{"thread":{"id":"13101","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","startedAt":"2008-04-14T01:03:21Z","lastAt":"2008-04-14T16:53:43Z","messageCount":12,"participants":["Jakub Narebski","Dill","J.H.","Santi Béjar","Johannes Schindelin","Sean Estabrooks","Jeremy Maitin-Shepard"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"74294","messageId":"200804140303.22624.jnareb@gmail.com","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"60CC37BF5A3B73428D0BB9B6A26B9669019D95DA@yvrmail1.corp.navcan.ca","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T01:03:21Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T01:03:21Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"[Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, Petr Baudis ]\n\nPack, Dylan wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote\n>> On Mon, 14 April 2008, Pack, Dylan wrote: \n>>\n>>> I've noticed to that the wiki gets mixed up if I use the GUI editor.\n>>> Looks like I'm going to have the syntax after all of well.\n> \n>> Unfortunately Git Wiki administrator (Petr Baudis, who also maintains \n>> git homepage), doesn't have much time to spend on configuring wiki,\n>> and doesn't know well MoinMoin. The problem seems to lie in the fact\n>> that Wikipedia-like (or rather MediaWiki-like) syntax provided by\n>> (I guess) media4moin plugin doesn't modify GUI editing. This affect\n>> mosts macros, which in default MoinMoin syntax are written as\n>> e.g. [[BR]], while Wikipedia-like syntax uses e.g. {{BR}}.\n> \n> Perhaps a move to wikidot.com would work? They have an awesome set up\n> for wikis. I've tried them out and they are fast and always improving\n> the wiki. We could even add google adsense on the wikidot site for\n> money to be put into various git projects decided on by the\n> developers. Not sure how much money though a git wiki site would make.\n\nI'm not sure if it is a good idea. We would loose a bit control, and \nwould have git homepage and git wiki in separate domains. On the other \nhand some of admin stuff would be passed to wiki hosting site. \nBazaar-NG, Mercurial and Monotone (and also Emacs) have their own self \nhosted wikis.\n\nGit homepage at git.or.cz (or git-scm.org), Git Wiki at \ngit.or.cz/gitwiki and free git hosting at repo.or.cz are all provided \nby Petr 'Pasky' Baudis (thanks a lot, again!).\n\nBy the way, Git Wiki initially began as a \"staging ground\" for contents \nwhich would get incorporated into Git Homepage...\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nPoland\n"},{"id":"74296","messageId":"5779238b-eaf9-4669-bf11-62c657ce7c77@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"200804140303.22624.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T01:11:53Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T01:11:53Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"True but how much control do we need? Wikidot pretty much lets you do\nanything you would need and it's very well designed. It would reduce\nPetr's workload and Wikidot seems to be very reliable. I don't think\nit would hurt IF the wiki was somewhere else. IMHO.\n\nOn Apr 13, 7:03 pm, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> [Cc: g...@vger.kernel.org, Petr Baudis ]\n>\n>\n>\n>\n>\n> Pack, Dylan wrote:\n> > Jakub Narebski wrote\n> >> On Mon, 14 April 2008, Pack, Dylan wrote:\n>\n> >>> I've noticed to that the wiki gets mixed up if I use the GUI editor.\n> >>> Looks like I'm going to have the syntax after all of well.\n>\n> >> Unfortunately Git Wiki administrator (Petr Baudis, who also maintains\n> >> git homepage), doesn't have much time to spend on configuring wiki,\n> >> and doesn't know well MoinMoin.  The problem seems to lie in the fact\n> >> that Wikipedia-like (or rather MediaWiki-like) syntax provided by\n> >> (I guess) media4moin plugin doesn't modify GUI editing.  This affect\n> >> mosts macros, which in default MoinMoin syntax are written as\n> >> e.g. [[BR]], while Wikipedia-like syntax uses e.g. {{BR}}.\n>\n> > Perhaps a move to wikidot.com would work? They have an awesome set up\n> > for wikis. I've tried them out and they are fast and always improving\n> > the wiki. We could even add google adsense on the wikidot site for\n> > money to be put into various git projects decided on by the\n> > developers. Not sure how much money though a git wiki site would make.\n>\n> I'm not sure if it is a good idea.  We would loose a bit control, and\n> would have git homepage and git wiki in separate domains.  On the other\n> hand some of admin stuff would be passed to wiki hosting site.  \n> Bazaar-NG, Mercurial and Monotone (and also Emacs) have their own self\n> hosted wikis.\n>\n> Git homepage at git.or.cz (or git-scm.org), Git Wiki at\n> git.or.cz/gitwiki and free git hosting at repo.or.cz are all provided\n> by Petr 'Pasky' Baudis (thanks a lot, again!).\n>\n> By the way, Git Wiki initially began as a \"staging ground\" for contents\n> which would get incorporated into Git Homepage...\n>\n> --\n> Jakub Narebski\n> Poland\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html- Hide quoted text -\n>\n> - Show quoted text -\n"},{"id":"74297","messageId":"16595972-e2bc-4a16-8163-fb60ae796aa6@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"200804140303.22624.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T01:20:35Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T01:20:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Oh ya and wikidot allows custom domains so maybe it's possible to set\nit up using the git domain that is currently in use.\n\nOn Apr 13, 7:03 pm, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> [Cc: g...@vger.kernel.org, Petr Baudis ]\n>\n>\n>\n>\n>\n> Pack, Dylan wrote:\n> > Jakub Narebski wrote\n> >> On Mon, 14 April 2008, Pack, Dylan wrote:\n>\n> >>> I've noticed to that the wiki gets mixed up if I use the GUI editor.\n> >>> Looks like I'm going to have the syntax after all of well.\n>\n> >> Unfortunately Git Wiki administrator (Petr Baudis, who also maintains\n> >> git homepage), doesn't have much time to spend on configuring wiki,\n> >> and doesn't know well MoinMoin.  The problem seems to lie in the fact\n> >> that Wikipedia-like (or rather MediaWiki-like) syntax provided by\n> >> (I guess) media4moin plugin doesn't modify GUI editing.  This affect\n> >> mosts macros, which in default MoinMoin syntax are written as\n> >> e.g. [[BR]], while Wikipedia-like syntax uses e.g. {{BR}}.\n>\n> > Perhaps a move to wikidot.com would work? They have an awesome set up\n> > for wikis. I've tried them out and they are fast and always improving\n> > the wiki. We could even add google adsense on the wikidot site for\n> > money to be put into various git projects decided on by the\n> > developers. Not sure how much money though a git wiki site would make.\n>\n> I'm not sure if it is a good idea.  We would loose a bit control, and\n> would have git homepage and git wiki in separate domains.  On the other\n> hand some of admin stuff would be passed to wiki hosting site.  \n> Bazaar-NG, Mercurial and Monotone (and also Emacs) have their own self\n> hosted wikis.\n>\n> Git homepage at git.or.cz (or git-scm.org), Git Wiki at\n> git.or.cz/gitwiki and free git hosting at repo.or.cz are all provided\n> by Petr 'Pasky' Baudis (thanks a lot, again!).\n>\n> By the way, Git Wiki initially began as a \"staging ground\" for contents\n> which would get incorporated into Git Homepage...\n>\n> --\n> Jakub Narebski\n> Poland\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html- Hide quoted text -\n>\n> - Show quoted text -\n"},{"id":"74298","messageId":"1208137224.2867.110.camel@localhost.localdomain","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"200804140303.22624.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"J.H.","fromEmail":"warthog19@eaglescrag.net","sentAt":"2008-04-14T01:40:23Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T01:40:23Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"warthog19@eaglescrag.net","avatar":null},"body":"Depending on the level of customization your really looking for, you\ncould always make a request to kernel.org to host the wiki ( already\nhosting ext4.wiki.kernel.org, btrfs.wiki.kernel.org,\nmoin.wiki.kernel.org, etc)\n\nIt's running a shared hosted version of mediawiki, however I know for a\nfact the admin doesn't want to do *too* much customization of the\nunderlying wiki and doesn't have a lot of time to devote to it, he's\ngood at keeping it running but the content / customization would need to\nbe handled by a more dedicated person.\n\n- John 'Warthog9' Hawley\n\nOn Mon, 2008-04-14 at 03:03 +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> [Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, Petr Baudis ]\n> \n> Pack, Dylan wrote:\n> > Jakub Narebski wrote\n> >> On Mon, 14 April 2008, Pack, Dylan wrote: \n> >>\n> >>> I've noticed to that the wiki gets mixed up if I use the GUI editor.\n> >>> Looks like I'm going to have the syntax after all of well.\n> > \n> >> Unfortunately Git Wiki administrator (Petr Baudis, who also maintains \n> >> git homepage), doesn't have much time to spend on configuring wiki,\n> >> and doesn't know well MoinMoin. The problem seems to lie in the fact\n> >> that Wikipedia-like (or rather MediaWiki-like) syntax provided by\n> >> (I guess) media4moin plugin doesn't modify GUI editing. This affect\n> >> mosts macros, which in default MoinMoin syntax are written as\n> >> e.g. [[BR]], while Wikipedia-like syntax uses e.g. {{BR}}.\n> > \n> > Perhaps a move to wikidot.com would work? They have an awesome set up\n> > for wikis. I've tried them out and they are fast and always improving\n> > the wiki. We could even add google adsense on the wikidot site for\n> > money to be put into various git projects decided on by the\n> > developers. Not sure how much money though a git wiki site would make.\n> \n> I'm not sure if it is a good idea. We would loose a bit control, and \n> would have git homepage and git wiki in separate domains. On the other \n> hand some of admin stuff would be passed to wiki hosting site. \n> Bazaar-NG, Mercurial and Monotone (and also Emacs) have their own self \n> hosted wikis.\n> \n> Git homepage at git.or.cz (or git-scm.org), Git Wiki at \n> git.or.cz/gitwiki and free git hosting at repo.or.cz are all provided \n> by Petr 'Pasky' Baudis (thanks a lot, again!).\n> \n> By the way, Git Wiki initially began as a \"staging ground\" for contents \n> which would get incorporated into Git Homepage...\n> \n"},{"id":"74299","messageId":"0c43e61a-af62-4bee-88de-f3a62948bb58@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"1208137224.2867.110.camel@localhost.localdomain","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T01:47:37Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T01:47:37Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"Interesting. I like how kernel.org uses the same software as\nwikipedia. More familiar. Plus I probably would trust kernel.org more\nthan wikidot.com being more reliable. If it was indeed moved to\nkernel.org I volunteer to help port and transfer the data over.\n\nOn Apr 13, 7:40 pm, \"J.H.\" wrote:\n> Depending on the level of customization your really looking for, you\n> could always make a request to kernel.org to host the wiki ( already\n> hosting ext4.wiki.kernel.org, btrfs.wiki.kernel.org,\n> moin.wiki.kernel.org, etc)\n>\n> It's running a shared hosted version of mediawiki, however I know for a\n> fact the admin doesn't want to do *too* much customization of the\n> underlying wiki and doesn't have a lot of time to devote to it, he's\n> good at keeping it running but the content / customization would need to\n> be handled by a more dedicated person.\n>\n> - John 'Warthog9' Hawley\n>\n>\n>\n>\n>\n> On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 03:03 +0200, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> > [Cc: g...@vger.kernel.org, Petr Baudis ]\n>\n> > Pack, Dylan wrote:\n> > > Jakub Narebski wrote\n> > >> On Mon, 14 April 2008, Pack, Dylan wrote:\n>\n> > >>> I've noticed to that the wiki gets mixed up if I use the GUI editor.\n> > >>> Looks like I'm going to have the syntax after all of well.\n>\n> > >> Unfortunately Git Wiki administrator (Petr Baudis, who also maintains\n> > >> git homepage), doesn't have much time to spend on configuring wiki,\n> > >> and doesn't know well MoinMoin.  The problem seems to lie in the fact\n> > >> that Wikipedia-like (or rather MediaWiki-like) syntax provided by\n> > >> (I guess) media4moin plugin doesn't modify GUI editing.  This affect\n> > >> mosts macros, which in default MoinMoin syntax are written as\n> > >> e.g. [[BR]], while Wikipedia-like syntax uses e.g. {{BR}}.\n>\n> > > Perhaps a move to wikidot.com would work? They have an awesome set up\n> > > for wikis. I've tried them out and they are fast and always improving\n> > > the wiki. We could even add google adsense on the wikidot site for\n> > > money to be put into various git projects decided on by the\n> > > developers. Not sure how much money though a git wiki site would make.\n>\n> > I'm not sure if it is a good idea.  We would loose a bit control, and\n> > would have git homepage and git wiki in separate domains.  On the other\n> > hand some of admin stuff would be passed to wiki hosting site.  \n> > Bazaar-NG, Mercurial and Monotone (and also Emacs) have their own self\n> > hosted wikis.\n>\n> > Git homepage at git.or.cz (or git-scm.org), Git Wiki at\n> > git.or.cz/gitwiki and free git hosting at repo.or.cz are all provided\n> > by Petr 'Pasky' Baudis (thanks a lot, again!).\n>\n> > By the way, Git Wiki initially began as a \"staging ground\" for contents\n> > which would get incorporated into Git Homepage...\n>\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html- Hide quoted text -\n>\n> - Show quoted text -\n"},{"id":"74300","messageId":"8c25cb7a-a544-4464-b0ac-c95f99b349a0@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"200804140303.22624.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Dill","fromEmail":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T02:25:41Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T02:25:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"sarpulhu@gmail.com","avatar":null},"body":"The more I think of it... maybe it's best to leave the wiki alone.\nIt's not broken...it's just not great. Maybe we should just leaves\nthings as they are? I'm sure we can work around the problems the\nsoftware sometimes gives us. But on the other hand a move to\ngit.kernel.org would be easier to use it's just a lot of work to move\nit over there. Anyone else have complaints about the wiki? Or maybe\nI'm the only one. ;)\n\nOn Apr 13, 7:03 pm, Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> [Cc: g...@vger.kernel.org, Petr Baudis ]\n>\n>\n>\n>\n>\n> Pack, Dylan wrote:\n> > Jakub Narebski wrote\n> >> On Mon, 14 April 2008, Pack, Dylan wrote:\n>\n> >>> I've noticed to that the wiki gets mixed up if I use the GUI editor.\n> >>> Looks like I'm going to have the syntax after all of well.\n>\n> >> Unfortunately Git Wiki administrator (Petr Baudis, who also maintains\n> >> git homepage), doesn't have much time to spend on configuring wiki,\n> >> and doesn't know well MoinMoin.  The problem seems to lie in the fact\n> >> that Wikipedia-like (or rather MediaWiki-like) syntax provided by\n> >> (I guess) media4moin plugin doesn't modify GUI editing.  This affect\n> >> mosts macros, which in default MoinMoin syntax are written as\n> >> e.g. [[BR]], while Wikipedia-like syntax uses e.g. {{BR}}.\n>\n> > Perhaps a move to wikidot.com would work? They have an awesome set up\n> > for wikis. I've tried them out and they are fast and always improving\n> > the wiki. We could even add google adsense on the wikidot site for\n> > money to be put into various git projects decided on by the\n> > developers. Not sure how much money though a git wiki site would make.\n>\n> I'm not sure if it is a good idea.  We would loose a bit control, and\n> would have git homepage and git wiki in separate domains.  On the other\n> hand some of admin stuff would be passed to wiki hosting site.  \n> Bazaar-NG, Mercurial and Monotone (and also Emacs) have their own self\n> hosted wikis.\n>\n> Git homepage at git.or.cz (or git-scm.org), Git Wiki at\n> git.or.cz/gitwiki and free git hosting at repo.or.cz are all provided\n> by Petr 'Pasky' Baudis (thanks a lot, again!).\n>\n> By the way, Git Wiki initially began as a \"staging ground\" for contents\n> which would get incorporated into Git Homepage...\n>\n> --\n> Jakub Narebski\n> Poland\n> --\n> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line \"unsubscribe git\" in\n> the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org\n> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html- Hide quoted text -\n>\n> - Show quoted text -\n"},{"id":"74336","messageId":"8aa486160804140106m570d3fb9va0081d8a0d42870@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"200804140303.22624.jnareb@gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Santi Béjar","fromEmail":"sbejar@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-04-14T08:06:41Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T08:06:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"santi@agolina.net","avatar":null},"body":"Maybe we could switch to a wiki with git support (it solves the\nproblem because there is no GUI, jeje), for example ikiwiki. This way\nyou can edit the pages from the web and from git. Some time ago I told\nit to Petr and he answered me \"but I'd prefer you to discuss this at\ngit@\". I didn't because I didn't find an \"easy\" way to convert\nMoinMoin to Markdown (used by default in ikiwiki, but can can be\nothers via plugins), but maybe others know!\n\nSanti\n"},{"id":"74356","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0804141555350.28504@racer","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"8aa486160804140106m570d3fb9va0081d8a0d42870@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-04-14T14:58:29Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T14:58:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Santi Béjar wrote:\n\n> Maybe we could switch to a wiki with git support (it solves the\n> problem because there is no GUI, jeje), for example ikiwiki.\n\nWhile this would seem a good idea from the viewpoint of using as much of \nyour own dog food as possible, I think that the Wiki is fine as-is. \nEspecially since I like to spend more time hacking on Git than on the \nWiki, and I expect most people to feel the same.\n\nIOW I think a change of system is just not worth the effort.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"74360","messageId":"BAYC1-PASMTP10A8BA28CC2999519EA0B2AEE80@CEZ.ICE","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0804141555350.28504@racer","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Sean Estabrooks","fromEmail":"seanlkml@sympatico.ca","sentAt":"2008-04-14T15:48:46Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T15:48:46Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"seanlkml@sympatico.ca","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/f92923f54fc08c401fc59b71829d4b89e9b8087fbba45ff87c82e6a83aee02ae?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:58:29 +0100 (BST)\nJohannes Schindelin wrote:\n\nHi Johannes,\n\n> While this would seem a good idea from the viewpoint of using as much of \n> your own dog food as possible, I think that the Wiki is fine as-is. \n> Especially since I like to spend more time hacking on Git than on the \n> Wiki, and I expect most people to feel the same.\n\nIt's not just about eating dog food but improving the chances that people\nuse and update the wiki with useful stuff. Adding the ability for people to\nclone a copy of the wiki onto their own systems and use it offline can only\nhelp. If people are permitted to push changes back to the wiki it has the\npotential to change the rules of the game in a positive way[1].\n\nA change in infrastructure like this might increase the number of contributors\nof tutorial and faq answers. It might even give developers a little more time\nwith the source rather than documentation and user support. Then again it\nmight not, but we'll never know unless it's tried.\n\n> IOW I think a change of system is just not worth the effort.\n\nThere seems little reason to discourage someone from taking a stab at it if\nthey're so inclined.\n\nCheers,\nSean\n\n[1] Ikiwiki uses the Markdown format which has fewer features than say\nAsciidoc but is very Emacs/Vim friendly so it's not hard to imagine people\ncloning the wiki and using it this way.\n"},{"id":"74362","messageId":"alpine.DEB.1.00.0804141701290.28504@racer","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"BAYC1-PASMTP10A8BA28CC2999519EA0B2AEE80@CEZ.ICE","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2008-04-14T16:03:02Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T16:03:02Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Sean Estabrooks wrote:\n\n> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:58:29 +0100 (BST)\n> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> \n> > IOW I think a change of system is just not worth the effort.\n> \n> There seems little reason to discourage someone from taking a stab at it \n> if they're so inclined.\n\nOh, sorry, I see how what I said could leave that impression.\n\nWhat I meant was this: I am quite content with the state as-is. Having \nsaid that, if somebody wants to try, it could turn out to be useful for \nall the reasons you mentioned.\n\nThanks,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"74363","messageId":"87skxos93x.fsf@jeremyms.com","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"BAYC1-PASMTP10A8BA28CC2999519EA0B2AEE80@CEZ.ICE","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Jeremy Maitin-Shepard","fromEmail":"jbms@cmu.edu","sentAt":"2008-04-14T16:18:42Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T16:18:42Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jbms@cmu.edu","avatar":null},"body":"Sean Estabrooks writes:\n\n> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:58:29 +0100 (BST)\n> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n\n> Hi Johannes,\n\n>> While this would seem a good idea from the viewpoint of using as much of \n>> your own dog food as possible, I think that the Wiki is fine as-is. \n>> Especially since I like to spend more time hacking on Git than on the \n>> Wiki, and I expect most people to feel the same.\n\n> It's not just about eating dog food but improving the chances that people\n> use and update the wiki with useful stuff. Adding the ability for people to\n> clone a copy of the wiki onto their own systems and use it offline can only\n> help. If people are permitted to push changes back to the wiki it has the\n> potential to change the rules of the game in a positive way[1].\n\nI've thought about this possibility myself, but it seems that the clone,\nedit, commit, push cycle may not really be ideal for a wiki. For one\nthing, it is hardly ever necessary or useful to have anything more than\nper-file commits. Also, if there are a large number of simultaneous\nusers trying to push to the repository, you could run into a problem\nwhereby you can never successfully push because ever time you try, it is\nnot a fast-forward, so you have to fetch then merge (we can assume the\nmerge is just done automatically because e.g. only different files were\nmodified) then try to push again, but before you have a chance to retry\nthe push, the branch head may have changed again due to another push.\n\nI suppose in practice this may not be a problem for the git wiki as it\nmay not have so many contributors, but this would certainly be a problem\nfor e.g. wikipedia.\n\nMore generally, though, although we may all dislike using webpage\ninterfaces, actually having to keep the entire wiki updated locally\ndoesn't seem terribly useful. Really, you just want a way to edit a\nparticular page in your text editor, have various commands available for\ne.g. previewing, and have commands available for showing the log\ninformation with a nicer interface than a web page.\n\n-- \nJeremy Maitin-Shepard\n"},{"id":"74364","messageId":"BAYC1-PASMTP07541F260058BCB1E881EFAEE80@CEZ.ICE","threadId":"13101","inReplyTo":"87skxos93x.fsf@jeremyms.com","subject":"Re: Git Wiki improvements","fromName":"Sean Estabrooks","fromEmail":"seanlkml@sympatico.ca","sentAt":"2008-04-14T16:53:43Z","receivedAt":"2008-04-14T16:53:43Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"seanlkml@sympatico.ca","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/f92923f54fc08c401fc59b71829d4b89e9b8087fbba45ff87c82e6a83aee02ae?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:18:42 -0400\nJeremy Maitin-Shepard wrote:\n\nHi Jeremy,\n\n> I've thought about this possibility myself, but it seems that the clone,\n> edit, commit, push cycle may not really be ideal for a wiki. For one\n> thing, it is hardly ever necessary or useful to have anything more than\n> per-file commits. Also, if there are a large number of simultaneous\n> users trying to push to the repository, you could run into a problem\n> whereby you can never successfully push because ever time you try, it is\n> not a fast-forward, so you have to fetch then merge (we can assume the\n> merge is just done automatically because e.g. only different files were\n> modified) then try to push again, but before you have a chance to retry\n> the push, the branch head may have changed again due to another push.\n> \n> I suppose in practice this may not be a problem for the git wiki as it\n> may not have so many contributors, but this would certainly be a problem\n> for e.g. wikipedia.\n\nYeah, it should be okay on this scale, its the same as having multiple developers\npush into a common source repo. Ikiwiki itself is hosted in Git and handles its\nown wiki exactly this way. It can be updated via the web site or Git push.\nRunning \"git pull --rebase\" before doing a push into the wiki isn't onerous.\n\n> More generally, though, although we may all dislike using webpage\n> interfaces, actually having to keep the entire wiki updated locally\n> doesn't seem terribly useful. Really, you just want a way to edit a\n> particular page in your text editor, have various commands available for\n> e.g. previewing, and have commands available for showing the log\n> information with a nicer interface than a web page.\n\nThe goal would be to make the help texts available in multiple ways. In a\ntext editor, or converted into other formats for use with other tools. More\nimportantly they should continue be easy to find with Google and editable\nvia a browser for quick fixes by casual users. But as it stands, the wiki\ninformation is stuck on the web.\n\nGit's documentation is already handled very close to this today. It's easy to\nclone the asciidoc source, read in a text editor, and turned into web or man\npages. It seems attractive to do likewise for the wiki docs since the tools\nare all at hand.\n\nCheers,\nSean\n"}]}