{"thread":{"id":"11632","subject":"[ANNOUNCE] Push Me Pull You 0.2 - Tech Preview Release","startedAt":"2008-01-15T21:31:33Z","lastAt":"2008-01-17T01:56:54Z","messageCount":5,"participants":["Mark Williamson","Junio C Hamano","Martin Langhoff"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"65423","messageId":"200801152131.33628.mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","threadId":"11632","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"[ANNOUNCE] Push Me Pull You 0.2 - Tech Preview Release","fromName":"Mark Williamson","fromEmail":"mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","sentAt":"2008-01-15T21:31:33Z","receivedAt":"2008-01-15T21:31:33Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","avatar":null},"body":"Hi all,\n\nI'd like to announce a new release of the Push Me Pull You (pmpu) tool; a GUI \nfor distributed revision control systems.\n\nPMPU supports plain hg, hg forest repositories, bzr, git and darcs as \nunderlying repositories.  It aims to provide a powerful graphical interface \nto the underlying functionality, based around the workflow of incoming and \noutgoing changesets.\n\nPMPU is implemented in Python and PyQt4 and is tested on Linux, though it \nshould work on other Unix platforms.  I eventually hope to support Windows \nhosts also.  For hg, bzr and git, plugins are supplied to improve integration \nwith the command line interface of the underlying system.\n\nMy DVCS of choice is Mercurial but I aim to properly support the other \nbackends and have this be an SCM-agnostic system.  I would appreciate expert \nfeedback about my implementation of all the backends including Mercurial, \nincluding advice if I'm doing things wrong and suggestions of further \nenhancements.\n\nPlease treat this as experimental software, released as a technical preview.  \nThe error handling is not very good and my understanding of the underlying \nSCMs is still somewhat incomplete.  I regard it as fairly safe and solid and \nit hasn't eaten my data during all my use and testing but please be cautious \nnonetheless.  I don't want to make it sound like it's going to destroy the \nworld ;-) but I'm very aware that most users of revision control have \ncritical data to manage.\n\nThe website is here: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/ and contains links \nto a downloadable tarball and the Mercurial repository.\n\nPlease feel free to send me e-mail with feedback or questions, no matter how \ninsignificant.  There's no user documentation, so don't hesitate to ask me \nquestions about how things work.  Private e-mail is fine if you prefer.\n\nCheers,\nMark\n-- \nPush Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/pmpu/)\n"},{"id":"65589","messageId":"7vzlv5pnrf.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","threadId":"11632","inReplyTo":"200801152131.33628.mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Push Me Pull You 0.2 - Tech Preview Release","fromName":"Junio C Hamano","fromEmail":"gitster@pobox.com","sentAt":"2008-01-16T19:35:16Z","receivedAt":"2008-01-16T19:35:16Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"gitster@pobox.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/54884?v=4"},"body":"Mark Williamson <mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk> writes:\n\n> I'd like to announce a new release of the Push Me Pull You (pmpu) tool; a GUI \n> for distributed revision control systems.\n>\n> PMPU supports plain hg, hg forest repositories, bzr, git and darcs as \n> underlying repositories.  It aims to provide a powerful graphical interface \n> to the underlying functionality, based around the workflow of incoming and \n> outgoing changesets.\n\nI haven't tried to look at this since your 0.1 announcement\n(which unfortunately was accepted with a thundering silence\nhere), but it would be interesting if it allowed to pull from Hg\ninto git (or other combinations).  Is that one of the features\n(or planned features)?\n"},{"id":"65628","messageId":"200801162315.35288.mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","threadId":"11632","inReplyTo":"7vzlv5pnrf.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Push Me Pull You 0.2 - Tech Preview Release","fromName":"Mark Williamson","fromEmail":"mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","sentAt":"2008-01-16T23:15:35Z","receivedAt":"2008-01-16T23:15:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","avatar":null},"body":"> > I'd like to announce a new release of the Push Me Pull You (pmpu) tool; a\n> > GUI for distributed revision control systems.\n> >\n> > PMPU supports plain hg, hg forest repositories, bzr, git and darcs as\n> > underlying repositories.  It aims to provide a powerful graphical\n> > interface to the underlying functionality, based around the workflow of\n> > incoming and outgoing changesets.\n>\n> I haven't tried to look at this since your 0.1 announcement\n> (which unfortunately was accepted with a thundering silence\n> here),\n\nHeheh, yeah, I was almost deafened by it :-)  But it's a new obscure tool, \nwritten using an foreign SCM so I'm not surprised if uptake is slow!\n\n> but it would be interesting if it allowed to pull from Hg \n> into git (or other combinations).  Is that one of the features\n> (or planned features)?\n\nThat's not one of the current features; I've been focusing on making basic \nfunctionality of each of the backend available from the GUI.  I'm trying to \ndo this in a standardised way so that the GUI always looks / acts the same \nregardless of underlying storage repository.\n\nBut yes, in the future I'd like to wrap the process of repository conversion / \ninteraction so that's it's easier for people on different SCM backends to \ncollaborate.  I've been pondering whether a commandline-based \"universal SCM \ntool\" that could transparently provide DVCS functionality on top of a variety \nof systems would be worth playing with at some point.\n\nCheers,\nMark\n\n-- \nPush Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/)\n"},{"id":"65632","messageId":"46a038f90801161537r4013f30ale0ae3ecb43609cf2@mail.gmail.com","threadId":"11632","inReplyTo":"200801162315.35288.mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Push Me Pull You 0.2 - Tech Preview Release","fromName":"Martin Langhoff","fromEmail":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","sentAt":"2008-01-16T23:37:22Z","receivedAt":"2008-01-16T23:37:22Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"martin.langhoff@gmail.com","avatar":"https://gravatar.com/avatar/1e3f311b6c4c15836501901ca58f8c0b0667246488084ba524d8bc9867e22fd9?d=mp&s=160"},"body":"On Jan 17, 2008 12:15 PM, Mark Williamson <mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:\n> Heheh, yeah, I was almost deafened by it :-)  But it's a new obscure tool,\n> written using an foreign SCM so I'm not surprised if uptake is slow!\n\nI don't mind at all that it is hosted with Hg ;-) I just looked at the\nscreenshots and description, and my feedback, as potential user, is\nthat it isn't clear what I would use it for.\n\n - What's the usage scenario for a cli-oriented power user? I do use\nhg on other projects, but I'm happy to use its commandline tools.\n\n - For a GUI user, how does it compare with using git gui when using\ngit, and the equivalente gui when using hg?\n\ncheers,\n\n\nmartin\n"},{"id":"65668","messageId":"200801170156.55007.mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","threadId":"11632","inReplyTo":"46a038f90801161537r4013f30ale0ae3ecb43609cf2@mail.gmail.com","subject":"Re: [ANNOUNCE] Push Me Pull You 0.2 - Tech Preview Release","fromName":"Mark Williamson","fromEmail":"mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","sentAt":"2008-01-17T01:56:54Z","receivedAt":"2008-01-17T01:56:54Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk","avatar":null},"body":"> > Heheh, yeah, I was almost deafened by it :-)  But it's a new obscure\n> > tool, written using an foreign SCM so I'm not surprised if uptake is\n> > slow!\n>\n> I don't mind at all that it is hosted with Hg ;-) \n\nIncidentally, I didn't mean to imply that that was the only reason nobody \nresponded.  But it's always a pain to think you have to get another SCM \ninstalled to get the latest source.  I put tarballs up for releases and \noccasional snapshots but I should probably enabled tarball download from the \nweb interface...\n\n> > I just looked at the  \n> screenshots and description, and my feedback, as potential user, is\n> that it isn't clear what I would use it for.\n\nWell, that's fair enough :-)\n\n>  - What's the usage scenario for a cli-oriented power user? I do use\n> hg on other projects, but I'm happy to use its commandline tools.\n\nAs you rightly point out, there's not anything you can do with pmpu that you \ncouldn't have managed on the CLI, the basic functionality is the same.  So \nnothing that compelling (yet).\n\nI find the GUI is sometimes quicker to use, e.g. creating and e-mailing \nbundles.  I find that keeping a pmpu window open somewhere gives me handy \nfeedback on what incoming / outgoing changes need dealing with.  The new \nannotate view provides live filtering, flexible viewing of metadata for each \nline in the file, etc.  That's going to be handy too, although it needs more \nwork.\n\nBut again, you *can* do all that stuff on the commandline and for some people \nthat's probably best.\n\nYou will notice, however, that I have included a CLI in the GUI.  Right now \nit's not that useful because it doesn't let you have any output ;-)  What I'd \nlike to do is to integrate this more with the rest of the GUI in the style of \nthe Hotwire shell (http://code.google.com/p/hotwire-shell/), e.g. intelligent \ncompletion, higher level interface to what you're trying to do, etc.  The \npower of the CLI interface plus the power of a flexible GUI to organise your \nthoughts.\n\n>  - For a GUI user, how does it compare with using git gui when using\n> git, and the equivalente gui when using hg?\n\nThe main advantage relative to those tools is probably that it supports a \nrange of SCM backends and gives them a rather uniform user interface.  I'd \nsay it's also a fairly simple interface to get started with, although I'm \nhardly a usability guru.  It's currently more limited than, say, git-gui \nbecause I've not yet added all the features I want.\n\nMy intention is to provide an alternative style of GUI to the existing tools, \nwhich may suit some people better.  Right now the main UI difference is the \nfocus primarily on incoming / ougoing changeset flow.  I've got other ideas \nI'll be trying out in due course ;-)\n\nGiven the similarities of all the modern DVCS systems I think a sensible \napproach is to have a range of polished GUI tools, which can use a range of \nDVCS backends.  The trend towards this is already starting and I guess I'd \nlike pmpu to one day be one of these ;-)\n\nCheers,\nMark\n\n-- \nPush Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/)\n"}]}