{"thread":{"id":"11040","subject":"Re: git guidance","startedAt":"2007-11-28T12:49:02Z","lastAt":"2007-11-29T12:57:18Z","messageCount":9,"participants":["Al Boldi","Rogan Dawes","Johannes Schindelin","Jakub Narebski","Kyle Moffett"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"61173","messageId":"200711281549.02663.a1426z@gawab.com","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"20071127235237.GF15227@1wt.eu","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Al Boldi","fromEmail":"a1426z@gawab.com","sentAt":"2007-11-28T12:49:02Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-28T12:49:02Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"a1426z@gawab.com","avatar":null},"body":"Willy Tarreau wrote:\n> It should not turn into an endless thread led by people who want to\n> redefine GIT's roadmap, but experience sharing helps a lot with GIT.\n\nWell, now that you mentioned it, if there is one thing I dislike, it's for \nversion control to start mutilating your sources. Version Control should be \ncompletely transparent. GIT isn't.\n\n\nThanks!\n\n--\nAl\n"},{"id":"61197","messageId":"474D70DD.4020601@dawes.za.net","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"200711281549.02663.a1426z@gawab.com","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Rogan Dawes","fromEmail":"lists@dawes.za.net","sentAt":"2007-11-28T13:45:01Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-28T13:45:01Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"lists@dawes.za.net","avatar":null},"body":"Al Boldi wrote:\n> Willy Tarreau wrote:\n>> It should not turn into an endless thread led by people who want to\n>> redefine GIT's roadmap, but experience sharing helps a lot with GIT.\n> \n> Well, now that you mentioned it, if there is one thing I dislike, it's for \n> version control to start mutilating your sources. Version Control should be \n> completely transparent. GIT isn't.\n> \n> Thanks!\n> \n> --\n> Al\n> \n\nCare to explain? Git is quite happy handling arbitrary binary content, \nso I find it difficult to believe that it is changing your source code \nin strange ways.\n\nRogan\n"},{"id":"61218","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0711281545170.27959@racer.site","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"474D70DD.4020601@dawes.za.net","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-11-28T15:46:35Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-28T15:46:35Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Rogan Dawes wrote:\n\n> Al Boldi wrote:\n>\n> > Willy Tarreau wrote:\n> >\n> > > It should not turn into an endless thread led by people who want to \n> > > redefine GIT's roadmap, but experience sharing helps a lot with GIT.\n> > \n> > Well, now that you mentioned it, if there is one thing I dislike, it's \n> > for version control to start mutilating your sources. Version Control \n> > should be completely transparent. GIT isn't.\n> \n> Care to explain? Git is quite happy handling arbitrary binary content, \n> so I find it difficult to believe that it is changing your source code \n> in strange ways.\n\nIt is nice of you to ask him to explain: Unless this handwaving claim is \nsubstantiated, it is quite hard to argue with.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"61255","messageId":"200711282014.27299.a1426z@gawab.com","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0711281545170.27959@racer.site","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Al Boldi","fromEmail":"a1426z@gawab.com","sentAt":"2007-11-28T17:14:27Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-28T17:14:27Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"a1426z@gawab.com","avatar":null},"body":"Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> Hi,\n\nHi!\n\ngit@vger sometimes bounces, so let's leave lkml as backup.\n\n> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Rogan Dawes wrote:\n> > Al Boldi wrote:\n> > > Willy Tarreau wrote:\n> > > > It should not turn into an endless thread led by people who want to\n> > > > redefine GIT's roadmap, but experience sharing helps a lot with GIT.\n> > >\n> > > Well, now that you mentioned it, if there is one thing I dislike, it's\n> > > for version control to start mutilating your sources. Version Control\n> > > should be completely transparent. GIT isn't.\n> >\n> > Care to explain? Git is quite happy handling arbitrary binary content,\n> > so I find it difficult to believe that it is changing your source code\n> > in strange ways.\n>\n> It is nice of you to ask him to explain: Unless this handwaving claim is\n> substantiated, it is quite hard to argue with.\n\nSure, the problem with GIT is that it stores the sources inside a backend \ncontainer that is only accessible via GIT; iow, you can't retrieve your \nsources directly / transparently.\n\nOne way to achieve transparency could be to allow mounting GIT on a dir-mount \npoint. And just use that dir normally, while GIT manages all the rest in \nthe background.\n\n\nThanks!\n\n--\nAl\n"},{"id":"61258","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0711281811500.27959@racer.site","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"200711282014.27299.a1426z@gawab.com","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-11-28T18:14:59Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-28T18:14:59Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Al Boldi wrote:\n\n> git@vger sometimes bounces, so let's leave lkml as backup.\n\nFair enough.\n\n> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Rogan Dawes wrote:\n> > > Al Boldi wrote:\n> > > > Willy Tarreau wrote:\n> > > > > It should not turn into an endless thread led by people who want \n> > > > > to redefine GIT's roadmap, but experience sharing helps a lot \n> > > > > with GIT.\n> > > >\n> > > > Well, now that you mentioned it, if there is one thing I dislike, \n> > > > it's for version control to start mutilating your sources. \n> > > > Version Control should be completely transparent. GIT isn't.\n> > >\n> > > Care to explain? Git is quite happy handling arbitrary binary \n> > > content, so I find it difficult to believe that it is changing your \n> > > source code in strange ways.\n> >\n> > It is nice of you to ask him to explain: Unless this handwaving claim \n> > is substantiated, it is quite hard to argue with.\n> \n> Sure, the problem with GIT is that it stores the sources inside a \n> backend container that is only accessible via GIT; iow, you can't \n> retrieve your sources directly / transparently.\n\nThat is a very funny way to define a \"transparent SCM\". Are you \ncomplaining about SQL servers being \"not transparent\"?\n\nBy that definition, no SCM, not even CVS, is transparent. Nothing short \nof unpacked directories of all versions (wasting a lot of disk space) \nwould.\n\nIOW the issue you raised is a non-issue.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"61261","messageId":"200711282130.12864.a1426z@gawab.com","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0711281811500.27959@racer.site","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Al Boldi","fromEmail":"a1426z@gawab.com","sentAt":"2007-11-28T18:30:12Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-28T18:30:12Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"a1426z@gawab.com","avatar":null},"body":"Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> By that definition, no SCM, not even CVS, is transparent. Nothing short\n> of unpacked directories of all versions (wasting a lot of disk space)\n> would.\n\nWho said anything about unpacking?\n\nI'm talking about GIT transparently serving a Virtual Version Control dir to \nbe mounted on the client.\n\n\nThanks!\n\n--\nAl\n"},{"id":"61263","messageId":"fikcns$mte$1@ger.gmane.org","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"200711282130.12864.a1426z@gawab.com","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Jakub Narebski","fromEmail":"jnareb@gmail.com","sentAt":"2007-11-28T18:41:01Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-28T18:41:01Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"jnareb@gmail.com","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/2706?v=4"},"body":"Al Boldi wrote:\n> Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n\n>> By that definition, no SCM, not even CVS, is transparent. Nothing short\n>> of unpacked directories of all versions (wasting a lot of disk space)\n>> would.\n> \n> Who said anything about unpacking?\n> \n> I'm talking about GIT transparently serving a Virtual Version Control dir to \n> be mounted on the client.\n\nAre you talking about something like (in alpha IIRC) gitfs?\n\n http://www.sfgoth.com/~mitch/linux/gitfs/\n\n\nBesides, you can always use \"git show :\". For example\ngitweb (and I think other web interfaces) can show any version of a file\nor a directory, accessing only repository.\n\n-- \nJakub Narebski\nWarsaw, Poland\nShadeHawk on #git\n"},{"id":"61366","messageId":"200711290827.04950.a1426z@gawab.com","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"200711282130.12864.a1426z@gawab.com","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Al Boldi","fromEmail":"a1426z@gawab.com","sentAt":"2007-11-29T05:27:04Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-29T05:27:04Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"a1426z@gawab.com","avatar":null},"body":"Jakub Narebski wrote:\n> Al Boldi wrote:\n> > Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> >> By that definition, no SCM, not even CVS, is transparent. Nothing\n> >> short of unpacked directories of all versions (wasting a lot of disk\n> >> space) would.\n> >\n> > Who said anything about unpacking?\n> >\n> > I'm talking about GIT transparently serving a Virtual Version Control\n> > dir to be mounted on the client.\n>\n> Are you talking about something like (in alpha IIRC) gitfs?\n>\n> http://www.sfgoth.com/~mitch/linux/gitfs/\n\nThis looks like a good start.\n\n> Besides, you can always use \"git show :\". For example\n> gitweb (and I think other web interfaces) can show any version of a file\n> or a directory, accessing only repository.\n\nSure, browsing is the easy part, but Version Control starts when things \nbecome writable.\n\n\nThanks for the link!\n\n--\nAl\n"},{"id":"61393","messageId":"6DFD2A04-1D18-4B04-98BA-AE14F6BDB4C7@mac.com","threadId":"11040","inReplyTo":"200711290827.04950.a1426z@gawab.com","subject":"Re: git guidance","fromName":"Kyle Moffett","fromEmail":"mrmacman_g4@mac.com","sentAt":"2007-11-29T12:57:18Z","receivedAt":"2007-11-29T12:57:18Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"mrmacman_g4@mac.com","avatar":null},"body":"On Nov 29, 2007, at 00:27:04, Al Boldi wrote:\n> Jakub Narebski wrote:\n>> Besides, you can always use \"git show :\". For \n>> example gitweb (and I think other web interfaces) can show any \n>> version of a file or a directory, accessing only repository.\n>\n> Sure, browsing is the easy part, but Version Control starts when \n> things become writable.\n\nBut... git history is very inherently completely immutable once \ncreated... that's the only way you can index everything with a simple \nSHA-1. If you want to write to the \"git filesystem\" by adding new \ncommits then you need to use the appropriate commands, same as every \nother VCS on the planet.\n\nCheers,\nKyle Moffett\n"}]}