{"thread":{"id":"10524","subject":"Missing MIME-headers in git-email-tool ..","startedAt":"2007-10-30T09:53:38Z","lastAt":"2007-10-30T14:09:29Z","messageCount":6,"participants":["Matti Aarnio","Johannes Schindelin","Jeff King"],"isPatch":false,"patchVersion":null,"patchTotal":null},"messages":[{"id":"57553","messageId":"20071030095338.GZ6372@mea-ext.zmailer.org","threadId":"10524","inReplyTo":null,"subject":"Missing MIME-headers in git-email-tool ..","fromName":"Matti Aarnio","fromEmail":"matti.aarnio@zmailer.org","sentAt":"2007-10-30T09:53:38Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-30T09:53:38Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"matti.aarnio@zmailer.org","avatar":null},"body":"\nThe git-send-email does send posts without any sort of MIME labeling:\n\n From: / To: removed\n\n Subject: [PATCH 0/2] Blackfin I2C/TWI driver updates\n Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:33:15 +0800\n Message-Id: <1193736797-9005-1-git-send-email-bryan.wu@analog.com>\n X-Mailer: git-send-email 1.5.3.4\n Precedence: bulk\n\n\nwhich per MIME rules means that the message in question is equivalent\nto one with header labels:\n\n MIME-Version: 1.0\n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII\n Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\nWhat would be a problem ? Some of us have names that are encoded\nin 8-bit form, and some receiving systems get all mighty upset when\nthey receive unlabelled email carry 8-bit encoded texts.\n(Thanks to chinese and russian spammers..)\n\n\nNow if the git-send-email would add following three lines in all\noutgoing email headers, things would be 99% correct for a long time..\n\n MIME-Version: 1.0\n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15\n Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT\n\nThe potential incorrectness is with UTF-8 encoded names.\nEven then it probably is merely nuisance and not real delivery\npreventing detail.\n\n /Matti Aarnio -- one of \n"},{"id":"57559","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0710301028360.4362@racer.site","threadId":"10524","inReplyTo":"20071030095338.GZ6372@mea-ext.zmailer.org","subject":"Re: Missing MIME-headers in git-email-tool ..","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-10-30T10:31:41Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-30T10:31:41Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\nOn Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Matti Aarnio wrote:\n\n> The git-send-email does send posts without any sort of MIME labeling:\n> \n> From: / To: removed\n> \n> Subject: [PATCH 0/2] Blackfin I2C/TWI driver updates\n> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:33:15 +0800\n> Message-Id: <1193736797-9005-1-git-send-email-bryan.wu@analog.com>\n> X-Mailer: git-send-email 1.5.3.4\n> Precedence: bulk\n> \n> \n> which per MIME rules means that the message in question is equivalent\n> to one with header labels:\n> \n> MIME-Version: 1.0\n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII\n> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\nAFAICT MIME headers are only added when needed. (But that might only \napply to format-patch; however, if you signed off with your name, all \nshould be well.)\n\n> Now if the git-send-email would add following three lines in all\n> outgoing email headers, things would be 99% correct for a long time..\n> \n> MIME-Version: 1.0\n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15\n> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT\n\nNo.\n\nNot at all.\n\nISO-8859-15 is just as wrong as ASCII. You just forget about the majority \nof the population on this earth. That is just as arrogant and snobbish as \nthe people who thought that ASCII would be good enough for everyone.\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"57567","messageId":"20071030112750.GA6372@mea-ext.zmailer.org","threadId":"10524","inReplyTo":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0710301028360.4362@racer.site","subject":"Re: Missing MIME-headers in git-email-tool ..","fromName":"Matti Aarnio","fromEmail":"matti.aarnio@zmailer.org","sentAt":"2007-10-30T11:27:50Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-30T11:27:50Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"matti.aarnio@zmailer.org","avatar":null},"body":"On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 10:31:41AM +0000, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> Hi,\n> \n> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Matti Aarnio wrote:\n> \n> > The git-send-email does send posts without any sort of MIME labeling:\n> > \n> > From: / To: removed\n> > \n> > Subject: [PATCH 0/2] Blackfin I2C/TWI driver updates\n> > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:33:15 +0800\n> > Message-Id: <1193736797-9005-1-git-send-email-bryan.wu@analog.com>\n> > X-Mailer: git-send-email 1.5.3.4\n> > Precedence: bulk\n> > \n> > \n> > which per MIME rules means that the message in question is equivalent\n> > to one with header labels:\n> > \n> > MIME-Version: 1.0\n> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII\n> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n> \n> AFAICT MIME headers are only added when needed. (But that might only \n> apply to format-patch; however, if you signed off with your name, all \n> should be well.)\n\nI wish that were true.. We (VGER's Postmasters that is) would not see\nso much rejections from all over the places... Would it motivate you\nif we sent all GIT caused ones to you ?\n\n\nThe MIME headers should always be added. The charset= -value can be\ndebated about. If the headers are not there, and VGER is sending email\nto system which does not report capability of receiving 8BITMIME, then\nthe message will be converted to QUOTED-PRINTABLE (and headers be added)\n\nWorst that can happen when the message is mis-labelled as US-ASCII and\nstill contains 8-bit chars is not outright rejection, but stripping the\n8th-bit off..\n\n\n> > Now if the git-send-email would add following three lines in all\n> > outgoing email headers, things would be 99% correct for a long time..\n> > \n> > MIME-Version: 1.0\n> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15\n> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT\n> \n> No.\n> \n> Not at all.\n> \n> ISO-8859-15 is just as wrong as ASCII. You just forget about the majority \n> of the population on this earth. That is just as arrogant and snobbish as \n> the people who thought that ASCII would be good enough for everyone.\n\nI wish the world was perfect and everybody would use single unified charset..\nwhich obviously is not true. However as the kernel sources DO NOT SPECIFY\nCOMMENT CHARSET, using ISO-8859-15 is LESS WRONG than picking UTF-8.\n\nThe reasoning here is that getting the email thru is more important than\nabsolutely correct labels.\n\nIf you wish, you may scan the message content at first to determine if it does\nindeed include characters outside the US-ASCII range. You may even determine\nif the charset in question is likely UTF-8 instead of one of the Latins.\n\nWhatever you do, do put the MIME labels in place.\n\n> Ciao,\n> Dscho\n\n\n/Matti Aarnio -- one of \n"},{"id":"57568","messageId":"Pine.LNX.4.64.0710301157290.4362@racer.site","threadId":"10524","inReplyTo":"20071030112750.GA6372@mea-ext.zmailer.org","subject":"Re: Missing MIME-headers in git-email-tool ..","fromName":"Johannes Schindelin","fromEmail":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","sentAt":"2007-10-30T12:07:14Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-30T12:07:14Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"johannes.schindelin@gmx.de","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/127790?v=4"},"body":"Hi,\n\n[please Cc: me]\n\nOn Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Matti Aarnio wrote:\n\n> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 10:31:41AM +0000, Johannes Schindelin wrote:\n> \n> > On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Matti Aarnio wrote:\n> > \n> > > The git-send-email does send posts without any sort of MIME labeling:\n> > > \n> > > From: / To: removed\n> > > \n> > > Subject: [PATCH 0/2] Blackfin I2C/TWI driver updates\n> > > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:33:15 +0800\n> > > Message-Id: <1193736797-9005-1-git-send-email-bryan.wu@analog.com>\n> > > X-Mailer: git-send-email 1.5.3.4\n> > > Precedence: bulk\n> > > \n> > > \n> > > which per MIME rules means that the message in question is equivalent\n> > > to one with header labels:\n> > > \n> > > MIME-Version: 1.0\n> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII\n> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n> > \n> > AFAICT MIME headers are only added when needed. (But that might only \n> > apply to format-patch; however, if you signed off with your name, all \n> > should be well.)\n> \n> I wish that were true.. We (VGER's Postmasters that is) would not see\n> so much rejections from all over the places... Would it motivate you\n> if we sent all GIT caused ones to you ?\n\nHeh.\n\nI'm not a send-mail user myself, so I did not ever have any reason to dive \ninto its source code. Sorry.\n\nI understand your pain. But as we assume UTF-8 in git if no other \nencoding is selected, I think it makes more sense to default to UTF-8.\n\nThat said, I actually like the behaviour which I think is intended, to not \nspecify anything when the message can be interpreted as US-ASCII.\n\nBTW I tried to find anything in the message you referenced which would \nmake it non-ASCII, but I did not find anything. But then, I am not \nsubscribed to the lkml, and can only get stripped down versions of the \nmails via marc or kerneltrap.\n\nAny send-email gurus want to join into this discussion?\n\nCiao,\nDscho\n"},{"id":"57577","messageId":"20071030140630.GC21342@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"10524","inReplyTo":"20071030095338.GZ6372@mea-ext.zmailer.org","subject":"Re: Missing MIME-headers in git-email-tool ..","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2007-10-30T14:06:30Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-30T14:06:30Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 11:53:38AM +0200, Matti Aarnio wrote:\n\n> The git-send-email does send posts without any sort of MIME labeling:\n> \n> From: / To: removed\n> \n> Subject: [PATCH 0/2] Blackfin I2C/TWI driver updates\n> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:33:15 +0800\n> Message-Id: <1193736797-9005-1-git-send-email-bryan.wu@analog.com>\n> X-Mailer: git-send-email 1.5.3.4\n> Precedence: bulk\n> \n> \n> which per MIME rules means that the message in question is equivalent\n> to one with header labels:\n> \n> MIME-Version: 1.0\n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII\n> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\nAs Johannes explained, this happens only when there are no >7bit\ncharacters in the email, so that interpretation is correct. Though I am\nnot opposed to sending those headers all the time, for clarity's sake.\n\n> What would be a problem ? Some of us have names that are encoded\n> in 8-bit form, and some receiving systems get all mighty upset when\n> they receive unlabelled email carry 8-bit encoded texts.\n> (Thanks to chinese and russian spammers..)\n\nThen git-send-email should be generating the MIME headers if there are\n8-bit characters. Can you produce a test case where the most recent\nversion of git-send-email it does not?\n\n> Now if the git-send-email would add following three lines in all\n> outgoing email headers, things would be 99% correct for a long time..\n> \n> MIME-Version: 1.0\n> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15\n> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT\n\nNo, this is just wrong. If git-send-email isn't adding headers when it\nshould to 8-bit output, then it's a bug. But papering over it with a\nrandomly chosen, possibly incorrect charset is not the right answer.\n\n-Peff\n"},{"id":"57578","messageId":"20071030140929.GA22101@coredump.intra.peff.net","threadId":"10524","inReplyTo":"20071030140630.GC21342@coredump.intra.peff.net","subject":"Re: Missing MIME-headers in git-email-tool ..","fromName":"Jeff King","fromEmail":"peff@peff.net","sentAt":"2007-10-30T14:09:29Z","receivedAt":"2007-10-30T14:09:29Z","isPatch":false,"sender":{"key":"peff@peff.net","avatar":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/45925?v=4"},"body":"On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 10:06:30AM -0400, Jeff King wrote:\n\n> > What would be a problem ? Some of us have names that are encoded\n> > in 8-bit form, and some receiving systems get all mighty upset when\n> > they receive unlabelled email carry 8-bit encoded texts.\n> > (Thanks to chinese and russian spammers..)\n> \n> Then git-send-email should be generating the MIME headers if there are\n> 8-bit characters. Can you produce a test case where the most recent\n> version of git-send-email it does not?\n\nActually, btw, the code in question is from git-format-patch (it's just\nthat git-send-email doesn't add _any_ mime headers, as it assumes\ngit-format-patch either did it already, or none are needed).\n\n-Peff\n"}]}