{"thread":{"id":"13106","subject":"RFC: Website redesign","startedAt":"2008-04-14T05:37:03Z","lastAt":"2008-04-16T01:36:29Z","messageCount":20,"participants":["Dill","Jonas Fonseca","Wincent Colaiuta","Sverre Rabbelier","Anand Kumria","Dmitry Potapov","Jakub Narebski","Petr Baudis","Steve Hoelzer","Junio C Hamano"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"74306","messageId":"3175605f-ff32-4fd6-bed3-7ae596ecbcde@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T05:37:03Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T05:37:03Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"I was looking at the main git site and thought that maybe it could be\ndone differently. I tried to make it simple and professional looking\nand have all the same information as the old site. I've spend a good\nportion of the day hashing it out and wanted to hear what others\nthought. Worth changing? Like it or not?\n\nMain one:\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git\n\nAlternate looks:\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git4\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git3\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git2\n"},{"id":"74350","messageId":"2c6b72b30804140656g14c24d8cwae016d62fe12f4a7@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"3175605f-ff32-4fd6-bed3-7ae596ecbcde@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Jonas Fonseca","fromEmail":"jonas.fonseca@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T13:56:06Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T13:56:06Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jonas.fonseca@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/9b7fa23cce50269e5d164312b6ac5ae818a180f837b38f28f3bdf689dd7f96cd?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"Hello Dill,\n\nOn Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Dill wrote:\n> I was looking at the main git site and thought that maybe it could be\n> done differently. I tried to make it simple and professional looking\n> and have all the same information as the old site. I've spend a good\n> portion of the day hashing it out and wanted to hear what others\n> thought. Worth changing? Like it or not?\n\nYes, it is definitely worth changing. In all the user surveys to date people\nhas commented on the design of the git homepage mentioning words like\nugly, not useful, strangely named, etc. After the last survey I registered\ngit-scm.org to have a more friendly name.\n\nQuestion is what kind of \"official\" home page is suitable for git? As it is now,\nmost projects using git provides documentation for what kind of workflow\nthey recommend for their specific project, and else the git distribution point\non kernel.org has the latest manpages, tutorials etc. supplemented by the\ngit wiki.\n\nYour examples capture this very good in the sense that the homepage should\nbasically be a very simple page that send visitors in the \"right\" direction for\ngetting documentation, downloading the latest release, and joining the\ncommunity.\nI like the restlet.org page with its four basic tasks. As your\nexamples also suggest\nand as a fourth task, it could be nice to also in time fill the void\nof having a news\nsource about git related releases, developer interviews, GSoC info, the Msysgit\nHerald, and other interesting stuff happening in the community for people who do\nnot feel they have the time to read the mailing list. This of course\nrequires that there\nis a small dedicated team for collecting and preparing these updates. I would be\nwilling to help, but have occasional fall-outs where I do not read the\nmailing list.\n\nRegarding the design/style etc, I am credited for the current one that\nPetr forked from\nthe ELinks homepage. It is ugly, and git deserved better! This is just\nto say that I probably\nshouldn't be part of this work. I find your redesign proposal 1, 3 and\n4 a too dark or gray.\nNumber 2 (git2) with its bluish has some nice ideas. The text might be\ntoo small, at least\nfrom what I am seeing and the list menu has a strange coloring.\n\nIf the home page should carry news it needs to have infrastructure so\nthat we don't need\nto bug Petr each time it should be updated. I have commit access to\nthe git-homepage\nrepo and maybe Petr could add others as well, but the question is if\nwe want some web\ninterface for submitting news. I registered git-scm.org after the last\nsurvey and right now\nit is just set up as an alias for git.or.cz. It comes with some PHP\ncapability which could\nserve as a place to develop a redesign, however, I am not hosting it\nmyself and I don't\nknow what kind of traffic will be required.\n\n-- \nJonas Fonseca\n"},{"id":"74359","messageId":"56e37551-4b8f-4164-a71d-79dba8635b7d@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"2c6b72b30804140656g14c24d8cwae016d62fe12f4a7@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T15:38:25Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T15:38:25Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Isn't it possible to set up a git repo that has all the web page files\nand have it set up so the web site updates from that repo. Or just\nhave Petr run a few commands. Or maybe that's what happens already.\nThen allow a few people to write to that repo. As far as the news go,\nthe web page I set up is easily edited by hand and updated it's just\nhow do we quickly allow updates without bothering people. Heres some\nmore designs:\n\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git5\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git6 -my personal favorite\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git7\n\nJonas Fonseca wrote:\n> Hello Dill,\n>\n> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Dill wrote:\n> > I was looking at the main git site and thought that maybe it could be\n> > done differently. I tried to make it simple and professional looking\n> > and have all the same information as the old site. I've spend a good\n> > portion of the day hashing it out and wanted to hear what others\n> > thought. Worth changing? Like it or not?\n>\n> Yes, it is definitely worth changing. In all the user surveys to date people\n> has commented on the design of the git homepage mentioning words like\n> ugly, not useful, strangely named, etc. After the last survey I registered\n> git-scm.org to have a more friendly name.\n>\n> Question is what kind of \"official\" home page is suitable for git? As it is now,\n> most projects using git provides documentation for what kind of workflow\n> they recommend for their specific project, and else the git distribution point\n> on kernel.org has the latest manpages, tutorials etc. supplemented by the\n> git wiki.\n>\n> Your examples capture this very good in the sense that the homepage should\n> basically be a very simple page that send visitors in the \"right\" direction for\n> getting documentation, downloading the latest release, and joining the\n> community.\n> I like the restlet.org page with its four basic tasks. As your\n> examples also suggest\n> and as a fourth task, it could be nice to also in time fill the void\n> of having a news\n> source about git related releases, developer interviews, GSoC info, the Msysgit\n> Herald, and other interesting stuff happening in the community for people who do\n> not feel they have the time to read the mailing list. This of course\n> requires that there\n> is a small dedicated team for collecting and preparing these updates. I would be\n> willing to help, but have occasional fall-outs where I do not read the\n> mailing list.\n>\n> Regarding the design/style etc, I am credited for the current one that\n> Petr forked from\n> the ELinks homepage. It is ugly, and git deserved better! This is just\n> to say that I probably\n> shouldn't be part of this work. I find your redesign proposal 1, 3 and\n> 4 a too dark or gray.\n> Number 2 (git2) with its bluish has some nice ideas. The text might be\n> too small, at least\n> from what I am seeing and the list menu has a strange coloring.\n>\n> If the home page should carry news it needs to have infrastructure so\n> that we don't need\n> to bug Petr each time it should be updated. I have commit access to\n> the git-homepage\n> repo and maybe Petr could add others as well, but the question is if\n> we want some web\n> interface for submitting news. I registered git-scm.org after the last\n> survey and right now\n> it is just set up as an alias for git.or.cz. It comes with some PHP\n> capability which could\n> serve as a place to develop a redesign, however, I am not hosting it\n> myself and I don't\n> know what kind of traffic will be required.\n>\n> --\n> Jonas Fonseca\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n"},{"id":"74365","messageId":"96F7571C-1D9D-4F0A-99F1-A2307DAB0374@wincent.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"56e37551-4b8f-4164-a71d-79dba8635b7d@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Wincent Colaiuta","fromEmail":"win@wincent.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T17:03:48Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T17:03:48Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"greg@hurrell.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/7074?v=4"},"body":"El 14/4/2008, a las 17:38, Dill escribió:\n> Isn't it possible to set up a git repo that has all the web page files\n> and have it set up so the web site updates from that repo. Or just\n> have Petr run a few commands. Or maybe that's what happens already.\n> Then allow a few people to write to that repo. As far as the news go,\n> the web page I set up is easily edited by hand and updated it's just\n> how do we quickly allow updates without bothering people. Heres some\n> more designs:\n>\n> http://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git5\n> http://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git6 -my personal favorite\n> http://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git7\n\nWith all due respect, all of the designs you've posted look like \n_weblog_ templates, and that doesn't seem appropriate to me for a \nsoftware website. One of the things I most dislike about the weblog \nformat is the fixed-width centre column and the large tracks of wasted \nspace down the sides; although the official site is certainly \"bare \nbones\" (some would say \"ugly\") at the moment, at least the information \ndensity is high and there isn't any wasted space.\n\nCheers,\nWincent\n"},{"id":"74370","messageId":"bd6139dc0804141129h25c829e2i320f227594763d71@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"96F7571C-1D9D-4F0A-99F1-A2307DAB0374@wincent.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Sverre Rabbelier","fromEmail":"alturin@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T18:29:00Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T18:29:00Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"alturin@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Wincent Colaiuta wrote:\n> With all due respect, all of the designs you've posted look like _weblog_\n> templates, and that doesn't seem appropriate to me for a software website.\n> One of the things I most dislike about the weblog format is the fixed-width\n> centre column and the large tracks of wasted space down the sides; although\n> the official site is certainly \"bare bones\" (some would say \"ugly\") at the\n> moment, at least the information density is high and there isn't any wasted\n> space.\n\nThat is most probably due to that the templates googlepages offer are\nmostly aimed at such weblogs. I think the suggestions are not just for\nlayout but also for color (which is very important, to me at least,\nwhen deciding whether a webpage is 'damn ugly' or 'quite nice').\n\nAlso I think that the main page should not contain more information\nthan fits in one 'screen'. That is, there should be no scrollbar on\n'sensible' (say, above 1024*768) resolutions. To me a site feels\n'overfull' if it's mainpage has a scrolbarr. Instead, I think the\nmainpage should be a portal to other parts of the website, instead\nof... well... everything-crammed-on-one-page-so that.... so that what?\nWhat purpose does it serve to put all information, ungrouped, not easy\nto find, and as such chaotic, on one page?\n\nAnyway... \n\nCheers,\n\nSverre Rabbelier\n"},{"id":"74380","messageId":"pan.2008.04.14.20.39.10@progsoc.org","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"bd6139dc0804141129h25c829e2i320f227594763d71@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Anand Kumria","fromEmail":"wildfire@progsoc.org","sentAt":"2008-04-14T20:39:00Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T20:39:00Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"wildfire@progsoc.org","avatar":null},"body":"On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:29:00 +0200, Sverre Rabbelier wrote:\n\n> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Wincent Colaiuta \n> wrote:\n>> With all due respect, all of the designs you've posted look like\n>> _weblog_\n>> templates, and that doesn't seem appropriate to me for a software\n>> website. One of the things I most dislike about the weblog format is\n>> the fixed-width centre column and the large tracks of wasted space down\n>> the sides;\n\nThat is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n\n\n\nOne of the \"hotties\" is a software project, and Free Software at that.\n\nI think the designs are a good first starting point. \n\nYou have a range of colour schemes there, I think you need to pick one or \ntwo visuals -- and some appropriate icons (3D pandas? bender the robot? \nherring?) as well.\n\nCheers,\nAnand\n"},{"id":"74382","messageId":"20080414213339.GB10300@dpotapov.dyndns.org","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"pan.2008.04.14.20.39.10@progsoc.org","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Dmitry Potapov","fromEmail":"dpotapov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T21:33:39Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T21:33:39Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dpotapov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6568595?v=4"},"body":"On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:00PM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n> \n> That is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n> \n> \n> \n> One of the \"hotties\" is a software project, and Free Software at that.\n> \n> I think the designs are a good first starting point. \n\nAnd here is what validator.w3.org says about this page:\n\nThis page is not Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict!\nResult: \t Failed validation, 83 Errors \n\nBTW, validator.w3.org does not catch every problem. In particular, it\ndoes not detect problems with CSS. So, it is likely to be much more...\n\nDmitry\n"},{"id":"74410","messageId":"pan.2008.04.15.03.25.00@progsoc.org","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"20080414213339.GB10300@dpotapov.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Anand Kumria","fromEmail":"wildfire@progsoc.org","sentAt":"2008-04-15T03:24:50Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T03:24:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"wildfire@progsoc.org","avatar":null},"body":"On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:33:39 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n\n> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:00PM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n>> \n>> That is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n>> \n>> \n>> \n>> One of the \"hotties\" is a software project, and Free Software at that.\n>> \n>> I think the designs are a good first starting point.\n> \n> And here is what validator.w3.org says about this page:\n\nI'm sure you had some useful information to add, but it hasn't come \nacross. I've indicated that 'this; page notes current design style and \nthat it calls out a particular free software project (mozilla) for its \nexcellence.\n\nBut let's continue your, rather pointless, exercise:\n\nhttp://git.or.cz/ - invalid, 9 errors\n\nhttp://mozilla.org/ - valid, 1 warning\n\nSo well designed, and valid markup are possible.\n\nAnand\n"},{"id":"74413","messageId":"8607f754-92c8-49ca-9bc9-11e58b66ef40@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"pan.2008.04.15.03.25.00@progsoc.org","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-15T05:05:33Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T05:05:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"For what it's worth my pages had zero errors. ;) And if it was up to\nme, which it isn't I'd vote that the page change to this:\nhttp://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git7 (minus the madison word of\ncourse)\n\nOn Apr 14, 9:24 pm, Anand Kumria wrote:\n> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:33:39 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:00PM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n>\n> >> That is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n>\n> >> \n>\n> >> One of the \"hotties\" is a software project, and Free Software at that.\n>\n> >> I think the designs are a good first starting point.\n>\n> > And here is what validator.w3.org says about this page:\n>\n> I'm sure you had some useful information to add, but it hasn't come\n> across. I've indicated that 'this; page notes current design style and\n> that it calls out a particular free software project (mozilla) for its\n> excellence.\n>\n> But let's continue your, rather pointless, exercise:\n>\n> http://git.or.cz/- invalid, 9 errors\n>\n> http://mozilla.org/- valid, 1 warning\n>\n> So well designed, and valid markup are possible.\n>\n> Anand\n>\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n"},{"id":"74418","messageId":"acfbfe5b-f3a1-4c22-a873-ed329552d1bb@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"8607f754-92c8-49ca-9bc9-11e58b66ef40@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-15T06:48:21Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T06:48:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Perhaps we should just make the home page a wiki! It would work really\ngood! If we use a theme like they do at wiki.ubuntu.com or somewhere\nelse we could make it look really nice for a home page. Then once it's\nset up, no one has to manage the page, worry about commits, who's\ndoing what, etc, and just have the pages edited and worked on by the\ncommunity at large who register at the site to edit. (Unlike the wiki\nin use now something would have to be done to stop the spam, like\nhaving those boxes at registration where you have pick the letters\nout) Once set up it would simplify things. Do I dare say that Hg uses\nthe wiki idea. Works but their theme really looks horrible. Of course\ngit would do it better. ;) Ours would be way more pretty! Anyone else\nthink a wiki would work for home page? If we could get some work done\non the theme on moinmoin and get it upgraded and completely set up we\ncould do a mockup of what it could look like and if people like it\njust get rid of the old and have the wiki page be the start page. It\nwould also solve the news problem as I'm willing and I'm sure others\nwould too edit to make sure it's up to date.\n\nOthers that make moinmoin look good:\nhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/\nhttp://live.gnome.org/\nhttps://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu?action=show\n\n\nOn Apr 14, 11:05 pm, Dill wrote:\n> For what it's worth my pages had zero errors. ;) And if it was up to\n> me, which it isn't I'd vote that the page change to this:http://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git7(minus the madison word of\n> course)\n>\n> On Apr 14, 9:24 pm, Anand Kumria wrote:\n>\n> > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:33:39 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:00PM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n>\n> > >> That is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n>\n> > >> \n>\n> > >> One of the \"hotties\" is a software project, and Free Software at that.\n>\n> > >> I think the designs are a good first starting point.\n>\n> > > And here is what validator.w3.org says about this page:\n>\n> > I'm sure you had some useful information to add, but it hasn't come\n> > across. I've indicated that 'this; page notes current design style and\n> > that it calls out a particular free software project (mozilla) for its\n> > excellence.\n>\n> > But let's continue your, rather pointless, exercise:\n>\n> >http://git.or.cz/-invalid, 9 errors\n>\n> >http://mozilla.org/-valid, 1 warning\n>\n> > So well designed, and valid markup are possible.\n>\n> > Anand\n>\n> > --\n> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> > the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org\n> > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n>\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html\n"},{"id":"74420","messageId":"20080415070832.GC10300@dpotapov.dyndns.org","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"pan.2008.04.15.03.25.00@progsoc.org","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Dmitry Potapov","fromEmail":"dpotapov@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-15T07:08:32Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T07:08:32Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"dpotapov@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6568595?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 03:24:50AM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:33:39 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> \n> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:00PM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n> >> \n> >> That is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n> >> \n> >> \n> >> \n> >> One of the \"hotties\" is a software project, and Free Software at that.\n> >> \n> >> I think the designs are a good first starting point.\n> > \n> > And here is what validator.w3.org says about this page:\n> \n> I'm sure you had some useful information to add, but it hasn't come \n> across. \n\nI would never call a page with more than 83 problems as a good starting\npoint, but I am sure for someone who alleges to make the best web\ndesign, it should not be too difficult to correct that.\n\nBTW, \"Web 2.0\" does not refer to any specific visual design but implies\nsemantically valid XHTML and HTML markup among other things. So, I am\nnot quite sure what you meant by saying \"Web 2.0 style\".\n\n\nDmitry\n"},{"id":"74421","messageId":"m3r6d7sgf9.fsf@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"pan.2008.04.15.03.25.00@progsoc.org","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-15T07:53:10Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T07:53:10Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Anand Kumria writes:\n\n> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:33:39 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> \n>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:00PM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n>>> \n>>> That is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n>>> \n>>> \n>>> \n>>> One of the \"hotties\" is a software project, and Free Software at that.\n>>> \n>>> I think the designs are a good first starting point.\n>> \n>> And here is what validator.w3.org says about this page:\n\nPlease do not remove _important_ information. I have added what you\nshould have quoted below:\n\n>> This page is not Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict!\n>> Result: \t Failed validation, 83 Errors \n \n> I'm sure you had some useful information to add, but it hasn't come \n> across. I've indicated that 'this; page notes current design style and \n> that it calls out a particular free software project (mozilla) for its \n> excellence.\n> \n> But let's continue your, rather pointless, exercise:\n> \n> http://git.or.cz/ - invalid, 9 errors\n\nAnd when _examining_ this error one would realize that _all_ those\nerrors are in _single_, old style (using unencoded ampersands) URL.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"74422","messageId":"m3mynvsg40.fsf@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"acfbfe5b-f3a1-4c22-a873-ed329552d1bb@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-15T07:59:49Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T07:59:49Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Dill writes:\n\n> Perhaps we should just make the home page a wiki! It would work really\n> good! If we use a theme like they do at wiki.ubuntu.com or somewhere\n> else we could make it look really nice for a home page. Then once it's\n> set up, no one has to manage the page, worry about commits, who's\n> doing what, etc, and just have the pages edited and worked on by the\n> community at large who register at the site to edit. \n\nFirst, as far as I now all _popular_ wikis offer quite limited markup.\n\nSecond, current git homepage has information about latest release, and\nlatest release date etc. updated *automatically*, by the script IIRC\nexaminimg announcement on git mailing list. This I think would be not\npossible with wiki.\n\n> (Unlike the wiki in use now something would have to be done to stop\n> the spam, like having those boxes at registration where you have\n> pick the letters out).\n\nIf you have wiki which is popular page you would have spam. Or you\nwouldn't have contributors (or at least as many contributors) if you\nwould bring barriers to entry (e.g. register to edit, validation via\nemail, CAPTCHA) against spam.\n\n[cut] \nMany more projects IMVHO have _both_ homepage and wiki, than only wiki\n(wiki as homepage).\n\nP.S. Please do not toppost. If your post doesn't refer to the message\nyou are replying to, simply post it as clean message, without quoted\ntext.\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"74435","messageId":"20080415115431.GA26302@machine.or.cz","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"56e37551-4b8f-4164-a71d-79dba8635b7d@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2008-04-15T11:54:31Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T11:54:31Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"Please do not top-post, it makes it more difficult to follow the thread\nand reply.\n\nOn Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:38:25AM -0700, Dill wrote:\n> Jonas Fonseca wrote:\n> > If the home page should carry news it needs to have infrastructure\n> > so that we don't need to bug Petr each time it should be updated. I\n> > have commit access to the git-homepage repo and maybe Petr could add\n> > others as well, but the question is if we want some web interface\n> > for submitting news. I registered git-scm.org after the last survey\n> > and right now it is just set up as an alias for git.or.cz. It comes\n> > with some PHP capability which could serve as a place to develop a\n> > redesign, however, I am not hosting it myself and I don't know what\n> > kind of traffic will be required.\n\nThe server currently hosting git.or.cz could run PHP too if it would\nmake sense. I'd of course prefer Perl (and it would be easier to set\nup), but I probably wouldn't do much of the coding myself, so it's not\nup to me to decide.\n\n> Isn't it possible to set up a git repo that has all the web page files\n> and have it set up so the web site updates from that repo. Or just\n> have Petr run a few commands. Or maybe that's what happens already.\n\nThis is exactly the current setup: http://repo.or.cz/w/git-homepage.git\n\n> Then allow a few people to write to that repo. As far as the news go,\n> the web page I set up is easily edited by hand and updated it's just\n> how do we quickly allow updates without bothering people. Heres some\n> more designs:\n> \n> http://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git5\n> http://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git6 -my personal favorite\n> http://sarpulhu.googlepages.com/git7\n\nI appreciate the effort, but frankly, I simply personally like the\ncurrent layout much more - the design certainly has quirks, but I don't\nreally find it bad; I also think that the current amount of content does\nnot justify splitting to multiple pages. The newly proposed version\nlooks to me just as barebone graphically as the old one, with the same\nlevel of navigability but wasting screen estate and requiring more\nclicks to get where you need.\n\nThat said, this can (and quite probably does) merely mean that I simply\nhave no taste at all and should be kept away from any kind of web\ndesign! :-) So, I do not want to inhibit progress at all, but before\nconsidering to adopt the new design, I would prefer to see wider\nfeedback from the core members of the community to convince me that I'm\nwrong.\n\nSomething in the style of earlier mentioned restlet.org might not be\nnecessarily bad (though I'm slightly wary of too toyish-looking\ngraphics), but it appears to me that graphically, that site is simply on\na completely different level than the current proposals. But if someone\nwould do some cute design, I believe the current layout could look quite\nnice too - after all, consider http://bazaar-vcs.org/ (modulo the wiki\nartifacts plague).\n\nKind regards,\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nWhatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.\nBoldness has genius, power, and magic in it.\t-- J. W. von Goethe\n"},{"id":"74438","messageId":"20080415115741.GB26302@machine.or.cz","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"acfbfe5b-f3a1-4c22-a873-ed329552d1bb@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2008-04-15T11:57:41Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T11:57:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":" Hi,\n\nOn Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:48:21PM -0700, Dill wrote:\n> Perhaps we should just make the home page a wiki! It would work really\n> good! If we use a theme like they do at wiki.ubuntu.com or somewhere\n> else we could make it look really nice for a home page. Then once it's\n> set up, no one has to manage the page, worry about commits, who's\n> doing what, etc, and just have the pages edited and worked on by the\n> community at large who register at the site to edit. (Unlike the wiki\n> in use now something would have to be done to stop the spam, like\n> having those boxes at registration where you have pick the letters\n> out) Once set up it would simplify things. Do I dare say that Hg uses\n> the wiki idea. Works but their theme really looks horrible. Of course\n> git would do it better. ;) Ours would be way more pretty! Anyone else\n> think a wiki would work for home page? If we could get some work done\n> on the theme on moinmoin and get it upgraded and completely set up we\n> could do a mockup of what it could look like and if people like it\n> just get rid of the old and have the wiki page be the start page. It\n> would also solve the news problem as I'm willing and I'm sure others\n> would too edit to make sure it's up to date.\n\n let's keep two things separate here: design and content. Design-wise,\nit does not matter if it is wiki or not, it is a completely different\nissue. And making the wiki look good would be non-trivial amount of work\nand the benefits seem unclear to me - so far, we aren't exactly drowning\nin patches for the website either (though I admit that some of them\nmight have been lost anyway if the contributor was unlucky and not\npersistent enough ;-).\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nWhatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.\nBoldness has genius, power, and magic in it.\t-- J. W. von Goethe\n"},{"id":"74450","messageId":"20080415143345.GC26302@machine.or.cz","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"m3r6d7sgf9.fsf@localhost.localdomain","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2008-04-15T14:33:45Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T14:33:45Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:53:10AM -0700, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Anand Kumria writes:\n> \n> > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:33:39 +0400, Dmitry Potapov wrote:\n> > \n> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:39:00PM +0000, Anand Kumria wrote:\n> >>> \n> >>> That is basically the current \"Web 2.0 style\".\n> >>> \n> >>> \n\nThanks for this link, I find it quite insightful - and at the same time\nI believe that the changes to the current homepage could be much less\nradical to significantly improve the design and flow of the page\naccording to the principles described there.\n\n> > But let's continue your, rather pointless, exercise:\n> > \n> > http://git.or.cz/ - invalid, 9 errors\n> \n> And when _examining_ this error one would realize that _all_ those\n> errors are in _single_, old style (using unencoded ampersands) URL.\n\nHa! Good catch, and all the parameters are actually useless - fixed,\nthanks. :-)\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nWhatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.\nBoldness has genius, power, and magic in it.\t-- J. W. von Goethe\n"},{"id":"74454","messageId":"20080415162008.GD26302@machine.or.cz","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"20080415115741.GB26302@machine.or.cz","subject":"Git Homepge Update","fromName":"Petr Baudis","fromEmail":"pasky@suse.cz","sentAt":"2008-04-15T16:20:09Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T16:20:09Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"pasky@ucw.cz","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18439?v=4"},"body":" Hi,\n\nOn Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:57:41PM +0200, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> let's keep two things separate here: design and content. Design-wise,\n> it does not matter if it is wiki or not, it is a completely different\n> issue. And making the wiki look good would be non-trivial amount of work\n> and the benefits seem unclear to me - so far, we aren't exactly drowning\n> in patches for the website either (though I admit that some of them\n> might have been lost anyway if the contributor was unlucky and not\n> persistent enough ;-).\n\n by the way, I have read through the homepage again after some time and\ntweaked the text a bit for clarity and perhaps grammar (hope I didn't\nmake it worse than it was). I have also reorganized the Related Tools\nsection and rewrote the initial paragraph.\n\n Design-wise, I have added some extra spacing at many places, turned\nthe Related Tools section to a 2x2 grid to take less vertical space and\nredone the main headline. Also, I tried to tweak the color scheme to\nuse brighter and less nauseating colors - please tell me what do you\nthink!\n\n I'm wondering whether perhaps the page is still too wide now - one\nidea would be to move the header, the two link boxes and possibly some\nof the contact information to a sidebar - the link boxes always looked a\nbit strange to me. I'm not sure how much would it help, though.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\tPetr \"Pasky\" Baudis\nWhatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.\nBoldness has genius, power, and magic in it.\t-- J. W. von Goethe\n"},{"id":"74458","messageId":"588192970804151057pc87b73fvee9eb8a47b1d4e78@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"20080415162008.GD26302@machine.or.cz","subject":"Re: Git Homepge Update","fromName":"Steve Hoelzer","fromEmail":"shoelzer@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-15T17:57:59Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T17:57:59Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"shoelzer@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/4623209?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Petr Baudis wrote:\n> I'm wondering whether perhaps the page is still too wide now - one\n> idea would be to move the header, the two link boxes and possibly some\n> of the contact information to a sidebar - the link boxes always looked a\n> bit strange to me. I'm not sure how much would it help, though.\n\nYes, a bit wide, I think. A sidebar is one option, or just keep the\npage as-is and limit width via CSS.\n\n body { max-width: 50em; margin: 0.4em auto; }\n\nSteve\n"},{"id":"74461","messageId":"7vtzi35707.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"20080415115431.GA26302@machine.or.cz","subject":"Re: RFC: Website redesign","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-04-15T18:04:56Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-15T18:04:56Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Petr Baudis writes:\n\n> I appreciate the effort, but frankly, I simply personally like the\n> current layout much more - the design certainly has quirks, but I don't\n> really find it bad; I also think that the current amount of content does\n> not justify splitting to multiple pages. The newly proposed version\n> looks to me just as barebone graphically as the old one, with the same\n> level of navigability but wasting screen estate and requiring more\n> clicks to get where you need.\n>\n> That said, this can (and quite probably does) merely mean that I simply\n> have no taste at all and should be kept away from any kind of web\n> design! :-) So, I do not want to inhibit progress at all, but before\n> considering to adopt the new design, I would prefer to see wider\n> feedback from the core members of the community to convince me that I'm\n> wrong.\n\nI always wish that any proposal for change is countered by silent\nsatisfied customers expressing why the current one is good, and this is a\nperfect opportunity for me to do so as I am just a satisfied customer of\ngit.or.cz, who is not involved in the building side at all.\n\nIf I recall correctly, the old old site was split like how the sarpulhu\nsample page shows, a sketchy top page with links to other pages. It is\ntempting to build a sparse scaffolding in the expectation that each page\nwill be filled with rich contents later, and the fear of having too many\nthings in one page drives people to make the initial scaffolding too\nsparse. But as you say, the current \"single page that is not too long\ndescribes all the necessary things and points people at outside resources\"\nformat is much nicer.\n\nI happen to also like one aspect of visual behaviour of git.or.cz better\nthan the sarpulhu sample page. The former widens as I resize my browser\nwindow, the latter doesn't.\n"},{"id":"74520","messageId":"m363uishr7.fsf@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"13106","inReplyTo":"20080415162008.GD26302@machine.or.cz","subject":"Re: Git Homepge Update","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-16T01:36:29Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-16T01:36:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Petr Baudis writes:\n\n> By the way, I have read through the homepage again after some time and\n> tweaked the text a bit for clarity and perhaps grammar (hope I didn't\n> make it worse than it was). I have also reorganized the Related Tools\n> section and rewrote the initial paragraph.\n> \n> Design-wise, I have added some extra spacing at many places, turned\n> the Related Tools section to a 2x2 grid to take less vertical space\n\nIMHO it is not a good idea. First, because it decreases page height\nby a unsignificant amount; we still need scrollbar. Second, more\nimportant imho that this 2x2 grid contains _unrelated_ information\nwhich belong in _different_ sections, namely 3 subsections of git\nrelated tools, and one completely unrelated on git _hosting_.\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"}]}