM tools you have used?\n> - worse/equal (or comparable)/better\n> 23. What would you most like to see improved about Git?\n> (features, bugs, plug-ins, documentation, ...)\n> 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n> think we could do to make this happen?\n> + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we need wider adoption?\n\nHmmm,\n\"Do you miss features in git that you know from other SCMs?\"\n\"If yes, what features are these?\"\n\n> 26. How do you compare current version with version from year ago?\n> - current version is: better/worse/no changes\n\nSince this is single-choice, a \"don't know\"/\"cannot say\" option should \nbe added.\n\n> 28. If you use some important Git features not mentioned above,\n> what are it?\n\n\"what are it\" sounds somehow funny. Is it correct?\n\"what are them?\" or \"what are those?\"\nOr\n\"If you use some important Git feature not mentioned above, what is it?\"\n\n> Documentation\n> \n> 29. Do you use the Git wiki?\n> - yes/no\n> 30. Do you find Git wiki useful?\n> - yes/no/somewhat\n> 31. Do you contribute to Git wiki?\n> - yes/no/only corrections or spam removal\n> 32. Do you find Git's on-line help (homepage, documentation) useful?\n> - yes/no/somewhat\n> 33. Do you find help distributed with Git useful\n> (manpages, manual, tutorial, HOWTO, release notes)?\n> - yes/no/somewhat\n> 34. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n> (free form)\n> 35. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n> (free form)\n\n36. Do you think there is too few documentation on the web?\n37. Do you think there is too much documentation on the web?\n\nNo ;-) Perhaps:\n\n36. Do you think it is easy to find out how to do a specific task with\n git?\n\n> Open forum\n> \n> 46. What other comments or suggestions do you have that are not\n> covered by the questions above?\n> (free form)\n\nAbout the survey\n\n47. Do you have any comments about the survey?\n48. Should such a survey be repeated next year?\n(Or: Would you take part in such a survey next year again?)\n [ ] Yes\n [ ] No, but 2010 again.\n [ ] No, never again.\n\nJust a poor idea to get \"feedback\" if people like to take part in this\nsurvey or not.\n\n\nRegards,\n Stephan\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"84499","messageId":"20080723143810.GR2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Dmitry Potapov","fromEmail":"dpotapov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T14:38:10Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T14:38:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dpotapov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6568595?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n\nIMHO, the later wording of the question is much better.\n\n> 05. How did you hear about Git?\n> (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n> - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n> news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n> presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n> IRC, mailing list, other Internet, other off-line, other(*)\n\nI think \"friend\" would be a reasonable choice here too.\n\n> 09. When did you start using git? From which version?\n> - pre 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5\n> + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n> + perhaps we should ask in addition to this question, or in place\n> of this question (replacing it) what git version one uses; it\n> should be multiple choice, and allow 'master', 'next', 'pu',\n> 'dirty (with own modifications)' versions in addition.\n\nI think: \"What version do you use now?\" and \"How log do you use git?\"\nmay be more useful here. From which version may give rather confusing\nresults because someone may \"start\" with 1.4 a week ago just because\nthat is the version included in Debian Etch and after realizing that\nversion 1.4 has serious usability issues upgraded git to 1.5. Besides,\n1.5 is around for a long time now (as most as long as all previous\nversions), so 1.5 can mean either one month of usage or 18 months...\n\n\nDmitry\n"},{"id":"84503","messageId":"200807231654.18019.robin.rosenberg.lists@dewire.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231414480.8986@racer","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Robin Rosenberg","fromEmail":"robin.rosenberg.lists@dewire.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T14:54:17Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T14:54:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"robin.rosenberg@dewire.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/46357?v=4"},"body":"onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n> Hi,\n> \n> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> \n> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > > \n> > > Some people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n> > > \n> > > > 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> > > > (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> > > > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > > > - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> > > > + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> > > > Ruby,...?)\n> > > \n> > > Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n> > \n> > I'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++\n> > because QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web\n> > interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity\n> > choosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and\n> > JavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n> \n> C# at least, since we had one (pretty unsuccessful) attempt at \n> reimplementing Git in it.\n\nWhat is the reason for the question? Do we want to know what languages\npeople would like to contribute to Git in or do we want to know what \"kind\"\nof programmers are attracted by Git? Making it a long list should make\nit easier to tabulate the responses.\n\n-- robin\n"},{"id":"84504","messageId":"20080723145455.GS2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231128090.2830@eeepc-johanness","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Dmitry Potapov","fromEmail":"dpotapov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T14:54:55Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T14:54:55Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dpotapov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6568595?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:53:27AM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> \n> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> \n> \n> > 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n> > What do you like about using Git?\n> > (free form, not to be tabulated)\n> \n> Again, to avoid hassles with free-form:\n> \n> \tMandatory: work, mandatory: open source project I am participating \n> \tin, speed, scalability, It's What Linus Uses, Other.\n\nIf we move away from free-form, it should be much more choices here.\n\n- Ability to work offline\n- Cryptographic authentication of history.\n- Distributed development (pull/push from/to more than one remote repo)\n- Easy to extend functionality through scripting\n- Efficient storage model\n- Elegant design\n- Fast\n- Good community support\n- Rewriting patches before publishing (git rebase, commit --amend)\n- Scalability (Efficient handling of large projects)\n- Strong support for non-linear development\n- Support of wide range of protocols for synchronization.\n...\n\nDmitry\n"},{"id":"84524","messageId":"1216827806.9938.18.camel@localhost","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723143810.GR2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Matthias Kestenholz","fromEmail":"mk@spinlock.ch","sentAt":"2008-07-23T15:43:26Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T15:43:26Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"matthias@spinlock.ch","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/bc18f396e70163d09ab458a341b1decb7e8b6ee3aa2c0c954ec20162e67c4d46?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 18:38 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> > (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n> \n> IMHO, the later wording of the question is much better.\n\nI think these are two separate questions. In my case the first is\n(swiss) german, the second is english. I don't like localized software\ntoo much, I always have to think what a certain german term might mean\nin english to understand computing-specific texts.\n\nThat being said I think that the first question is irrelevant for the\ngit survey. Maybe we should use the term 'internationalization' or\n'localization' somewhere to make clear what we are talking about. While\nthese terms might scare newbies away we can reasonably expect that they\nare known by git users.\n\n\nMatthias\n"},{"id":"84529","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231659210.8986@racer","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807231654.18019.robin.rosenberg.lists@dewire.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-07-23T16:00:34Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T16:00:34Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Robin Rosenberg wrote:\n\n> onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n> \n> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > \n> > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > > > \n> > > > Some people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n> > > > \n> > > > > 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> > > > > (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> > > > > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > > > > - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> > > > > + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> > > > > Ruby,...?)\n> > > > \n> > > > Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n> > > \n> > > I'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++ \n> > > because QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web \n> > > interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity \n> > > choosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and \n> > > JavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n> > \n> > C# at least, since we had one (pretty unsuccessful) attempt at \n> > reimplementing Git in it.\n> \n> What is the reason for the question? Do we want to know what languages\n> people would like to contribute to Git in or do we want to know what \"kind\"\n> of programmers are attracted by Git? Making it a long list should make\n> it easier to tabulate the responses.\n\n\"could contribute\" is more appropriate IMHO. Although you might be right \nto ask \"would like to contribute\"... ;-)\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"84530","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231701330.8986@racer","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723145455.GS2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-07-23T16:02:38Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T16:02:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n\n> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:53:27AM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > \n> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > \n> > \n> > > 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n> > > What do you like about using Git?\n> > > (free form, not to be tabulated)\n> > \n> > Again, to avoid hassles with free-form:\n> > \n> > \tMandatory: work, mandatory: open source project I am participating \n> > \tin, speed, scalability, It's What Linus Uses, Other.\n> \n> If we move away from free-form, it should be much more choices here.\n> \n> - Ability to work offline\n> - Cryptographic authentication of history.\n\nCryptographically strong integrity check. There is no authentication.\n\n> - Distributed development (pull/push from/to more than one remote repo)\n> - Easy to extend functionality through scripting\n> - Efficient storage model\n> - Elegant design\n> - Fast\n> - Good community support\n> - Rewriting patches before publishing (git rebase, commit --amend)\n> - Scalability (Efficient handling of large projects)\n> - Strong support for non-linear development\n> - Support of wide range of protocols for synchronization.\n> ...\n\nYeah, I would tick all of them, too.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"84541","messageId":"7vwsjcft5g.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807231508.42334.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T16:43:23Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T16:43:23Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski writes:\n\n> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> \n>> Some people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n>> \n>> > 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n>> > (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n>> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>> > - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n>> > + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n>> > Ruby,...?)\n>> \n>> Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n>\n> I'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++\n> because QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web\n> interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity\n> choosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and\n> JavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n\nI refrained saying this in my initial response, but my initial reaction\nwas \"Why are you even asking this?\".\n\nYes, \"getting to know you\" demographics are customary done in surveys, and\nyou kept it to the minimum which is also good, but I do not think this\nparticular question is very interesting. For one thing, the question\nassumes the participant is a programmer, and we are giving an impression\nthat we are interested in better programmers. Do we *still* require users\nto be a programmer to use git? I do not think so. Having to answer \"none\nof these\" to this question would make you feel unnecessarily bad, even if\nyou are not a programmer and you know at the intellectual level that it is\nnot your flaw not to be proficient in any.\n\nAsking about geographic location and preferred human languages might help\nto gauge what l10n are desired for GUIs, but even there, don't forget that\nwe are no company. We do not research markets and translate messages to\nmissing languages, however popular, before being asked. That's not how we\noperate. So the result of these questions will be mainly to satisfy our\ncuriosity, nothing more.\n\n\"What kind of content do you track\" might also be an equally interesting\nquestion. It also falls into the curiosity department, though.\n\n> I'm not sure about having multiple choice vs. free-form question here.\n> Multiple choice is easier to analyze, especially if one would want\n> histogram of replies...\n\nAnd when you expect very many respondents, (1) you cannot afford to\nfree-form; and (2) statistics over multiple choices, as long as choices\nare well seeded, will give you a good enough overview picture.\n\n> Again: free form has some hassles, but so does coming up with good\n> choice of fixed answers in multiple choice question.\n\nYou need to do at least one or the other, and I do not think there is any\nway to avoid that. Without a good choices, histogram would become useless\n(not necessarily because the answer will be dominated by \"Other\", but the\nseeing the choices tends to set the frame of mind when/before somebody\nanswers the question). With free-form, you will spend the rest of your\nlife analyzing to get any useful insight.\n"},{"id":"84549","messageId":"20080723170120.GC17648@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723145455.GS2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-07-23T17:01:20Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T17:01:20Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nDmitry Potapov wrote:\n> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:53:27AM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > > 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n> > > What do you like about using Git?\n> > > (free form, not to be tabulated)\n> > \n> > Again, to avoid hassles with free-form:\n> > \n> > \tMandatory: work, mandatory: open source project I am participating \n> > \tin, speed, scalability, It's What Linus Uses, Other.\n> \n> If we move away from free-form, it should be much more choices here.\n> \n> - Ability to work offline\n> - Cryptographic authentication of history.\n> - Distributed development (pull/push from/to more than one remote repo)\n> - Easy to extend functionality through scripting\n> - Efficient storage model\n> - Elegant design\n> - Fast\n> - Good community support\n> - Rewriting patches before publishing (git rebase, commit --amend)\n> - Scalability (Efficient handling of large projects)\n> - Strong support for non-linear development\n> - Support of wide range of protocols for synchronization.\n> ...\n\nHeh, I can imagine git users reading that survey and thinking\n \"What? Git allows me to rewrite patches before publishing?\n And it provides cryptographic integrity? Sounds good. *click*\"\n\nNevertheless, the list is fine ;)\nPerhaps also: \"Good reputation\".\n\nRegards.\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"84556","messageId":"20080723171745.GC5283@blimp.local","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231128090.2830@eeepc-johanness","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Alex Riesen","fromEmail":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T17:17:45Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T17:17:45Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/324101?v=4"},"body":"Johannes Schindelin, Wed, Jul 23, 2008 11:53:27 +0200:\n> > 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n> \n> git svn\n> \n\na converter using fast-import/fast-export/plumbing\n"},{"id":"84602","messageId":"20080723200941.GT2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"1216827806.9938.18.camel@localhost","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Dmitry Potapov","fromEmail":"dpotapov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T20:09:41Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T20:09:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dpotapov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6568595?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 05:43:26PM +0200, Matthias Kestenholz wrote:\n> On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 18:38 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > > 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> > > (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n> > \n> > IMHO, the later wording of the question is much better.\n> \n> I think these are two separate questions. In my case the first is\n> (swiss) german, the second is english. I don't like localized software\n> too much, I always have to think what a certain german term might mean\n> in english to understand computing-specific texts.\n\nWellcome to the club of those who don't like localized software :)\n\n> \n> That being said I think that the first question is irrelevant for the\n> git survey.\n\nExactly. That is why I said the later wording is better. I believe the\nimplied question was what language would you like Git to talk with you.\n\nDmitry\n"},{"id":"84618","messageId":"200807232338.04340.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723074747.GA32057@genesis.frugalware.org","subject":"Re: HP-UX issues (WAS: Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008)","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T21:38:00Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T21:38:00Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 July 2008, Miklos Vajna wrote:\n\n> Being more constructive, what a user using HP-UX is supported to do?\n> \n> 1) Use the patched git from HP.\n> \n> 2) Have coreutils installed. (But then I think it would be good to list\n> this dependency in INSTALL.)\n\nIt would be good idea, although \"POSIX-compliant shells\" implies\ncoreutils somewhat; shell scripts usually do require some utilities,\nlike sed, grep, cat, test etc.\n\n> 3) Patch git to use automake's install-sh. (Would such a patch be ever\n> accepted?)\n\nI think it would. It would allow us also to uncomment the\nAC_PROG_INSTALL line in configure.ac file to find 'install'\nautomatically (autoconf requires having install.sh or install-sh\nfallback in the sources).\n\nThe problem is coming up with minimal yet portable (at least as\nportable as git itself) fallback install.sh script.\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84619","messageId":"20080723214433.GO32184@machine.or.cz","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2008-07-23T21:44:33Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T21:44:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> 18. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), other\n> + should there be a question about web server (Apache, IIS, ...)\n> used to host git web interface?\n> 18b.If you selected \"other web interface\", what it was?\n> (free form)\n\nI think many people \"just use GitHub\", or repo.or.cz, or Gitorious; for\nGitHub or Gitorious, there's even no good answer to the question above.\nSo I would either make a separate question for these or include them in\nthe list above.\n\n> 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n\nI agree about the git-svn mention.\n\n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\n"},{"id":"84621","messageId":"200807232349.42244.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723143810.GR2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T21:49:41Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T21:49:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >\n> > 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> > (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n> \n> IMHO, the later wording of the question is much better.\n\nFirst just satisfies demographic curiosity. Second is more question\nabout internationalization (i18n).\n\nI'm not sure however if it is worth it, and not just simply remove\nthis question from the survey.\n\n> > 05. How did you hear about Git?\n> > (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n> > - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n> > news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n> > presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n> > IRC, mailing list, other Internet, other off-line, other(*)\n> \n> I think \"friend\" would be a reasonable choice here too.\n\nOr: \"word of mouth (off-line)\". Good catch, thanks.\n\n> > 09. When did you start using git? From which version?\n> > - pre 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5\n> > + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n> > + perhaps we should ask in addition to this question, or in place\n> > of this question (replacing it) what git version one uses; it\n> > should be multiple choice, and allow 'master', 'next', 'pu',\n> > 'dirty (with own modifications)' versions in addition.\n> \n> I think: \"What version do you use now?\" and \"How long do you use git?\"\n> may be more useful here. From which version may give rather confusing\n> results because someone may \"start\" with 1.4 a week ago just because\n> that is the version included in Debian Etch and after realizing that\n> version 1.4 has serious usability issues upgraded git to 1.5. Besides,\n> 1.5 is around for a long time now (as most as long as all previous\n> versions), so 1.5 can mean either one month of usage or 18 months...\n\nGood idea (provided that for \"How long do you use git?\" there is an\nanswer \"Don't remember\").\n\nShould \"What version do you use now?\" be multiple choice (using git\non more than one machine / operating system)? What should be possible\nchoices for \"How long do you use git?\"? Perhaps.\n\n 10. How long do you use git?\n (single choice)\n - never/few days/few weeks/month/few months/year/few years/\n from beginning/I wrote it(*)\n + (*) just kidding ;-)\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84624","messageId":"200807232359.55916.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723214433.GO32184@machine.or.cz","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T21:59:54Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T21:59:54Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >\n> > 18. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), other\n> > + should there be a question about web server (Apache, IIS, ...)\n> > used to host git web interface?\n> > 18b.If you selected \"other web interface\", what it was?\n> > (free form)\n> \n> I think many people \"just use GitHub\", or repo.or.cz, or Gitorious; for\n> GitHub or Gitorious, there's even no good answer to the question above.\n\nFor Gitorious there is a good answer: Gitorious web interface (which\nis OSS, and you can deploy on your own).\n\n> So I would either make a separate question for these or include them in\n> the list above.\n\nFact, I have forgot to add question about which git hosting site one\nuses; I have meant to add it in the second version of proposal for\nGit User's Survey 2008 questions list.\n\n xx. Which git hosting site do you use for your projects?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - repo.or.cz, GitHub, Gitorious, kernel.org, freedesktop.org,\n Savannah, Assembla, Unfuddle, Alioth, Fedora Hosted, other\n + of course \"if other, which\"\n + should some other web hosting sites be included as well?\n\n> > 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n> \n> I agree about the git-svn mention.\n\nI'll add it, then.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84633","messageId":"0D41B0CC-A7D0-4DD7-B067-703A3F25C6C0@guiamac.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"169F15EC-1A58-4C2A-84FC-3D14F7B4F1C5@yahoo.ca","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Miguel Arroz","fromEmail":"arroz@guiamac.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T22:46:44Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T22:46:44Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"arroz@guiamac.com","avatar":null},"body":"Hello all,\n\n Jakub, by now you should already have received an invitation to \njoin the Survs beta.\n\n Information about the beta is included in the email. I don't know \nif your project will go beyond the beta period and I cannot comment \nabout costs right now, but rest assured we'll have very competitive \npricing plans.\n\n We sincerely hope our application proves to be useful to achieve \nyour goals.\n\n Finally thank you Jean-François for mentioning us, we really \nappreciate it.\n\nRegards,\nMiguel Arroz\n\nOn 2008/07/23, at 16:14, Jean-François Veillette wrote:\n\n> Le 08-07-22 à 21:25, Jakub Narebski a écrit :\n>\n>>\n>> First there is a question about the form of survey. Should we use web\n>> based survey, as the survey before (http://www.survey.net.nz), \n>> sending\n>> emails with link to this survey, or perhaps do email based survey,\n>> with email Reply-To: address put for this survey alone? Should we \n>> use\n>> the same web survey service as before (found by Paolo Ciarrocchi for\n>> first, 2006 survey, and used also for 2007 survey), or is there one\n>> better (it would better be free, and without limitations on the \n>> number\n>> of responses; in 2006 there were around 117 responses, in 2007 there\n>> were 683 individual responses).\n>\n> Consider\n> http://www.survs.com\n> It is still in beta but already years ahead of the proposed solution.\n> I don't know about the specific of the beta (cost, availability, \n> etc.) but I had a live presentation of the product and it is an \n> amazingly great product !\n>\n> - jfv\n>\n\nhttp://www.survs.com\n\n"},{"id":"84641","messageId":"200807240130.31649.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807231654.18019.robin.rosenberg.lists@dewire.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T23:30:30Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T23:30:30Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Dnia środa 23. lipca 2008 16:54, Robin Rosenberg napisał:\n> onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>> \n>>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n>>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n>>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n>>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n>>>>> Ruby,...?)\n>>>> \n>>>> Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n>>> \n>>> I'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++\n>>> because QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web\n>>> interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity\n>>> choosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and\n>>> JavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n>> \n>> C# at least, since we had one (pretty unsuccessful) attempt at \n>> reimplementing Git in it.\n> \n> What is the reason for the question? Do we want to know what languages\n> people would like to contribute to Git in or do we want to know what \"kind\"\n> of programmers are attracted by Git? Making it a long list should make\n> it easier to tabulate the responses.\n\nThe idea is, I think, to know what languages people could contribute\nto Git; see analysis of this question at GitSurvey2007 page on git wiki:\n http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007#head-ecb5564d71e4093e2e93e508380407a26dbcbdea\n\nC++ is for QGit, Java for egit/jgit, C# for git#/widgit and perhaps\nGit-Cheetah, PHP for web interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub, Python\nbecause some contrib is in Python, Emacs Lisp for git.el, HTML+CSS\nand JavaScript for web interfaces; perhaps we should also add AsciiDoc\nfor documentation. And of course \"I am not programmer\" response...\n\nBut I'm not too tied to this question; I guess it can be simply\nremoved if it doesn't offer some important (for us) information.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84643","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807240032150.8986@racer","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807240130.31649.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-07-23T23:33:35Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T23:33:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> C# for git#/widgit\n\nwidgit is _dead_.\n\n> and perhaps Git-Cheetah\n\nC# for Git-Cheetah? Over my dead cold body.\n\nCiao,\nDscho \"who still shakes his head that Jakub could even _think_ that\"\n"},{"id":"84645","messageId":"20080723234534.GO32057@genesis.frugalware.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807232338.04340.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: HP-UX issues (WAS: Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008)","fromName":"Miklos Vajna","fromEmail":"vmiklos@frugalware.org","sentAt":"2008-07-23T23:45:34Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T23:45:34Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"vmiklos@frugalware.org","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/401c1cbbb3a5d13e650c691a2c71d6fd0b80df1a01bc74d9f1972675dd58f2bd?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:38:00PM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > 2) Have coreutils installed. (But then I think it would be good to list\n> > this dependency in INSTALL.)\n> \n> It would be good idea, although \"POSIX-compliant shells\" implies\n> coreutils somewhat; shell scripts usually do require some utilities,\n> like sed, grep, cat, test etc.\n\nSure, but we already use test_cmp instead of diff -u, avoid grep -a,\netc. These tricks are for running without GNU coreutils, I guess.\n\n> > 3) Patch git to use automake's install-sh. (Would such a patch be ever\n> > accepted?)\n> \n> I think it would. It would allow us also to uncomment the\n> AC_PROG_INSTALL line in configure.ac file to find 'install'\n> automatically (autoconf requires having install.sh or install-sh\n> fallback in the sources).\n> \n> The problem is coming up with minimal yet portable (at least as\n> portable as git itself) fallback install.sh script.\n\nI just checked automake-1.10.1's install-sh script, it works properly\nwith HP-UX's ksh.\n\nI think it would be possible to:\n\n1) Just use it: in long-term this would mean no additional maintenance\ncost, since if any problem occurs, it could be just updated from\nautomake.\n\n2) Or make it as minimal as possible: As far as I see the current git\nbuild system just uses the -d and -m switches, so the support for the\n-c, -C, -g, -o, -s, -t and -T switches could be removed. This way we\nwould get a minimal install-sh, but then it would have to be maintained\ninside git.git.\n\nI think 1) would be better.\n"},{"id":"84646","messageId":"200807240149.27371.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"169F15EC-1A58-4C2A-84FC-3D14F7B4F1C5@yahoo.ca","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-23T23:49:26Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T23:49:26Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Dnia środa 23. lipca 2008 17:14, Jean-François Veillette napisał:\n> Le 08-07-22 à 21:25, Jakub Narebski a écrit :\n>\n> > First there is a question about the form of survey. Should we use web\n> > based survey, as the survey before (http://www.survey.net.nz), sending\n> > emails with link to this survey, or perhaps do email based survey,\n> > with email Reply-To: address put for this survey alone? Should we use\n> > the same web survey service as before (found by Paolo Ciarrocchi for\n> > first, 2006 survey, and used also for 2007 survey), or is there one\n> > better (it would better be free, and without limitations on the number\n> > of responses; in 2006 there were around 117 responses, in 2007 there\n> > were 683 individual responses).\n> \n> Consider\n> http://www.survs.com\n> It is still in beta but already years ahead of the proposed solution.\n> I don't know about the specific of the beta (cost, availability, \n> etc.) but I had a live presentation of the product and it is an \n> amazingly great product !\n\nIt certainly _looks_ nice, but it lacks one very important feature\n(or at least I was not able to find it): the ability to download *RAW*\ndata to analyse it off-line using more advanced tools (like for\nexample Perl script to clean-up responses; spreadsheet like Excel or\nGnumeric, or some statictics tool like R to analyze data, for example\ndo a correlation between responses to different questions).\n\nhttp://www.survey.net.nz allows to download raw data in modified\nCSV format (modified as it allows for line continuation). See for\nexample raw data for Git User's Survey 2007 results:\n http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=surveydata.csv\n\nThere is another nice thing that http://www.survey.net.nz is supposed\nto have (but it doesn't unfortunately work; at least downloading\ncurrent layout of survey to tweak off-line doesn't/didn't work),\nnamely ability to create survey off-line using some specified text\nformat, and upload it, instead of creating it on-line (which might be\nmuch work for large surveys).\n \n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84647","messageId":"20080723235359.GB12754@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807240130.31649.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-07-23T23:53:59Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-23T23:53:59Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nJakub Narebski wrote:\n> Dnia ?roda 23. lipca 2008 16:54, Robin Rosenberg napisa?:\n> > onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n> >> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> >>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >>>> \n> >>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> >>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> >>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> >>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> >>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> >>>>> Ruby,...?)\n[...]\n> \n> The idea is, I think, to know what languages people could contribute\n> to Git; see analysis of this question at GitSurvey2007 page on git wiki:\n> http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007#head-ecb5564d71e4093e2e93e508380407a26dbcbdea\n\nOha, is this a Git User's Survey or a Git Potential Contributor's Survey?\nI thought this is some kind of demographic question about the \"programming\nbackground\" of the user.\n\n> And of course \"I am not programmer\" response...\n\nThis doesn't make sense, does it?\nI know that there are non-programmer's who use git for there\nconfiguration files and other non-programming track files, but\nthis looks somehow wrong in this survey.\n\nRegards.\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"84653","messageId":"200807240210.13955.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7vwsjcft5g.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T00:10:13Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T00:10:13Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 July 2008, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski writes:\n>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>> \n>>> Some people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n>>> \n>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n>>>> Ruby,...?)\n>>> \n>>> Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n>>\n>> I'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++\n>> because QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web\n>> interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity\n>> choosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and\n>> JavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n> \n> I refrained saying this in my initial response, but my initial reaction\n> was \"Why are you even asking this?\".\n> \n> Yes, \"getting to know you\" demographics are customary done in surveys, and\n> you kept it to the minimum which is also good, but I do not think this\n> particular question is very interesting. For one thing, the question\n> assumes the participant is a programmer, and we are giving an impression\n> that we are interested in better programmers. Do we *still* require users\n> to be a programmer to use git? I do not think so. Having to answer \"none\n> of these\" to this question would make you feel unnecessarily bad, even if\n> you are not a programmer and you know at the intellectual level that it is\n> not your flaw not to be proficient in any.\n\nThe idea, I think, was to gauge which parts of Git would be hard to\nfind developers for, because of small number of people proficient in\nthe programming language the part is written in. I'm thinking here\nabout Tcl/Tk and gitk and git-gui, see\n http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007#head-ecb5564d71e4093e2e93e508380407a26dbcbdea\n\nNevertheless, _if_ this question is to stay (I am not sure one way or\nanother), we would better add \"I am not programmer\" or something like\nthat to the list of possible answers.\n\n> Asking about geographic location and preferred human languages might help\n> to gauge what l10n are desired for GUIs, but even there, don't forget that\n> we are no company. We do not research markets and translate messages to\n> missing languages, however popular, before being asked. That's not how we\n> operate. So the result of these questions will be mainly to satisfy our\n> curiosity, nothing more.\n\nIt would also answer question if adding support for i18n in git, for\nexample support for translating git commands messages, is something\nwhich people would want or not. If they would be translated or not\nit would depend on people, but one cannot even begin translation\nefforts if there is no infrastructure in place.\n\nBut as the rest of localization / internationalization / translation\nquestions (\"What do you need translated?\" for example) were removed\nfrom proposed set of questions for this year survey, perhaps this\nquestion should be removed as well.\n\n> \"What kind of content do you track\" might also be an equally interesting\n> question. It also falls into the curiosity department, though.\n\nTrue.\n\nWhat should be the list of possible choices? Source code,\ndocumentation, configuration, backup, binary files, other?\n\n>> I'm not sure about having multiple choice vs. free-form question here.\n>> Multiple choice is easier to analyze, especially if one would want\n>> histogram of replies...\n> \n> And when you expect very many respondents, (1) you cannot afford to\n> free-form; and (2) statistics over multiple choices, as long as choices\n> are well seeded, will give you a good enough overview picture.\n\nI wonder how many responses will we get this year. In 2006 there were\naround 117 responses (but IIRC it was announced only on git mailing\nlist, wasn't it?), in 2007 survey there were 683 individual responses.\nGit is even more popular now, I think...\n\nOTOH there are some questions, like \"feature requests/proposals\"\nquestion which *do require* free-form question. But they should\nbe few, and preferably for questions for which we don't need\nhistogram of replies.\n\nI'll convert as much questions as possible to multiple choice\n(pre-seeded), trying to come up with a good set of canned responses.\n\n\nA question: if analysis of responses was not a problem, do you prefer\nfree form, or \"select a choice\" question?\n\n>> Again: free form has some hassles, but so does coming up with good\n>> choice of fixed answers in multiple choice question.\n> \n> You need to do at least one or the other, and I do not think there is any\n> way to avoid that. Without a good choices, histogram would become useless\n> (not necessarily because the answer will be dominated by \"Other\", but the\n> seeing the choices tends to set the frame of mind when/before somebody\n> answers the question). With free-form, you will spend the rest of your\n> life analyzing to get any useful insight.\n\nTrue... well, depending of course on the number of replies. Analysing\naround 50 free-form replies (half of 100 individual responses to survey)\nis not impossible; analysing 250+ is a lot of work.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84671","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.10.0807232201310.3721@asgard.lang.hm","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723235359.GB12754@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"","fromEmail":"david@lang.hm","sentAt":"2008-07-24T05:02:52Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T05:02:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"david@lang.hm","avatar":null},"body":"On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n\n> Hi,\n>\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> Dnia ?roda 23. lipca 2008 16:54, Robin Rosenberg napisa?:\n>>> onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>>>\n>>>>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n>>>>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n>>>>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>>>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n>>>>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n>>>>>>> Ruby,...?)\n> [...]\n>>\n>> The idea is, I think, to know what languages people could contribute\n>> to Git; see analysis of this question at GitSurvey2007 page on git wiki:\n>> http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007#head-ecb5564d71e4093e2e93e508380407a26dbcbdea\n>\n> Oha, is this a Git User's Survey or a Git Potential Contributor's Survey?\n> I thought this is some kind of demographic question about the \"programming\n> background\" of the user.\n>\n>> And of course \"I am not programmer\" response...\n>\n> This doesn't make sense, does it?\n> I know that there are non-programmer's who use git for there\n> configuration files and other non-programming track files, but\n> this looks somehow wrong in this survey.\n\nthere are non-programmers who use git to track projects that they want to \nbe able to run the latest versions of. they don't program, just git pull; \nmake;make install\n\nDavid Lang\n"},{"id":"84683","messageId":"200807241015.38817.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723171745.GC5283@blimp.local","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T08:15:38Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T08:15:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Alex Riesen wrote:\n> Johannes Schindelin, Wed, Jul 23, 2008 11:53:27 +0200:\n> > >\n> > > 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> > > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > > - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n> > \n> > git svn\n> > \n> \n> a converter using fast-import/fast-export/plumbing\n \nSo it would be now:\n\n 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - push, git-svn, foreign SCM (not via git-svn), pull request,\n format-patch + email, bundle, other(*)\n + (*)If the way you publish your changes is not on above list,\n please explain how do you publish your changes.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84684","messageId":"200807241024.11900.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723170120.GC17648@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T08:24:11Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T08:24:11Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 23 July 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n> Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:53:27AM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>\n>>>> 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n>>>> What do you like about using Git?\n>>>> (free form, not to be tabulated)\n>>> \n>>> Again, to avoid hassles with free-form:\n>>> \n>>> \tMandatory: work, mandatory: open source project I am participating \n>>> \tin, speed, scalability, It's What Linus Uses, Other.\n>> \n>> If we move away from free-form, it should be much more choices here.\n>> \n>> - Ability to work offline\n>> - Cryptographic authentication of history.\n>> - Distributed development (pull/push from/to more than one remote repo)\n>> - Easy to extend functionality through scripting\n>> - Efficient storage model\n>> - Elegant design\n>> - Fast\n>> - Good community support\n>> - Rewriting patches before publishing (git rebase, commit --amend)\n>> - Scalability (Efficient handling of large projects)\n>> - Strong support for non-linear development\n>> - Support of wide range of protocols for synchronization.\n>> ...\n> \n> Heh, I can imagine git users reading that survey and thinking\n> \"What? Git allows me to rewrite patches before publishing?\n> And it provides cryptographic integrity? Sounds good. *click*\"\n> \n> Nevertheless, the list is fine ;)\n> Perhaps also: \"Good reputation\".\n\nPerhaps also: \"Because it is popular (hype)\", and I hope that\n\"Ability to track code movement\" would have any takers. Although\nit is hard to distinguish between 'reasons to choose' and 'favourite\nfeatures' list; let's make it more 'reasons to choose' (like \"feature\nrich\").\n\n\"Good documentation\", perhaps, too?\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84691","messageId":"20080724085725.GA6092@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.10.0807232201310.3721@asgard.lang.hm","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-07-24T08:57:25Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T08:57:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\ndavid@lang.hm wrote:\n>>> And of course \"I am not programmer\" response...\n>>\n>> This doesn't make sense, does it?\n>> I know that there are non-programmer's who use git for there\n>> configuration files and other non-programming track files, but\n>> this looks somehow wrong in this survey.\n>\n> there are non-programmers who use git to track projects that they want to \n> be able to run the latest versions of. they don't program, just git pull; \n> make;make install\n\nAhh, you're totally right. :)\nI wonder if those users take part in a Git User's Survey. We'll see. :)\n\nStephan\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"84695","messageId":"200807241152.29465.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723235359.GB12754@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T09:52:28Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T09:52:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, 24 July 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> Dnia środa 23. lipca 2008 16:54, Robin Rosenberg napisał\n>>> onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>>> \n>>>>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n>>>>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n>>>>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>>>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n>>>>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n>>>>>>> Ruby,...?)\n> [...]\n>> \n>> The idea is, I think, to know what languages people could contribute\n>> to Git; see analysis of this question at GitSurvey2007 page on git wiki:\n>> http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007#head-ecb5564d71e4093e2e93e508380407a26dbcbdea\n> \n> Oha, is this a Git User's Survey or a Git Potential Contributor's Survey?\n> I thought this is some kind of demographic question about the \"programming\n> background\" of the user.\n\nWell, truth to be told it is both. We try here to kill two birds with\none stone: both to have 'programming background' of Git users, and get\nto know which parts of code can have many contributors, and which\ncould have troubles attracting contributors because of the language\nthey are written in (which is visible in the choice of programming\nlanguages in 2007 survey).\n \nIf we want to provide larger number of programming languages to\nchose from (with \"other\" as fallback), we could take for example\ntop 10 from the TIOBE index, or similar sites:\n http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html (for July 2008)\n http://lui.arbingersys.com/index.html (Language Usage Indicators, Jul 10, 2008)\n\nThis would bring 'Visual Basic', and perhaps 'Assembly' and 'Lisp'\nto the list of choices.\n\n>> And of course \"I am not programmer\" response...\n> \n> This doesn't make sense, does it?\n>\n> I know that there are non-programmer's who use git for there\n> configuration files and other non-programming track files, but\n> this looks somehow wrong in this survey.\n\nYou can manage documents and like (especially written in some\nformatting language), you can manage web pages, you can also\nuse git to only _track_ some projects even if you are not\na programmer yourself.\n\nSee for example\n http://www.kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2008/06/29/git-bibs/\n http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/86\n http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33830\n http://www.secomputing.co.uk/2008/06/engineering-log-book.html\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84697","messageId":"bd6139dc0807240311t664aa76t4ab56e20b4e62b43@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807240149.27371.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Sverre Rabbelier","fromEmail":"alturin@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T10:11:19Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T10:11:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"alturin@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Dnia środa 23. lipca 2008 17:14, Jean-François Veillette napisał:\n>> Consider\n>> http://www.survs.com\n>> It is still in beta but already years ahead of the proposed solution.\n>> I don't know about the specific of the beta (cost, availability,\n>> etc.) but I had a live presentation of the product and it is an\n>> amazingly great product !\n>\n> It certainly _looks_ nice, but it lacks one very important feature\n> (or at least I was not able to find it): the ability to download *RAW*\n> data to analyse it off-line using more advanced tools (like for\n> example Perl script to clean-up responses; spreadsheet like Excel or\n> Gnumeric, or some statictics tool like R to analyze data, for example\n> do a correlation between responses to different questions).\n\nI created an account myself and gave it a try. You -can- export in\neither an excel sheet or csv through: Surveys > [name of survey] >\nAnalyze > Export.\n\n> http://www.survey.net.nz allows to download raw data in modified\n> CSV format (modified as it allows for line continuation). See for\n> example raw data for Git User's Survey 2007 results:\n> http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2007?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=surveydata.csv\n\nAs said, the same is possible at the Survs thing, even line\ncontinuations work I think. Below is an sample export of a quick\nsurvey I created and filled in myself. Looks pretty parsable to me :).\n\n\n\n\n\"Git Survey 2008\"\n\"Viewed\",1\n\"Incomplete\",0\n\"Complete\",1\n\n\"Respondent Number\",\"Date\",\"Time\",\"What country are you in?\",\"What is\nthe language you prefer git to communicate with you?\",\"How old are you\n(in years)?\",\"How did you hear about Git?\",\"How are you doing?\"\n\"\",\"\",\"\",\"\",\"\",\"\",\"\",\"\"\n2,\"Jul 24, 08\",\"11:06:56\",\"Netherlands\",\"Dutch\",\"19\",\"News site or\nmagazine, Blog entry, IRC, Mailing list\",\"Very well, thank you very\nmuch. I was hoping you would ask that question as I was trying to tell\nsomeone that this survs thing is quite nice, actually.\nThe only downside so far is that you cannot prepare a survey offline\nand then upload it to the site.\nI'm sure that won't be a problem though.\"\n\n\n\n\n> There is another nice thing that http://www.survey.net.nz is supposed\n> to have (but it doesn't unfortunately work; at least downloading\n> current layout of survey to tweak off-line doesn't/didn't work),\n> namely ability to create survey off-line using some specified text\n> format, and upload it, instead of creating it on-line (which might be\n> much work for large surveys).\n\nAgreed, it would be nice to have something like this. Especially when\nadding a bunch of options. It doesn't seem that Survs allows you to\ncreate the Surveys offline, but if it doesn'tw ork at survey.net.nz\nanyway...?\n\n-- \nCheers,\n\nSverre Rabbelier\n"},{"id":"84698","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.10.0807240331220.3721@asgard.lang.hm","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080724085725.GA6092@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"","fromEmail":"david@lang.hm","sentAt":"2008-07-24T10:37:10Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T10:37:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"david@lang.hm","avatar":null},"body":"On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n\n> Hi,\n>\n> david@lang.hm wrote:\n>>>> And of course \"I am not programmer\" response...\n>>>\n>>> This doesn't make sense, does it?\n>>> I know that there are non-programmer's who use git for there\n>>> configuration files and other non-programming track files, but\n>>> this looks somehow wrong in this survey.\n>>\n>> there are non-programmers who use git to track projects that they want to\n>> be able to run the latest versions of. they don't program, just git pull;\n>> make;make install\n>\n> Ahh, you're totally right. :)\n> I wonder if those users take part in a Git User's Survey. We'll see. :)\n\nit depends on how it gets sent out.\n\nif it's just sent to the git lists you won't have many of those users, if \nit's sent to lists of projects that use git (and/or publicised in the \nnewsletters of those projects) we'll get a lot more of them.\n\ndue to the concern abot spamming too many lists, I'd suggest getting in \ncontact with the project leaders and see what they would like or not like. \nI suspect that many of them will be happy to have the survey go out to \ntheir users so that git can improve based on the feedback and their users \ncan think less about git and more about their project ;-)\n\nif most of the project leaders are willing or eager to get the info out \nit seems reasonable to go ahead and send a single message out to the other \nlists, but if a lot of them are opposed, definantly don't send it anywhere \nyou didn't get a response.\n\nDavid Lang\n"},{"id":"84699","messageId":"200807241244.18034.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807231659210.8986@racer","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T10:44:17Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T10:44:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Dnia środa 23. lipca 2008 18:00, Johannes Schindelin napisał:\n> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Robin Rosenberg wrote:\n>> onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>> \n>>>>> Some people prefer to stay anonymous, so I think email is out.\n>>>>> \n>>>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n>>>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n>>>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n>>>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n>>>>>> Ruby,...?)\n>>>>> \n>>>>> Yes, I think this should be a long list.\n>>>> \n>>>> I'd rather not have a \"laundry list\" of languages. I have put C++ \n>>>> because QGit uses it, Java because of egit/jgit, PHP for web \n>>>> interfaces, Ruby because of GitHub and because of Ruby comminity \n>>>> choosing Git. I should perhaps add Emacs Lisp, HTML+CSS and \n>>>> JavaScript here. What other languages should be considered?\n>>> \n>>> C# at least, since we had one (pretty unsuccessful) attempt at \n>>> reimplementing Git in it.\n>> \n>> What is the reason for the question? Do we want to know what languages\n>> people would like to contribute to Git in or do we want to know what \"kind\"\n>> of programmers are attracted by Git? Making it a long list should make\n>> it easier to tabulate the responses.\n> \n> \"could contribute\" is more appropriate IMHO. Although you might be right \n> to ask \"would like to contribute\"... ;-)\n\nI think it is both. We would like to know what kind of programmers\n(and non-programmers) are attracted to Git, and also what languages\ncould people contribute to Git.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84702","messageId":"48886B8F.6000304@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7vsku1gqny.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Marek Zawirski","fromEmail":"marek.zawirski@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T11:46:23Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T11:46:23Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"marek.zawirski@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski writes:\n> (...)\n> \n>> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>> - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n>> management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n>> gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n>> shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n>> add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n>> templates, bisect, other (not mentioned here)\n>> \nI've got lost a little bit in this discussion, but some question about \nused GUI for Git maybe interesting - the above one is touching the \nproblem. Just egit is missing there.\n\n(...)\n>> 40. Do you read the mailing list?\n>> - yes/no\n>> \n>\n> Which mailing list? Do we want to ask about alternative lists?\n>\n> I am not sure how and where, but I think j/egit should also be\n> mentioned and/or asked about.\n> \nThere is no separate mailing list for j/egit, we just used private mails \nfor some discussions/less important notifications.\n"},{"id":"84703","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807241308260.8986@racer","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"48886B8F.6000304@gmail.com","subject":"Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-07-24T12:09:53Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T12:09:53Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Marek Zawirski wrote:\n\n> Junio C Hamano wrote:\n\n> > I am not sure how and where, but I think j/egit should also be \n> > mentioned and/or asked about.\n>\n> There is no separate mailing list for j/egit, we just used private mails \n> for some discussions/less important notifications.\n\nI hope not for too much, because this is one of the lessons of last year's \nGSoC (and to a large degree this year's Gitorrent project): if you keep \nthe project too secret, nobody will know, and as a consequence nobody will \ncare.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"84717","messageId":"200807241607.07540.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"48886B8F.6000304@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T14:07:06Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T14:07:06Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, 24 July 2008, Marek Zawirski wrote:\n> Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>> Jakub Narebski writes:\n>> (...)\n>> \n>>> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>> - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n>>> management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n>>> gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n>>> shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n>>> add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n>>> templates, bisect, other (not mentioned here)\n>>> \n> I've got lost a little bit in this discussion, but some question about \n> used GUI for Git maybe interesting - the above one is touching the \n> problem. Just egit is missing there.\n\nActually jgit is in the list of possible choices for the following\nquestion:\n 16. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n\nBut you have remind me about one feature that is missing from the 27.\nlist, namely \"integration with IDE/editor\" (I mean here things like\negit for Eclipse, future KDevelop DVCS integration, future Anjuta\nGit integration, git.el or DVC for Emacs, plugin for TextMate, etc.)\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84725","messageId":"48889591.9020208@freescale.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jon Loeliger","fromEmail":"jdl@freescale.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T14:45:37Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T14:45:37Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jdl@jdl.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/75ce9a10b151acd2c28ec4ab2136dba7b2ff1634530bd04b155981a749d08a64?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>\n> About you\n> \n> 01. What country are you in?\n> 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n\nHow about: What is your preferred natural language?\n\n> 03. How old are you (in years)?\n> (free form, integer)\n> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n\nPerhaps:\n With which programming languages are you proficient?\n\n> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> Ruby,...?)\n> \n> \n> Getting started with GIT\n> \n> 05. How did you hear about Git?\n> (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n> - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n> news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n> presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n> IRC, mailing list, other Internet, other off-line, other(*)\n> + the problem is with having not very long list (not too many\n> choices), but spanning all possibilities.\n\nSo go more general? Don't specify actual news (web)sites.\nDon't forge that there is a whole raft of Ruby-n-rails folks who\nare embracing Git these days too. They have their own whole 'nuther\nset of mailing lists, websites, (news) lists, etc.\n\n> + is this question interesting/important to have in survey?\n\nLook to the history to answer this question. Did we really\nlearn anything from the earlier surveys by this question?\nMaybe it would make more sense to get a feel for which general\ncamp led them to Git? That is, did they come from the Kernel\nside of the world, or Ruby-on-Rails, or self-exploration, etc.\n\n> 06. Did you find GIT easy to learn?\n> - very easy/easy/reasonably/hard/very hard\n\nBut that has to be contrasted with their _current_ notion\nin order to know if they make progress or not. If the\ndifficulty persists, we're in trouble. If it is just a\nsteep learning curve, we might be able to address that.\n\nSo maybe some variant questions like:\n How do you find it now (after some use)?\n same [very easy..very hard] scale\n How long have you been using Git?\n Rate your own Git proficiency:\n [noob, casual, I survive, everyday use,\n I answer questions from others,\n I use plumbing in scripts daily,\n Power User, Godly, I am Junio]\n\n> 07. What helped you most in learning to use it?\n> (free form question)\n> 08. What did you find hardest in learning Git?\n> What did you find harderst in using Git?\n> (free form question)\n> 09. When did you start using git? From which version?\n> - pre 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5\n\nIt's likely that most people don't know the specific answer\nto that question and will just guess, if anything. It is\nalso semi-subject to time-slide as old installs are made on\ndifferent distributions [*cough*] Debian. I think the question\n\"How long have you been using Git?\" Might be more easily\nanswered and show better data. (Adoption curve.)\n\n> + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n> + perhaps we should ask in addition to this question, or in place\n> of this question (replacing it) what git version one uses; it\n> should be multiple choice, and allow 'master', 'next', 'pu',\n> 'dirty (with own modifications)' versions in addition.\n\n> \n> Other SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n> \n> 10. What other SCM did or do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - CVS, Subversion, GNU Arch or arch clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n> Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev, Perforce,\n> BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe, MS Visual Studio\n> Team System, custom, other(*)\n\nWhat? No SCCS?\n\n> 10b.If you selected other above, what SCM it was?\n\ns/it was/was it/\n\n> (free form)\n> 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n\nThat's a bit vague... First, maybe they didn't choose Git.\nMaybe they are on a project where it was mandated.\nSo, Why did they choose Git for _what_?\n\nAre we trying to ask \"Why did you decide to use Git?\" ?\n\n> What do you like about using Git?\n> (free form, not to be tabulated)\n\nPresuming they do... :-) So, maybe add:\n\n I enjoy using Git: [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n Git satisfies my use cases: [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n I prefer Git over CVS/SVN: [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n\nOr so...\n\n> 12. Why did you choose other SCMs? (if you use other SCMs)\n> What do you like about using other SCMs?\n> Note: please write name of SCMs you are talking about.\n> (free form, not to be tabulated).\n> \n> \n> How you use Git\n> \n> 13. Do you use Git for work, unpaid projects, or both?\n> (single choice)\n> - work/unpaid projects/both\n\nBut there are other uses too. I use it for personal crap\nlike my Brewing Log. Sure, it is an \"unpaid project\", but\nthat's not very useful information. Maybe it would make\nsense to expand this question into, say, 10 choices that\nwe feel are likely uses cases and see what the actual\ndemographics are. That is, the two-part-with-waffle isn't\nthat informative.\n\nMaybe:\n I use Git for: [check all that apply]\n Work projects\n Personal data\n Unpaid Open Source Development\n Sharing Data with my Niece\n Maintaining my Website\n Backending my Blog\netc.\n\nMy point here is that we can learn what Git is being\nused for, and ....\n\n Although for some reason I can't yet, I would\n really like to use Git for:\n My Wordpress backend\n Maintaining my {pr0n,mp3} Collection\n Work projects\n Sharing data with my boss\netc.\n\nThat would give us a sense of direction possibly.\nIt might provide a notion as to what people are wanting\nto do, but for some reason find it hard to pull off.\nThat is, help us identify use-cases that are being limited\nbut would otherwise be adoptive.\n\n> 14. How do you obtain Git?\n> - binary package/source package or source script(*)/\n> source tarball/pull from main repository\n> (*) this includes source based distributions like Gentoo\n> + added new option: source package or source script\n> + should this be multiple choice?\n> 15. What operating system do you use Git on?\n> (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n> - Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n> MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n> + \"What hardware platforms do you use GIT on?\" question was\n> removed; should it stay?\n> 15b.If you selected \"other UNIX\", or \"other\", what operating system\n> or systems it was/were?\n> (free form)\n> 16. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - core-git, Cogito (deprecated), StGIT, Guilt, pg (deprecated),\n> Pyrite, Easy Git, IsiSetup, jgit, my own scripts, other\n> 16b.If you selected \"other porcelain\", what is its name?\n> (free form)\n> 17. Which git GUI (commit tool or history viewer, or both) do you use\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - CLI, gitk, git-gui, qgit, gitview, giggle, tig, instaweb,\n> (h)gct, qct, KGit, git-cola / ugit, GitNub, Pyrite, git.el, other\n> 17b.If you selected \"other GUI\", what is its name?\n> (free form)\n> 18. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), other\n> + should there be a question about web server (Apache, IIS, ...)\n> used to host git web interface?\n\nProbably not. Most people might not even know.\n\n> 18b.If you selected \"other web interface\", what it was?\n> (free form)\n> 19. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle, other\n> 19b.If the way you publish your changes is not mentioned above, how\n> do you publish your changes?\n> (free form)\n> 20. Does git.git repository include code produced by you?\n> - yes/no\n> \n> \n> What you think of Git\n> \n> 21. Overall, how happy are you with Git?\n> - unhappy/not so happy/happy/very happy/completely ecstatic\n> 22. How does Git compare to other SCM tools you have used?\n> - worse/equal (or comparable)/better\n> 23. What would you most like to see improved about Git?\n> (features, bugs, plug-ins, documentation, ...)\n> 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n> think we could do to make this happen?\n> + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we need wider adoption?\n\nHmmm. See some ramblings of mine above too... :-)\n\n> \n> Changes in Git (since year ago, or since you started using it)\n> \n> 25. Did you participate in previous Git User's Surveys?\n> (zero or more, multiple choice)\n> - 2006, 2007\n> 26. How do you compare current version with version from year ago?\n> - current version is: better/worse/no changes\n\nMore fine detail needed there? To help identify what people\nthink have improved and what has not yet improved?\n\nSince you started using Git, rate how the following\nfunctional areas have/have-not improved:\n The User Interface [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n The command line interface [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n The intuitive behavior [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n The overall experience\n The behavior of 'fetch'\n The behavior of \"git log'\n The config file\netc.\n\nA -5 means it still sucks or got worse, 0 is neutral\nor no opinion, and +5 means it rocks or got better.\nThis would give us direct feedback indicating if we,\nas a whole, are headed in the right direction with our\ndevelopment efforts. It will also directly tell us\nwhich features people find still suck.\n\nWe should attempt to get direct feedback on many Git features.\n\n> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion,\n> gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n> shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n> add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n> templates, bisect, other (not mentioned here)\n> + should probably be sorted in some resemblance of order\n> + are there any new features which should be listed here?\n> 28. If you use some important Git features not mentioned above,\n> what are it?\n> (free form)\n> \n> \n> Documentation\n> \n> 29. Do you use the Git wiki?\n> - yes/no\n> 30. Do you find Git wiki useful?\n> - yes/no/somewhat\n> 31. Do you contribute to Git wiki?\n> - yes/no/only corrections or spam removal\n\nIf \"no\", why not? [Wikis suck, I don't know the answers, no time...]\n\n> 32. Do you find Git's on-line help (homepage, documentation) useful?\n> - yes/no/somewhat\n\nConfusing.\n\n> 33. Do you find help distributed with Git useful\n> (manpages, manual, tutorial, HOWTO, release notes)?\n> - yes/no/somewhat\n> 34. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n> (free form)\n> 35. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n> (free form)\n> \n> \n> Getting help, staying in touch\n> \n> 36. Have you tried to get Git help from other people?\n> - yes/no\n> 37. What channel did you use to request help?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - git mailing list, git users group, IRC, blog post, \n> other\n> + this is one question which doesn't need, I think, explanation\n> of \"other\" choice\n> 38. If yes, did you get these problems resolved quickly\n> and to your liking?\n> - yes/no\n> 39. Would commerical (paid) support from a support vendor\n> be of interest to you/your organization?\n> - yes/no/not applicable\n\ns/commerical/commercial/\n\n> 40. Do you read the mailing list?\n> - yes/no\n> 41. If yes, do you find it useful?\n> - yes/no (optional)\n> 42. Do you find traffic levels on Git mailing list OK.\n> - yes/no? (optional)\n\n I find the mailing list traffic level to be:\n [too low, OK, just right, tolerable, intolerable,\n a bit high, absurdly high]\n\n> 43. Do you use the IRC channel (#git on irc.freenode.net)?\n> - yes/no\n> 44. If yes, do you find IRC channel useful?\n> - yes/no (optional)\n> 45. Did you have problems getting GIT help on mailing list or\n> on IRC channel? What were it? What could be improved?\n> (free form)\n> \n> Open forum\n> \n> 46. What other comments or suggestions do you have that are not\n> covered by the questions above?\n> (free form)\n> \n\nI've got to ... ramble on,\njdl\n"},{"id":"84759","messageId":"20080724175714.GZ2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Dmitry Potapov","fromEmail":"dpotapov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T17:57:14Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T17:57:14Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dpotapov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6568595?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Is there some channel that I have forgot about? \n\nIf the start of this survey can be timed to release 1.6.0 then the\nannounce about Git 1.6.0 release may also contain reference to that\nsurvey, and because release announcements are usually widely distributed\nby online magazines such as LinuxToday and LWN, anyone who is interested\nin Git will learn about this survey too.\n\nDmitry\n"},{"id":"84762","messageId":"20080724180849.GA2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807232349.42244.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Dmitry Potapov","fromEmail":"dpotapov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T18:08:50Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T18:08:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dpotapov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6568595?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:49:41PM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > >\n> > > 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> > > (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n> > \n> > IMHO, the later wording of the question is much better.\n> \n> First just satisfies demographic curiosity. Second is more question\n> about internationalization (i18n).\n\nI think demographic is largely covered by the first question about\ncountry. As to i18n, I don't think it is fully covered just by the\nquestion about one's language preference to communicate with computer\n(which is probably is more correctly to call localization). Possible\nquestions related to i18n are:\n- Do you use file names with non-ASCII characters?\n- Do you use text files with non-ASCII characters?\n- Do you (or members of your team) use computers with different\n character sets and have to deal with non-ASCII characters?\n\nBut I guess we do not want to have so many questions. So, maybe\nsomething simple instead:\n- Are you satisfied with support for non-ASCII characters in Git?\n\n> Should \"What version do you use now?\" be multiple choice (using git\n> on more than one machine / operating system)?\n\nI think we already have another question about what OS one uses.\nSo I believe it should be only version number here.\n\n> What should be possible\n> choices for \"How long do you use git?\"? Perhaps.\n> \n> 10. How long do you use git?\n> (single choice)\n> - never/few days/few weeks/month/few months/year/few years/\n> from beginning/I wrote it(*)\n> + (*) just kidding ;-)\n\nI would rather use numbers like that:\n\nnever\nless than month\n1-3 months\n3-6 months\n6-12 months\n1-2 year\nmore than 2 years\nfrom the beginning\n\nDmitry\n"},{"id":"84764","messageId":"200807242018.27663.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"48889591.9020208@freescale.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T18:18:27Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T18:18:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, 24 July 2008, Jon Loeliger wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >\n> > About you\n> > \n> > 01. What country are you in?\n> > 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> > (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n> \n> How about: What is your preferred natural language?\n\nPerhaps it is a better formulation. I am not native English speaker.\n(But so would be some people who would answer this survey).\n\nThe problem with this question is that people does not understand it,\nand either do not answer or answer for example with computer language\n(C, Perl, or something like that). For 2007 survey, when the question\nwas formulated as \"02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\"\nthere were 37 invalid responses (computer language), and 4 \"not \nunderstand\" responses out of 662 people who answered this question.\n\nOn of the goals (besides curiosity about demographics) of this question\nis to get to know if Git core should provide infrastructure for \ntranslating messages, in addition to what already exists for git-gui \nand gitk. But as currently there are no other questions about l10n\nand i18n perhaps it would be better to simply remove this question.\n\n> > 03. How old are you (in years)?\n> > (free form, integer)\n> > 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> \n> Perhaps:\n> With which programming languages are you proficient?\n\nAgain: I am not native English speaker.\n\n> > Getting started with GIT\n> > \n> > 05. How did you hear about Git?\n> > (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n> > - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n> > news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n> > presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line),\n> > SCM research, IRC, mailing list, other Internet,\n> > other off-line, other(*) \n> > + the problem is with having not very long list (not too many\n> > choices), but spanning all possibilities.\n> \n> So go more general? Don't specify actual news (web)sites.\n\nI didn't mean here enumerating actual news (web)sites, but to provide \nexamples.\n\n> Don't forge that there is a whole raft of Ruby-n-rails folks who\n> are embracing Git these days too. They have their own whole 'nuther\n> set of mailing lists, websites, (news) lists, etc.\n>\n> > + is this question interesting/important to have in survey?\n> \n> Look to the history to answer this question. Did we really\n> learn anything from the earlier surveys by this question?\n> Maybe it would make more sense to get a feel for which general\n> camp led them to Git? That is, did they come from the Kernel\n> side of the world, or Ruby-on-Rails, or self-exploration, etc.\n\nThat is what I think we want to find through this question.\nUnfortunately I have found about Git by reading KernelTraffic\nand later KernelTrap during the whole \"BitKeeper fiasco\"; I have\nnext to no idea about how other people have heard about Git.\nHelp!?\n\nThere is other side to this question, _if_ we were some company, or/and \n_if_ we were concerned about making Git more popular, namely to \nidentify the paces where \"advertising\" would make most impact.\n \n> > 06. Did you find GIT easy to learn?\n> > - very easy/easy/reasonably/hard/very hard\n> \n> But that has to be contrasted with their _current_ notion\n> in order to know if they make progress or not. If the\n> difficulty persists, we're in trouble. If it is just a\n> steep learning curve, we might be able to address that.\n>\n> So maybe some variant questions like:\n> How do you find it now (after some use)?\n> same [very easy..very hard] scale\n> How long have you been using Git?\n\nThe question is here to either dispel the myth that Git is hard to \nlearn, or find that we have steep learning curve and that we should \nperhaps do something about it.\n\n> Rate your own Git proficiency:\n> [noob, casual, I survive, everyday use,\n> I answer questions from others,\n> I use plumbing in scripts daily,\n> Power User, Godly, I am Junio]\n\nGood idea about question about Git proficiency.\n\n> > 07. What helped you most in learning to use it?\n> > (free form question)\n> > 08. What did you find hardest in learning Git?\n> > What did you find harderst in using Git?\n> > (free form question)\n> > 09. When did you start using git? From which version?\n> > - pre 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5\n> \n> It's likely that most people don't know the specific answer\n> to that question and will just guess, if anything. It is\n> also semi-subject to time-slide as old installs are made on\n> different distributions [*cough*] Debian. I think the question\n> \"How long have you been using Git?\" Might be more easily\n> answered and show better data. (Adoption curve.)\n\nTrue. I think \"How long have you been using Git?\" with log-like\nmultiple choice scale: few days/few weeks/month/few months/year/few \nyears would be better idea.\n\nOn the other hand knowing which version someone started his/her\n\"Git adventure\" would help to find probable causes where some of ideas \nabout git were already corrected in later versions...\n\n> > + might be important when checking \"what did you find\n> > hardest\" etc. \n> > + perhaps we should ask in addition to this question, or in\n> > place of this question (replacing it) what git version one\n> > uses; it should be multiple choice, and allow 'master',\n> > 'next', 'pu', 'dirty (with own modifications)' versions\n> > in addition. \n\nIt would be next (additional) question, probably multiple choice, and \neasy to check out with \"git version\" or \"git --version\" command. \n \n> > Other SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n> > \n> > 10. What other SCM did or do you use?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - CVS, Subversion, GNU Arch or arch clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n> > Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev,\n> > Perforce, BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe,\n> > MS Visual Studio Team System, custom, other(*)\n> \n> What? No SCCS?\n\nHmmm... SCCS got 18 out of 654 responses, only one less than SVK.\nI'd add it to the list of choices for this question, then.\n\n> > 10b.If you selected other above, what SCM it was?\n> \n> s/it was/was it/\n> \n> > (free form)\n> > 11. Why did you choose Git? (if you use Git)\n> \n> That's a bit vague... First, maybe they didn't choose Git.\n> Maybe they are on a project where it was mandated.\n> So, Why did they choose Git for _what_?\n> \n> Are we trying to ask \"Why did you decide to use Git?\" ?\n\nYes, that was I wanted to ask. \"Why do you use Git? (if you do use it)\".\n\n> > What do you like about using Git?\n> > (free form, not to be tabulated)\n> \n> Presuming they do... :-) So, maybe add:\n> \n> I enjoy using Git: [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n> Git satisfies my use cases: [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n> I prefer Git over CVS/SVN: [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n> \n> Or so...\n\nI'm not sure if it wouldn't be more interesting to have free-form here.\nI think we would get quite a number of unique and non-obvious answers.\n\nBesides the above form depends on survey site to be able to create such \nmatrix of responses...\n\n> > How you use Git\n> > \n> > 13. Do you use Git for work, unpaid projects, or both?\n> > (single choice)\n> > - work/unpaid projects/both\n> \n> But there are other uses too. I use it for personal crap\n> like my Brewing Log. Sure, it is an \"unpaid project\", but\n> that's not very useful information. Maybe it would make\n> sense to expand this question into, say, 10 choices that\n> we feel are likely uses cases and see what the actual\n> demographics are. That is, the two-part-with-waffle isn't\n> that informative.\n> \n> Maybe:\n> I use Git for: [check all that apply]\n> Work projects\n> Personal data\n> Unpaid Open Source Development\n> Sharing Data with my Niece\n> Maintaining my Website\n> Backending my Blog\n> etc.\n\nVery good idea. This way we can share this question with question about \nkind of data one uses Git for.\n\nBy the way, perhaps we should split \"Work projects\" into \"Work projects\"\nand \"Work projects (private git)\" to distinguish between cases where Git \nis used at work, and where you use Git privately (for example via \ngit-svn, or git-p4) to interact with other SCM that is used at work.\n \n> My point here is that we can learn what Git is being\n> used for, and ....\n> \n> Although for some reason I can't yet, I would\n> really like to use Git for:\n> My Wordpress backend\n> Maintaining my {pr0n,mp3} Collection\n> Work projects\n> Sharing data with my boss\n> etc.\n> \n> That would give us a sense of direction possibly.\n> It might provide a notion as to what people are wanting\n> to do, but for some reason find it hard to pull off.\n> That is, help us identify use-cases that are being limited\n> but would otherwise be adoptive.\n\nHmmmm...\n\n> > 18. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), other\n> > + should there be a question about web server (Apache,\n> > IIS, webrick, LigHTTPd, ...) used to host git web interface?\n> \n> Probably not. Most people might not even know.\n\nI can agree with that.\n\nOn the other hand the purpose of this question was to get a list\nof most popular servers to put example configuration for hosting git \nrepositories via HTTP(S) protocol, and for setting up gitweb.\n\n> > What you think of Git\n> >\n> > 24. If you want to see Git more widely used, what do you\n> > think we could do to make this happen?\n> > + Is this question necessary/useful? Do we _need_\n> > wider adoption? \n> \n> Hmmm. See some ramblings of mine above too... :-)\n\nWhat ramblings were they?\n\n> > \n> > Changes in Git (since year ago, or since you started using it)\n> > \n> > 26. How do you compare current version with version from\n> > year ago? \n> > - current version is: better/worse/no changes\n\nThe list of possible answers should (just in case, because you can \nsimply not answer this question, although some would not know this)\nalso \"I don't know, I didn't use Git for a year\".\n\n> More fine detail needed there? To help identify what people\n> think have improved and what has not yet improved?\n> \n> Since you started using Git, rate how the following\n> functional areas have/have-not improved:\n> The User Interface [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n> The command line interface [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n> The intuitive behavior [-5 .. 0 .. +5]\n> The overall experience\n> The behavior of 'fetch'\n> The behavior of \"git log'\n> The config file\n> etc.\n\nThis of course depends on web survey site allowing such feature\nin survey.\n\n> A -5 means it still sucks or got worse, 0 is neutral\n> or no opinion, and +5 means it rocks or got better.\n> This would give us direct feedback indicating if we,\n> as a whole, are headed in the right direction with our\n> development efforts. It will also directly tell us\n> which features people find still suck.\n> \n> We should attempt to get direct feedback on many Git features.\n\nThe trouble of course would be with coming up with the \"laundry list\" of \nfeatures people did or can have a problem with.\n \n> > Documentation\n> > \n> > 31. Do you contribute to Git wiki?\n> > - yes/no/only corrections or spam removal\n> \n> If \"no\", why not?\n\nGood idea. \n\n> [Wikis suck, I don't know the answers, no time...]\n\n[We have a wiki???] ;-)\n \n> > 32. Do you find Git's on-line help (homepage, documentation)\n> > useful? \n> > - yes/no/somewhat\n> \n> Confusing.\n\nI think it would fall in \"somewhat\" category I think.\n\n> > Getting help, staying in touch\n> > \n> > 42. Do you find traffic levels on Git mailing list OK.\n> > - yes/no? (optional)\n> \n> I find the mailing list traffic level to be:\n> [too low, OK, just right, tolerable, intolerable,\n> a bit high, absurdly high]\n\nGood idea of expanding the list of answers, otherwise it is hard to \nanswer this question. Although perceived signal to noise ratio might \nbe more important than bare traffic.\n \n> > Open forum\n> > \n> > 46. What other comments or suggestions do you have that are not\n> > covered by the questions above?\n> > (free form)\n> > \n> \n> I've got to ... ramble on,\n\n:-DDDDD\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84767","messageId":"200807242042.58289.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080724175714.GZ2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T18:42:57Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T18:42:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >\n> > Is there some channel that I have forgot about? \n> \n> If the start of this survey can be timed to release 1.6.0 then the\n> announce about Git 1.6.0 release may also contain reference to that\n> survey, and because release announcements are usually widely distributed\n> by online magazines such as LinuxToday and LWN, anyone who is interested\n> in Git will learn about this survey too.\n\nYou can send a story to LWN with two weeks notice; IIRC Git user's\nSurvey 2007 was announced in LWN around the middle of its duration.\nI don't know about LinuxToday / Linux.com.\n\nIIRC tentative date for 1.6.0 release is around August 10. It is\nquite a bit of time from now. On the other hand that mean lot\nof time to prepare questions, and to put survey on the web.\n\nP.S. are there enough of us to Digg / Mixx / Reddit\nGit User's Survey 2008 announcement? ;-P \n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84771","messageId":"d028d8030807241150j4ce755aal53158c5c88db7078@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807242018.27663.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Lachele Foley (Lists)","fromEmail":"lf.list@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T18:50:59Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T18:50:59Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"lf.list@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":">> > 01. What country are you in?\n>> > 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n>> > (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n>>\n>> How about: What is your preferred natural language?\n>\n> Perhaps it is a better formulation. I am not native English speaker.\n> (But so would be some people who would answer this survey).\n\nAccording to Wikipedia\n(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_language), \"natural language\"\ncould include, for example, bee dances. \"...a language that is\nspoken, written, or signed by animals for general-purpose\ncommunication...\" And, it might also exclude constructed languages\nlike Esperanto and Klingon. How about:\n\n02. What language do you prefer to use when communicating with people?\n\nIn case there are, for example, any Klingons, sentient machines, etc.,\nin the audience, the sentence does not assume the answerer is human...\n :-) It's a tricky question to write.\n\nI'm a total newbie here, by the way.\n\n01. USA\n02. Probably best I stick to English, but I'm willing to negotiate.\n06. Not sure yet.\n09. Last month. I think.\n\n-- \n:-) Lachele\nLachele Foley\nCCRC/UGA\n"},{"id":"84796","messageId":"200807242306.26742.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080724180849.GA2925@dpotapov.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T21:06:26Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T21:06:26Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, 24 July 2008, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:49:41PM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 03:25:03AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>\n>>>> 02. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n>>>> (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n>>> \n>>> IMHO, the later wording of the question is much better.\n>> \n>> First just satisfies demographic curiosity. Second is more question\n>> about internationalization (i18n).\n> \n> I think demographic is largely covered by the first question about\n> country. As to i18n, I don't think it is fully covered just by the\n> question about one's language preference to communicate with computer\n> (which is probably is more correctly to call localization). Possible\n> questions related to i18n are:\n> - Do you use file names with non-ASCII characters?\n> - Do you use text files with non-ASCII characters?\n> - Do you (or members of your team) use computers with different\n> character sets and have to deal with non-ASCII characters?\n> \n> But I guess we do not want to have so many questions. So, maybe\n> something simple instead:\n> - Are you satisfied with support for non-ASCII characters in Git?\n\nBut only if it is free-form question:\n\n xx. Are you satisfied with support for non-ASCII characters in Git?\n Yes or No? If no, please explain what you had problems with.\n (free form, or rather Yes/No + explanation for No)\n\nIf we decide to add more questions about translating Git, I think\nwe should also add the following:\n\n xx. Which parts of Git would you like/do you need translated?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - git-gui, gitk, manpages, user's manual, commands messages\n\n>> Should \"What version do you use now?\" be multiple choice (using git\n>> on more than one machine / operating system)?\n> \n> I think we already have another question about what OS one uses.\n> So I believe it should be only version number here.\n\nOne can use Git on many different machines (for example at work, and\nat home), or on multi-boot machine (with more than one operating\nsystem). Each of those machines, and/or each of those operating\nsystems can use different version of Git. So that is why I think\nthis should be multiple choice, even if I guess that most people\nwould select only one answer.\n\n>> What should be possible\n>> choices for \"How long do you use git?\"? Perhaps.\n>> \n>> 10. How long do you use git?\n>> (single choice)\n>> - never/few days/few weeks/month/few months/year/few years/\n>> from beginning/I wrote it(*)\n>> + (*) just kidding ;-)\n> \n> I would rather use numbers like that:\n> \n> never\n> less than month\n> 1-3 months\n> 3-6 months\n> 6-12 months\n> 1-2 year\n> more than 2 years\n> from the beginning\n\nI think it is even better; I'm not sure if we shouldn't split sub-month\nregion, for example to provide for people who has heard of git for\nfirst time, but played with it a little bit.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84797","messageId":"200807242308.19663.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"d028d8030807241150j4ce755aal53158c5c88db7078@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-24T21:08:19Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T21:08:19Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Lachele Foley wrote:\n\n> 01. USA\n> 02. Probably best I stick to English, but I'm willing to negotiate.\n> 06. Not sure yet.\n> 09. Last month.  I think.\n\nErrr... this email is _not_ a survey. It is an RFC, Request For \nComments, meant to come up with a good list of questions, and good list \nof possible answers for single choice/multiple choice questions.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84799","messageId":"20080724222227.GA907@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080723141224.GA17648@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-07-24T22:22:28Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-24T22:22:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"> > How you use Git\n\nI'd also like to see a question about what kind of content is tracked\nusing git.\n\n [ ] Source code\n [ ] Multimedia files\n [ ] LaTeX documents\n [ ] Office documents\n [ ] Configuration files\n [ ] Web content\n [ ] the whole root filesystem ;-)\n [ ] Other: _________________\n\nRegards.\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"84911","messageId":"20080725172313.GE21117@spearce.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807241308260.8986@racer","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2008-07-25T17:23:13Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-25T17:23:13Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Marek Zawirski wrote:\n> \n> > Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> \n> > > I am not sure how and where, but I think j/egit should also be \n> > > mentioned and/or asked about.\n> >\n> > There is no separate mailing list for j/egit, we just used private mails \n> > for some discussions/less important notifications.\n> \n> I hope not for too much, because this is one of the lessons of last year's \n> GSoC (and to a large degree this year's Gitorrent project): if you keep \n> the project too secret, nobody will know, and as a consequence nobody will \n> care.\n\nWe've done most patch review discussions right here on git@vger,\nbut yea, some stuff happens in private. I think what happens in\nprivate this year on egit is really just the standard mentor-student\nworking relationship prior to posting patches for discussion.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"84920","messageId":"7vr69hsss1.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080725172313.GE21117@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-07-25T18:49:50Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-25T18:49:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"\"Shawn O. Pearce\" writes:\n\n> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Marek Zawirski wrote:\n>> \n>> > Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>> \n>> > > I am not sure how and where, but I think j/egit should also be \n>> > > mentioned and/or asked about.\n>> >\n>> > There is no separate mailing list for j/egit, we just used private mails \n>> > for some discussions/less important notifications.\n>> \n>> I hope not for too much, because this is one of the lessons of last year's \n>> GSoC (and to a large degree this year's Gitorrent project): if you keep \n>> the project too secret, nobody will know, and as a consequence nobody will \n>> care.\n>\n> We've done most patch review discussions right here on git@vger,\n> but yea, some stuff happens in private. I think what happens in\n> private this year on egit is really just the standard mentor-student\n> working relationship prior to posting patches for discussion.\n\nSorry for causing confusion in the discussion, but I was not talking about\n\"mailing list on e/jgit\".\n\nWhat I meant was that we might want to have a few more questions about\ne/jgit as an independent entity in the survey, as it is a completely\ndifferent re-implementation of the same git theme.\n"},{"id":"84958","messageId":"200807252352.09751.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7vr69hsss1.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-25T21:52:08Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-25T21:52:08Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Fri, 25 Jul 2008, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> \"Shawn O. Pearce\" writes:\n>> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Marek Zawirski wrote:\n>>>> Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>>> \n>>>>> I am not sure how and where, but I think j/egit should also be \n>>>>> mentioned and/or asked about.\n>>>>\n>>>> There is no separate mailing list for j/egit, we just used private mails \n>>>> for some discussions/less important notifications.\n\n[cut]\n\n> \n> Sorry for causing confusion in the discussion, but I was not talking about\n> \"mailing list on e/jgit\".\n> \n> What I meant was that we might want to have a few more questions about\n> e/jgit as an independent entity in the survey, as it is a completely\n> different re-implementation of the same git theme.\n\nThere are two questions about egit/jgit planned for the survey:\n\n 16. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - core-git, Cogito (deprecated), StGIT, Guilt, pg (deprecated),\n Pyrite, Easy Git, IsiSetup, _jgit_, my own scripts, other(*)\n\n 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - Integration with IDE/editor (Eclipse, Emacs, TextMate,...)\n ...\n\nWhat question about egit/jgit would you like to have in the survey?\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"84959","messageId":"20080725215707.GC23202@spearce.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807252352.09751.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2008-07-25T21:57:07Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-25T21:57:07Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> > \n> > What I meant was that we might want to have a few more questions about\n> > e/jgit as an independent entity in the survey, as it is a completely\n> > different re-implementation of the same git theme.\n> \n> There are two questions about egit/jgit planned for the survey:\n> \n> 16. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - core-git, Cogito (deprecated), StGIT, Guilt, pg (deprecated),\n> Pyrite, Easy Git, IsiSetup, _jgit_, my own scripts, other(*)\n\npg should come out of this list in this version of the survey.\nIt never had a large user base and all of those users should have\nmoved away to something else by now.\n\nCogito has also been deprecated, and maybe should be removed from\nthe list, but it did have a larger user base so maybe we keep it\non this survey and we remove it from the next?\n\n> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - Integration with IDE/editor (Eclipse, Emacs, TextMate,...)\n> ...\n> \n> What question about egit/jgit would you like to have in the survey?\n\nI'm not certain what else I would want to ask that is egit/jgit\nspecific.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"84963","messageId":"7vabg5r4vy.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080725215707.GC23202@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-07-25T22:11:13Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-25T22:11:13Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"\"Shawn O. Pearce\" writes:\n\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>> > \n>> > What I meant was that we might want to have a few more questions about\n>> > e/jgit as an independent entity in the survey, as it is a completely\n>> > different re-implementation of the same git theme.\n>> \n>> There are two questions about egit/jgit planned for the survey:\n>> \n>> 16. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>> - core-git, Cogito (deprecated), StGIT, Guilt, pg (deprecated),\n>> Pyrite, Easy Git, IsiSetup, _jgit_, my own scripts, other(*)\n>\n> pg should come out of this list in this version of the survey.\n> It never had a large user base and all of those users should have\n> moved away to something else by now.\n>\n> Cogito has also been deprecated, and maybe should be removed from\n> the list, but it did have a larger user base so maybe we keep it\n> on this survey and we remove it from the next?\n>\n>> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>> - Integration with IDE/editor (Eclipse, Emacs, TextMate,...)\n>> ...\n>> \n>> What question about egit/jgit would you like to have in the survey?\n>\n> I'm not certain what else I would want to ask that is egit/jgit\n> specific.\n\nIf you do not have any specific questions you would want to see answers\nto, then my point was moot, which is fine.\n"},{"id":"84964","messageId":"20080725221331.GE23202@spearce.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7vabg5r4vy.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2008-07-25T22:13:31Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-25T22:13:31Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> > Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >\n> >> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n> >> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> >> - Integration with IDE/editor (Eclipse, Emacs, TextMate,...)\n> >> ...\n> >> \n> >> What question about egit/jgit would you like to have in the survey?\n> >\n> > I'm not certain what else I would want to ask that is egit/jgit\n> > specific.\n> \n> If you do not have any specific questions you would want to see answers\n> to, then my point was moot, which is fine.\n\nActually I'd like the editor integration to be broken out (if\nit isn't already) so we can see which editors (and thus which\nintegrations) are popular among users. I think it would help all\nof the integration authors, as well as make it clear to end-users\nwhere we have integration available/under development, in case they\nwere not aware of it previously.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"84966","messageId":"20080725221535.GT32184@machine.or.cz","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080725215707.GC23202@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2008-07-25T22:15:35Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-25T22:15:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 04:57:07PM -0500, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Cogito has also been deprecated, and maybe should be removed from\n> the list, but it did have a larger user base so maybe we keep it\n> on this survey and we remove it from the next?\n\nEven recently, I've found a lot of people still using Cogito. I would\nkeep it in the survey in this round and in next years, decide based on\nthe share it gets this time.\n\n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\n"},{"id":"85038","messageId":"200807261254.53939.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080725221331.GE23202@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-26T10:54:52Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T10:54:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Sat, 26 July 2008, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Junio C Hamano wrote:\n>>> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>\n>>>> 27. Which of the following features do you use?\n>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>>> - Integration with IDE/editor (Eclipse, Emacs, TextMate,...)\n>>>> ...\n>>>> \n>>>> What question about egit/jgit would you like to have in the survey?\n>>>\n>>> I'm not certain what else I would want to ask that is egit/jgit\n>>> specific.\n>> \n>> If you do not have any specific questions you would want to see answers\n>> to, then my point was moot, which is fine.\n> \n> Actually I'd like the editor integration to be broken out (if\n> it isn't already) so we can see which editors (and thus which\n> integrations) are popular among users. I think it would help all\n> of the integration authors, as well as make it clear to end-users\n> where we have integration available/under development, in case they\n> were not aware of it previously.\n\nSo you would like to see something like the following question in the\nupcoming Git User's Survey?\n\n xx. Which editors/IDEs/RADs do you use?\n (zero or more; multiple choice with 'other')\n - Emacs, Vim, Eclipse, KDevelop, Anjuta, TextMate, Notepad++,\n Visual Studio, other\n + what choices should be in the list of editors and IDE;\n or should perhaps this question be free-form?\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"85052","messageId":"488B1657.4090308@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807261254.53939.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Marek Zawirski","fromEmail":"marek.zawirski@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-26T12:19:35Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T12:19:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"marek.zawirski@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> On Sat, 26 July 2008, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n(...)\n>> Actually I'd like the editor integration to be broken out (if\n>> it isn't already) so we can see which editors (and thus which\n>> integrations) are popular among users. I think it would help all\n>> of the integration authors, as well as make it clear to end-users\n>> where we have integration available/under development, in case they\n>> were not aware of it previously.\n> \n> So you would like to see something like the following question in the\n> upcoming Git User's Survey?\n> \n> xx. Which editors/IDEs/RADs do you use?\n> (zero or more; multiple choice with 'other')\n> - Emacs, Vim, Eclipse, KDevelop, Anjuta, TextMate, Notepad++,\n> Visual Studio, other\n> + what choices should be in the list of editors and IDE;\n> or should perhaps this question be free-form?\n\nIf we stay with hard coded list of IDEs, I'd add NetBeans to this list.\n\nI have an impression that quite many folks are asking about NetBeans \nsupport for Git. Particularly, comparison between number of Eclipse and \nNetBeans users using Git is interesting matter for potential jgit usage.\n\n-- \nMarek Zawirski [zawir]\nmarek.zawirski@gmail.com\n"},{"id":"85077","messageId":"200807261734.35239.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807241152.29465.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-26T15:34:34Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T15:34:34Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, 24 July 2008, Jakub Narębski wrote:\n> On Thu, 24 July 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n>> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>> Dnia środa 23. lipca 2008 16:54, Robin Rosenberg napisał\n>>>> onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>>>>>>> \n>>>>>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n>>>>>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n>>>>>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>>>>>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n>>>>>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n>>>>>>>> Ruby,...?)\n>> [...]\n> \n> If we want to provide larger number of programming languages to\n> chose from (with \"other\" as fallback), we could take for example\n> top 10 from the TIOBE index, or similar sites:\n> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html (for July 2008)\n> http://lui.arbingersys.com/index.html (Language Usage Indicators, Jul 10, 2008)\n> \n> This would bring 'Visual Basic', and perhaps 'Assembly' and 'Lisp'\n> to the list of choices.\n\nPerhaps also consider GitHub's list of most popular languages\n http://github.com/blog/99-popular-languages\n(as mentioned in Petr 'Pasky' Baudis somewhere in git-scm.com thread)\nto take into account git popularity among web developers.\n\nThis would add 'ERB' (or is it just subset of 'Ruby' as eRuby\nimplementation?), and 'Common Lisp' (if 'Common Lisp', then\nprobably also 'Scheme'/'Guile'). \n\nThere is always free-form 'other'...\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"85083","messageId":"20080726155138.GB20695@jabba.hq.digizenstudio.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080725215707.GC23202@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jing Xue","fromEmail":"jingxue@digizenstudio.com","sentAt":"2008-07-26T15:51:38Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T15:51:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jingxue@digizenstudio.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 04:57:07PM -0500, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > What question about egit/jgit would you like to have in the survey?\n> \n> I'm not certain what else I would want to ask that is egit/jgit\n> specific.\n\nJust a thought - how about a question polling whether people would be\ninterested in build tool wrappers around jgit - ant tasks, maven\nplugins, etc.?\n\nCheers.\n-- \nJing Xue\n"},{"id":"85089","messageId":"m38wvovbh2.fsf@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080726155138.GB20695@jabba.hq.digizenstudio.com","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-26T16:47:42Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T16:47:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Jing Xue writes:\n\n> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 04:57:07PM -0500, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> > Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > >\n> > > What question about egit/jgit would you like to have in the survey?\n> > \n> > I'm not certain what else I would want to ask that is egit/jgit\n> > specific.\n> \n> Just a thought - how about a question polling whether people would be\n> interested in build tool wrappers around jgit - ant tasks, maven\n> plugins, etc.?\n\nTrue, there are a lot of tools written in Java, which have or could\nhave support for Git: Ant tasks, Maven plugins, Hudson rules\n(continuous integration), JIRA (bug/issue tracker). Some of them\nperhaps could use jgit, although if I understand correctly jgit is not\nyet full implementation of Git: it is enough for egit, for local clone\nof repository.\n\nI don't have any idea how to formulate such question. I think however\nthat \"hijacking\" Git User's Survey to ask a bunch of jgit/egit\nquestions would be a good idea. (By the way I have though about\nasking for feature requests for gitweb...)\n\nI wonder if similar tools like mentioned above, but for the Ruby camp,\nlike Capistrano, Merb, Gitosis, whatever use git directly, or do they\nuse Ruby interface (and which interface). I don't think there is\nimplementation of Git in Ruby... hmmmm....\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"85099","messageId":"20080726175121.GA15015@spearce.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"m38wvovbh2.fsf@localhost.localdomain","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2008-07-26T17:51:21Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T17:51:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Jing Xue writes:\n> > \n> > Just a thought - how about a question polling whether people would be\n> > interested in build tool wrappers around jgit - ant tasks, maven\n> > plugins, etc.?\n> \n> True, there are a lot of tools written in Java, which have or could\n> have support for Git: Ant tasks, Maven plugins, Hudson rules\n> (continuous integration), JIRA (bug/issue tracker). Some of them\n> perhaps could use jgit, although if I understand correctly jgit is not\n> yet full implementation of Git: it is enough for egit, for local clone\n> of repository.\n\n What Java based build tools would you like to see Git support in?\n (choose zero or more, multiple choice)\n Ant, Maven, Hudson, JIRA, other\n \n> I wonder if similar tools like mentioned above, but for the Ruby camp,\n> like Capistrano, Merb, Gitosis, whatever use git directly, or do they\n> use Ruby interface (and which interface). I don't think there is\n> implementation of Git in Ruby... hmmmm....\n\nThere is an implementation in Ruby, but I'm not sure what its\nstate is.\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"85101","messageId":"200807262017.04413.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080726175121.GA15015@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-26T18:17:03Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T18:17:03Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Sat, 26 July 2008, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> Jing Xue writes:\n>>> \n>>> Just a thought - how about a question polling whether people would be\n>>> interested in build tool wrappers around jgit - ant tasks, maven\n>>> plugins, etc.?\n>> \n>> True, there are a lot of tools written in Java, which have or could\n>> have support for Git: Ant tasks, Maven plugins, Hudson rules\n>> (continuous integration), JIRA (bug/issue tracker). Some of them\n>> perhaps could use jgit, although if I understand correctly jgit is not\n>> yet full implementation of Git: it is enough for egit, for local clone\n>> of repository.\n> \n> xx. What Java based build tools would you like to see Git support in?\n> (choose zero or more, multiple choice)\n> - Ant, Maven, Hudson, JIRA, other\n\nSome of those tools have more or less official support for Git, for\nexample there is Git plugin for Hudson (e.g. continuous integration)\n http://hudson.gotdns.com/wiki/display/HUDSON/Git+Plugin\nand Maven SCM git provider\n http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/SCM-182\n\n>> I wonder if similar tools like mentioned above, but for the Ruby camp,\n>> like Capistrano, Merb, Gitosis, whatever use git directly, or do they\n>> use Ruby interface (and which interface). I don't think there is\n>> implementation of Git in Ruby... hmmmm....\n> \n> There is an implementation in Ruby, but I'm not sure what its\n> state is.\n\nWhat it is? URL or name, please?\n\nIt looks like alternate Git implementation are cropping left and right:\njgit in Java, widgit/Git-R-Done and git# GSoC Mono project in C#,...\nbut not all of them maturing.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"85104","messageId":"d411cc4a0807261138k8cfde7eo411ddb8ef3ec4cfd@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080726175121.GA15015@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Scott Chacon","fromEmail":"schacon@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-26T18:38:59Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T18:38:59Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"schacon@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/9b13a8a078e1dcf8588c4eea9554445d51ebed6c41b51f56f4d96738130b05c6?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Shawn O. Pearce wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> Jing Xue writes:\n>> >\n>> > Just a thought - how about a question polling whether people would be\n>> > interested in build tool wrappers around jgit - ant tasks, maven\n>> > plugins, etc.?\n>>\n>> True, there are a lot of tools written in Java, which have or could\n>> have support for Git: Ant tasks, Maven plugins, Hudson rules\n>> (continuous integration), JIRA (bug/issue tracker). Some of them\n>> perhaps could use jgit, although if I understand correctly jgit is not\n>> yet full implementation of Git: it is enough for egit, for local clone\n>> of repository.\n>\n> What Java based build tools would you like to see Git support in?\n> (choose zero or more, multiple choice)\n> Ant, Maven, Hudson, JIRA, other\n>\n>> I wonder if similar tools like mentioned above, but for the Ruby camp,\n>> like Capistrano, Merb, Gitosis, whatever use git directly, or do they\n>> use Ruby interface (and which interface). I don't think there is\n>> implementation of Git in Ruby... hmmmm....\n>\n> There is an implementation in Ruby, but I'm not sure what its\n> state is.\n>\n\nThe most up-to-date project is 'Grit', a spinoff of the GitHub site.\nIt has a number of things implemented in pure-ruby and is under active\ndevelopment. It runs GitHub, Gitorious, GitNub (osx tool), etc.\n\nhttp://github.com/mojombo/grit/tree/master\n\nScott\n"},{"id":"85107","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0807262103410.26810@eeepc-johanness","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807262017.04413.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-07-26T19:06:42Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T19:06:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Sat, 26 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> It looks like alternate Git implementation are cropping left and right:\n> jgit in Java, widgit/Git-R-Done and git# GSoC Mono project in C#,...\n> but not all of them maturing.\n\nSeems as if git# is actively worked on, by a user called \"igfgt1\". See\n\n\thttp://code.google.com/p/mono-soc-2008/source/browse/\n\nHowever, it appears that the same problem as last year is happening: no \ncommunication with those that could help -- us. For example, the latest \nchange in git# adds a method to \"Blob\" that returns the content. Which is \nobviously read once, never to be freed.\n\nI know that it is unfair to rant here, but on the other hand: it is not my \nitch, and I have tons of other stuff to do.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"85120","messageId":"20080726215031.GB16219@spearce.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807261254.53939.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Shawn O. Pearce","fromEmail":"spearce@spearce.org","sentAt":"2008-07-26T21:50:31Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T21:50:31Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"spearce@spearce.org","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/34844?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> So you would like to see something like the following question in the\n> upcoming Git User's Survey?\n> \n> xx. Which editors/IDEs/RADs do you use?\n> (zero or more; multiple choice with 'other')\n> - Emacs, Vim, Eclipse, KDevelop, Anjuta, TextMate, Notepad++,\n> Visual Studio, other\n> + what choices should be in the list of editors and IDE;\n> or should perhaps this question be free-form?\n\nI think we should list explicitly any editor that we have Git\nintegration for, or which we know is popular and people have asked\nabout in the past, and leave an other for people to enter other\neditors.\n\nWe know about Emacs, Vim, Eclipse, TextMate all having some sort\nof Git integration. We know people have asked about NetBeans,\nKDevelop and Anjuta. After that yea, Notepad++ and Visual Studio\nare two commonly used tools that people may use.\n\nAnyone know of anything missing from this list?\n\n-- \nShawn.\n"},{"id":"85122","messageId":"FA3A0365-19D5-4D00-84C7-EFF1DB241892@yahoo.ca","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080726215031.GB16219@spearce.org","subject":"Re: Mailing lists, was Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jean-François Veillette","fromEmail":"jean_francois_veillette@yahoo.ca","sentAt":"2008-07-26T21:52:40Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-26T21:52:40Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jean_francois_veillette@yahoo.ca","avatar":null},"body":"\nLe 08-07-26 à 17:50, Shawn O. Pearce a écrit :\n\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> So you would like to see something like the following question in the\n>> upcoming Git User's Survey?\n>>\n>> xx. Which editors/IDEs/RADs do you use?\n>> (zero or more; multiple choice with 'other')\n>> - Emacs, Vim, Eclipse, KDevelop, Anjuta, TextMate, Notepad++,\n>> Visual Studio, other\n>> + what choices should be in the list of editors and IDE;\n>> or should perhaps this question be free-form?\n>\n> I think we should list explicitly any editor that we have Git\n> integration for, or which we know is popular and people have asked\n> about in the past, and leave an other for people to enter other\n> editors.\n>\n> We know about Emacs, Vim, Eclipse, TextMate all having some sort\n> of Git integration. We know people have asked about NetBeans,\n> KDevelop and Anjuta. After that yea, Notepad++ and Visual Studio\n> are two commonly used tools that people may use.\n>\n> Anyone know of anything missing from this list?\n\nXCode\n\n- jfv"},{"id":"85163","messageId":"fcaeb9bf0807270424j314c321cw18d40b9781ea5946@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807261734.35239.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy","fromEmail":"pclouds@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-27T11:24:49Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-27T11:24:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pclouds@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/720?v=4"},"body":"On 7/26/08, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> On Thu, 24 July 2008, Jakub Narębski wrote:\n>\n> > On Thu, 24 July 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n> >> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >>> Dnia środa 23. lipca 2008 16:54, Robin Rosenberg napisał\n> >>>> onsdagen den 23 juli 2008 15.18.40 skrev Johannes Schindelin:\n> >>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> >>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> >>>>>>>\n> >>>>>>>> 04. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> >>>>>>>> (The choices include programming languages used by git)\n> >>>>>>>> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> >>>>>>>> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> >>>>>>>> + (should we include other languages, like C++, Java, PHP,\n> >>>>>>>> Ruby,...?)\n> >> [...]\n> >\n>\n> > If we want to provide larger number of programming languages to\n> > chose from (with \"other\" as fallback), we could take for example\n> > top 10 from the TIOBE index, or similar sites:\n> > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html (for July 2008)\n> > http://lui.arbingersys.com/index.html (Language Usage Indicators, Jul 10, 2008)\n> >\n> > This would bring 'Visual Basic', and perhaps 'Assembly' and 'Lisp'\n> > to the list of choices.\n>\n>\n> Perhaps also consider GitHub's list of most popular languages\n> http://github.com/blog/99-popular-languages\n> (as mentioned in Petr 'Pasky' Baudis somewhere in git-scm.com thread)\n> to take into account git popularity among web developers.\n>\n> This would add 'ERB' (or is it just subset of 'Ruby' as eRuby\n> implementation?), and 'Common Lisp' (if 'Common Lisp', then\n> probably also 'Scheme'/'Guile').\n\nI have an impression that this 'erb' is a file extension for html file\nwith embedding ruby, used in ruby on rails. If so it's not worth\nadding. If you are going to add Scheme, please remove Guile or you\nhave to list other Scheme implementations too.\n\n> There is always free-form 'other'...\n>\n> --\n> Jakub Narebski\n> Poland\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n>\n\n\n-- \nDuy\n"},{"id":"85772","messageId":"200807311448.28493.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-07-31T12:48:27Z","receivedAt":"2008-07-31T12:48:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"I will be AFK for about a week, so I don't think I'd have Git User's \nSurvey 2008 ready for 1.6.0 (August 10).\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"87780","messageId":"200808200308.26308.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"[RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-20T01:08:25Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T01:08:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"This is second revision (version) of proposed questions \nfor Git User's Survey 2008.\n\n\nFirst, it was decided that it would be web based survey; I would use\nsurvs.com (new, in beta), unless free version expires or acquires\nunbearable restrictions (like no more than 10 questions, no more than\n100 replies some survey sites have for non-paid accounts), because it\nhas some nice features, and allows export of results to CSV format for\nfurther analysis... but I have not checked if the site that was used\nfor earlier, 2006 and 2007 surveys (http://www.survey.net.nz) doesn't\nhave those features now (it didn't have when 2007 survey was run).\n\nNote that new features like \"matrix\" questions and ability to have\n'other' selection for single choice and multiple choice questions\naffect a bit form of this survey.\n\n\nSecond, what questions should be put in the survey, and in the case of\nsingle choice and multiple choice questions what possible answers\nshould be? I'd rather avoid free-form questions, even if they are\nmore interesting, as they are PITA to analyze and summarize,\nespecially to create some kind of histogram from free-form replies\ndata (some of 2007 free-form responses are not fully summarized even\nnow). Below there are proposals for questions for this year survey.\nPlease comment on them.\n\nBy the way, should the survey be divided in pages, or simply use\nheaders to divide survey into sections?\n\n\nThird, where to send survey to / where to publish information about the \nsurvey? Last year the announcement was send to git mailing list, to\nLKML (Linux kernel mailing list), and mailing list for git projects \nfound on GitProjects page on GIT wiki. Now that the number of projects \nusing Git as version control system has grown, I don't think it would \nbe good idea to \"spam\" all those mailing list; and if we don't send \nnotice to all other projects I'm not sure if we should include LKML.\n\nLast year survey announcement was put on Git Homepage (thanks Pasky), \nand on front page of Git Wiki; info about survey was also put on two \ngit hosting sites: kernel.org and repo.or.cz. It would be nice if it \nwas possible to put announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 at front \npages of other Git hosting sites, like GitHub (one of most popular, I \nthink), Gitorious, Freedesktop.org. If you know some other popular Git \nhosting sites, and even better if you know who to contact about putting \nsurvey announcement, please write. Is there some channel that I have \nforgot about? Should info/announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 be \nsent also to one of on-line magazines like LinuxToday or LWN, or asked \nto put on some blog? I'll add it as journal entry for #git on Ohloh, \nand try to make it so it would appear in \"News\" section for Ohloh \nproject page for Git: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/git.\n\nSurvs.com has nice feature of \"channels\", which allow to count\nresponses sent via different means separately; I am using it to\npublish URL for 'test' channel - answers from this channel won't be\ncounted AT ALL!!!\n\n\nFourth, how long should the survey last? When sending announcement we \nshould say where notice about Git User's Survey 2008 should be taken \ndown. Last year the survey was meant to take three weeks, but was up \nlonger. I'm thinking about having it last a month, or a month and a\nhalf, starting from September 1.\n\n\nBelow there is second version of announcement email (I should probably\ncome up also with boilerplate announcement for web pages), and second\nversion of this year round of questions. Comments are prefixed by\n'+', and would not necessary be included in the survey text.\n\nQuestions which were reworked are included in square brackets '[...]',\nwhile old version of answers or comments are prefixed with '!'.\n\nBTW should this survey be divided into pages or not (if it will be\non Survs.com, as it is now)?\n\n----\nHi all,\n\nWe would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the Git\nversion control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\nusing Git, how and why.\n\nThe results will be published to the Git wiki and discussed on the git\nmailing list.\n\nWe'll close the survey in starting from today, .\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple\nquestionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your\nneeds, what you like of git, and of course what you don't like of it.\n\nThe survey can be found here:\n http://www.survs.com/survey?id=M3PIVU72&channel=9XYYGHJ77G\n\n(this is temporary channel URL; responses to this URL would\nbe, I guess, discarded).\n----\nAbout you\n\n xx. What country are you in?\n (free form; it would be nice to have pre-filled pull-down\n menu, i.e. select form. Survs.com doesn't support it, yet)\n xx. How old are you (in years)?\n (free form, integer)\n xx. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk, C++, C#, Java, PHP,\n Ruby, Emacs Lisp, Common Lisp or Scheme, Visual Basic,\n Delphi, Assembly, other (please specify), I am not programmer\n ! C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n + First version included only programming languages used\n by git, and some from contrib area\n\n\nGetting started with GIT\n\n xx. How did you hear about Git?\n (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n IRC, mailing list, told by friend, word of mouth (off-line),\n other Internet, must be used at job, other off-line, other(*)\n + the problem is with having not very long list (not too many\n choices), but spanning all possibilities.\n + is this question interesting/important to have in survey?\n xx. Did you find GIT easy to learn?\n - very easy/easy/reasonably/hard/very hard\n xx. What helped you most in learning to use it?\n (free form question)\n xx. What did you find hardest in learning Git?\n What did you find hardest in using Git?\n (free form question)\n xx. Which Git version(s) are you using?\n (zero or more, multiple choice:\n one can use different versions on different machines)\n - pre 1.3, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, master, next\n + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n + perhaps we should ask in addition to this question, or in place\n of this question (replacing it) what git version one uses; it\n should be multiple choice, and allow 'master', 'next', 'pu',\n 'dirty (with own modifications)' versions in addition.\n xx. How long do you use Git?\n - never/less than month/1-3 months/3-6 months/6-12 months/\n 1-2 year/more than 2 years/from the beginning\n ! never/few days/few weeks/month/few months/year/few years/\n from beginning/I wrote it(*)\n + (*) just kidding ;-)\n xx. Does git.git repository include code produced by you?\n - yes/no\n\n\nOther SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n\n xx. What other SCM did or do you use?\n ! (zero or more: multiple choice)\n (matrix with the following columns: never/used it/still use)\n - SCCS, RCS, CVS, Subversion, Arch or clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev, Perforce,\n BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe, MS Visual Studio\n Team System, PVCS, custom, other (please specify)\n xx. Why did you choose/use Git? (if you use Git)\n What do you like about using Git?\n (free form, not to be tabulated)\n xx. Why did you choose/use other SCMs? (if you use other SCMs)\n What do you like about using other SCMs?\n Note: please write name of SCMs you are talking about.\n (free form, not to be tabulated).\n xx. Do you miss features in git that you know from other SCMs?\n If yes, what features are these (and from which SCM)?\n (free form, not to be tabulated).\n + suggested by Stephan Beyer\n\n\nHow you use Git\n\n [xx. Do you use Git for work, unpaid projects, or both?\n (single choice)\n - work/unpaid projects/both]\n xx. I use Git for (check all that apply):\n - work projects, unpaid projects, proprietary code development,\n OSS development, private (unpublished) development, personal data,\n documents, website or web app, sharing data, backup, \n wiki/blog backend, frontend to other SCM (git-svn, git-p4),\n other (if interesting)\n + Answers above are not orthogonal, neither exclusive.\n More than one answer can apply even for single repository.\n xx. How do you obtain Git?\n - binary package/source package or source script(*)/\n source tarball/pull from main repository\n (*) this includes source based distributions like Gentoo\n + added new option: source package or source script\n + should this be multiple choice?\n xx. What operating system do you use Git on?\n (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one OS)\n - Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, MacOS X (Darwin),\n UnixWare, SCO SV, SunOS, Solaris, AIX, IRIX, HP-UX, Other Unix,\n MS Window/Cygwin, MS Windows/msysGit (MINGW), MS Windows/unknown,\n Other (please specify).\n ! Linux, *BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.), MS Windows/Cygwin,\n MS Windows/msysGit, MacOS X, other UNIX, other\n + I have added here all the operating systems explicitly\n specified in \"guessing configuration\" part of Makefile\n + You can use 'uname' to get the name of operating system on Unices.\n xx. What hardware platforms do you use GIT on?\n (one or more: multiple choice, as one can use more than one machine)\n - 32bit, 64bit, handheld/portable, other (please specify)\n + It is much simplified compared to previous version, and it is\n not a free-form question. Still not sure if even in such\n simplified form this question is to stay, or should it be removed.\n xx. What editor, IDE or RAD you use working with GIT?\n (zero/one or more: multiple choice with 'other')\n - Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ IDEA, Visual Studio, KDevelop, Anjuta,\n XCode, PIDA, Eric, Dreamweaver, Emacs, Vim, TextMate, Notepad++,\n other (please specify)\n + What choices should be in the list of editors and IDE;\n or should perhaps this question be free-form?\n xx. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - core-git, Cogito (deprecated), StGIT, Guilt, pg (deprecated),\n TopGit, Pyrite, Easy Git, IsiSetup, jgit, my own scripts,\n other (please specify)\n xx. Which git GUI (commit tool or history viewer, or both) do you use\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - CLI, gitk, git-gui, qgit, gitview, giggle, tig, instaweb,\n (h)gct, qct, KGit, git-cola / ugit, GitNub, Pyrite, git.el,\n other (please specify)\n xx. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), Gitorious,\n other (please specify)\n xx. Which git hosting site do you use for your projects?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - repo.or.cz, GitHub, Gitorious, kernel.org, freedesktop.org,\n Savannah, Assembla, Unfuddle, Alioth, Fedora Hosted, other\n + of course \"if other, which\"\n + should some other web hosting sites be included as well?\n xx. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle,\n git-svn, foreign SCM (not via git-svn),\n other (see also below)\n xx. If the way you publish your changes is not mentioned above, how\n do you publish your changes? Please explain.\n (free form, either input field or textarea)\n xx. How often do you use the following forms of git commands or extra\n git tools?\n (matrix form: never/rare/often)\n . git add -i / -p\n\t. git add -u\n . git am\n . git am -i\n\t. git apply\n . git archive\n . git bisect\n\t. git bisect run \n\t. git bisect replay \n\t. git annotate\n . git gui blame\n\t. git blame\n\t. git blame -L ,\n\t. git blame -S \n . git bundle\n\t. git cherry\n . git cherry-pick\n . git cherry-pick -n\n . git citool\n . git clean\n . git commit\n . git commit -a\n . git commit ...\n\t. git commit -i ...\n\t. git commit --amend\n\t. git count-objects\n\t. git cvsexportcommit\n\t. git cvsserver\n\t. git ... --dirstat\n . git fetch \n\t. git filter-branch\n\t. git format-patch\n\t. git fsck\n . git grep\n\t. git imap-send\n\t. git instaweb\n . git log --grep/--author/...\n\t. git log -S\n\t. git log --graph\n . git merge\n . git merge with strategy\n . git merge --squash\n\t. git mergetool\n . git pull\n\t. git pull \n\t. git pull \n . git push\n\t. git relink\n . git rebase\n . git rebase -i\n\t. git rebase --onto\n\t. git remote add \n\t. git remote show \n\t. git remote prune \n\t. git remote update\n\t. git request-pull\n . git reset --soft\n\t. git reset [--mixed]\n\t. git reset --hard\n\t. git revert\n\t. git send-email\n\t. git show-branch\n\t. git shortlog\n\t. git shortlog -s\n\t. git stash\n\t. git submodule\n\t. git svn\n\t. git tag\n\t. git tag -a/-s\n\t. git tag -v\n\t. git whatchanged\n . git gui\n\t. gitk\n\t. gitprompt\n + (*)rarely is to mean: a few times, or sometimes (from time to time)\n + the list does not include commands which you _have_ to use,\n like \"git add \", \"git init\"/\"git clone\" etc. \n + in what order should be those commands; currently they are in\n alphabetical order?\n xx. Which of the following features do you use?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion (crlf),\n gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n shallow clone, detaching HEAD, mergetool, interactive rebase,\n add --interactive or other partial commit helper, commit\n templates, bisect, working with dirty tree, integration with\n IDE/editor, other (not mentioned here)\n + should probably be sorted in some resemblance of order\n + are there any new features which should be listed here?\n xx. Which features do you find unique and useful ones, compared\n to other systems (other SCMs)?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - [same set as in above question, or almost the same set]\n xx. If you use some important Git features not mentioned above,\n what are those?\n (free form, textarea)\n \n\n\nWhat you think of Git\n\n xx. Overall, how happy are you with Git?\n (single choice)\n - unhappy/not so happy/happy/very happy/completely ecstatic\n xx. How does Git compare to other SCM tools you have used?\n (single choice)\n - worse/equal (or comparable)/better\n xx. What would you most like to see improved about Git?\n (features, bugs, plug-ins, documentation, ...)\n xx. What tools would you like to see Git support in?\n (free form)\n\n\nChanges in Git (since year ago, or since you started using it)\n\n xx. Did you participate in previous Git User's Surveys?\n (zero or more, multiple choice)\n - 2006, 2007\n xx. How do you compare current version with version from year ago?\n - current version is: better/worse/no changes/cannot say\n\n\nDocumentation\n\n xx. Do you use the Git wiki?\n - yes/no\n xx. Do you find Git wiki useful?\n - yes/no/somewhat\n xx. Do you contribute to Git wiki?\n - yes/no/only corrections or spam removal\n xx. Do you find Git's on-line help (homepage, documentation) useful?\n - yes/no/somewhat\n xx. Do you find help distributed with Git useful\n (manpages, manual, tutorial, HOWTO, release notes)?\n - yes/no/somewhat\n xx. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n (free form)\n xx. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n (free form)\n\n\nTranslating Git\n\n xx. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n xx. What do you need/want to have translated?\n (zero or more, multiple choice)\n - commands messages, manpages, manual & tutorial etc.,\n technical documentation, HOWTOs, git homepage, git wiki,\n git-gui/gitk, subcommands and long option names\n\n\nGetting help, staying in touch\n\n xx. Have you tried to get Git help from other people?\n - yes/no\n xx. What channel did you use to request help?\n (zero or more: multiple choice)\n - git mailing list, git users group, IRC, blog post, \n asking git guru/colleague, other\n + This is one question which doesn't need, I think, explanation\n of \"other\" choice\n xx. If yes, did you get these problems resolved quickly\n and to your liking?\n - yes/no\n xx. Would commercial (paid) support from a support vendor\n be of interest to you/your organization?\n - yes/no/not applicable\n xx. Do you think it is easy to find out how to do a specific task\n with git?\n - yes/no/not always\n xx. Do you read the mailing list?\n (multiple choice: zero or more; \"none\" is just in case)\n - none/git@vger.kernel.org/Git For Human Beings/msysGit\n xx. If yes, do you find it useful?\n - yes/no/somewhat (optional)\n [xx. Do you find traffic levels on Git mailing list OK.\n - yes/no? (optional)]\n xx. Do you find the mailing list traffic level to be:\n - too low/OK/just right/tolerable/intolerable/\n a bit high/absurdly high/I don't read it\n xx. Do you use the IRC channel (#git on irc.freenode.net)?\n - yes/no\n xx. If yes, do you find IRC channel useful?\n - yes/no/somewhat (optional)\n xx. Did you have problems getting GIT help on mailing list or\n on IRC channel? What were it? What could be improved?\n (free form)\n\n\nOpen forum\n\n xx. What other comments or suggestions do you have that are not\n covered by the questions above?\n (free form)\n xx. Should such a survey be repeated next year?\n - yes/no/no opinion\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"87800","messageId":"2f310957-42d7-4e69-abc7-29d3eb3994a8@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Abhijit Bhopatkar","fromEmail":"bainonline@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-20T07:31:21Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T07:31:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"bainonline@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":">    17. Which git GUI (commit tool or history viewer, or both) do you use\n>        (zero or more: multiple choice)\n>      - CLI, gitk, git-gui, qgit, gitview, giggle, tig, instaweb,\n>        (h)gct, qct, KGit, git-cola / ugit, GitNub, Pyrite, git.el, other\n\nI am author of kgit and is a dead project i don't think anyone uses it\nand should use it.\nI have amended the git wiki for the same, can you please amend the\nsurvey,\n\nIn other news i have replaced kgit with teamgit\nhttp://www.devslashzero.com/teamgit\nWhich should be ready soon for prime time, but is not worth to be in\nsurvey since its not officially released yet.\n\nThanks\nBAIN\n"},{"id":"87812","messageId":"81b0412b0808200434j64fb97c9l64cfba62f179d99a@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808200308.26308.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Alex Riesen","fromEmail":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-20T11:34:39Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T11:34:39Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/324101?v=4"},"body":"2008/8/20 Jakub Narebski :\n> About you\n>\n> xx. What country are you in?\n> (free form; it would be nice to have pre-filled pull-down\n> menu, i.e. select form. Survs.com doesn't support it, yet)\n> xx. How old are you (in years)?\n> (free form, integer)\n> xx. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n\n\"Which programming languages ARE you proficient with?\"\n\nor maybe simplier\n\n\"What programming languages do you use?\"\n\n> xx. How often do you use the following forms of git commands or extra\n> git tools?\n\nSome time back there was a script posted on this list which extracted\nthis statistics from users .bash_history. Maybe reference it here?\n\n> xx. Which features do you find unique and useful ones, compared\n> to other systems (other SCMs)?\n\nThe meanings of \"unique\" and \"useful\" are unrelated, maybe make this\ntwo separate questions?\n\n> xx. If you use some important Git features not mentioned above,\n> what are those?\n\n\"What, in your opinion important, Git feature it is not mentioned above?\"\n\n> xx. What would you most like to see improved about Git?\n\nyou can drop \"most\": if people think something should be improved,\nwe (most) likely want to know about it :)\n\n> xx. What tools would you like to see Git support in?\n\n\"What tools (IDE, RAD, editors) would you like to support Git?\"\n\n> xx. Did you have problems getting GIT help on mailing list or\n> on IRC channel? What were it? What could be improved?\n\nWhat they (the problems, plural) were?\n"},{"id":"87814","messageId":"20080820120458.GI10544@machine.or.cz","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"81b0412b0808200434j64fb97c9l64cfba62f179d99a@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2008-08-20T12:04:58Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T12:04:58Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:34:39PM +0200, Alex Riesen wrote:\n> 2008/8/20 Jakub Narebski :\n> > xx. What tools would you like to see Git support in?\n> \n> \"What tools (IDE, RAD, editors) would you like to support Git?\"\n\nIsn't this question more general, like covering also bugtrackers,\nautomated testing tools and whatnot?\n\n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\n"},{"id":"87820","messageId":"200808201550.42208.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080820120458.GI10544@machine.or.cz","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-20T13:50:40Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T13:50:40Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Dnia środa 20. sierpnia 2008 14:04, Petr Baudis napisał:\n> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:34:39PM +0200, Alex Riesen wrote:\n> > 2008/8/20 Jakub Narebski :\n> > > xx. What tools would you like to see Git support in?\n> > \n> > \"What tools (IDE, RAD, editors) would you like to support Git?\"\n> \n> Isn't this question more general, like covering also bugtrackers,\n> automated testing tools and whatnot?\n\nCurrently it is:\n xx. What tools (or kind of tools) would you like to see Git support in?\n (e.g. IDE, RAD, editors, continuous integration, software hosting,\n bugtracker, merge tool,...)\n (free form)\n\nBTW I think that it should be \"Git support in\", not \"to support Git\".\nBut I am not a native English speaker.\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"87838","messageId":"81b0412b0808201118j41e1f797kc580a97531bcbc84@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808201550.42208.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Alex Riesen","fromEmail":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-20T18:18:17Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T18:18:17Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"raa.lkml@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/324101?v=4"},"body":"2008/8/20 Jakub Narebski :\n> Dnia środa 20. sierpnia 2008 14:04, Petr Baudis napisał:\n>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:34:39PM +0200, Alex Riesen wrote:\n>> > 2008/8/20 Jakub Narebski :\n>> > > xx. What tools would you like to see Git support in?\n>> >\n>> > \"What tools (IDE, RAD, editors) would you like to support Git?\"\n>>\n>> Isn't this question more general, like covering also bugtrackers,\n>> automated testing tools and whatnot?\n>\n> Currently it is:\n> xx. What tools (or kind of tools) would you like to see Git support in?\n> (e.g. IDE, RAD, editors, continuous integration, software hosting,\n> bugtracker, merge tool,...)\n> (free form)\n>\n> BTW I think that it should be \"Git support in\", not \"to support Git\".\n\n\"to see Git support in them\" then?\n\n> But I am not a native English speaker.\n\nWell, who is here? :)\n"},{"id":"87862","messageId":"7v4p5fqw91.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808200308.26308.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-08-20T20:14:50Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T20:14:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski writes:\n\n> This is second revision (version) of proposed questions \n> for Git User's Survey 2008.\n\nVery nicely done.\n\n> Getting started with GIT\n>\n> xx. How did you hear about Git?\n> (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n> - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n> news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n> presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n> IRC, mailing list, told by friend, word of mouth (off-line),\n> other Internet, must be used at job, other off-line, other(*)\n> + the problem is with having not very long list (not too many\n> choices), but spanning all possibilities.\n> + is this question interesting/important to have in survey?\n\nI'd say this is more interesting than \"what programming language do\nyou speak\".\n\n> xx. Which Git version(s) are you using?\n> (zero or more, multiple choice:\n> one can use different versions on different machines)\n> - pre 1.3, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, master, next\n> + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n\nThis is a very good idea. \"What is hardest\" grouped by \"How proficient\nare you with git\".\n\n> Other SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n>\n> xx. What other SCM did or do you use?\n> ! (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> (matrix with the following columns: never/used it/still use)\n\n\"Plan to use\"?\n\n> - SCCS, RCS, CVS, Subversion, Arch or clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n> Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev, Perforce,\n> BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe, MS Visual Studio\n> Team System, PVCS, custom, other (please specify)\n\nWith this number of \"other systems\", it is easier to pick if they are\nsorted alphabetically.\n\n> How you use Git\n>\n> xx. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), Gitorious,\n> other (please specify)\n\nYou have reworded this question on the site but it has typo \"Unless of\ncours you are hosting...\" (s/cours y/course y/).\n\n> xx. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle,\n> git-svn, foreign SCM (not via git-svn),\n> other (see also below)\n\ncvsexportcommit?\n\n> xx. If the way you publish your changes is not mentioned above, how\n> do you publish your changes? Please explain.\n> (free form, either input field or textarea)\n> xx. How often do you use the following forms of git commands or extra\n> git tools?\n> (matrix form: never/rare/often)\n\n\"never, rarely, *sometimes*, often\"?\n\n> . git add -i / -p\n> \t. git add -u\n> . git am\n> . git am -i\n> \t. git apply\n\n\"apply --whitespace=fix\"?\n\n> \t. git cvsserver\n\n\"git daemon\" and \"git daemon (pushing enabled)\" as separate items.\n\n> \t. git ... --dirstat\n\n\"diff --check\"?\n\n> . git pull\n\n\"pull --rebase\"?\n\n> \t. git pull \n> \t. git pull \n> . git push\n\nSeparate \"(empty) vs vs \" entries for \"git push\"?\nAlso for \"git fetch\"?\n\n> \t. git stash\n\n\"git stash pop\"?\n\"git stash save --keep-index\"?\n\n> + in what order should be those commands; currently they are in\n> alphabetical order?\n\nThat is the most sensible.\n\n> xx. Which of the following features do you use?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion (crlf),\n> gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n\nIf you single out \"eol conversion\", perhaps separate \"whitespace\nattributes\" out of generic \"gitattributes\"?\n\ns/separate worktree/& (git-new-workdir)/;\n\n> Documentation\n>\n> xx. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n> (free form)\n> xx. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n> (free form)\n\n\"What can/will you do to help improve them?\"?\n\n> Translating Git\n>\n> xx. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n> xx. What do you need/want to have translated?\n> (zero or more, multiple choice)\n> - commands messages, manpages, manual & tutorial etc.,\n> technical documentation, HOWTOs, git homepage, git wiki,\n> git-gui/gitk, subcommands and long option names\n\nLOL on the last one ;-) Please keep it --- we may find amusing results.\n\n> Getting help, staying in touch\n>\n> xx. Have you tried to get Git help from other people?\n> - yes/no\n> xx. What channel did you use to request help?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - git mailing list, git users group, IRC, blog post, \n> asking git guru/colleague, other\n\nYou have \"IRC (#git)\". Perhaps a separate item \"IRC (#github)\"?\n\n> Open forum\n>\n> xx. What other comments or suggestions do you have that are not\n> covered by the questions above?\n> (free form)\n> xx. Should such a survey be repeated next year?\n> - yes/no/no opinion\n\n\"Such a\", meaning \"This\"?\n"},{"id":"87881","messageId":"20080820211852.GA27226@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808200308.26308.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-08-20T21:18:52Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T21:18:52Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nJakub Narebski wrote:\n> This is second revision (version) of proposed questions \n> for Git User's Survey 2008.\n\nGreat!\n\n> By the way, should the survey be divided in pages, or simply use\n> headers to divide survey into sections?\n\nDivided pages have a psychological impact, they don't look much and you\ncan say \"Almost there!\" on each page.\n\nBut headers and one-page surveys have a big advantage for users that pay\nfor Internet access per time unit: they can go offline, answer the\nquestions, and go online again to submit the survey.\n\nSo I've scrolled across your test survey on survs.com and I think it\nshould be kept on one page. Looks nice and manageable.\n\n> Third, where to send survey to / where to publish information about the \n> survey?\n\nThis question leads me to a question that could be put into the survey:\n\n\tWhere have you read about this survey? (optional)\n\t[Free form]\n\n> Fourth, how long should the survey last? When sending announcement we \n> should say where notice about Git User's Survey 2008 should be taken \n> down. Last year the survey was meant to take three weeks, but was up \n> longer. I'm thinking about having it last a month, or a month and a\n> half, starting from September 1.\n\nAnd lasting until 2008-10-10? No, I do not really care.\n\n\nSo, some comments on the questions now:\n\n> About you\n> \n> xx. What country are you in?\n\n\"What country do you live in?\" perhaps?\n\n> Getting started with GIT\n> \n> xx. How did you hear about Git?\n\nThere is a typo on survs.com (hear_d_).\nShould this by the way be multiple choice?\nI have heard about Git several times before I tried it.\n\n\n\nI will only quote from survs.com now:\n\n> told by friend (word of mouth)\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ? :) I think this should be removed\n\n> What other SCM did or do you use?\n>[..]\n> custom ( ) ( ) ( )\n\ncustom?\n\n> 20. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n> [ ] core-git\n\nUh, this is ambiguous. Is this our git or some script on top of git?\nIn both cases, this should be clarified.\n\n> 22. Which git web interface do you use for your projects/have installed?\n> (Web interfaces used by git hosting sites do not count[*])\n[...]\n> (*) Unless of cours you are hosting some git hosting site\n ^^^^^^^^ ^\n\t typo, but I'd rather do s/of cours // and s/$/./ :-)\n\n> 26. How often do you use the following forms of git commands\n> or extra git tools?\n>\n>\t\tNever | Rare | Often\n | Not yet, but sounds cool ;-)\n\nNo no :-)\n\nBut I wonder if we could split the \"Never\" case into several cases with\nreasons like:\n - Do not know.\n - Not yet needed.\n - Other (did not understand; tried but did not work; ...)\n\nBut this will perhaps bloat the question even more, so we should keep\n\"Never\", though I think the reasons could be interesting.\nCould some \"Comments\" field for question 26 help?\n\n\nSome other comment: I dislike that there is *one* \"Reset\" button for\nsuch matrix questions. But I guess you cannot change that?\n\n> 28. Which of the following features do or did you use?\n\nI think many of the possible replies have been used in several other\nquestions before, e.g. in \n - 21. (gitk, git gui), \n - 24. (git bundle),\n - 26/27. (git gui, gitk, git stash)\n - ...\n\nBut this question still seems to makes sense for:\n [ ] eol conversion (crlf)\n [ ] gitattributes\n [ ] reflog (ref@{23})\n [ ] shallow clone\n [ ] detaching HEAD <- I think several people could have used that without knowing\n [ ] commit templates\n [ ] integration with IDE/editor\n [ ] non-default hooks\n\nAnd btw:\n> [ ] working with dirty tree <- Eh? Is this a feature?\n\n\nBig thanks for your efforts,\n Stephan\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"87888","messageId":"20080820212628.GB27226@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080820211852.GA27226@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-08-20T21:26:28Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-20T21:26:28Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\n> I will only quote from survs.com now:\n\nI have btw submitted on survs.com and it didn't say something like\n\"Thank you blablalba We have received your survey. / Your survey was\nsaved.\" or something like that.\nIt just put me to their \"COMING SOON\" front page.\nConfusing behavior.\n\nIs there some way to change that without writing an e-mail to survs.com\nadmins? ;-)\n\nRegards,\n Stephan\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"87917","messageId":"200808210330.44908.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7v4p5fqw91.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-21T01:30:44Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-21T01:30:44Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski writes:\n> \n> > This is second revision (version) of proposed questions \n> > for Git User's Survey 2008.\n> \n> Very nicely done.\n\nThanks\n\n> > Getting started with GIT\n> >\n> > xx. How did you hear about Git?\n> > (single choice?, in 2007 it was free-form)\n> > - Linux kernel news (LKML, LWN, KernelTrap, KernelTraffic,...),\n> > news site or magazine, blog entry, some project uses it,\n> > presentation or seminar (real life, not on-line), SCM research,\n> > IRC, mailing list, told by friend, word of mouth (off-line),\n> > other Internet, must be used at job, other off-line, other(*)\n> > + the problem is with having not very long list (not too many\n> > choices), but spanning all possibilities.\n> > + is this question interesting/important to have in survey?\n> \n> I'd say this is more interesting than \"what programming language do\n> you speak\".\n\nPerhaps.\n\nI've had some trouble with coming with a list of answers, because\nI wanted to have as few free-form questions as possible.\n\n> > xx. Which Git version(s) are you using?\n> > (zero or more, multiple choice:\n> > one can use different versions on different machines)\n> > - pre 1.3, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, master, next\n> > + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n> \n> This is a very good idea. \"What is hardest\" grouped by \"How proficient\n> are you with git\".\n\nErrr... I didn't add \"How proficient are you with git?\" question to\nGit User's Survey 2008, but I think I would.\n\n> > Other SCMs (shortened compared with 2007 survey)\n> >\n> > xx. What other SCM did or do you use?\n> > ! (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > (matrix with the following columns: never/used it/still use)\n> \n> \"Plan to use\"?\n\nHmmm...\n\n> > - SCCS, RCS, CVS, Subversion, Arch or clone (ArX, tla, ...),\n> > Bazaar-NG, Darcs, Mercurial, Monotone, SVK, AccuRev, Perforce,\n> > BitKeeper, ClearCase, MS Visual Source Safe, MS Visual Studio\n> > Team System, PVCS, custom, other (please specify)\n> \n> With this number of \"other systems\", it is easier to pick if they are\n> sorted alphabetically.\n\nThere is some order to this... and as there is, as far as I can see,\neasy way to reorder _answers_ in a question on Survs (as opposed to\nreordering questions), I think I would keep it in current (dis)order.\n\n> > How you use Git\n> >\n> > xx. Which (main) git web interface do you use for your projects?\n\nIt is currently on Survs\n\n xx. Which git web interface do you use for your projects/have installed?\n (Web interfaces used by git hosting sites do not count)\n\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - gitweb, cgit, wit (Ruby), git-php, viewgit (PHP), Gitorious,\n> > other (please specify)\n> \n> You have reworded this question on the site but it has typo \"Unless of\n> cours you are hosting...\" (s/cours y/course y/).\n\nThanks, corrected.\n\n> > xx. How do you publish/propagate your changes?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - push, pull request, format-patch + email, bundle,\n> > git-svn, foreign SCM (not via git-svn),\n> > other (see also below)\n> \n> cvsexportcommit?\n\nThis I think fits in \"foreign SCM\"; well, git-svn is also \"foreign SCM\",\nbut as it seems most popular I kept it separate.\n\n> > xx. If the way you publish your changes is not mentioned above, how\n> > do you publish your changes? Please explain.\n> > (free form, either input field or textarea)\n> > xx. How often do you use the following forms of git commands or extra\n> > git tools?\n> > (matrix form: never/rare/often)\n> \n> \"never, rarely, *sometimes*, often\"?\n\nMy idea was to have minimal number of possible choices, to make it\neasier on the responder to select appropriate answer. 'Never' is\nI think obvious, 'often' was to meant that it is incorporated in one's\nworkflow, and 'rare' is in between. Nevertheless I guess that having\nfour columns doesn't make it that much harder.\n\nChanged.\n\n> > . git add -i / -p\n> > \t . git add -u\n> > . git am\n> > . git am -i\n> > \t . git apply\n> \n> \"apply --whitespace=fix\"?\n\nDone.\n\n> > \t . git cvsserver\n> \n> \"git daemon\" and \"git daemon (pushing enabled)\" as separate items.\n\nDone.\n\n> > \t. git ... --dirstat\n> \n> \"diff --check\"?\n\nHmmm... does anybody have it as part of his/her workflow? What I mean\nis to ask if there is anybody for whom the answer would be 'often'.\n\nCurrently not added, but it can be.\n\n> > . git pull\n> \n> \"pull --rebase\"?\n\nGood catch. Added.\n\n> > \t. git pull \n> > \t. git pull \n> > . git push\n> \n> Separate \"(empty) vs vs \" entries for \"git push\"?\n> Also for \"git fetch\"?\n\nI'm not sure if distinguish between \"git pull\" and \"git pull \",\nand I'd rather limit number of possible responses. Note that\n\"git pull \" works *differently*, as it doesn't use\nremote-tracking branch.\n\n> > \t. git stash\n> \n> \"git stash pop\"?\n> \"git stash save --keep-index\"?\n\nAdded the second one. Good catch, thanks.\n \n> > + in what order should be those commands; currently they are in\n> > alphabetical order?\n> \n> That is the most sensible.\n\nI was thinking about dividing them line on git(1) manpage; this would\nbe useful in dealing with 50-replies limit on Survs (it would be nice\nto have it explicitly mentioned somewhere), which made it a bit harder\nto add new suggestions.\n\n> > xx. Which of the following features do you use?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - git-gui or other commit tool, gitk or other history viewer, patch\n> > management interface (e.g. StGIT), bundle, eol conversion (crlf),\n> > gitattributes, submodules, separate worktree, reflog, stash,\n> \n> If you single out \"eol conversion\", perhaps separate \"whitespace\n> attributes\" out of generic \"gitattributes\"?\n\neol conversion is not only attributes, but also two config variables\n(core.autocrlf and core.safecrlf).\n \n> s/separate worktree/& (git-new-workdir)/;\n\nOr core.worktree.\n\n> > Documentation\n> >\n> > xx. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n> > (free form)\n> > xx. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n> > (free form)\n> \n> \"What can/will you do to help improve them?\"?\n\nGood idea. I have added this, separately for each question...\n\n...but now I'm not sure if not remove it.\n\n> > Translating Git\n> >\n> > xx. What is your preferred non-programming language?\n> > (or) What is the language you want computer communicate with you?\n> > xx. What do you need/want to have translated?\n> > (zero or more, multiple choice)\n> > - commands messages, manpages, manual & tutorial etc.,\n> > technical documentation, HOWTOs, git homepage, git wiki,\n> > git-gui/gitk, subcommands and long option names\n> \n> LOL on the last one ;-) Please keep it --- we may find amusing results.\n\nYeah, that was me making with the funny. \"git Eintragen\", anyone?\n\n> > Getting help, staying in touch\n> >\n> > xx. Have you tried to get Git help from other people?\n> > - yes/no\n> > xx. What channel did you use to request help?\n> > (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> > - git mailing list, git users group, IRC, blog post, \n> > asking git guru/colleague, other\n> \n> You have \"IRC (#git)\". Perhaps a separate item \"IRC (#github)\"?\n\nGood catch. If we are separating git mailing list and user's group\n(Google Group) it would be nice to distinguish IRC channels.\n\nAdded.\n\n> > Open forum\n> >\n> > xx. What other comments or suggestions do you have that are not\n> > covered by the questions above?\n> > (free form)\n> > xx. Should such a survey be repeated next year?\n> > - yes/no/no opinion\n> \n> \"Such a\", meaning \"This\"?\n\nYes. Now it reads:\n\n 58. Should Git User's Survey be repeated next year?\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"87928","messageId":"7vljyrkqq6.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808210330.44908.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-08-21T03:10:41Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-21T03:10:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Jakub Narebski writes:\n\n>> > xx. Which Git version(s) are you using?\n>> > (zero or more, multiple choice:\n>> > one can use different versions on different machines)\n>> > - pre 1.3, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, master, next\n>> > + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n>> \n>> This is a very good idea. \"What is hardest\" grouped by \"How proficient\n>> are you with git\".\n>\n> Errr... I didn't add \"How proficient are you with git?\" question to\n> Git User's Survey 2008, but I think I would.\n\nI meant that \"how long have you been using\" already has a strong correlation\nto the proficiency (iow I did not mean to suggest adding a new question).\n\n>> s/separate worktree/& (git-new-workdir)/;\n>\n> Or core.worktree.\n\nAs I personally do not think there is any sane usecase that *must* use\ncore.worktree and/or GIT_WORK_TREE, I took \"separate worktree\" as \"having\ntwo or more worktree on the same repository via new-workdir mechanism\",\nbut you meant core.worktree. It shows the question is ill-stated that\nthere are confusion even between us.\n\n>> > Documentation\n>> >\n>> > xx. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n>> > (free form)\n>> > xx. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n>> > (free form)\n>> \n>> \"What can/will you do to help improve them?\"?\n>\n> Good idea. I have added this, separately for each question...\n\nWouldn't that be an overkill?\n"},{"id":"87936","messageId":"8f282e3b0808202022w68fa2ad6s6e07c1d77d5ea139@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808200308.26308.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Mike Gant","fromEmail":"mwgant@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-21T03:22:29Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-21T03:22:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mwgant@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> This is second revision (version) of proposed questions\n> for Git User's Survey 2008.\n>\n>\n[snip]\n\n> xx. Which programming languages you are proficient with?\n> (zero or more: multiple choice)\n> - C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk, C++, C#, Java, PHP,\n> Ruby, Emacs Lisp, Common Lisp or Scheme, Visual Basic,\n> Delphi, Assembly, other (please specify), I am not programmer\n> ! C, shell, Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk\n> + First version included only programming languages used\n> by git, and some from contrib area\n\nPlease include an \"others\" selection that will except a comma\nlist of languages. I'm an FPGA designer and use Verilog and\nVHDL but I know they wouldn't be a common choice.\n\nMike\n"},{"id":"87967","messageId":"200808211311.24600.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080820211852.GA27226@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-21T11:11:23Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-21T11:11:23Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> \n> > By the way, should the survey be divided in pages, or simply use\n> > headers to divide survey into sections?\n> \n> Divided pages have a psychological impact, they don't look much and you\n> can say \"Almost there!\" on each page.\n> \n> But headers and one-page surveys have a big advantage for users that pay\n> for Internet access per time unit: they can go offline, answer the\n> questions, and go online again to submit the survey.\n> \n> So I've scrolled across your test survey on survs.com and I think it\n> should be kept on one page. Looks nice and manageable.\n\nI also prefer single page surveys; it would be better if this survey\nwas shorter (by the way, how long did you took to complete test survey?),\nbut there are so many interesting questions...\n \n> > Third, where to send survey to / where to publish information about the \n> > survey?\n> \n> This question leads me to a question that could be put into the survey:\n> \n> \tWhere have you read about this survey? (optional)\n> \t[Free form]\n\nBut where to add it? Additionally I'd rather limit free-form questions\nto absolute minimum.\n\nThis is the question I was lacking, so I'll think about adding it to\nthe survey.\n\n> So, some comments on the questions now:\n> \n> > About you\n> > \n> > xx. What country are you in?\n> \n> \"What country do you live in?\" perhaps?\n\nThis is better phrasing. Changed.\n \n> > Getting started with GIT\n> > \n> > xx. How did you hear about Git?\n> \n> There is a typo on survs.com (hear_d_).\n> Should this by the way be multiple choice?\n> I have heard about Git several times before I tried it.\n \nGood idea, I think, and doesn't lead to more work when analysing.\nAnd it would perhaps make it easier to choose appropriate answer.\n\nChanged. \n\n> I will only quote from survs.com now:\n> \n> > told by friend (word of mouth)\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ? :) I think this should be removed\n\nO.K.\n\n> > What other SCM did or do you use?\n> >[..]\n> > custom ( ) ( ) ( )\n> \n> custom?\n\nI mean here custom, not published (or no longer existing) SCM; something\nthat would be hard to write about.\n\nI agree that it is not the best phrasing.\n\n> > 20. Which porcelains / interfaces / implementations do you use?\n> > [ ] core-git\n> \n> Uh, this is ambiguous. Is this our git or some script on top of git?\n> In both cases, this should be clarified.\n\nThere is \"my own scripts\" at the bottom; I mean here using no additional\nporcelain, no interface on top of git command line.\n\nBut it is here for completeness only; however if you have some good\nexplanation for \"core-git\" option I can put it below this question.\n\n> > 22. Which git web interface do you use for your projects/have installed?\n> > (Web interfaces used by git hosting sites do not count[*])\n> [...]\n> > (*) Unless of cours you are hosting some git hosting site\n> ^^^^^^^^ ^\n> \t typo, but I'd rather do s/of cours // and s/$/./ :-)\n\nThanks. Done.\n\n> > 26. How often do you use the following forms of git commands\n> > or extra git tools?\n> >\n> >\t\tNever | Rare | Often\n> | Not yet, but sounds cool ;-)\n> \n> No no :-)\n> \n> But I wonder if we could split the \"Never\" case into several cases with\n> reasons like:\n> - Do not know.\n> - Not yet needed.\n> - Other (did not understand; tried but did not work; ...)\n> \n> But this will perhaps bloat the question even more, so we should keep\n> \"Never\", though I think the reasons could be interesting.\n> Could some \"Comments\" field for question 26 help?\n\nNow it is 'never/rarely/sometimes/often'. I think there are enough\nfree form questions that one can put his/her own comments about git\ncommands in this survey...\n\n> Some other comment: I dislike that there is *one* \"Reset\" button for\n> such matrix questions. But I guess you cannot change that?\n\nYes, this is canned web survey site. I can only send feedback,\nbut I guess so can you (unless this requires subscription/invite...).\n\n> > 28. Which of the following features do or did you use?\n> \n> I think many of the possible replies have been used in several other\n> questions before, e.g. in \n> - 21. (gitk, git gui), \n> - 24. (git bundle),\n> - 26/27. (git gui, gitk, git stash)\n> - ...\n> \n> But this question still seems to makes sense for:\n> [ ] eol conversion (crlf)\n> [ ] gitattributes\n> [ ] reflog (ref@{23})\n> [ ] shallow clone\n> [ ] detaching HEAD <- I think several people could have used that without knowing\n> [ ] commit templates\n> [ ] integration with IDE/editor\n> [ ] non-default hooks\n> \n> And btw:\n> > [ ] working with dirty tree <- Eh? Is this a feature?\n\nThis is distinguishing feature. What I mean here that you can use\n\"git add\" and \"git commit\" (not \"git commit -a\") and have some\nuncommitted changes, like for example change of version in Makefile.\n\n> Big thanks for your efforts,\n> Stephan\n\nYou are welcome.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"87968","messageId":"200808211319.43847.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"7vljyrkqq6.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-21T11:19:43Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-21T11:19:43Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, Junio C Hamano wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski writes:\n> \n>>>> xx. Which Git version(s) are you using?\n>>>> (zero or more, multiple choice:\n>>>> one can use different versions on different machines)\n>>>> - pre 1.3, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, master, next\n>>>> + might be important when checking \"what did you find hardest\" etc.\n>>> \n>>> This is a very good idea. \"What is hardest\" grouped by \"How proficient\n>>> are you with git\".\n>>\n>> Errr... I didn't add \"How proficient are you with git?\" question to\n>> Git User's Survey 2008, but I think I would.\n> \n> I meant that \"how long have you been using\" already has a strong correlation\n> to the proficiency (iow I did not mean to suggest adding a new question).\n\nWell, it is here...\n\n>>> s/separate worktree/& (git-new-workdir)/;\n>>\n>> Or core.worktree.\n> \n> As I personally do not think there is any sane usecase that *must* use\n> core.worktree and/or GIT_WORK_TREE, I took \"separate worktree\" as \"having\n> two or more worktree on the same repository via new-workdir mechanism\",\n> but you meant core.worktree. It shows the question is ill-stated that\n> there are confusion even between us.\n\nActually I meant here ability to work with worktree which doesn't have\nrepository embedded into it, in '.git' directory in top directory of\nthe worktree.\n\nThe ability to work with multiple worktrees requires this, but separate\nworktree is slightly broader feature. I have added however new\n\"multiple worktrees (git-new-worktree)\" option (answer).\n\nBut this reminded me that I forgot to add 'alternates' to the lists...\n\n>>>> Documentation\n>>>>\n>>>> xx. What could be improved on the Git homepage?\n>>>> (free form)\n>>>> xx. What could be improved in Git documentation?\n>>>> (free form)\n>>> \n>>> \"What can/will you do to help improve them?\"?\n>>\n>> Good idea. I have added this, separately for each question...\n> \n> Wouldn't that be an overkill?\n\nThis is now slightly reworked at Survs.com.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"88044","messageId":"20080821212620.GA9718@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808211311.24600.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-08-21T21:26:20Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-21T21:26:20Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nJakub Narebski wrote:\n> > So I've scrolled across your test survey on survs.com and I think it\n> > should be kept on one page. Looks nice and manageable.\n> \n> I also prefer single page surveys; it would be better if this survey\n> was shorter\n[...]\n> but there are so many interesting questions...\n\nYes, there are, but I think the length is ok and all questions are\noptional (should this be mentioned somewhere?), right?\nSo there should be no problem.\n\n> (by the way, how long did you took to complete test survey?),\n\nI filled in some stuff here and there and submitted, but I didn't\nactually complete the survey.\nBut I'd say it's manageable within 10 minutes.\n\n> > This question leads me to a question that could be put into the survey:\n> > \n> > \tWhere have you read about this survey? (optional)\n> > \t[Free form]\n> \n> But where to add it? Additionally I'd rather limit free-form questions\n> to absolute minimum.\n\nIf you want to add it nonetheless, then it could be question 60.\n\n> > > What other SCM did or do you use?\n> > >[..]\n> > > custom ( ) ( ) ( )\n> > \n> > custom?\n> \n> I mean here custom, not published (or no longer existing) SCM; something\n> that would be hard to write about.\n\nThis means the difference to \"other\" is that it is something somebody\nhas written for herself (or a company product only used in that\ncompany) and \"other\" is some less popular but public SCM?\n\nI see you've changed it to \"custom (non published)\". There is a typo:\ns/non /non-/ ;)\n\n\nBtw I wonder if people that are very new to git (perhaps started using\nit in 1.6.0) will not know the \"SCM\" abbreviation. But the possible\nchoices should make it clear. (And if not, \"Never\" to everything will be\nthe right choice.)\n\n> > Uh, this is ambiguous. Is this our git or some script on top of git?\n> > In both cases, this should be clarified.\n> \n> There is \"my own scripts\" at the bottom; I mean here using no additional\n> porcelain, no interface on top of git command line.\n\nSo just pure, naked git? The real git[tm]^H^H^H^H? ;-)\nOk, if I had not asked, I wouldn't have checked this option.\n\n> But it is here for completeness only; however if you have some good\n> explanation for \"core-git\" option I can put it below this question.\n\nI think it should be rephrased by \"git\" or \"git (pure)\" or \"git (core)\".\nBut \"core-git\" really looks like another tool to me.\n\n> > > (*) Unless of cours you are hosting some git hosting site\n> > ^^^^^^^^ ^\n> > \t typo, but I'd rather do s/of cours // and s/$/./ :-)\n> \n> Thanks. Done.\n\nNow it is:\n> (*) Unless of course you are hosting some git hosting site\n ^ ^ ^\nI like punctuation:\n (*) Unless, of course, you are hosting some git hosting site.\n\n*nitpick* :-)\n\n> > > 28. Which of the following features do or did you use?\n> > \n> > I think many of the possible replies have been used in several other\n> > questions before, e.g. in \n> > - 21. (gitk, git gui), \n> > - 24. (git bundle),\n> > - 26/27. (git gui, gitk, git stash)\n> > - ...\n> > \n> > But this question still seems to makes sense for:\n> > [ ] eol conversion (crlf)\n> > [ ] gitattributes\n> > [ ] reflog (ref@{23})\n> > [ ] shallow clone\n> > [ ] detaching HEAD <- I think several people could have used that without knowing\n> > [ ] commit templates\n> > [ ] integration with IDE/editor\n> > [ ] non-default hooks\n\nNo comment here? ;-)\n\nWhen replying to this question I really felt like having answered all\nthat before.\n\n> > And btw:\n> > > [ ] working with dirty tree <- Eh? Is this a feature?\n> \n> This is distinguishing feature. What I mean here that you can use\n> \"git add\" and \"git commit\" (not \"git commit -a\")\n\nSounds like \"Taking advantage of using the index\".\n(Yesterday/today/tomorrow I am using SVN in university and I wished so\nmuch that I had some git or at least git-svn[1] just because of the\n*index*.)\n\nOT Footnote [1]:\n I tried to install git (and git-svn) into $HOME/root ($HOME/root/bin is\n in PATH), but git-svn needs Perl bindings to SVN and they're pain to\n install into $HOME/root from source, because it is in the subversion\n source, and that needs a lot of Apache stuff and other things.\n So does anybody own a quick guide how to get that working without having\n to compile subversion from source (and without having root access, of\n course)? ... (Some version of subversion is installed, but not the \n perl modules. Just copying the .pm files did not seem to work.)\n\n> and have some\n> uncommitted changes, like for example change of version in Makefile.\n\nOk, this is \"working with dirty tree\", but I nonetheless wonder if this\nis really a feature.\n\n\nAnother general comment: Multiple choice question have the disadvantage\nthat we cannot distinguish \"None\" and skipped questions.\nSo if this is an issue, I wonder if adding a \"None of the above\" choice\ncould help. But perhaps this is no issue and can be ignored.\n\nRegards,\n Stephan\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"88065","messageId":"200808220206.59694.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080821212620.GA9718@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-22T00:06:56Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-22T00:06:56Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Stephan Beyer wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\n> > > This question leads me to a question that could be put into the survey:\n> > > \n> > > \tWhere have you read about this survey? (optional)\n> > > \t[Free form]\n> > \n> > But where to add it? Additionally I'd rather limit free-form questions\n> > to absolute minimum.\n> \n> If you want to add it nonetheless, then it could be question 60.\n\nI'll added it. It would be useful if there would be survey in\nthe following years.\n\n> > > > What other SCM did or do you use?\n> > > >[..]\n> > > > custom ( ) ( ) ( )\n> > > \n> > > custom?\n> > \n> > I mean here custom, not published (or no longer existing) SCM; something\n> > that would be hard to write about.\n> \n> This means the difference to \"other\" is that it is something somebody\n> has written for herself (or a company product only used in that\n> company) and \"other\" is some less popular but public SCM?\n\nYes.\n\n> I see you've changed it to \"custom (non published)\". There is a typo:\n> s/non /non-/ ;)\n\nThanks, corrected and added explanation below the question.\n \n[...]\n> > But it is here for completeness only; however if you have some good\n> > explanation for \"core-git\" option I can put it below this question.\n> \n> I think it should be rephrased by \"git\" or \"git (pure)\" or \"git (core)\".\n> But \"core-git\" really looks like another tool to me.\n\nDone.\n\n> > > > (*) Unless of cours you are hosting some git hosting site\n> > > ^^^^^^^^ ^\n> > > \t typo, but I'd rather do s/of cours // and s/$/./ :-)\n> > \n> > Thanks. Done.\n> \n> Now it is:\n> > (*) Unless of course you are hosting some git hosting site\n> ^ ^ ^\n> I like punctuation:\n> (*) Unless, of course, you are hosting some git hosting site.\n> \n> *nitpick* :-)\n\nDone.\n\n> > > > 28. Which of the following features do or did you use?\n> > > \n> > > I think many of the possible replies have been used in several other\n> > > questions before, e.g. in \n> > > - 21. (gitk, git gui), \n> > > - 24. (git bundle),\n> > > - 26/27. (git gui, gitk, git stash)\n> > > - ...\n> > > \n> > > But this question still seems to makes sense for:\n> > > [ ] eol conversion (crlf)\n> > > [ ] gitattributes\n> > > [ ] reflog (ref@{23})\n> > > [ ] shallow clone\n> > > [ ] detaching HEAD <- I think several people could have used that without knowing\n> > > [ ] commit templates\n> > > [ ] integration with IDE/editor\n> > > [ ] non-default hooks\n> \n> No comment here? ;-)\n> \n> When replying to this question I really felt like having answered all\n> that before.\n\nThey _are_ different questions; yes, some answers repeat themselves\nbecause I tried each question to be self-contained, if possible, so\nit should be easy to skip some question and still have full value\nin the rest of questions.\n\n> > > And btw:\n> > > > [ ] working with dirty tree <- Eh? Is this a feature?\n> > \n> > This is distinguishing feature. What I mean here that you can use\n> > \"git add\" and \"git commit\" (not \"git commit -a\")\n> \n> Sounds like \"Taking advantage of using the index\".\n> (Yesterday/today/tomorrow I am using SVN in university and I wished so\n> much that I had some git or at least git-svn[1] just because of the\n> *index*.)\n\nHmmm... reading the above I have thought about adding \"incremental\ncommitting\" to the list of features; I mean here the workflow of\n\"; git add; git diff/git diff --cached; ; git add; commit\"\n\nBut I think I'll just add \"the index\" to question\n\n 30. Which features do you find unique and/or useful ones,\n compared to other systems (other SCMs)?\n\nand leave the rest for free-form question 31. following it: \"If you use\nsome important Git features not mentioned above, what are those?\".\n\n> Another general comment: Multiple choice question have the disadvantage\n> that we cannot distinguish \"None\" and skipped questions.\n> So if this is an issue, I wonder if adding a \"None of the above\" choice\n> could help. But perhaps this is no issue and can be ignored.\n\nHmmmm....\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"88400","messageId":"20080824213634.GA16753@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808200308.26308.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-08-24T21:36:34Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-24T21:36:34Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi again,\n\n> 8. Which Git version(s) are you using? \n> [ ] pre 1.3\n> [ ] 1.3.x\n...\n> [ ] master\n> [ ] next\n\nI wonder if people who do not know about master/next being git.git\nbranches may do \"[X] next\" because they think they will use the next\nversion available.\n\nSo could you write \"master branch of official git repository\" and the\nsame for \"next\"?\n\n> 12. What other SCM did or do you use?\n...\n> By \"custom (non-published)\" it is meant here version control system\n> which was not released to the public, for example something written\n> for yourself, or internal company project used only in company.\n\nBetter:\n \"custom (non-published)\" means a version control system which has\n not been released to the public, for example, something written for\n yourself or your company only.\n\nAnd I am unsure if \"SCM\" is better than \"version control system\"\nin this sentence, but I do not think this is really important.\n\n> 16. I use Git for (check all that apply):\n...\n> Note that above choices are neither orthogonal nor exclusive.\n> You might want to check multiple answers wven for single repository.\n ^^^^^^^^^ \"even for a\"\n\n> 17. How do you obtain Git?\n...\n> [ ] pull form main repository\n ^^^^ from\n\n> Explanation: binary package covers pre-compiled binary; source script\n> is meant to cover installation in source-based distributions, like\n> 'emerge' in Gentoo.\n\n\"pre-compiled binary (e.g. from rpm or deb archives)\"\n\nRight?\nI think naming two popular package formats of distributors should people\nhelp to get the point.\n\n> 29. Which of the following features do or did you use?\n\nI still dislike that there are a lot of choices that generate redundancy\nto other questions.\nOn the other hand, scientific surveys always contain (hidden) redundancy\nto ensure that the test person gives sane answers.\n\n> 59. Should Git User's Survey be repeated next year?\n \n> ( ) Yes\n> ( ) No\n> ( ) no opinion\n> Reset\n\nI wonder if the \"no opinion\" choice is not needed because there is the\n\"Reset\" button.\n\n\nApropos!\n\nIs it possible to add a header text?\n\nI'd like that there are three things being clarified at the beginning of\nthe survey page:\n\n * The survey is anonymous, but all information that the users provide will\n be publicly available on the wiki.\n\n * The users may skip questions as they like.\n\n * The user needs JavaScript to submit the survey.\n\nI btw do not like the last fact, but since most users nowadays have\nJavaScript activated, it may not be that bad.\n\nAlso, I still do not get a succesful message after submitting, but that\nmay be related to the channel (test), if you have configured it like\nthat. Have you? ;)\n\nRegards,\n Stephan\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"88413","messageId":"200808250241.40407.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080824213634.GA16753@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-25T00:41:37Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-25T00:41:37Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Sun, 24 Aug 2008, Stephan Beyer napisał:\n> Hi again,\n> \n> > 8. Which Git version(s) are you using? \n> > [ ] pre 1.3\n> > [ ] 1.3.x\n> ...\n> > [ ] master\n> > [ ] next\n> \n> I wonder if people who do not know about master/next being git.git\n> branches may do \"[X] next\" because they think they will use the next\n> version available.\n> \n> So could you write \"master branch of official git repository\" and the\n> same for \"next\"?\n\nThanks. I've added this.\n\n> > 12. What other SCM did or do you use?\n> ...\n> > By \"custom (non-published)\" it is meant here version control system\n> > which was not released to the public, for example something written\n> > for yourself, or internal company project used only in company.\n> \n> Better:\n> \"custom (non-published)\" means a version control system which has\n> not been released to the public, for example, something written for\n> yourself or your company only.\n\nThank you, that is much better.\n\n> And I am unsure if \"SCM\" is better than \"version control system\"\n> in this sentence, but I do not think this is really important.\n\nHmmm...\n\n> > 16. I use Git for (check all that apply):\n> ...\n> > Note that above choices are neither orthogonal nor exclusive.\n> > You might want to check multiple answers wven for single repository.\n> ^^^^^^^^^ \"even for a\"\n> \n\nCorrected. Thanks.\n\n> > 17. How do you obtain Git?\n> ...\n> > [ ] pull form main repository\n> ^^^^ from\n\nCorrected. Thanks.\n \n> > Explanation: binary package covers pre-compiled binary; source script\n> > is meant to cover installation in source-based distributions, like\n> > 'emerge' in Gentoo.\n> \n> \"pre-compiled binary (e.g. from rpm or deb archives)\"\n\nThanks, added.\n\n> > 59. Should Git User's Survey be repeated next year?\n> \n> > ( ) Yes\n> > ( ) No\n> > ( ) no opinion\n> > Reset\n> \n> I wonder if the \"no opinion\" choice is not needed because there is the\n> \"Reset\" button.\n> \n> \n> Apropos!\n> \n> Is it possible to add a header text?\n\nIt is possible.\n \n> I'd like that there are three things being clarified at the beginning of\n> the survey page:\n> \n> * The survey is anonymous, but all information that the users provide will\n> be publicly available on the wiki.\n> \n> * The users may skip questions as they like.\n> \n> * The user needs JavaScript to submit the survey.\n\nThanks for reminding this. I have added this to survey.\n\n> I btw do not like the last fact, but since most users nowadays have\n> JavaScript activated, it may not be that bad.\n\nF**k. I didn't notice this soon enough, and now I'd rather not re-enter\nall 60 questions. I have sent feedback that requiring JavaScript to be\nable to submit survey is strange.\n\nSurvs.com came recommended here on this mailing list. I have chosen it\nover editing old www.survey.net.nz because it had \"other (please specify)\"\nfor both single answer (radio button) and multiple choice (checkbox)\nquestion; later also because of the \"matrix\" questions. I didn't realize\nthat it requires JavaScript to submit... perhaps this would get corrected\nbefore starting point for Git User's Survey 2008 (1 September, or later).\n\n> Also, I still do not get a succesful message after submitting, but that\n> may be related to the channel (test), if you have configured it like\n> that. Have you? ;)\n\nYes, that depends on channel configuration, and I have forgot to add it\nfor this channel.\n\nThanks again for checking this survey, and for your comments.\n\nBTW. here is analysis of 'test' channel (note that some questions, and\nsome possible answers, were added after starting 'test' channel):\n\n http://www.survs.com/app/4/wo/Y03N37u4Ou5p9SmoNrc5f0/0.0.33.1.1.1.1.5.1.1.0.1.1.7.11.0.1.0.13.1.1\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"88416","messageId":"200808250356.59611.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"20080825012653.GB28160@leksak.fem-net","subject":"Re: [RFC v2] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-25T01:56:58Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-25T01:56:58Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, 25 Aug 2008, Stephan Beyer wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> Stephan Beyer wrote:\n\n>>> I btw do not like the last fact, but since most users nowadays have\n>>> JavaScript activated, it may not be that bad.\n>> \n>> F**k. I didn't notice this soon enough, and now I'd rather not re-enter\n>> all 60 questions. I have sent feedback that requiring JavaScript to be\n>> able to submit survey is strange.\n> \n> Yes, a simple \"old-school\" would be nice for\n> some users. I did not notice that, too. Can you write or have you\n> written feedback on that topic to the survs people?\n\nI have send feedback.\n\nThe problem is not that _filling_ survey requires JavaScript, because\nit doesn't. The problem is that submit _link_ uses JavaScript link\njavascript:finishSurvey() instead of having submit _button_, which\nwould use 'submit URL' (and optionally have onSubmit event to check\nresponse).\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"88521","messageId":"200808260008.28958.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"[RFC v3] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-25T22:08:27Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-25T22:08:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"This is third (and hopefully last) revision of proposed questions \nand announcement for Git User's Survey 2008.\n\n\nFirst, it was decided that it would be web based survey. I would use\nSurvs.com (new, in beta); it is unlikely to change as all questions \nare entered there already and moving it would require quite a bit of \nwork. It was recommended here on the list (I have received courtesy\ninvitation; thanks a lot); I have chosen it over survey.net.nz, used for \npreceding 2006 (by Paolo Ciarrocchi) and 2007 (by me) surveys, because \nit has some nice features, and allows export of results to CSV format \nfor further analysis.\n\nNote that new features like \"matrix\" questions and ability to have\n'other' selection for single choice and multiple choice questions\naffect a bit form of this survey. This also affect chance to move \nsurvey to different web survey site.\n\nThere are good news and bad news about choosing Survs.com. Good news is \nthat there would be no problem of free Survs beta account expiring \nduring running survey, or during analysis. Bad news is that submitting \nsurvey currently requires having JavaScript enabled, which was pointed \nout by Stephan Beyer; they are working on it, but I don't know if this \nissue would be corrected in time for planned duration of Git User's \nSurvey 2008.\n\n\nSecond, what possible answers in the case of single answer and multiple \nanswer questions should be? You can view current version of survey at \nprovided survey link (see below), currently test one only. Please \npoint typos, mistakes and errors; I am not native English speaker.\n\n\nThird, where to send survey to / where to publish information about the \nsurvey? Last year the announcement was send to git mailing list, to\nLKML (Linux kernel mailing list), and mailing list for git projects \nfound on GitProjects page on GIT wiki. Now that the number of projects \nusing Git as version control system has grown, I don't think it would \nbe good idea to \"spam\" all those mailing list; and if we don't send \nnotice to all other projects I'm not sure if we should include LKML.\n\nLast year survey announcement was put on Git Homepage (thanks Pasky), \nand on front page of Git Wiki; info about survey was also put on two \ngit hosting sites: kernel.org and repo.or.cz. It would be nice if it \nwas possible to put announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 at front \npages of other Git hosting sites, like GitHub (one of most popular, I \nthink), Gitorious, Freedesktop.org. If you know some other popular Git \nhosting sites, and even better if you know who to contact about putting \nsurvey announcement, please write. Is there some channel that I have \nforgot about? Should info/announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 be \nsent also to one of on-line magazines like LinuxToday or LWN, or asked \nto put on some blog? I'll add it as journal entry for #git on Ohloh, \nand try to make it so it would appear in \"News\" section for Ohloh \nproject page for Git: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/git.\n\nSurvs.com has nice feature of \"channels\", which allow to count\nresponses sent via different means separately; I am using it to\npublish URL for 'test' channel - answers from this channel won't be\ncounted AT ALL!!!\n\nI am thinking about asking to put annoncement about Git User's\nSurvey 2008 at the following places (in parenthesis there are people who \nI think can ask to put announcement about survey):\n * git.or.cz, Git Homepage (Petr 'Pasky' Baudis)\n * git-scm.com, alternate Git Homepage (Scott Chacon)\n * http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/FrontPage (it is wiki, after all)\n * #git channel subject (one of channel admins, but who?)\n * git.kernel.org (John 'Warthog9' Hawley)\n * repo.or.cz (Petr 'Pasky' Baudis)\n * gitorious.org (???)\n * github.com (???)\n * ...\nWhat are other git hosting sites, or blogs, or other sites where to ask \nto put announcement about this survey?\n\n\nFourth, how long should the survey last? When sending announcement we \nshould say where notice about Git User's Survey 2008 should be taken \ndown. Last year the survey was meant to take three weeks, but was up \nlonger. I'm thinking about having it last a month, or a month and a\nhalf, starting from September 1.\n\n\nBelow there is second version of announcement email (I should probably\ncome up also with boilerplate announcement for web pages). I haven't \nput third version of this year round of questions, because text of \nsurvey at Survs.com and what I had written diverged, I'm sorry...\n\n----\nHello all,\n\nWe would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the Git\nversion control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\nusing Git, how and why.\n\nThe results will be published to the Git wiki and discussed on the git\nmailing list.\n\nWe'll close the survey in 1 month starting from today, 1 September.\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple\nquestionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your\nneeds, what you like of git, and of course what you don't like of it.\n\nThe survey can be found here:\n http://www.survs.com/survey?id=M3PIVU72&channel=9XYYGHJ77G\n\n(this is temporary channel URL; responses to this URL would\nbe, I guess, discarded).\n----\n\nYou can view survey results (only summary, not individual responses)\nat http://www.survs.com/shareResults?survey=M3PIVU72&rndm=OKJQ45LAG8\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"88834","messageId":"20080828002857.GD12354@leksak.fem-net","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808260008.28958.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v3] Git User's Survey 2008","fromName":"Stephan Beyer","fromEmail":"s-beyer@gmx.net","sentAt":"2008-08-28T00:28:57Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-28T00:28:57Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"s-beyer@gmx.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/143889?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nJakub Narebski wrote:\n> Fourth, how long should the survey last?\n\nI still think Oct 10 (a Friday) is a good date.\nThis is ~6 weeks - other opinions?\n\n> (I should probably come up also with boilerplate announcement for web\n> pages).\n\nOk, I've written a text that can be seen as some kind of announcement\ntemplate for news on {Open Source,programming,Linux}-related news sites.\n\n--8<--\nGit User's Survey Begins\n\n\nTwo weeks after the major release of Git version 1.6.0,\nthe Git community starts a survey containing 60 questions\nthat can help to understand the users' needs, behavior,\nand what they like and dislike about Git.\n\nGit is a distributed source code\nmanagement system (or in other words: distributed version control system)\nthat was initially written by Linus Torvalds for the Linux kernel\ndevelopment after the proprietary BitKeeper system stopped being\nfree of charge in 2005.\nQuickly Git gained popularity and other Open Source projects like\nX.org,\nVLC or\nWINE\nbegan to use it.\n\nThere have already been user surveys in\n2006 and\n2007.\nSince then, a lot has changed.\n\nGit users are called upon to answer the questions until Oct 10, 2008.\nAfter that date, the results can be found on the\nGit Wiki\nin CSV format and in some evaluated form.\n\n\nLink: http://www.survs.com/survey?id=M3PIVU72&channel=2WXE4BVTW8\n or: http://tinyurl.com/gitsurvey2008 (a short link, not yet generated)\n or: http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2008\n-->8--\n\nOf course, this is open for improvements and discussion.\n\nBTW, this is explicitly _not_ meant for Git-specific web sites.\nThere the announcement of the last year might be sufficient, in\nsome slightly changed form:\n\n--8<--\nThe Git User's Survey is up!\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple questionnaire.\nIt will help the Git community to understand your needs, what you like of\nGit, and, of course, what you don't like of it.\n-->8--\n\n\nRegards,\n Stephan\n\n-- \nStephan Beyer , PGP 0x6EDDD207FCC5040F\n"},{"id":"89187","messageId":"200808300333.46408.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200807230325.04184.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"[RFC v4] Git User's Survey 2008 (cover letters)","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-08-30T01:33:45Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-30T01:33:45Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"This is fourth (and hopefully last) revision of proposed questions \nand announcement for Git User's Survey 2008. This time is mainly about \ncreating good cover (announcement) letter, and about where to announce \nthe survey.\n\nSurvey would be at Survs.com, is spite of its deficiencies like \nrequiring JavaScript to submit (which might get corrected before \nplanned start of survey); it has some nice features which survey.net.nz \n(the site which was used for 2006 and 2007 surveys) doesn't have.\nMoving to other _free_ web survey site now would be difficult...\n\nYou can view current version of survey at provided survey link (see \nbelow); unfortunately proposed questions (and answers) diverged a bit \nfrom what was entered at Survs.com. It would be possible nevertheless \nto get current version of questions, comments, and possible answers, if \nrequired.\n\nQuestions that remains: where to send announcement about this survey, \nand what should be written in such announcement. I am thinking about \nasking to put announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 at the \nfollowing places (in parenthesis there are people who, I think,\nI can ask to put announcement about survey):\n * git.or.cz, Git Homepage (Petr 'Pasky' Baudis)\n * git-scm.com, alternate Git Homepage (Scott Chacon)\n * http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/FrontPage (it is wiki, after all)\n * #git channel subject (one of channel admins, but who?)\n * git.kernel.org (John 'Warthog9' Hawley)\n * repo.or.cz (Petr 'Pasky' Baudis)\n * gitorious.org (???)\n * github.com (???)\n * ...\nWhat are other git hosting sites, or blogs, or other sites where to ask \nto put announcement about this survey?\n\n\n\nBelow there is new version of announcement email:\n-- >8 --\nTo: git@vger.kernel.org, (probably other sites).\nSubject: [ANNOUNCE] Git User's Survey 2008\n\nHello all,\n\nWe would like to ask you a few questions about your use of the Git\nversion control system. This survey is mainly to understand who is\nusing Git, how and why.\n\nThe results will be published to the Git wiki and discussed on the git\nmailing list.\n\nThe survey would be open from 1 September till 10 October.\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple\nquestionnaire, it will help a lot the git community to understand your\nneeds, what you like of git, and of course what you don't like of it.\n\nThe survey can be found here:\n http://www.survs.com/survey?id=M3PIVU72&channel=2WXE4BVTW8\n-------\nNote that above channel is currently _closed_. If you want to take\na peek at current version of the survey, use \"test\" channel:\n http://www.survs.com/survey?id=M3PIVU72&channel=9XYYGHJ77G\n(it should be open, unless I am modifying some questions). You can find \nsummary analysis (without answers to free-form questions) at:\n http://www.survs.com/shareResults?survey=M3PIVU72&rndm=OKJQ45LAG8\n\n\n \nStephan Beyer proposed the following announcement template for news on \n{Open Source,programming,Linux}-related news sites (with some small \nmodifications by me):\n-- >8 --\nSubject: Git User's Survey 2008 Begins\n\nTwo weeks after the major release of Git version 1.6.0,\nthe Git community starts a survey containing 60 questions\nthat can help to understand the users' needs, behavior,\nand what they like and dislike about Git.\n\nGit is a distributed source code\nmanagement system (or in other words: distributed version control \nsystem) that was initially written by Linus Torvalds for the Linux \nkernel development after the proprietary BitKeeper system stopped being\nfree of charge in 2005. Quickly Git gained popularity and other Open \nSource projects like\nX.org,\nVLC or\nWINE\nbegan to use it.\n\nThere have already been user surveys in\n2006 and\n2007.\nSince then, a lot has changed.\n\nGit users are called upon to answer the questions until Oct 10, 2008.\nAfter that date, the results can be found on the\nGit Wiki\nin CSV format, and later in some evaluated form.\n\n\nLink: http://www.survs.com/survey?id=M3PIVU72&channel=2WXE4BVTW8\n or: http://tinyurl.com/gitsurvey2008 (a short link, not yet generated)\n or: http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSurvey2008\n-- 8< --\n\n\n\nAnd below there is proposed announcement to be put on git-relates sites, \nlike Git Homepage (git.or.cz and git-scm.com), GitWiki (FrontPage), and \ngit hosting sites (repo.or.cz, kernel.org, freedesktop.org, gitorious, \ngithub,...\n-- >8 --\nThe Git User's Survey is up!\n\nPlease devote a few minutes of your time to fill this simple \nquestionnaire. It will help the Git community to understand your \nneeds, what you like of Git, and, of course, what you don't like of \nit.\n-- 8< --\nWhat is lacking is how the request/announcement _email_ to be send to \nadministrators of those sites would look like. Help, please?\n\n\nP.S. In 2006 I think the announcement was put only on git mailing list, \nin 2007 beside putting it on repo.or.cz, git.kernel.org and GitWiki it \nwas send to mailing lists (and newsgroups) for many different projects \nwhich use git for development, as SCM of choice. But the number of \nsuch projects has grown enormously. I wonder if we should send survey \nannouncements also to individual mailing lists for different projects, \nlike WINE, OLPC, X.Org, etc.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"89238","messageId":"20080830190050.GA1877@garry-thinkpad.arpnetworks.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808300333.46408.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v4] Git User's Survey 2008 (cover letters)","fromName":"Garry Dolley","fromEmail":"gdolley@arpnetworks.com","sentAt":"2008-08-30T19:00:51Z","receivedAt":"2008-08-30T19:00:51Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gdolley@ucla.edu","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/b9ca98e2d5fd3a993ad695e8315f078b7ae364d2d1b637a6adecf8953a034dd2?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 03:33:45AM +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Questions that remains: where to send announcement about this survey, \n> and what should be written in such announcement. I am thinking about \n> asking to put announcement about Git User's Survey 2008 at the \n> following places (in parenthesis there are people who, I think,\n> I can ask to put announcement about survey):\n> * git.or.cz, Git Homepage (Petr 'Pasky' Baudis)\n> * git-scm.com, alternate Git Homepage (Scott Chacon)\n> * http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/FrontPage (it is wiki, after all)\n> * #git channel subject (one of channel admins, but who?)\n> * git.kernel.org (John 'Warthog9' Hawley)\n> * repo.or.cz (Petr 'Pasky' Baudis)\n> * gitorious.org (???)\n> * github.com (???)\n\nFor github.com, you would ask Chris Wanstrath or PJ Hyett.\n\n-- \nGarry Dolley\nARP Networks, Inc.\nhttp://scie.nti.st\nLos Angeles County REACT, Unit 336\nWQGK336\n"},{"id":"89370","messageId":"4d8e3fd30809010047i50cd358at403c9229fc480bf8@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"14609","inReplyTo":"200808300333.46408.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: [RFC v4] Git User's Survey 2008 (cover letters)","fromName":"Paolo Ciarrocchi","fromEmail":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-09-01T07:47:49Z","receivedAt":"2008-09-01T07:47:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n\nHi Jakub!\n\n> P.S. In 2006 I think the announcement was put only on git mailing list,\n\nNo, in 2006 I sent the announcement to the following lists:\n\nwine-users@winehq.org\nxmms2-devel@lists.xmms.org\nxcb@lists.freedesktop.org\ncairo@cairographics.org\nu-boot-users@lists.sourceforge.net\ngit@vger.kernel.org\nlinux-kernel@vger.kernel.org\nlinux@ml.bilug.linux.it (my LUG)\n\nCiao,\n-- \nPaolo\nhttp://paolo.ciarrocchi.googlepages.com/\n"}]}